Leaderboard

Dear Mr. Matthews, It's a great tragedy for America that you have declined to run for POTUS as a either a Republicator or Democritator. With your extensive experience in non-politics you would have been far more qualified than any community organizer or reality TV star. We believe it was the intent of the Founding Fathers of America that the presidency should not be bought by the wealthy, nor should it require riding horse back for thousands of miles just to make people think you care about them and their problems. Those of us dwelling in Adventistan sincerely hope that you reconsider running for POTUS, and if you do, know that we foresee you riding into glory and history on horseback as a great pioneer of non-campaigning and use of zero energy in order to save the world and America. Every single patriot and Green New Dealer has your back and a cartload of horse poop that can be used instead of fossil fuels to power America's future indefinitely. Sincerely, the Tater family, including Dick, Common, Frozen, Stuffed, Mashed, and Instant

I have often wondered why Jesus had such an attitude about His death, on the cross. One place in scripture tells us that “death is the last enemy to be destroyed,” (1 Cor 15:26), and yet, death was the reason Jesus came to Earth Incarnate. Moreover, it was a commandment from The Father,” that this all took place “in the fullness of time.” (Gal 4:4). It must have had something to do with “the fullness of time.” The day was a beautiful spring day, not a cloud in the sky. I was traveling down the road, looking for suitable spots to stop and get some photographs of the landscape. Despite the beautiful day, my heart had sunk into a pit of despair. So many things happening, all at once, threatening to engulf me in the end of time. I was wondering what the point of it all was. Without intending to, I drove right by a large billboard that said: “Canadian Badlands Passion Play.” For a minute I did not get what it was talking about, but then, as I drove into the entrance and started to explore, I realized that this was something I have heard about, over the years, but I never did look into it. “The cross” didnt seem like an “interesting” Christian theme, that could possibly be of help for me today. When I saw the three wooden crosses on the hill; “something” started to happen. I didnt know what. But I could literally feel it. I decided to trudge up the hill, to the foot of the cross. And as I started up the hill, I was overcome by a wave of “emotion.” I realized in seconds, that God was there; and that He was/Is in control. And so I stood at the foot of the cross, I prayed to our Redeemer, and many thoughts flooded my mind. I will share some more of those in a future post.

In my experience as a U.S. Army Chaplain: * In every major troop assignment that I had, I found 100+ military members who had formally told the Army that the SDA Church was their church of preference. That did not mean that they were formal members. But, it alerted me to a group of people, often unknown to the SDA Church, to whom I could attempt to build a relationship. * I served for three (3) years on the teaching faculty of the Army Chaplain School which was formally accredited by the regional accrediting agency. During that time, I had as many as 155 clergy in my classes. Some of those had never experienced a SDA clergyperson before. * During my time teaching in that school, one of the chaplains converted to the SDA denomination and became a SDA Army chaplain. * With the help of the Lord, of course, I have intervened in situations in a manner that stopped a SDA from going to prison on the basis of their beliefs. [NOTE: I also was able to do that for people who were not SDA.] * The bottom line is: We in the U.S. have SDA members of the military on all levels. Right now, there are SDA students attending U.S. Military Academies. Folks, we need to provide spiritual support for these people, whether or not we agree with their personal position on military service. * If you actually knew the historical background of this denomination, you would know that there were early leaders who supported military service. Yes, I am well aware of the early denominational positions that the Church in general took. * It may be of interest to you to know that the SDA denomination first allowed SDA clergy to become military chaplains due to the intervention of high level Army chaplains who pled with the General Conference to endorse SDA military chaplains in an attempt to keep SDAs out of prison. A long time ago, in another life I once wrote on this.

I do not hold that more than one position is correct. I have a personal position. I leave others to the widdom of God. I do not feel a need to exclude them from SDA fellowship if we can mutually in peace.

If people have no problem with agreeing with the timing of the other six days of the week, shouldn't it be easy to decide which day is the seventh by process of elimination? Seems reasonable to me.

But even in those countries, the so-called 6th day of the week (their Saturday) is called sabado (the sabbath) or "day7".

I seems straightforward and common sense to keep the Sabbath in the time zone where you live. I have no problem with Sunday keepers in general - even those who used to be Sabbath keepers. I don't understand it; but I have no problem with them. But for myself, I don't know if I could ever abandon Sabbath. For me it would be a sin that nagged me until I died. Sabbath is a huge blessing to me - I look forward to it every week. I don't know how others can abandon that (unless they considered Sabbath to be a burden).

I would agree with that - the angels appeared as male & when the Sodomites demanded that they hand the men over to be buggered Lot offered to toss his young (and virgin) daughters to the Sodomite mob for their sexual pleasure - BUT they [men of Sodom] rejected Lot's offer as they didn't want "specialized knowledge" of the private parts areas covered by the cloths of these two "females" - they wanted specialized knowledge of the MEN visiting Lot, what was under their cloths. The meaning couldn't be any clearer. This is a very tough Scripture for me - I see something much larger than just a negative description of lawless homosexual acts.

Earlier Bravus posted a link kto a copy of an article that he co-authored. That link charges $43.00 to access. The following link provides free access to that article. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7f15/5b3b8a3830246d4e9f39911a93116f818478.pdf

I don't believe the word "drag" in the song has anything to do with the drag your thinking of?? One of my favorite's also. What I really like about there music was that jazz saxophone that they played!!

Nor do I; which is why I am conflicted on the issue. Fortunately, I am not charged with drawing any lines. That is for Him to decide. As President Obama famously quipped on a different issue during the Saddleback Chuch "debate" back in 2008, this question is above my pay-grade. As I get older I realize that I don't need to have the answers to everything. This is one issue for which I'm comfortable not knowing the answer.

This may be a bit of a rabbit trail; but I spent some time researching just what Sabbath is all about after considering some of Gustave's comments. Since becoming an SDA, I thought (and still think) it was all about worship. Yet, when looking at every verse in scripture talking about Sabbath, there was only one verse that associated it with worship: "On the Sabbaths and New Moons the people of the land are to worship in the presence of the Lord at the entrance of that gateway." (Ezek. 46:3) This appears to be a future requirement; not a present one. All the other verses seem to focus on the "do not work" requirement. Almost all recorded breaches of Sabbath recorded have to do with people working on Sabbath, not their failing to worship. I'm not questioning the validity of Sabbath worship; nor will I consider Sunday the Sabbath - ever.

What a blast from the past! I actually saw the Dave Clark 5 live back in 1966. They were one of my favorite bands; and their song "Glad All Over " was one of my favorite songs back in the stone age of British Rock and before the 'Stoned Age".

The line from the post was from a Dave Clark 5 song of the 60s! Checked out the words and was a bit amused to see the word "drag" in it. How weird in this discussion. OK, OK, small minds amused by small things! The Dave Clark Five - Over And Over I said over and over and over again This dance is gonna be a drag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ji1MMXoAVk

In SDA congregations today establish a Sabbath School class based upon a group of people that want to get together as a group in group study and not upon isolating that group from the rest of the congregation. In my experience with such, sometimes the class has been established on the basis of a person who wanted to be the leader in a class, and intended to enlist people to attend. In such cases, I have seen such classes fail due to the fact that there a group of people did not exist who wanted such a class. However, which such a group existed, I have seen that class work out well.

FYI, there are many SDA congregations in the U.S. that allow any group that wants to have a Sabbath School Class, to have such. In that process, that class is typically allowed to study whatever they want to study, which often is not the official lesson. I do not believe that we should think that the LSU class is dedicated to promoting the idea that the practice of homosexuality is acceptable in Christian life. Rather, it is probably simply a class where people who deal with the issue of homosexuality may associate in a Bible study environment. NOTE: I wonder how many people commenting in this thread have actually attended that class? Yes, I have not.

IF we had listened to the doctor last year, my wife would not be here for my birthday today! We are so grateful for another birthday celebration, and looking forward to our June 3rd wedding anniversary. Here is a short video of something that makes us smile. I hope it is contagious! Our's is THE God of miracles, everyday! The love & support of friends on this forum over this difficult year is so appreciated.

Overall Question: What are some of the basic rhythms of life this lesson discussed? Memory Text: Ecclesiastes 3:1 New Living Translation For everything there is a season, a time for every activity under heaven. Sunday – In the Beginning Genesis 1 New Century Version In the beginning God created the sky and the earth. 2 The earth was empty and had no form. Darkness covered the ocean, and God’s Spirit was moving over the water. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, so he divided the light from the darkness. 5 God named the light “day” and the darkness “night.” Evening passed, and morning came. This was the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be something to divide the water in two.” 7 So God made the air and placed some of the water above the air and some below it. 8 God named the air “sky.” Evening passed, and morning came. This was the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered together so the dry land will appear.” And it happened. 10 God named the dry land “earth” and the water that was gathered together “seas.” God saw that this was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth produce plants—some to make grain for seeds and others to make fruits with seeds in them. Every seed will produce more of its own kind of plant.” And it happened. 12 The earth produced plants with grain for seeds and trees that made fruits with seeds in them. Each seed grew its own kind of plant. God saw that all this was good. 13 Evening passed, and morning came. This was the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky to separate day from night. These lights will be used for signs, seasons, days, and years. 15 They will be in the sky to give light to the earth.” And it happened. 16 So God made the two large lights. He made the brighter light to rule the day and made the smaller light to rule the night. He also made the stars. 17 God put all these in the sky to shine on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that all these things were good. 19 Evening passed, and morning came. This was the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the water be filled with living things, and let birds fly in the air above the earth.” 21 So God created the large sea animals and every living thing that moves in the sea. The sea is filled with these living things, with each one producing more of its own kind. He also made every bird that flies, and each bird produced more of its own kind. God saw that this was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Have many young ones so that you may grow in number. Fill the water of the seas, and let the birds grow in number on the earth.” 23 Evening passed, and morning came. This was the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth be filled with animals, each producing more of its own kind. Let there be tame animals and small crawling animals and wild animals, and let each produce more of its kind.” And it happened. 25 So God made the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling animals to produce more of their own kind. God saw that this was good. 26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image and likeness. And let them rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the tame animals, over all the earth, and over all the small crawling animals on the earth.” 27 So God created human beings in his image. In the image of God he created them. He created them male and female. 28 God blessed them and said, “Have many children and grow in number. Fill the earth and be its master. Rule over the fish in the sea and over the birds in the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 God said, “Look, I have given you all the plants that have grain for seeds and all the trees whose fruits have seeds in them. They will be food for you. 30 I have given all the green plants as food for every wild animal, every bird of the air, and every small crawling animal.” And it happened. 31 God looked at everything he had made, and it was very good. Evening passed, and morning came. This was the sixth day. Genesis 8:22 New International Reader’s Version “As long as the earth lasts, there will always be a time to plant and a time to gather the crops. As long as the earth lasts, there will always be cold and heat. There will always be summer and winter, day and night.” Monday – The Rhythms of Life 1 - Ecclesiastes 3:2 Holman Christian Standard Bible a time to give birth and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to uproot. 2 - Genesis 21:8 Contemporary English Version The time came when Sarah no longer had to nurse Isaac, and on that day Abraham gave a big feast. Judges 13:24 Christian Standard Bible So the woman gave birth to a son and named him Samson. The boy grew, and the Lord blessed him. 3 - Psalm 71:5 Easy-to-Read Version Lord God, you are my hope. I have trusted you since I was a young boy. Proverbs 5:18 English Standard Version Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth 4 - Genesis 15:15 Good News Translation You yourself will live to a ripe old age, die in peace, and be buried. Judges 8:32 Modern English Version Gideon son of Joash died at a good old age, and he was buried in the tomb of his father Joash in Ophrah of the Abiezrites. 5 - Psalm 90:10 Good News Translation Seventy years is all we have— eighty years, if we are strong; yet all they bring us is trouble and sorrow; life is soon over, and we are gone. Tuesday – The Unexpected Job 1:13-19 New English Translation 13 Now the day came when Job’s sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 14 and a messenger came to Job, saying, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing beside them, 15 and the Sabeans swooped down and carried them all away, and they killed the servants with the sword! And I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” 16 While this one was still speaking, another messenger arrived and said, “The fire of God has fallen from heaven and has burned up the sheep and the servants—it has consumed them! And I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” 17 While this one was still speaking another messenger arrived and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands and made a raid on the camels and carried them all away, and they killed the servants with the sword! And I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” 18 While this one was still speaking another messenger arrived and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and suddenly a great wind swept across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they died! And I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” Job 2:7-9 Contemporary English Version 7 Satan left and caused painful sores to break out all over Job’s body—from head to toe. d8 Then Job sat on the ash-heap to show his sorrow. And while he was scraping his sores with a broken piece of pottery, 9 his wife asked, “Why do you still trust God? Why don’t you curse him and die?” Wednesday – Transitions Acts 8:1 New International Version And Saul approved of their killing him. On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. Acts 8:3 New Living Translation But Saul was going everywhere to destroy the church. He went from house to house, dragging out both men and women to throw them into prison. Acts 9:1-22 New Century Version In Jerusalem Saul was still threatening the followers of the Lord by saying he would kill them. So he went to the high priest 2 and asked him to write letters to the synagogues in the city of Damascus. Then if Saul found any followers of Christ’s Way, men or women, he would arrest them and bring them back to Jerusalem. 3 So Saul headed toward Damascus. As he came near the city, a bright light from heaven suddenly flashed around him. 4 Saul fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul! Why are you persecuting me?” 5 Saul said, “Who are you, Lord?” The voice answered, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 Get up now and go into the city. Someone there will tell you what you must do.” 7 The people traveling with Saul stood there but said nothing. They heard the voice, but they saw no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground and opened his eyes, but he could not see. So those with Saul took his hand and led him into Damascus. 9 For three days Saul could not see and did not eat or drink. 10 There was a follower of Jesus in Damascus named Ananias. The Lord spoke to Ananias in a vision, “Ananias!” Ananias answered, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 The Lord said to him, “Get up and go to Straight Street. Find the house of Judas, and ask for a man named Saul from the city of Tarsus. He is there now, praying. 12 Saul has seen a vision in which a man named Ananias comes to him and lays his hands on him. Then he is able to see again.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, many people have told me about this man and the terrible things he did to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 Now he has come here to Damascus, and the leading priests have given him the power to arrest everyone who worships you.” 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! I have chosen Saul for an important work. He must tell about me to those who are not Jews, to kings, and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” 17 So Ananias went to the house of Judas. He laid his hands on Saul and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus sent me. He is the one you saw on the road on your way here. He sent me so that you can see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something that looked like fish scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he was able to see again! Then Saul got up and was baptized. 19 After he ate some food, his strength returned. Saul stayed with the followers of Jesus in Damascus for a few days. 20 Soon he began to preach about Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “Jesus is the Son of God.” 21 All the people who heard him were amazed. They said, “This is the man who was in Jerusalem trying to destroy those who trust in this name! He came here to arrest the followers of Jesus and take them back to the leading priests.” 22 But Saul grew more powerful. His proofs that Jesus is the Christ were so strong that his own people in Damascus could not argue with him. Galatians 1:15-17 God’s Word Translation 15 But God, who appointed me before I was born and who called me by his kindness, was pleased 16 to show me his Son. He did this so that I would tell people who are not Jewish that his Son is the Good News. When this happened, I didn’t talk it over with any other person. 17 I didn’t even go to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was. Instead, I went to Arabia and then came back to Damascus. Philippines 1:6 Common English Bible So now there isn’t any condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1 Christian Standard Bible Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus Thursday – Interactions Romans 15:7 Easy-to-Read Bible Christ accepted you, so you should accept each other. This will bring honor to God. Ephesians 4:2 English Standard Version with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love Ephesians 4:32 Contemporary English Version Instead, be kind and merciful, and forgive others, just as God forgave you because of Christ. 1 Thessalonians 3:12 Good News Translation May the Lord make your love for one another and for all people grow more and more and become as great as our love for you. James 5:16 New International Reader’s Version So confess your sins to one another. Pray for one another so that you might be healed. The prayer of a godly person is powerful. Things happen because of it. Luke 11:34 New Living Translation “Your eye is like a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is filled with light. But when it is unhealthy, your body is filled with darkness. Mark 4:24-25 New International Version 24 “Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more. 25 Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.”

I truly believe that you can stop, not you alone but with prayer, strength from THE HOLY SPIRT and the power of choice. People stop doing drugs and never went back, there are those who were gay and stop and never went back. Adulterers, thieves, liars, backbiters, drunkards the list goes on and on. You can stop doing all things wrong and then: In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard THE WORD of TRUTH, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with THE HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE, Eph 1:13 And grieve not THE HOLY SPIRIT of ELOHIYM, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Eph 4:30 WOY Then read Hebrew 11 and that is all that needs to be said! Thanks, Joe and all my friends! Blessings to All who Will Overcome!

Rape or incest is always offered as a legitimate reason for abortion. I am not going to argue as it is a lot to ask a woman/girl who has gone thru the experience to continue the horror of the whole event thru childbirth. And giving birth is in itself not risk free. However, you can find many stories of those who were a product of a rape event who were allowed to live, and even cherished, by their mothers even though conceived by an act of violence. It is an act of unbelievable selflessness that is so rare but also so kind to the baby. Another group of individuals who have to live with this practice are those who actually survived an abortion attempt. They, along with babies born of rape, will hear all their lives how they should have not been allowed to be born. That would be a heavy burden for a young person or child to carry. How would you deal with such a thing growing up? (rhetorical question!)

That has been a theme of some Hollywood movies. I refer to two movies from the 70s - "Soylent Green" and "Logans Run". I won't spoil them in case you haven't seen them! Unfortunately, it is already being put into practice in some countries. I read once where anyone older than 73 cannot receive treatment for certain kinds of leukemia. Euthanasia and assisted suicide in Europe has moved past the terminally ill to those who are pressured by family even to go thru with physician assisted suicide. It is said the doctor arrives expecting goodbyes to be done and he is gone within 15 minutes. I will have to disagree with you on this one. First of all, an 80 year is unlikely to get a heart and it will have nothing to do with wealth. Wealth and influence will not help in the US. However, a poor person may not be able to afford the procedure. Several decades ago, it became quite the scandal when Saudi royalty came to US hospitals, sometimes taking over entire floors and they seemed to be moved up the list quickly undoubtedly due to ability to pay well. The results is that today, organ donations are handled by UNOS with very strict guidelines on how available organs are distributed. I am aware of all of this because at one time I was certified in requesting organ donations from families with a deceased family member. I often took care of the deceased until the process of donation was worked out and the recipient had made it to the hospital. This is referring to the brain dead donors. Brain death leads to a severe instability in the body and needs careful management in the ICU to preserve the organs. I worked very closely with the the donor network teams. Although I ethically approved of organ donation, sort of, I am not an organ donor myself. I seriously disapproved of some of the attitudes of some healthcare workers when the wait was on for an organ. I remember someone coming thru my unit once and was asked about a child that needed an heart. The person said, "we're just waiting for a heart." I was quite upset about it as what they were saying was "We are waiting for someone else's child to die." (it was their attitude more than the reality of what needed to happen.) In a weird sense of it all, organ donation is almost like high tech canabalism! Primitives eat their victims to survive. Moderns take their organs to survive. This also gets into allocation of resources. While it does not translate directly, the cost of one organ transplant could save far more lives thru just having more food to eat. It is a huge per capita resource consumption to transplant organs. Early in the days of total abdominal organ transplant, one little girl finally survived after ten others failed and died. So, up to her alone, the total costs was over five million dollars. That was just the procedure. Then comes a lifetime of healthcare to manage organ rejection and immune suppression related infections. Nuff said, I could go on!

I come before you today realizing that the time has come for me to make a definitive announcement of my plans as to whether or not I will enter the race for President of the United States. I acknowledge that this forum, Adventistan is the ideal venue in which to state my plans. With some 9,000 plus members it has clearly demonstrated that it has the ability to grow in size. Further, as I analyze its population, I sense that its members include both those followers of the current President, whom I will not name as well as those who are looking for someone new, which I am. As I consider my decision, I believe that I have the following qualification that would suggest that I run for President: · * The President needs to be decisive person who can make decision. I fit that mold. Less than 30 minutes has occurred between the time that I first considered it and the time at which I made my decision. · * My years of service in the military, to include service as an enlisted person who reached the rank of Specialist 4 and as a Commissioned Officer who achieved the rank of Major, and served in combat, demonstrates that I have better qualifications to deploy our military internationally than have other Presidents. · * My 20 years of employment with the VA gives me the background needed to understand how the government operates, how it should be reformed and to reform it. · * My formal training in Mediation qualified me to preside over a fractious government system. · * My years of service in representing employees of the Federal government in negotiations with management demonstrates that I can understand and provide for the needs of the common working person. · * Due to issues that I have with sleep, I consider that my ability to sleep during boring meetings as well as to rise early and get to work specially qualifies me for the positon over and above some who have served before me. · * I do not micromanage. I chose competent people and allow them to do their job. · * I will select persons to fill government positons from both Republications and Democrats that are representative of the U.S. population While the above are only a few of my qualification to run for President, I must say that I am lacking in some respects: · * With my advanced age, I am not longer head and shoulders above all of the others who have announced that they are running for President. I have shrunk in height from what I once was. · * I do not have the financial resources needed to purchase the office as some have had. · * I do not own a jet aircraft capable of flying me around the country in luxury. · * While I have represented people before a Federal Administrative Law Judge I have never been to law school. · * I do not want to spend the next two years traveling the country. I have visited all 50 of the States in the past and I do not need to repeat that. Well here you have it--my qualifications for and my lack of qualifications. The time has come to make a decision. I have made a decision and chosen to announce in on this preeminent forum: I will not run for President of the United States during the next election. This decision of firm. NOTE: I have announced my decisions based upon my belief that the multitude of Democrats who are expected to run for President (Presently 14, with more expected to join the race.) requires that I make a statement.

The Federal Government rightly recognizes that a person's religious rights are not determined by the teachings of the denomination to which the person belongs. Rather, they are determined by the beliefs of the individual. When I entered military service under the provision of the Draft, and in which I had given up my exemption of a clergy exemption and I had volunteered to immediately be drafted, I went through a Basic Training for conscientious objectors. One of the others being trained with me was a Roman Catholic. Now, the Roman Catholic Church is not a conscientious objector church. But, he was, as an individual. The government rightly recognized his religious rights, regardless of the position of the denomination to which he belonged and granted him his rights. The RC Church also continued to offer him spiritual nurture. He did not have to agree with the RC position on military service. An example of my main statement here is that of the JW that I mentioned. When he arrived for his interview with me, he carried a number of books published by the JW denomination. I immediately informed him that I already know what the JWs taught and I was not interested in him telling me what I already knew. I wanted to have a conversation with him. For two (2) hours we talked without one reference to what was in his books. With my determination of his sincerity, the Hearing Officer recommended that his request for a CO discharge be approved. The Commanding General simply said: "Not on my watch." The CGs wish was granted and the soldier was given his honorable discharge, but not on the watch of the General. [NOTE: I do not claim to have had any influence on the change in assignment of the General. Changes in assignment regularly take place for all officers.] At that time I soon became known as the expert on CO Discharges and I was generally asked to evaluate such requests. My status was also influenced that in talking to the person requesting such a discharge, I was, at times, able to obtain a statement from the soldier that they were not sincere and simply wanting to scam the system. Such a statement, of course, ended their request for a CO discharge. My point: In actual fact, the military has a process by which it is determined whether or not a military member should be granted a CO discharge. It is not automatic to grant such. A person can fail the process.

definitely!! We are so quick to judge people who dont live the way we prescribe for them

As to the policies of other nations: In another assignment, as a chaplain, and in another nation, I visited with a SDA member of that nations Army. during the visit, he took off his shirt and showed me the scars on his back, where he had been beaten for a position that he had taken related to his religious beliefs and military service. Recently, that nation has become more accommodating to SDAs in the military. So, I will not name it.

* In my 20+ years of military service, to include combat, I was always been listed in the records as a conscientious objector. * The commandment, "Thou shalt not kill.," Is better translated as Thou shalt not murder. * It is commonly believed that a death that occurs in a law enforcement action may not be a violation of that commandment. * I can respect a person who makes a personal decision not to be involved with the military. * I have never encouraged a "traditional Adventist" to join the military, with the possible exceptions of chaplain and medical positions. * I support the present SDA position to provide spiritual support to SDAs who find themselves in the military. * I hope that we do not change our present position.

Overall Question: How do we as sinful human beings make the right choices? Memory Text: Joshua 24:15 Bible in Basic English And if it seems evil to you to be the servants of the Lord, make the decision this day whose servants you will be: of the gods whose servants your fathers were across the River, or of the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living: but I and my house will be the servants of the Lord. Joshua 24:15 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE Joshua well knew that all service that was not free and voluntary could be only deceit and hypocrisy, and that God loveth a cheerful giver. He therefore calls upon the people to make their choice, for God himself would not force them-they must serve him with all their heart if they served him at all. As for himself and family, he shows them that their choice was already fixed, for they had taken JEHOVAH for their portion. Sunday – Free Will, Free Choice Ephesians 1:1-4 Revised Standard Version 1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. Titus 1:1-2 Montgomery New Testament 1 To Titus, my true son in a common faith, from Paul, a slave of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and to the knowledge of the truth which goes with piety; 2 I write in hope of life eternal which God who never lies, promised before times eternal, Titus 1:1 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES It is the purpose of God to save his people, but he does not mean to save them as infidels, or unbelievers. He intends that they shall be believers first--and hence he sends his ministers that they may become such. 2 Timothy 1:8-9 Twentieth Century New Testament 8 Do not, therefore, be ashamed of the testimony which we have to bear to our Lord, nor yet of me who am a prisoner for him; but join with me in suffering for the Good News, as far as God enables you. 9 It was God who saved us, and from him we received our solemn Call--not as a reward for anything that we had done, but in fulfilment of his own loving purpose. For that love was extended to us, through Christ Jesus, before time began, Matthew 22:35-37 American Standard Version 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Monday – Making the Right Choices 1 – 1 Thessalonians 5:17 American Standard Version pray without ceasing. James 1:5 Weymouth New Testament And if any one of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask God for it, who gives with open hand to all men, and without upbraiding; and it will be given him. 2 – Isaiah 1:19 The Clear Word for Kids If you listen and do what I say, I will bless you, and your country will be full of good things again. Isaiah 1:19 FAMILY BIBLE NOTES God's almighty power nad truth are pledged to give prosperity to the righteous, and to destroy the wicked. The welfare of his friends and the destruction of his enemies are as certain as his own existence. Matthew 7:24-25 Revised Standard Version 24 "Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 3 – Psalm 119:105 The Clear Word for Kids Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path. Psalm 119:105 COMMENTARY THE TREASURY OF DAVID (Charles Spurgeon) Ignorance is painful upon practical subjects; it breeds indecision and suspense, and these are uncomfortable: the word of God, by imparting heavenly knowledge, leads to decision, and when that is followed by determined resolution, as in this case, it brings with it great restfulness of heart. 2 Timothy 3:16 Andrews Study Bible (New King James Version) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 4-Proverbs 3:5-6 Holman Christian Standard Bible Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do rely on your own understanding; think about Him in all yhour ways, and He will guide you on the right paths. Isaiah 58:11 Holman Christian Standard Bible The Lord will always lead you, satisfy you in a parched land, and strengthen your bones. You will be like a watered garden and like a spring whose waters never run dry. 5 – Proverbs 15:22 Andrews Study Bible Without counsel, plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established. Proverbs 15:22 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY If men will not take time and pains to deliberate with themselves, or are so confident of their own judgment that they scorn to consult with others, they are not likely to bring any thing considerable to pass; circumstances defeat them which, with a little consultation, might have been foreseen and obviated. It is a good rule, both in public and domestic affairs, to do nothing rashly and of one's own head. Proverbs 24:6 Bible in Basic English For by wise guiding you will overcome in war: and in a number of wise guides there is salvation. Tuesday – Choosing Friends Proverbs 12:26 The Clear Word for Kids A good man turns his friends away from evil, but a wicked man leads them into sin. Proverbs 12:26 COMMENTARY BY JAMIESON, FAUSSET, AND BROWN the ability of the righteous to aid others is contrasted with the ruin to which the way of the wicked leads themselves. Proverbs 17:17 Holman Christian Standard Bible A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a difficult time. Proverbs 18:24 The Clear Word for Kids A man who wants friends must be friendly. There is one Friend who is closer to you than a brother. Proverbs 18:24 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY What we must do that we may contract and cultivate friendship; we must show ourselves friendly. Would we have friends and keep them, we must not only not affront them, or quarrel with them, but we must love them, and make it appear that we do so by all expressions that are endearing, by being free with them, pleasing to them, visiting them and bidding them welcome, and especially by doing all the good offices we can and serving them in every thing that lies in our power; that is showing ourselves friendly. Proverbs 22:24-25 Bible in Basic English 24 ¶ Do not be friends with a man who is given to wrath; do not go in the company of an angry man: 25 For fear of learning his ways and making a net ready for your soul. Wednesday – Choosing a Life Partner Psalm 37:27 New International Version Turn from evil and do good; then you will dwell in the land forever. Psalm 119:97 New Century Version How I love your teachings! I think about them all day long. Psalm 119:97 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY What we love we love to think of; by this it appeared that David loved the word of God that it was his meditation. He not only read the book of the law, but digested what he read in his thoughts, and was delivered into it as into a mould: it was his meditation not only in the night, when he was silent and solitary, and had nothing else to do, but in the day, when he was full of business and company; nay, and all the day; some good thoughts were interwoven with his common thoughts, so full was he of the word of God. 1 Corinthians 15:33 New English Translation Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” 1 Corinthians 15:33 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES Christ sought that there should be a pure society, and that his people should principally seek the friendship and conversation of each other, and withdraw from the world. It is in the way that Paul here refers to, that Christians embrace false doctrines; that they lose their spirituality, love of prayer, fervor of piety, and devotion to God. It is in this way that the simple are beguiled, the young corrupted, and that vice, and crime, and infidelity spread over the world. James 1:23-25 Good News Translation 23 If you listen to the word, but do not put it into practice you are like people who look in a mirror and see themselves as they are. 24 They take a good look at themselves and then go away and at once forget what they look like. 25 But if you look closely into the perfect law that sets people free, and keep on paying attention to it and do not simply listen and then forget it, but put it into practice—you will be blessed by God in what you do. James 1:23 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES While actually looking in the mirror, we see all our features, and can trace them distinctly; when we turn away, the image and the impression both vanish. When looking in the mirror, we can see all the defects and blemishes of our person; if there is a scar, a deformity, a feature of ugliness, it is distinctly before the mind; but when we turn away, that is "out of sight, and out of mind." Thursday – Choosing a Course Ecclesiastes 2:1-11 Contemporary English Version I said to myself, “Have fun and enjoy yourself!” But this didn’t make sense. 2 Laughing and having fun is crazy. What good does it do? 3 I wanted to find out what was best for us during the short time we have on this earth. So I decided to make myself happy with wine and find out what it means to be foolish, without really being foolish myself. 4 I did some great things. I built houses and planted vineyards. 5 I had flower gardens and orchards full of fruit trees. 6 And I had pools where I could get water for the trees. 7 I owned slaves, and their sons and daughters became my slaves. I had more sheep and goats than anyone who had ever lived in Jerusalem. 8 Foreign rulers brought me silver, gold, and precious treasures. Men and women sang for me, and I had many wives who gave me great pleasure. 9 I was the most famous person who had ever lived in Jerusalem, and I was very wise. 10 I got whatever I wanted and did whatever made me happy. But most of all, I enjoyed my work. 11 Then I thought about everything I had done, including the hard work, and it was simply chasing the wind. Nothing on earth is worth the trouble. Ecclesiastes 2:1 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY What does noisy, flashy mirth towards making a man happy? The manifold devices of men's hearts, to get satisfaction from the world, and their changing from one thing to another, are like the restlessness of a man in a fever. Perceiving it was folly to give himself to wine, he next tried the costly amusements of princes. The poor, when they read such a description, are ready to feel discontent. But the remedy against all such feelings is in the estimate of it all by the owner himself. All was vanity and vexation of spirit: and the same things would yield the same result to us, as to Solomon.

I disagree. None of the first four commandments in the KJV are precepts of natural law. They are stipulations to be observed in relationship between the Creator and the created. The last six commandments are arguably precepts of natural law. I could argue that they are not; but that is outside the scope of this thread. To clarify, the commandment for humans to keep the Sabbath was only recorded and codified at that time. The Sabbath was created at creation; and there is no reason NOT to believe that humans kept it prior to the Egyptian captivity. I would even think that God had to show the people which day was the Sabbath by using the manna. Why would God give the world 9 Commandments as universal law for all humanity, and one just for the Israelites? I can't find any scripture that breaks out the 4th Commandment just for Israelites.I don't recall any Bible stories about people being swallowed up by the earth or undergoing spontaneous combustion for eating pork or wearing clothes of mixed fibers. I DO see some pretty serious consequences falling on those who did not observe Sabbath - some on the same order as idolatry. No, the Sabbath was made for man - all humanity - not just for the Israelites.

There is a history of the apostate church gradually transitioning Christian Sabbath observance from the 7th day of the week, as mandated by Scripture, to the first day, Sunday, during the early centuries, AD. This is well documented. That the Bible itself calls for the observance of the 7th day, called Saturday in English, is no pet theory. The Jews have continued this observance to the present day. I will give you this: It would be wrong to speak of "excuses" for Sunday observance in individual terms, as if to judge a person's motives. I am guilty of not having been clear about this. When I speak of "excuses," I'm really referring to deceptions, crafted by the father of lies, intended to keep God's people in error, and perhaps to salve their conscience long enough to enable him to move some of them into genuine rebellion and to ultimately destroy them. We must never judge motive. That's God place. On the other hand, it is sometimes possible to know that you are seeing the light on a particular topic, and it's always good to share that light, keeping an open mind and a humble spirit, knowing that to err is human.

This is one of the attitudes I have found most off-putting among Christians of all stripes, that is the idea that if someone doesn't agree with one's pet theory that one's interlocutor must be insincere, deceived, in bad faith, or looking for "excuses". Even St. Paul who was taught by Jesus Christ himself wrote that he sees through the glass darkly. Yet almost 2,000 years removed from those events some believe that they have it all figured out and that anyone with a differing opinion must perforce be in blatant error.

JoeMo also has a point, as well as you. What I was hoping to illustrate with my last post above was simply to be aware of the enormous investment of emotion that both sides seem to put into this. After all, think of whats at stake for either side, should they be proven "wrong." I was right across from the Royal Tyrell Museum earlier today, (near Drumheller) for photography, and I didnt have time to actually go in and get updated on the latest "evolutionary theory," but I will be able to get there later this week, I think. There is also a Creation Museum of some kind here in Alberta. I will likely get there soon as well, on one of my outings.

I've watched Gentry and his son on 3ABN, etc., and he does come across as aggressive, but what is not said from his evolutionist buddies, is that he was that same way as an evolutionist!! But he's not the only one!! There is Walter V, and C.S. Lewis.

I would add another issue to the list that Kevin has given: A common argument that some Adventists make that many important doctrines of the Bible , to include the doctrine of the Sabbath would be undermined and even thrown out if one were to accept a time period greatly exceeding 6,000 to 10,000 years. I reject this argument. (Actually, I think it is nonsense.) I am thinking right now of PhD. (chemical geology) Adventist who believes in a much longer time period. Yet, he is a strong advocate for the Sabbath, deeply involved in the ministry of the local SDA congregation that he attends and is in harmony with other doctrinal positions that the SDA Church has taken.

Interesting. From childhood, I learned that the Sabbath was the 7th day of the week, which was easily recognized as the day before Sunday, the resurrection day. (Not all of our calendars showed Saturday as the end of the week. Some showed Sunday as the 7th day.) I never heard any reference to the Jews. But maybe we can leave behind our childhood memories and focus on a common-sense way to determine which is the 7th day of the week anywhere on the globe right now.

People keep wanting to get all mixed up re the 7th day, and yet, there is never any mix up about the other 6 days. THAT alone makes it pretty obvious where this is coming from and where its headed.

Its the day following the 6th day. Kind of like saying what time is it? And the answer comes out: "now if you hurry and a little later if you dont. I dont get how 7th all of a sudden gets so confusing to people, yet none of the others do!!

Those who imagine themselves to be the sole possessors of "truth" often tend to be bigots. In this case, those in the synagogue who got angry with Yeshua were Gentile-haters, too, deeply offended by being compared unfavorably with non-Jews..

Dr. George Knight has written a book, published by the denomination, that discusses the manner in which the writings of EGW have been used in this denomination, following her death. The following is an interview with Dr. Knight about his new book. https://spectrummagazine.org/interviews/2019/ellen-whites-afterlife-author-interview-george-r-knight NOTE: The following quote is a part of the above article. Read the full article for all of the questions.

The following is one short statement, from Wikipedia, as to the background of fundamentalism: The following, also from Wikipedia includes a statement of the doctrinal positions discussed in those twelve (12) phamphlets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals

Historically the meaning of the word "fundamentalism," as it is defined when used in a religious sense, is found in that series of pamphlets, as cited below. Yes, today, that word is used in other contexts, outside of religion. For example, it is used in a political sense. In my opinion, when used in that sense, it can be traced back to a time in England. But, that is not the sense in which it has been used in this forum. So, I will not get into a discussion of those other meanings of the word. The bottom line is that when used in a religious sense, the meaning of "fundamentalism:" is best defined by beginning with a reference to that series of pamphlets that discussed basic religious doctrine. From that, one may decide to discuss how the meaning of the word may have changed over time to the point as to how one might say it is used today, if one is going to say that the meaning today has evolved from the past.

There were two issues that came together here. The first was that Nazareth was a backwoods "you got to be kidding" town. Because of the Bible education was important among the Jews. Most of the world was illiterate. The Jews all knew how to read. A typical '"Illiterate" Jew had the equivalent to 2 to 4 years of college to us. The "literates" were people who had advanced education into the thoughts and discussions of the Rabbis. In this world of educated people, a small out of the way town like Nazareth was a small Jewish outpost working for the larger pagan cities around it. They only had the equivalent of a 6th grade education. They were influenced by the more conservative schools of the Rabbis, such as the school of Shammai. Now we won't know if this next part has happened unless we find the rabbi lists for Nazareth, but these conservative schools did have some woman rabbis, and most of them were stuck in these small out of the way towns. Nazareth was so small that it did not make it on any ancient maps or even the city lists of the area. It consisted of poor but hard working people and very conservative. But sometimes people at this extreme have a way of looking down on the better educated. And this attitude can get people to miss the opportunities that God gives them. The fact that Nathaniel knew about Nazareth was pretty amazing. Rabbis encouraged their students to study under fig trees. So that tells us about who Nathaniel was. He was offered to study with a rabbi with only a 6th grade education. What good would that be. First of all those first 6 years of learning to read, write and arithmetic, the reading and writing part was focused on the Bible. After those 6 years they would get farther away from the Bible itself and more into rabbinical discussions and debates over the Bible. Second, Nazareth was on a ridge overlooking the Jezreel Valley where a large number of Bible stories took place. Living in Nazareth gave a chance to look out or take a walk to where the stories took place and read the stories right where they happened and your mind gets a visual of the story. Living in Nazareth gave a better version of the Bible story than even Uncle Arthur. But the people of Nazareth had a mindset that there should not be a headline "Local boy does good". The second thing was that they were a small Jewish outpost in an area full of pagans. It is easy to feel overwhelmed by all the pagans, but you are one of God's chosen people , so you can look down on the pagans. But Mr. big time rabbi with his 6th grade education would speak words of grace for these pagans. That really made them mad.

... and that boundary line may get a little blurry at times. It is certainly messy. But just like a messy barn is a sign of an active farm, maybe a messy church is a sign of a busy church. Just an analogy, not a personal doctrine.

One thing I like about the SDA denomination is the leeway granted most believers to differ somewhat from mainstay beliefs of the church. Do you think that Ford would have been handled the same way if he rose up anew today? The dynamics have changed a lot since 40 years ago.

For an interesting article, which I wish was more extensive, can be read at the website below: https://atoday.org /christ-the-eschatos-a-meeting-with-gnu-and-the-general-conference/?fbclid=IwAR2Xk9iZPQ8YyilM1AIQWKLHV5Bq05sDk_ZryXrNM-q5FLPRN4J-WX6rHckddddd NOTE: I think that Smuts van Rooyen was given back his SDA clergy status at a later time.

It is sad when we look at our roots. When the town of Washington N H incorporated the community could not decide on a church. Some people wanted an established church with only approved theology to be taught. Others wanted a church were anyone who believed that they had a message from the Lord were free to share and the members had their right to accept or reject in part or in whole of what the speakers say. Since they could not decide the town made two churches to meet these two factions. The one church who welcomed the views of everyone became known as the first Seventh-day Adventist Church. (although there may have been Adventist churches in some Seventh-day Baptist communities that might dispute Washington NH's claim, but which is also part of our roots.) As for our other early churches, our pioneers were misfits who were kicked out of their churches. They had a dream of forming a church where the pain that was inflected among them would not be inflected among others. They were influenced by the political views of the American Revolution, especially Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson and applied those principles to religion. They formed a religion that agreed upon a handful of landmarks, and beyond those, as long as they were not fanatical, they were free to worship God according to the dictates of their conscience using only their understanding of the Bible to be their personal creed. Interestingly this first generation appears to have had a foundation from reformation theology and thus a foundation similar to Des Ford's views upon which they built on that foundation the ideas of Adventism and 1844 and God's law including the Sabbath. While their preaching was based on the difference between them and other Christians, that preaching was based on the more evangelical foundation that was in their hearts. The second generation had built more of a foundation on our differences. It is sad that this foundation has been assaulted by the spirit of wanting to have our particular subgroup of Adventism to be seen as the only real Adventists and to tell everyone else to shut up and comply.

Very interesting articles. I'm not just sure how to comment, so please forgive this awkward attempt, but too much of the church still wants it to be basically the two views of Ford on one side and the so called "Historic Adventists" on the other. And I feel that some of the other perspectives tend to be getting over looked Ford's view tends to be more focused on modern "evangelical Christianity" where there is a set of "Christian" traditions that we find in like "Bible Colleges" and a more sticky sweet Jesusie and who's scholarship tends to be focused on how the Bible was interpreted by Christians over Church history, especially the reformers. Their whole approach tends to be more devotional and not digging very deeply. The so called "Historic Adventists" have another set of traditions which was repeated in these articles. Besides Ford and the so called "Historic Adventists" there is the Adventist Theological Society. The ATS is/was first of all one option between Ford and the "Historic Adventists" The big difference is that they are more exegetical/Biblical Theology (think William Foxwell Albright and archaeology) than Ford and the Historical Adventists. Now all three of these groups tend to be very forensic in their view of salvation and they also tend to be quite fundamentalists in their approaches. Then we also have the subgroups who tend to be non-forensic and more or less anti-Fundamentalists. We have say Alden Thompson and the theology department from Walla Walla, the "Larger View" people from California (Graham Maxwell and company) and the views from the theology department from Atlantic Union College from the mid 1970s to mid 1980s (John Wood, James Valentine, Dean Davis, George Rice) who like the ATS was very exegetical/Biblical Theology, but did not cling to all the traditions that the ATS would cling to. All of these perspectives of Adventism had different perspectives of 1844, and while I pointed out these specific subgroups, they are reflections of ideas that stem from the late 1800s and early 1900s. At times we learned how to play together. But our problems come when one or another of these groups see themselves as being the "True Adventists" and want to force their particular flavor of Adventism on all the rest of us.

In Romans 1:28-32, Paul lists 20 other sins besides homosexuality that will keep one out of the Kingdom. I would venture to say that most (if not all) of us have had problems with one or more sins on this list. If everyone who had willfully committed any of these sins were excluded from fellowship, our churches would be pretty empty. "Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." So let's not put all of our focus on LGBTQ+.

R.G. As is typical for me, I have been quite busy today (April 30) and I have not had time to respond to questions. I will probably be more active tomorrow than I have been today. But, in actual fact, sometimes I just have to give up the Internet for things that I need to do at home. On that basis, I may be limited on this coming Monday and I will probably be off of the Internet for most of Tuesday. Sorry that you will have to miss my words of wisdom on those days. But, that is how it is. NOTE: My wife often tells me that I have a dry sense of humor that is often misunderstood. If you do not know why I said that in this post, you have demonstrated the truth of that statement.

Let's put this question to the test. Is it possible to consistently apply the "under the same sun" argument, and keep the 7th day globally without regard to any date line? As the argument goes, it cannot be the 7th day in American Samoa and the 1st day in Samoa at the same time under the same sun. Therefore, Sunday must be the 7th day in Samoa. But are Fiji and American Samoa not also under the same sun? Must we keep Sunday in Fiji? In order to be consistent, yes. What about Fiji and New Zealand? Yes, they are under the same sun. So now Sunday is the 7th day in New Zealand. How about New Zealand and Australia? Yes, the same. Australia and China? China and Russia? Russia and Germany and France? Yes, all of the above. How about France and the U.K.? Yes. The U.K. and Iceland? Iceland and Greenland? How about Greenland and Canada? Yes, all of the above. So now we have Sunday as the 7th day in Canada. How about Canada and the USA, including Alaska and Hawaii? Same sun. But aren't Hawaii and American Samoa under the same sun? Yes. So Sunday is the 7th day in American Samoa. That means Monday is the 7th day in Fiji. We can go around the world again until Monday is the 7th day everywhere, then Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. Without any recognition of a date line somewhere, with it being the 6th day on one side when it is the 7th day on the other side, there is no stopping point that will allow us to reach a consistent conclusion. We may take comfort in the self-evident fact that God made His Sabbath for a round world, so none of this is unplanned. God literally created the date line phenomenon, without specifying its location. God could have told us, through His prophets, exactly where He wanted to date line to be, but modern governments would have ignored His instructions and confusion would have reigned supreme. Instead, in His infinite wisdom, God has left it to the civil powers to choose, on behalf of everyone under their jurisdiction, on which side of the date line their territory shall lie. The end result is a beautiful simplicity, for the humble and obedient, in which Saturday is nowhere separated from its definition as the 7th day of the week.

In the 1880s General Conference President Butler wrote a series of articles against Fundamentalism. In 1888 he and his nephew, Elder Washburn were united in their opposition to Jones and Wagner. They were shocked that Mrs. White sided somewhat with Jones and Wagner instead of opposing them and also making a strong stand over issues such as who were the 10 horns and defending the traditional Adventist teaching of the daily in Daniel. Butler had to go and wrestle with these issues but came back stronger. In the 20th century Butler and his nephew Elder Washburn had a falling out over the issue of Fundamentalism. Butler of course having never accepted Fundamentalism and Washburn not being as extreme as Canright, but still was a firm believer in Fundamentalism. I believe that what helped Butler was his rejection of Fundamentalism. Washburn on the other hand tried to make some kind way for the anti-Jones and Wagner view, and one set of horns and the traditional view of the Daily to still be strong in the post 1888 Adventism. He and others who held similar views got some strong testimonies from Mrs. White. They would often reply by reminding her of some of her quotes and how they had come from God. She would talk about how she was not infallible and talk about how her visions work. While I have to give them credit that I did not see this next part in their letters, but in the early 1900s there were pamphlets and letters going around accusing Mrs. White of aposticy. One of the major issues in those claims was her no longer believing that she was a prophet because she rejected Fundamentalism and did not see her writings as infallible. Mrs. White's last major battle was trying to keep Fundamentalism out of the church. And as your post B/W gives evidence to, this was a battle that she lost. The closest she got to victory was that we never officially accepted Fundamentalism and that our fundamentalists have been on the liberal end of the Fundamentalist spectrum. Mrs. White died in 1915 and Elder Butler died in 1917. Prescott, Daniels and Willie continued the fight. 1919 was that major Fundamentalist Bible conference in Philadelphia. Many of our pastors and Bible teachers decided to attend. Elder Daniels was worried that if Fundamentalism was not checked in the church that people would find similar problems that Elder Canright found and that eventually Fundamentalism would end up destroying the church. So he invited the pastors and teachers who were on their way to Philadelphia to first stop by Washington DC for a Bible conference. Elders Daniels and Prescott lead out. Willie was to help them but saw the storm that was growing and had to be out of town on business. At first it appeared that the conference was going well. Sadly at the close of the meeting Daniels and Prescott did not collect the tickets from Washington DC to Philadelphia and burn them like how Paul had those magic books burned in the Bible. The men went on the train and went to Philadelphia. Then they went home and left behind the Washington D.C. 1919 Bible conference and brought with them the Philadelphia 1919 Bible conference. Stephen Haskell, Elder Washburn and Elder Wilkinson among others were very upset at the 1919 Washington D. C. Bible conference. Although Prescott was more moderate than Washburn and Wilkinson, they united in a war against the anti-fundamentalists. This lead to the 1922 General Conference when Daniels and Prescott were demoted and Willie, although allowed to keep his job, had any authority removed. Basically he was fired but allowed to keep his office and pay check. Daniels was replaced by Elder Spicer. Now Spicer was seen as almost as big a heretic as Daniels and the others. Elder Spicer believed in two different types of inspiration. He believed that Fundamentalism was true when it came to the Bible, but that Mrs. White was inspired in a different way than the Bible and thus Fundamentalism did not apply to her. But while Elder Daniels felt that Fundamentalism would destroy the church, Elder Spicer was willing to keep his heresy to himself. He believed that Fundamentalism, while wrong, was harmless and if members wanted to believe it them let them.