Leaderboard

The Bible doesn't say that the Canaanites were annihilated, though. Crowing that surviving Canaanite DNA disproves something that the Bible doesn't actually say, merely shows poor reading comprehension.

Out of context, expected. There was no threat. A simple statement about not being able to eat again from the Tree of Life. Without it, they would not keep on living, hence its removal. Does anyone see a threat in John 3:16 or the many other words from Christ about requirements for salvation? Christ came to take away the threats insinuated by Satan and gave people the true reason for following Him. God wants no one to serve him out of fear as implied by the use of the above texts with out context.

Well, thats a good thing. Nothing worse than running around scared of the God we say we love. Been there, done that.

Rachel introduces an important issue in her post which I have quoted below: In many ways, I believe that the heavenly beings and those that populate the Universe in effect have been witness to a trial in which God has, so to speak, been on trial. The charge against God: 1) God is unjust. 2) If given freedom of choice, God's created beings would not chose to spend eternity with God. 3) As sinners, God can not fairly bring humanity back into an eternal life and at the same time refuse eternal life to those heavenly beings who rebelled in heaven in ages past. With the death of Christ on the cross, I believe that all of the heavenly beings and those who populate the Universe now agree that sinful humanity, along with those previously expelled form heaven, are justly separated from God and separated from eternal life. As of the cross, one issue remained to be determined: Is it true that sin has been removed from the lives of a group of sinful human beings in a manner that it can be assured that none of these, if restored to eternal life, will ever rebel again? In my thinking, this is what is determined in the so-called Investigative Judgement. It is not that each sinful person is determined to be perfect. Rather, it is that it is determined that the root nature of the rebellion had been removed from each of these saved persons and they may justly be returned to an eternal life with God and the other unfallen beings (persons) of the Universe. It is God, in all fullness that is on trial in the so-called Investigative Judgment, not individuals humans. Each saved person today can rest in the assurance that at the Cross salvation was provided and one is saved. NOTE: While I am stating it slightly differently from Rachel, there is substantial agreement between she and I. Any disagreement between us is minor.

Rachel (8th Day Priest) holds to some theological views that are outside of mainline Adventism. She is well grounded in her views and well able to defend them against those who differ with her. Club Adventist, as it was once called does not generally exclude people simply because they differ with main-line SDA belief. People who are excluded from participation here are generally excluded based upon how they relate to others and/or how they post. Rachel has conducted herself well within the guidelines that Club Adventist has. I do not expect her to change the way that she posts and/or relates to people her. And, I do not expect her to be excluded from our fellowship. From my perspective, while I do disagree with Rachel, on some major points, I welcome her here.

" It never had to do with skin color, it had to do with sin." stinsonmarri I like what you said here... this is truth... anyone can be a son or daughter of Abraham...it is about being a human being and who you choose to worship... it is really all about choice whom do you choose to worship? the world and Satan or the Living Loving God of the bible, Jehovah and His Son Jesus this is the root of the matter. it is the power of Satan that likes to stir things up among us ... he likes to get people looking at differences and causing strife and confusion

I'll comment on two things: 1) personally, I find none of the three issues Steve brings up (2520 movement, Jewish feasts, anti-trinity movement) is particularly compelling as "dangerous" to one's salvation... Satan is going to be working on more subtle ways to bring people to *his* side. Yes, those "movements" are ways to take the focus off of spreading the Third Angel's Message, but no more so than the controversy over women's ordination, gay issues in the church, or gossipy church members. 2) did anyone else feel like Steve Wohlberg was speaking from the fires of hell, with that creepy background? I dislike the use of theatrics to evoke panicky and/or emotional responses to videos such as the one listed in the OP.

This is a refreshing new web page design that reflects professional design by someone who knew what they were doing from the aspect of visual design. Did you have to take out a bank loan, or does this reflect your work with The Messenger?

It's true that the current situation in the Christian churches, universities, and seminaries is quite similar to the conditions among the Jews who did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. However, one premise of this story is misleading -- the Jews as a whole did not reject Jesus -- it was only the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem who rejected Jesus. To say that "the Jews rejected Jesus" would be similar to saying that "the Americans rejected the Bible" if the US Congress were to reject the Bible by a small majority. The politicians are not the people, and the majority of the people probably believe differently than the members of Congress. (However, most Americans do reject the Bible in a different way because they have been taught that portions of the Old Testament have become obsolete and they have been taught that popular misinterpretations of the New Testament overthrow the Old Testament religion that Jesus created, lived, and endorsed.) In the case of the Jews though, the assertion "that the Jews rejected Jesus" is even less true, because only a small minority of the Jews and Israelites lived in Jerusalem and Judea at the time of Jesus. Most of the Jews and Israelites were still scattered in the diaspora after the exiles, had little or no contact with Jerusalem, and never had an opportunity to accept or reject Jesus because they never heard of him. Of those that did meet Jesus or his followers, the New Testament tells us that many tens of thousands believed in Jesus as the Messiah (Acts 21:20). There are several other passages in the New Testament that show the acceptance of Jesus among the Jews. The false accusation that "the Jews rejected Jesus" also causes modern Jews to resist accepting Jesus for at least a couple reasons. First, when a Jew hears that "the Jews rejected Jesus," the Jew feels accused by Christians. Whether the accusation is true or not, it hampers evangelism because it initially causes Jews to distance themselves from Christians. Who wants to listen to someone who is accusing you and your people-group of something bad? Nobody. Also, when a person who identifies as a Jew hears that "the Jews rejected Jesus," they think, "I'm a Jew, therefore I will stand as a Jew by rejecting Jesus too." It becomes a matter of Jewish patriotism and loyalty to stand with the Jews on this issue. If all Christians would instead testify truthfully about the Jews and say, as the New Testament says, "You see, brother, how many ten thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and they are all zealous adherents of the law," (Acts 21:20 LEB) it would make evangelism among the Jews more successful.

All depends on what we mean when we say the 'church'. For me it means those that follow Christ, wherever they are on the journey, and not a .org.

Great point Joe. Just wondering: In what sense was Barabbas released by the hand of a "fit man" into the "uninhabited place". Was Pilate really a "fit man"? Would Barabbas have fled from human habitation? Just wondering if this "anti-TYPE" (of the scapegoat) was only a partial fulfillment, not THE fulfillment. I believe that Satan will be THE scapegoat/azazel goat who will be released into the uninhabited place - the wilderness - the bottomless pit (the without form and void), by Christ (the fit man) at the glorious return for both rescue (of the redeemed) and judgment (of the rebellious).

sometimes I wonder how many of these incidents are done by true racists, and how many are done by people whose motive is just to "stir the pot" and cause uproar just for the heck of it....

'alt-right' has come to be shorthand for white supremacy - which is not 100% accurate, but that's what I was talking about. Pretty sure there are not black people in the white supremacist groups.

....when I select alt-R on my computer, I get the "registered trademark" symbol: ® .... "alt" means "old" in German.. "Old Right"... "Old-Rite".... there is a Russian Orthodox "Old-Rite" church, and their current bishop discharges his duties from the town of Braila in the Ukraine. Braila is on the Danube River. Now, the Danube Waltz was written by Johann Strauss, who was buried in Vienna, Austria. There is an Adventist school in Austria, Seminar Schloss Bogenhofen, near Braunau. Braunau is where Adolf Hitler was born. Hitler rose to power in 1933. Carol Burnett and Tim Conway were both born in 1933, and are comedians. One of the funniest comedians ever was Great Britain's Benny Hill. Benny Hill's theme song makes a California car chase take on a comedic tone. (see below) So who are the alt-Right? Darned if I know. Looks like it could refer to just about anyone, given the proper build-up....

The alt-right want to kill black people. The 'alt-left' want universal health care. False equivalence is false.

A very interesting publication, Stan! I love reading our Adventist news publications -- it's just like being a part of a huge fraternity, all around the world. There's usually always somebody mentioned who is either your friend, or a friend-of-a-friend. Thanks for this.

Statistics are simply averages which may not apply to a specific situation. There was less than two (2) years difference between my age and that of my first wife. There is more than 10 years difference between my age and that of my present wife. We have been married for more than 30 years and neither of us is planning a divorce. However, I do agree that from the social standpoint, there are likely to be differences, when there is a large age difference, that may adversely affect a marriage. But, those differences do not have to control.

No, their clothing is not cheap. For more about it see: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/business/6922101-181/sonoma-founders-of-chasing-grace?artslide=0 JoMo: As for the unhappy model, that is the so-called hip, sultry, sexy look. You would know that if you spent more time looking at the models of the world.

In an attempt to tone down my previous critique of the video (which was apparently deleted), let me just say that it is a fine example of attempted brain-washing of church members to discourage them from independent study by controlling their thoughts and activities. While the Sabbath is very important to the lives of SDA's, I doubt if it will be the worldwide catalyst for the end of time. I think it will be much broader than that - like "Who do you worship? To whom will you give your unconditional love and loyalty - the gods of this world and the underworld; or the God of Heaven? Another issue I had was his extensive use of EGW in comparison to scripture. That always makes me suspicious of a presenter's very one-sided thesis. I

Joe, I have mixed feelings about your response. I had been thinking of contacting the woman and telling her that I did not need the money and she should send it to you. But, after that response from you, I think that I will tell her to only offer you 1/2 of the amount and to give the rest to someone else.

I like this new design/theme!! Its great!

Took some research. Check out the options for the like button now

We need to remember: Is your faith in the same proportion to that of this verse? Are we focused on the kingdom of God, or what is our focus? What kind of idea do people get of us when our message is not of the kingdom of God?

i remember the strange conversation i heard at church when a member distressfully said they sinned because they ate oriental top ramen and later they discovered it had natural shrimp flavor... with actual shrimp particles.... sigh

The Council of Jerusalem is summed up in Acts 15:28, 29. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. No mention of abstaining from unclean meats. Yet we know that the gentile world ate unclean animals. The history on this is that the founders of the Adventist church did not settle the matter. It did not appear in our fundamental beliefs until after the death of Ellen White. The whole thrust of not eating unclean meats is in regard to health. It is part of the health message. That is how it is framed in the baptismal vows and in our book Seventh-day Adventists believe. Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that eating unclean meats will make a person ceremonially unclean. Abstaining from unclean meat is part of our health message. Understanding that, if given the option to eat some beans with lard in them or eat a side order of french fries, which would be the healthier choice? The beans would be. The fat content in the beans would be far less and the carbohydrates would be far superior to what is in the french fries.

Your question is a great one! and between you and God more than you and the church. We all suffer the effects of Adam and Eve eating of the fruit of Good and Evil. They became knowledgeable in evil, and their descendants became even better at it. It is most sad when sorrow happens to children or other innocent parties. It makes us all weep. There is a promise: Isaiah 58:12 Your people shall rebuild the ancient ruins; the foundations from ages past you shall raise up; “Repairer of the breach,” they shall call you, “Restorer of ruined dwellings.” I think that it will get worse before it gets better. And then there will be no more. God will say, "Enough," and will restore those who have been tortured or broken. At the moment we have some brave humans who do God's work, but not enough.

I read a good book awhile back - "Healed without Scars". It was all about how we keep trying - in our own way - to heal our old wounds. We keep pulling the scab off. Everyone knows that pulling the scab off, will make it scar worse. Reading the book, I came to realize something that I was doing - in my friendships - that came from old wounds. Without realizing it, I was repeating an old scenario, trying to make it turn out different, unconsciously trying to heal a wound left from my childhood, which was messed up by an alcoholic father, and a bi-polar mother, and severe bullying at a "church school". The book explained that Christ is the ONLY HEALER. Only HE can heal those old wounds. No amount of trying on our part will bring healing. We cannot heal ourselves. I throw this in to the discussion, because I was a sincere believer for 25 years BEFORE I read that book. It still took several years, for me to consciously amend some negative interpersonal habits. It's just that the book opened my eyes to the source of those behaviors, which seemed beyond my control. Those of us who have suffered - from whatever cause - can serve to help others. The author of the book had been abused. I know this does not answer the question concerning why God ALLOWS the suffering. I personally have suffered from chronic migraines for 45 years. I was also born with Chiari I malformation. I've never had a C1 vertebra, and after decompression surgery the posterior process of C2 is also gone. My neck is somewhat unstable, and is now showing a lot of degenerative changes. (I'm turning 69 on Friday.) And yes - it is painful. So I think I can honestly say that I have suffered both physically and emotionally. [Though nothing like being burned over 50%. Wow!!] I can also say - without any doubt, that God exists. I have personally experienced many - couldn't be anything else but - miracles. The first of those miracles absolutely CHANGED me. When you KNOW - absolutely - that God exists, you do start to think in different terms. And as I began to ask HIM questions, of course - the question concerning all the PAIN came up rather quickly. The clearest thing I can tell you, is that the pain does have a purpose. The pain is like awful chemo, or painful surgery to kill cancer. Yes - it is very painful. But it is necessary for a good outcome. And Jesus knows that He can heal our hearts and minds, as well as give us new immortal spiritual bodies. [I'm speaking of pain in general, being necessary for the universe of God to experience.] When we are living in the earth made new, a hundred thousand years from now, let's say that I wonder why I have to follow a certain Law of God. I start wondering. I will immediately know why! Because I have FELT the pain that doing things without God, or in opposition to God, brings. I know what sin cost Jesus and the Father. The cross was only a revelation of the pain that God feels, as He experiences our pain. He feels our pain - with us. He would have to be infinite, to survive, absorbing all that pain.

In the time of Christ, there were many who claimed to be the Messiah. Often they came from nowhere (in the example of John the Baptist), raised up an army, fought with Rome, were defeated and died. You are correct as to Barabbas, in Hebrew, meaning Son of the Father. This leads many to believe that Barabbas was one of those false Messiahs. If so, the people were essentially being given a choice between the true Messiah and a false Messiah.

How do you know that they are leftists?? Did they say they were?? Just because people love those stupid labels, doesn't make them so-called leftists!!!!! How about those that kill doctors that do abortions?? Are they are rightists????? Not in my book!!!!! People are people period and they do things that are sinful, not because they are left or right. Everyone of us has a little of each of your so-called labels!!!!! If your in love with labels than according to your own meaning, which I'm getting from the way you post, the POTUS would be on the left and not on the right!!!!! According to the POTUS there were many good people on each side of the protesters!! How can that be?? Because according to Jesus, no one is good, but the Father!!!!! Besides how can a person that hates anyone be "good?" That goes for anyone on the so-called left or right!!!!!

I love labels! Have no clue who is included in or what it is...alt-right. Have a feeling that labels are designed just to confuse people and make it easy to point fingers!

This may not fit universally for all folks; but after being in the same faith for 40 years, SDA or not, I would look for a church that: 1. At least has a service on Sabbath for Sabbath-keepers, whether they proclaim the Sabbath or not (many non-denominational churches here do that). 2. Proclaims Jesus Christ and the Father as the only Lord, God, and Savior. 3. Waits in hopeful expectation for the literal 2nd Coming of our Lord Jesus. 4. Considers the Bible as the ONLY and FINAL authority on spiritual matters. Nothing wring with Commentaries as long as they can be backed up by scripture. (This can be sticky; as not all people interpret the Bible the same way - even here on Adventistan) 5. Welcomes and includes all people as they are - sinner or saint - and demonstrate it by their actions.

The start of our church service featured staff member Elizabeth Castle and the Personal Ministries Corner, discussing ancient wedding customs (we had communion today). I didn't get her references, but here are some of the items she presented: 1. Jesus gave His life as a bride price for His church (us). A bride would drink a cup of juice as an indication that she was accepting a particular man as her husband. Every time we drink the cup in the communion service we are showing our allegiance to Jesus. 2. A bridegroom would build a wedding chamber on to his father’s house and stay there with his bride for seven days. Ellen White was shown that we will be seven days ascending to heaven after the Second Coming, alone with Christ and our fellow believers at that time. 3. The communion service includes washing each other’s feet, getting closer to Christ

At my first meeting there were some 70 people who watched the film Hacksaw Ridge. About 15 to 20 stayed afterword to talk to me. All of their questions involved Doss and none of them about the SDA Church. So, I gave those people a 1-page document that I had prepared about Doss. NOTE: In working with people one should not approach them with an agenda. Rather one should respond to the questions that they ask. I have further modified the document about the SDA Church by adding contact points for 4 nearby SDA congregations. Later this month, I will again attend a showing of the film and we shall see how that one goes.

As a general statement, I have told people the following: 1) Ask the Holy Spirit to lead you. 2) Look for a church that is teaching what God wants taught today, keeping in mind the all are human in part and none are 100% perfect. As I respond to the question, which the above may not be a good response, I think I would add the following: 3) Look for a church that feeds you spiritually. Congregations have personality and no congregation can meet the needs of every person.

ahhh, the dangers of a poor guest popping up to comment. Being aware that this Forum holds multiple sub-rooms with different atmosphere is something to be learned.

Los Angeles County, CA Cook County, IL Harris County, TX Maricopa County, AZ San Diego County, CA Orange County, CA Miami-Dade County, FL Kings County, NY Dallas County, TX Queens County, NY Riverside County, CA San Bernardino County, CA King County, WA Clark County, NV Tarrant County, TX Santa Clara County, CA Broward County, FL Wayne County, MI Bexar County, TX New York County, NY Alameda County, CA Philadelphia County, PA Middlesex County, MA Suffolk County, NY Sacramento County, CA Bronx County, NY Palm Beach County, FL Nassau County, NY Hillsborough County, FL Cuyahoga County, OH Allegheny County, PA Oakland County, MI Orange County, FL Franklin County, OH Hennepin County, MN Fairfax County, VA Travis County, TX Contra Costa County, CA Salt Lake County, UT Montgomery County, MD St. Louis County, MO Pima County, AZ Fulton County, GA Honolulu County, HI Mecklenburg County, NC Westchester County, NY Milwaukee County, WI Wake County, NC Fresno County, CA Shelby County, TN Fairfield County, CT DuPage County, IL Pinellas County, FL Erie County, NY Marion County, IN Bergen County, NJ Hartford County, CT Prince George's County, MD Duval County, FL New Haven County, CT Kern County, CA Macomb County, MI Gwinnett County, GA Ventura County, CA Collin County, TX El Paso County, TX San Francisco County, CA Middlesex County, NJ Baltimore County, MD Pierce County, WA Montgomery County, PA Hidalgo County, TX Worcester County, MA Hamilton County, OH Essex County, NJ Multnomah County, OR Essex County, MA Jefferson County, KY Monroe County, NY Suffolk County, MA Oklahoma County, OK San Mateo County, CA Snohomish County, WA Cobb County, GA Denton County, TX DeKalb County, GA San Joaquin County, CA Lake County, IL Will County, IL Norfolk County, MA Jackson County, MO Bernalillo County, NM Jefferson County, AL Hudson County, NJ Davidson County, TN Lee County, FL El Paso County, CO Denver County, CO District of Columbia, DC Monmouth County, NJ Providence County, RI Fort Bend County, TX Bucks County, PA Baltimore city, MD Polk County, FL Kent County, MI Tulsa County, OK Arapahoe County, CO Ocean County, NJ Delaware County, PA Johnson County, KS Bristol County, MA Anne Arundel County, MD Washington County, OR Brevard County, FL New Castle County, DE Jefferson County, CO Union County, NJ Summit County, OH Utah County, UT Montgomery County, OH Douglas County, NE Lancaster County, PA Kane County, IL Stanislaus County, CA Ramsey County, MN Camden County, NJ Chester County, PA Sedgwick County, KS Dane County, WI Passaic County, NJ Guilford County, NC Plymouth County, MA Morris County, NJ Volusia County, FL Lake County, IN Sonoma County, CA Montgomery County, TX Spokane County, WA Richmond County, NY Pasco County, FL Greenville County, SC Onondaga County, NY Hampden County, MA Adams County, CO Williamson County, TX http://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-the-united-states-lives-in-these-counties-2013-9

Very interesting and sure to be controversial...as it is in the Spectrum Mag! But, if one were to be honest, I would believe many, many SDA's have had these conversations, even if only with their self.

another of my favorite cartoon programs as a kid ... I had seen a TV interview with June Foray a number of years ago — a delightful lady!

I was reading a comparison between the Yom Kippur sacrifice where two identical goats are chosen; and by lots one would be chosen as the sacrifice; and one would be chosen as the scapegoat to be "set free", driven out on the camp into the wilderness. The goats' anti-type were found in Jesus and Barabbas - where one was chosen as the sacrificial goat and one would be set free. Jesus was the Son of the Father. If we break up Barabbas into its components, we get Bar- Abba, which in Hebrew means "Son of the Father". Coincidence or somehow significant?

Maybe I'm inferring incorrectly from this post; but IMHO there is a difference between "discrimination" and "resisting evil". If I refuse to allow a minority ethnic group or religious group to use a bathroom, elevator, or drinking fountain in my establishment, that's discrimination. If I refuse to allow my preteen daughter to shower or otherwise get naked in front of a boy who thinks he's a girl, that's my (and hopefully her) conscience speaking. If I support all minorities being forced to have sterility operations, that's discrimination. If I have a problem having my tax dollars pay for a "convenience" abortion for someone who can't otherwise afford it, that's my conscience. Just because someone refuses to do something for someone else, that doesn't make them a bigot.

The following is a website that attempts to inform us of the various groups that now exist separate from the SDA denomination: http://whoareadventists.com/ It should be noted that the above listing does NOT include certain groups that arose out of the Millerite movement but at one time had a common association with us.