Jump to content
Kingdom of Adventistan

Leaderboard


Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/27/2019 in Posts

  1. 4 points
    Stan

    My New Project, check out the person on page 6

    First edition of the Magazine published in cooperation with the General Conference, Office of Adventist Mission and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada. For information on subscribing to this please email MessengerSA@adventist.ca http://issues.adventistmessenger.ca/books/clae/
  2. 3 points
    This goes along with what I heard once, "We will have the capacity to sin (in heaven), but we won't want to." Just like the angels in heaven now, they still have the power of choice. But when they see what our world is like now, there is no way they would be tempted to follow Satan.
  3. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Lutherans & SDAS agree & Unite

    For the past several years a Lutheran congregation in in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, has owned a building in which a SDA congregation has also worshiped along with the Lutherans. On April 13, 2019, the SDAs assumed ownership of that building. As part of that process, the Lutheran congregation will continue to share in the use of the building. IOW, the building will continuer to be used by both groups for ministry. This agreement included the Minnesota Conference (SDA). For more detail, see the cited reference below. The above information came from: OUTLOOK, June 2019, pages 20 & 21.
  4. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    The Sabbath

    Worth thinking about: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2019/our-sabbath-rest-jesus
  5. 3 points
    JoeMo

    Who condemned Jesus?

    The Bible contains many stories of Jesus socializing with Pharisees. His greatest apostle was a Pharisee. I don't recall a single Bible story of Jesus socializing with Sadducees. Maybe it made Him sad, you see? If believe that Jesus may have identified with true Pharisees; while He reviled the hypocritical ones.
  6. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    The One Project

    Hobie: Among the many accusations made against The One Project, few have suggested Willow Creek as a source. Many have suggested another source. You must be aware of information that has not generally been available to others. Was this a divine revelation?
  7. 3 points
    Bravus

    A chill coming in American culture

    I was classified as a missionary, I think, and went to 'missionary school' prior to moving there and so on, but my role was as a teacher educator. Pacific Adventist University (then Pacific Adventist College) draws students from all over the Pacific, not just Papua New Guinea, so I taught Samoan, Fijian and Solomon Islands students as well as Papua New Guineans. My particular field is science education, so I was involved in preparing the Adventist physics and chemistry teachers for the region. It was a great time in our lives: we had a 2 year old daughter when we moved to PNG and our second daughter was born while we lived there. I ended up coming back to Australia sooner than originally planned to start my PhD.
  8. 3 points
    B/W Photodude

    Who's fooling who?

    "Rightly dividing" the word of God does not come even by careful reading of it. Which is why Paul stated in 2 Tim 3:7, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." I have met people that can recite long passages of Scripture and cannot even correctly verbalize the meaning of it. The Pharisees of Jesus's time on earth, were intently studying Scripture looking for the Messiah and did not even recognize Him walking among them. I suspect that the same is even true of EGW's writings. Those who reject the gift given thru her or are other wise critical of what we have been given thru her will not really understand it. So, I would be careful of dismissing things that you don't understand.
  9. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    Kevin is absolutely correct when he essentially tells us that in the time of Christ, Passover was observed differently according to the specific sect to which one subscribed. I may differ from my friend Gustave, as to which date I prefer. I may think that my choice is a better one. But, the bottom line is, as I understand it, none of the suggested dates can be determined to absolutely correct. Just as I may suggest that Gustave is wrong, so also may he say the same for my preferred date.
  10. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    Without getting into a discussion of the actual year that Christ died, there are two issues: 1) In the time of Christ, the Passover was celebrated on a couple of different dates by the different Jewish sects. I think. I should probably look more into this. 2) Hebrew culture in that time considered the phrase "three days and t here night" to fit the Friday to Sunday schedule. It is the same type of thing as if I were to say: It has been raining cats and dogs. Few would misunderstand me.
  11. 3 points
    R. G. White

    Variations in SDA Belief

    I appreciate your perspective. The state of the SDA Church today is indeed rather sorry, but I trust that God still has His plans for its purification.
  12. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When will Iran attack our (US) fleet?

  13. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    This has gone to far ...

    Photodude: Your are correct. I was wrong. Thank you for your correction. I apologize to you for what I said that was wrong. Folks, I expect that discussion here can be frank. I am not always correct. I can be wrong. When I am wrong, I am willing to acknowledge it and apologize.
  14. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Who's fooling who?

    Thank you for your comments. I hope no one thinks I am one of those who values the SOP books over the Bible or any other writers over the Bible. But it seems to me that we as a church were especially blessed by the messages given to the church thru Sister Ellen. And after almost 2000 years with no prophets receiving visions, it is encouraging that the silence was broken. This is not to say that many others faithful to God did not receive inspiration from heaven in their work for God. I have had people who did not want to refer to SOP books saying they only wanted to read from the Bible. I find this interesting as if I took this to a logical conclusion, I would not listen to them either! Books from writers no longer with us are a way for them to remain a part of a discussion even after death. I find it interesting to be reading a chapter in the Testimonies, and every paragraph I find myself thinking that would be a good sermon. Next paragraph a different sermon. And this can go one for quite some time. There are those who refuse to quote Sister Ellen in sermons at church. This I find disturbing and I soon find they lack a bit of credibility attempting to preach in an SDA church and have no use for Sister Ellen. However, I have also known those more interested in what Sister Ellen says than what the Bible says. This is also wrong in its own way. So, there is a lot to be said for moderation and not going off deep ends on either side of the EGW writings discussion.
  15. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    The One Project

    Over the years, many false accusations have been made by people who have simply repeated false stories and not discovered the facts themselves. That is exactly what you did. Anyone falsely accused deserves better than that. All can face true criticism. None should have to face the false. You have made a false accusation. Investigate. Discover the truth. Engage in a discussion of the truth. I do not have a problem with that. I do have a problem with that which is false. So, should you.
  16. 2 points
    james423

    Lesson 13 - Turning Hearts in the End Time

    Overall Question: How does one help God turn hearts at the Time of the End? Memory Text: Malachi 4:5-6 New King James Version 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. 6 And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse. Sunday – The Prophecy of Turned Hearts Malachi 4:5-6 New Living Translation 5 “Look, I am sending you the prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord arrives. 6 His preaching will turn the hearts of fathers to their children, and the hearts of children to their fathers. Otherwise I will come and strike the land with a curse.” Matthew 11:14-15 Good News Translation 14 and if you are willing to believe their message, John is Elijah, whose coming was predicted. 15 Listen, then, if you have ears! Matthew 17:10 Common English Bible The disciples asked, “Then why do the legal experts say that Elijah must first come?” Mark 6:15 Christian Standard Bible But others said, “He’s Elijah.” Still others said, “He’s a prophet, like one of the prophets from long ago.” Luke 1:17 Easy-to-Read Version John himself will go ahead of the Lord and make people ready for his coming. He will be powerful like Elijah and will have the same spirit. He will make peace between fathers and their children. He will cause people who are not obeying God to change and start thinking the way they should. Monday – Family Reunion 1 Kings 16:29-17:24 Contemporary English Version 29 Ahab son of Omri became king of Israel in the thirty-eighth year of Asa’s rule in Judah, and he ruled twenty-two years from Samaria. 30 Ahab did more things to disobey the Lord than any king before him. 31 He acted just like Jeroboam. Even worse, he married Jezebel the daughter of King Ethbaal of Sidon and started worshiping Baal. 32 Ahab built an altar and temple for Baal in Samaria 33 and set up a sacred pole for worshiping the goddess Asherah. Ahab did more to make the Lord God of Israel angry than any king of Israel before him. 34 While Ahab was king, a man from Bethel named Hiel rebuilt the town of Jericho. But while Hiel was laying the foundation for the town wall, his oldest son Abiram died. And while he was finishing the gates, his youngest son Segub died. This happened just as the Lord had told Joshua to say many years ago. 17:1 Elijah was a prophet from Tishbe in Gilead. One day he went to King Ahab and said, “I’m a servant of the living Lord, the God of Israel. And I swear in his name that it won’t rain until I say so. There won’t even be any dew on the ground.” 2 Later, the Lord said to Elijah, 3 “Leave and go across the Jordan River so you can hide near Cherith Creek. 4 You can drink water from the creek, and eat the food I’ve told the ravens to bring you.” 5 Elijah obeyed the Lord and went to live near Cherith Creek. 6 Ravens brought him bread and meat twice a day, and he drank water from the creek. 7 But after a while, it dried up because there was no rain. 8 The Lord told Elijah, 9 “Go to the town of Zarephath in Sidon and live there. I’ve told a widow in that town to give you food.” 10 When Elijah came near the town gate of Zarephath, he saw a widow gathering sticks for a fire. “Would you please bring me a cup of water?” he asked. 11 As she left to get it, he asked, “Would you also please bring me a piece of bread?” 12 The widow answered, “In the name of the living Lord your God, I swear that I don’t have any bread. All I have is a handful of flour and a little olive oil. I’m on my way home now with these few sticks to cook what I have for my son and me. After that, we will starve to death.” 13 Elijah said, “Everything will be fine. Do what you said. Go home and fix something for you and your son. But first, please make a small piece of bread and bring it to me. 14 The Lord God of Israel has promised that your jar of flour won’t run out and your bottle of oil won’t dry up before he sends rain for the crops.” 15 The widow went home and did exactly what Elijah had told her. She and Elijah and her family had enough food for a long time. 16 The Lord kept the promise that his prophet Elijah had made, and she did not run out of flour or oil. 17 Several days later, the son of the woman who owned the house[e] got sick, and he kept getting worse, until finally he died. 18 The woman shouted at Elijah, “What have I done to you? I thought you were God’s prophet. Did you come here to cause the death of my son as a reminder that I’ve sinned against God?” 19 “Bring me your son,” Elijah said. Then he took the boy from her arms and carried him upstairs to the room where he was staying. Elijah laid the boy on his bed 20 and prayed, “Lord God, why did you do such a terrible thing to this woman? She’s letting me stay here, and now you’ve let her son die.” 21 Elijah stretched himself out over the boy three times, while praying, “Lord God, bring this boy back to life!” 22 The Lord answered Elijah’s prayer, and the boy started breathing again. 23 Elijah picked him up and carried him downstairs. He gave the boy to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive.” 24 “You are God’s prophet!” the woman replied. “Now I know that you really do speak for the Lord.” Luke 4:25-26 Easy-to-Read Version 25-26 “During the time of Elijah it did not rain in Israel for three and a half years. There was no food anywhere in the whole country. There were many widows in Israel during that time. But the fact is, Elijah was sent to none of those widows in Israel. He was sent only to a widow in Zarephath, a town in Sidon. 1 Kings 17:24 Holman Christian Standard Bible Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know you are a man of God and the Lord’s word from your mouth is true.” Tuesday – Turning Hearts at the Altar 1 Kings 18:20-45 God’s Word Translation 20 Ahab sent word to all the Israelites and brought the prophets together on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah stood up in front of all the people and asked them, “How long will you try to have it both ways? If the Lord is God, follow him; if Baal is God, follow him.” The people didn’t say a word. 22 So Elijah told the people, “I’m the only surviving prophet of the Lord, but there are 450 prophets of Baal. 23 Give us two bulls. Let the prophets of Baal choose one for themselves, cut it into pieces, lay it on the wood, but not set it on fire. I’ll do the same with the other bull. 24 “You call on the name of your gods, but I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire is the real God.” All the people answered, “That’s fine.” 25 Elijah told the prophets of Baal, “Choose one bull for yourselves. Prepare yours first, because there are more of you. Call on the name of your god, but don’t set the wood on fire.” 26 They took the bull he gave them, prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon. They said, “Baal, answer us!” But there wasn’t a sound or an answer. So they danced around the altar they had made. 27 At noon Elijah started to make fun of them. “Shout louder, since he is a god. Maybe he’s thinking, relieving himself, or traveling! Maybe he’s sleeping, and you have to wake him!” 28 So they shouted louder. They also cut themselves with swords and spears until their blood flowed. (This is what their ritual called for.) 29 In the afternoon they continued to rant and rave until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no sound, no answer, no attention given to them.30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come over here.” So all the people came to him. He rebuilt the Lord’s altar that had been torn down. 31 Elijah took 12 stones, one for each of the tribes named after Jacob’s sons. (The Lord had spoken his word to Jacob: “Your name will be Israel.”) 32 Elijah built an altar in the Lord’s name with those stones. He also made a trench that could hold 12 quarts of grain around the altar. 33 He arranged the wood, cut up the bull, and put it on the wood. 34 He said, “Fill four jars with water. Pour the water on the offering and on the wood.” Then he said, “Do it again,” and they did it again. Then he said, “Do it a third time,” and they did it a third time. 35 The water flowed around the altar, and even the trench was filled with water. 36 When it was time to offer the sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward. He said, “Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, make known today that you are God in Israel and that I’m your servant and have done all these things by your instructions. 37 Answer me, Lord! Answer me! Then these people will know that you, Lord, are God and that you are winning back their hearts.” 38 So a fire from the Lord fell down and consumed the burnt offering, wood, stones, and dirt. The fire even dried up the water that was in the trench. 39 All the people saw it and immediately bowed down to the ground. “The Lord is God!” they said. “The Lord is God!” 40 Elijah told them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let any of them escape.” The people seized them, and Elijah took them to the Kishon River and slaughtered them there. 41 Then Elijah told Ahab, “Get up, eat, and drink. It sounds like a heavy rain is coming.” 42 Ahab got up to eat and drink. Elijah went to the top of Carmel and bowed down on the ground to pray. 43 He said to his servant, “Please go back to Mount Carmel, and look toward the sea.” He went up, looked, came back, and said, “There’s nothing.” Seven times Elijah told him, “Go back.” 44 After the seventh time the servant said, “A little cloud like a man’s hand is coming from the sea.” Elijah said, “Go and tell Ahab, ‘Prepare your chariot, and leave before the rain delays you.’” 45 Gradually, the sky grew darker with clouds and wind, and there was a heavy rain. Ahab got into his chariot to go back to Jezreel. Wednesday – Turning Hearts at the Jordan Matthew 3:2,8 Common English Bible 2 “Change your hearts and lives! Here comes the kingdom of heaven!” 8 Produce fruit that shows you have changed your hearts and lives. Mark 1:4 English Standard Version John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Luke 3:3, 8-9, 11, 13-14 New International Reader’s Version 3 He went into all the countryside around the Jordan River. There he preached that people should be baptized and turn away from their sins. Then God would forgive them. 8 Live in a way that shows you have turned away from your sins. And don’t start saying to yourselves, ‘Abraham is our father.’ I tell you, God can raise up children for Abraham even from these stones. 9 The ax is already lying at the roots of the trees. All the trees that don’t produce good fruit will be cut down. They will be thrown into the fire.” 11 John answered, “Anyone who has extra clothes should share with the one who has none. And anyone who has extra food should do the same.” 13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” John told them. 14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” John replied, “Don’t force people to give you money. Don’t bring false charges against people. Be happy with your pay.” John 1:35-37 New Century Version 35 The next day John [John the Baptist] was there again with two of his followers. 36 When he saw Jesus walking by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!” 37 The two followers heard John say this, so they followed Jesus. John 3:27-30 New English Translation 27 John replied, “No one can receive anything unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but rather, ‘I have been sent before him.’ 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands by and listens for him, rejoices greatly when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. This then is my joy, and it is complete. 30 He must become more important while I become less important.” Thursday – Turning Hearts in the Last Days Luke 1:17 New International Version And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
  17. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Who's fooling who?

    In the quote below, HCH has demonstrated my previous comment as to approaching the Bible from the standpoint of imposing events in the common life today on the Bible. Any idea that the Bible has something to say about a vacation taken by a President of the United States is simply beyond belief. This approach holds the Bible up to ridicule and should be rejected by any person who believes in the Bible.
  18. 2 points
    This question is the heart of the Great Controversy. Before I turn to that may I make a comment that the logic in the question is a lot like the logics behind the American and French revolutions in the 1700s. The American Revolution was based on freedom through good laws. This is quoted by Thomas Jefferson in the rotunda of the Jefferson Memorial. And this was seen as making freedom available to all. The French Revolution was based on the idea that freedom was the absence of law. This lead to the reign of terror and the conclusion that freedom could only be trusted to the elite and that they cannot trust the common man with freedom and thus needs the elate to control the common man. As we look at the Great Controversy. God created the angels and likely life on other planets. They lived possibly billions of years, starting out with a love for God and each others, but a child's "my daddy can beat up your daddy" type of mentality. This needed to grow to a mature love. The Holy Spirit was guiding each heart. As Lucifer stood up leading worship services and seeing beings bow to pray to God it is only natural to wonder what it must be like to be God and have beings praying to you. We do similar things; what would it be like to be President. What would it be like to be a famous athlete, the home-run king, a rock star, a movie star etc. The Holy Spirit lead this natural wondering to leading Lucifer to ask excellent questions about God: What is the role between God as God and us as creatures, and Lucifer came to realize that love was a law, love for God and love for each other. This would lead to asking if God really was God and did he have a right to tell us the love him supremely and our neighbors as ourselves. What if God is only a higher life form who evolved to perfection and this idea of loving God supremely and our neighbors as ourselves was only a way to keep us in our place instead of looking out for numero uno and working ourselves to the perfection that God reached. Related to this is what happens if people decide not to love. God claims to be both just and merciful. Is it really possible to be both? For God to be just don't sinners need to die (probably God imposing a death penalty) but for God to be merciful he will have to have a way of sinners living, does that mean that the law of love is not that import after all? These were excellent questions. Lucifer and other beings could have come to understand these and it would have deepened their relationship with God. But the mystery of iniquity is why Lucifer did not look for answers. Instead he let pride take over and he just congratulated himself for being clever enough to think up these questions. God worked long with the angels and the universe. The original purpose of earth was for the angels and others to look for evidence. Now God could have just done something powerful to lay all questions a side. But freedom of choice was too important to God. He wanted them to look for hints and evidence and to make decisions based by faith step by step. There are a couple of Bible verses that point towards this such as the words translated "Without form and void" in Genesis 1 and in Genesis 2 the indication that there was a time before when man was around to cultivate the ground. But we are not given the details about this time. The waters described in Genesis 1 is also the idea of chaos. What ever happened here became chaos, but also the angels and other life forms made decisions on what they were seeing for who knows how long, but they decided which side of the Great Controversy to be on. Once that choice was made proof finally came as the Spirit of God hovered over the chaos and said "Let there be light" and there was a very special week. While the two sides were formed they were still growing. Had Lucifer and the others who sided with him just continued to experiment among themselves their hearts would have remained soft enough for God to continue to work with them. But instead they decided that they wanted to attack the newly formed beings, who were basically children. This child molestation would have needed them to harden their hearts and thus make it even harder for God to reach them. As time went by the two sides continued to make choices, as they saw the events of human history they continued to look at the hints and evidence and characters developed. History continued to the Christ event and the cross. Had Jesus not decided to go through with it that would have shown that God was indeed selfish and did not live up to the law of self sacrificing love, and therefore God could not be trusted and would have broken the life giving connection between creator and creatures. But as Jesus kept loving and allowed the sin issue to come between him and the Father and the Spirit and killing him all the life in the universe had closed their probation as they formed an unshakable decision that either nothing can make them want to leave Jesus or nothing can convince them to come to Jesus. It was only humanity that was continuing to make up our minds. But even as they closed their probation there is still growth for all eternity for the saved and until the lost finally die. This continued growth is where the investigative judgment fits in and other events. But this is what happens. We grow to either where we will rebel continuously or where nothing can shake our relationship. If your friend is married does a day come when his spouse will give up freedom of choice to be faithful to him because if she keeps her freedom of choice she will cheat on him? On his children's 21's birthday to they give up their freedom of choice otherwise they would not love their parents? Or does he on their 21st birthday give up his freedom of choice so that he can continue to love his children? (Hey, maybe we should force parents to give up their freedom of choice when the child turns 13 to get through the teen years). Just as spouses can use their freedom of choice to love and be faithful to each other, just as children can use their freedom of choice to choose to love their parents and parents to choose to love their children.
  19. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Lutherans & SDAS agree & Unite

    It is an established fact the early leaders in what became the SDA denomination were NOT Trinitarian. The comment by Gustave as to the hominid God seems to me to more reflect the thinking of Dr. Kellogg, than it does the thinking of other SDAs. It should be remembered that he went well beyond the thinking of what became the SDA denomination. As to Christ as an Archangel: As this has been developed in the SDA denomination, it is proposed that Christ, was a member of the Godhead, and was not a created being, more directly supervised the angels. In SDA thought, Lucifer was never considered to be a member of the Godhead, and was considered to be a created being, IOW, an angel. If, from that perspective, it could be found that Lucifer, was considered to be a leader among the angels (He did lead in the rebellion), I would not challenge someone who considered him to be an archangel. But, it should not be thought that SDAs consider Christ and Lucifer to be equal.
  20. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    A chill coming in American culture

    Trevor L asked in the quote below: * Yes, sinners who come to worship with us in peace should be welcomed at our services. They should be allowed to fellowship with our local members. * I am thinking right now of a family in a congregation that I attend that has a homosexual son/daughter. I only wish that the child in that family would attend every Sabbath to fellowship with us. * As to a homosexual holding membership and/or office in a local SDA congregation, that is an issue that is divisive in the SDA Church today. I do not address that issue.
  21. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Lutherans & SDAS agree & Unite

    Among the Adventists who would have a problem with the statement below, would be a woman named Ellen G. White.[/quote] [quote}. . . EGW as an inspired interpreter of Scripture as well.[/quote]
  22. 2 points
    james423

    Lesson 12 - What Have They Seen In Your House?

    Overall Question: What type of witness is your family to the world? Memory Text: 1 Peter 2:9 New Living Translation But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. Sunday – Learning from a King’s Mistake 2 Chronicles 32:25 New International Reader’s Version But Hezekiah’s heart was proud. He didn’t give thanks for the many kind things the Lord had done for him. So the Lord became angry with him. He also became angry with Judah and Jerusalem. 2 Chronicles 32:31 Good News Translation and even when the Babylonian ambassadors came to inquire about the unusual event that had happened in the land, God let Hezekiah go his own way only in order to test his character. Isaiah 38 New Century Version At that time Hezekiah became very sick; he was almost dead. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to see him and told him, “This is what the Lord says: Make arrangements, because you are not going to live, but die.” 2 Hezekiah turned toward the wall and prayed to the Lord, 3 “Lord, please remember that I have always obeyed you. I have given myself completely to you and have done what you said was right.” Then Hezekiah cried loudly. 4 Then the Lord spoke his word to Isaiah: 5 “Go to Hezekiah and tell him: ‘This is what the Lord, the God of your ancestor David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears. So I will add fifteen years to your life. 6 I will save you and this city from the king of Assyria; I will defend this city. 7 “‘The Lord will do what he says. This is the sign from the Lord to show you: 8 The sun has made a shadow go down the stairway of Ahaz, but I will make it go back ten steps.’” So the shadow made by the sun went back up the ten steps it had gone down. 9 After Hezekiah king of Judah got well, he wrote this song: 10 I said, “I am in the middle of my life. Do I have to go through the gates of death? Will I have the rest of my life taken away from me?” 11 I said, “I will not see the Lord in the land of the living again. I will not again see the people who live on the earth. 12 Like a shepherd’s tent, my home has been pulled down and taken from me. I am finished like the cloth a weaver rolls up and cuts from the loom. In one day you brought me to this end. 13 All night I cried loudly. Like a lion, he crushed all my bones. In one day you brought me to this end. 14 I cried like a bird and moaned like a dove. My eyes became tired as I looked to the heavens. Lord, I have troubles. Please help me.” 15 What can I say? The Lord told me what would happen and then made it happen. I have had these troubles in my soul, so now I will be humble all my life. 16 Lord, because of you, people live. Because of you, my spirit also lives; you made me well and let me live. 17 It was for my own good that I had such troubles. Because you love me very much, you did not let me die but threw my sins far away. 18 People in the place of the dead cannot praise you; those who have died cannot sing praises to you; those who die don’t trust you to help them. 19 The people who are alive are the ones who praise you. They praise you as I praise you today. A father should tell his children that you provide help. 20 The Lord saved me, so we will play songs on stringed instruments in the Temple of the Lord all the days of our lives. 21 Then Isaiah said, “Make a paste from figs and put it on Hezekiah’s boil. Then he will get well.” 22 Hezekiah then asked Isaiah, “What will be the sign? What will show that I will go up to the Temple of the Lord?” Isaiah 39 New Century Version At that time Merodach-Baladan son of Baladan was king of Babylon. He sent letters and a gift to Hezekiah, because he had heard that Hezekiah had been sick and was now well. 2 Hezekiah was pleased and showed the messengers what was in his storehouses: the silver, gold, spices, expensive perfumes, his swords and shields, and all his wealth. He showed them everything in his palace and in his kingdom. 3 Then Isaiah the prophet went to King Hezekiah and asked him, “What did these men say? Where did they come from?” Hezekiah said, “They came from a faraway country—from Babylon.” 4 So Isaiah asked him, “What did they see in your palace?” Hezekiah said, “They saw everything in my palace. I showed them all my wealth.” 5 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah: “Listen to the words of the Lord All-Powerful: 6 ‘In the future everything in your palace and everything your ancestors have stored up until this day will be taken away to Babylon. Nothing will be left,’ says the Lord. 7 Some of your own children, those who will be born to you, will be taken away, and they will become servants in the palace of the king of Babylon.” 8 Hezekiah told Isaiah, “These words from the Lord are good.” He said this because he thought, “There will be peace and security in my lifetime.” Monday – Family First John 1:40-42 New English Translation 40 Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two disciples who heard what John said and followed Jesus. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and told him, “We have found the Messiah!” (which is translated Christ). 42 Andrew brought Simon to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon, the son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter). Deuteronomy 6:6-7 Holman Christian Standard Bible 6 These words that I am giving you today are to be in your heart. 7 Repeat them to your children. Talk about them when you sit in your house and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Ruth 1:14-18 (see below) Ruth 1:8-22 Contemporary English Version 8 Naomi said to them, “Don’t you want to go back home to your own mothers? You were kind to my husband and sons, and you have always been kind to me. I pray that the Lord will be just as kind to you. 9 May he give each of you another husband and a home of your own.” Naomi kissed them. They cried 10 and said, “We want to go with you and live among your people.” 11 But she replied, “My daughters, why don’t you return home? What good will it do you to go with me? Do you think I could have more sons for you to marry? 12 You must go back home, because I am too old to marry again. Even if I got married tonight and later had more sons, 13 would you wait for them to become old enough to marry? No, my daughters! Life is harder for me than it is for you, because the Lord has turned against me.” 14 They cried again. Orpah kissed her mother-in-law good-by, but Ruth held on to her. 15 Naomi then said to Ruth, “Look, your sister-in-law is going back to her people and to her gods! Why don’t you go with her?” 16 Ruth answered, “Please don’t tell me to leave you and return home! I will go where you go, I will live where you live; your people will be my people, your God will be my God. 17 I will die where you die and be buried beside you. May the Lord punish me if we are ever separated, even by death!” 18 When Naomi saw that Ruth had made up her mind to go with her, she stopped urging her to go back. 19 They reached Bethlehem, and the whole town was excited to see them. The women who lived there asked, “Can this really be Naomi?” 20 Then she told them, “Don’t call me Naomi any longer! Call me Mara, because God has made my life bitter. 21 I had everything when I left, but the Lord has brought me back with nothing. How can you still call me Naomi, when God has turned against me and made my life so hard?” 22 The barley harvest was just beginning when Naomi and Ruth, her Moabite daughter-in-law, arrived in Bethlehem. Tuesday – Peace That Wins 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 Common English Bible 12 I’m telling everyone else (the Lord didn’t say this specifically): If a believer has a wife who doesn’t believe, and she agrees to live with him, then he shouldn’t divorce her. 13 If a woman has a husband who doesn’t believe and he agrees to live with her, then she shouldn’t divorce him. 14 The husband who doesn’t believe belongs to God because of his wife, and the wife who doesn’t believe belongs to God because of her husband. Otherwise, your children would be contaminated by the world, but now they are spiritually set apart. 15 But if a spouse who doesn’t believe chooses to leave, then let them leave. The brother or sister isn’t tied down in these circumstances. God has called you to peace. 1 Peter 3:1-2 Easy-to-Read Version In the same way, you wives should be willing to serve your husbands. Then, even those who have refused to accept God’s teaching will be persuaded to believe because of the way you live. You will not need to say anything. 2 Your husbands will see the pure lives that you live with respect for God. Wednesday – Family Life Is for Sharing 1 Corinthians 4:16 Common English Bible so I encourage you to follow my example. Ephesians 5:1 The Living Bible Follow God’s example in everything you do just as a much-loved child imitates his father. 1 Thessalonians 1:6 Contemporary English Version So, when you accepted the message, you followed our example and the example of the Lord. You suffered, but the Holy Spirit made you glad. Hebrews 6:12 God’s Word Translation Then, instead of being lazy, you will imitate those who are receiving the promises through faith and patience. Hebrews 13:7 Good News Translation Remember your former leaders, who spoke God's message to you. Think back on how they lived and died, and imitate their faith. 3 John 11 New International Version Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God. Jeremiah 17:9 New English Translation The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad. Who can understand it? John 2:25 New Life Version He did not need anyone to tell Him about man. He knew what was in man. Romans 3:23 English Standard Version for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Thursday – Centers of Contagious Friendliness Isaiah 58:6-7 Easy-to-Read Version 6 “I will tell you the kind of day I want—a day to set people free. I want a day that you take the burdens off others. I want a day when you set troubled people free and you take the burdens from their shoulders. 7 I want you to share your food with the hungry. I want you to find the poor who don’t have homes and bring them into your own homes. When you see people who have no clothes, give them your clothes! Don’t hide from your relatives when they need help.” Isaiah 58:10-12 New Living Translation 10 Feed the hungry, and help those in trouble. Then your light will shine out from the darkness, and the darkness around you will be as bright as noon. 11 The Lord will guide you continually, giving you water when you are dry and restoring your strength. You will be like a well-watered garden, like an ever-flowing spring. 12 Some of you will rebuild the deserted ruins of your cities. Then you will be known as a rebuilder of walls and a restorer of homes. Romans 12:13 New Century Version Share with God’s people who need help. Bring strangers in need into your homes. 1 Peter 4:9 Modern English Version Show hospitality to one another without complaining. Abraham - Genesis 18:1-8 New International Reader’s Version The Lord appeared to Abraham near the large trees of Mamre. Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent. It was the hottest time of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. So he quickly left the entrance to his tent to greet them. He bowed low to the ground. 3 He said, “My lord, if you are pleased with me, don’t pass me by. 4 Let me get you some water. Then all of you can wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat to give you strength. Then you can go on your way. I want to do this for you now that you have come to me.” “All right,” they answered. “Do as you say.” 6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick!” he said. “Get about 36 pounds of the finest flour. Prepare it and bake some bread.” 7 Then he ran over to the herd. He picked out a choice, tender calf. He gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 Then he brought some butter and milk and the calf that had been prepared. He served them to the three men. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree. Rebekah – Genesis 24:15-20 Holman Christian Standard Bible 5 Before he had finished speaking, there was Rebekah—daughter of Bethuel son of Milcah, the wife of Abraham’s brother Nahor—coming with a jug on her shoulder. 16 Now the girl was very beautiful, a young woman who had not known a man intimately. She went down to the spring, filled her jug, and came up. 17 Then the servant ran to meet her and said, “Please let me have a little water from your jug.” 18 She replied, “Drink, my lord.” She quickly lowered her jug to her hand and gave him a drink. 19 When she had finished giving him a drink, she said, “I’ll also draw water for your camels until they have had enough to drink.” 20 She quickly emptied her jug into the trough and hurried to the well again to draw water. She drew water for all his camels Genesis 24:31-33 New Century Version 31 Laban said, “Sir, you are welcome to come in; you don’t have to stand outside. I have prepared the house for you and also a place for your camels.” 32 So Abraham’s servant went into the house. After Laban unloaded the camels and gave them straw and food, he gave water to Abraham’s servant so he and the men with him could wash their feet. 33 Then Laban gave the servant food, but the servant said, “I will not eat until I have told you why I came.” So Laban said, “Then tell us.” Zacchaeus – Luke 19:1-9 New Living Translation Jesus entered Jericho and made his way through the town. 2 There was a man there named Zacchaeus. He was the chief tax collector in the region, and he had become very rich. 3 He tried to get a look at Jesus, but he was too short to see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree beside the road, for Jesus was going to pass that way. 5 When Jesus came by, he looked up at Zacchaeus and called him by name. “Zacchaeus!” he said. “Quick, come down! I must be a guest in your home today.” 6 Zacchaeus quickly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great excitement and joy. 7 But the people were displeased. “He has gone to be the guest of a notorious sinner,” they grumbled. 8 Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood before the Lord and said, “I will give half my wealth to the poor, Lord, and if I have cheated people on their taxes, I will give them back four times as much!” 9 Jesus responded, “Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.
  23. 2 points
    JoeMo

    Lutherans & SDAS agree & Unite

    Good for them! One of the SDA churches I attend rents the chapel in a Presbyterian Church. Their reason - they have more resources to give to the community and church if they don't have to pay for building and maintaining a stand-alone church.
  24. 2 points
    Kevin H

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    The Lord could have come err this. May I recommend the chapter in the SDA Bible Commentary "The Role of Israel in Old Testament History." This is a very important article we were encouraged to read in Academy, but at college it was required reading with a paper for every semester you took a Bible class (which meant that religion and theology students had to do it every semester).We have been so influenced by Fundamentalists that has such a narrow view of inspiration that we miss a lot of the message of the Bible. There are three ways we find the Bible used by other Bible writers and prophets. The first is exegesis, or it's immediate context including how God was giving that generation either the chance to finish the work (by spreading the Gospel) or to prepare things so that a generation or two later could have finished and the Lord could have set up the kingdom. For example we have in Isaiah 7 God trying to encourage the king to trust in him. He was worried about two kings. Isaiah gave a promise of a child. Matthew said that this was a prediction of Jesus. But it sounds a little crazy for Isaiah to say to the king "I know you are worried about these two kings, but in about 500 years a child will be born and before he knows right from wrong those two kings will no longer be an issue, so all you need to do is trust God and wait 500 years." Isaiah was talking about a child born in his day (but even so he was applying the child of promise that was given to Abraham, and which we can reapply to Jesus). There is a second principle of analogy, applying the principles to another similar situation. This is what Matthew is doing. This is what we do when we apply Daniel 8:14 to 1844, or when Ezekiel applies it to the end of time (and describing the end of time to how it could have ended had Jesus been accepted). Or even those involved in producing the book of Daniel to move it from the end of Babylonian about 2300 days later to applying it to the 70 weeks of years. A third way we find the Bible writers and Mrs. White using scripture is a homiletical or linguistic application. Where it is not the immediate context of exegesis or a reapplication to a similar situation, but where the words still fit. (an example is Mrs. White saying that we are preaching the law the law the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboah. ) Deuteronomy 4 predicted that the exile could have been the last days. The original setting of the 2300 days was about 2300 literal days from the end of Babylon. Daniel 9 re-applies it to the 70 week of years prophecy. Ezekiel has a 2310 day prophecy that shows how it could have been fulfilled when Jesus came. Yes, there could still be another application, but the evening-morning points to the cycles that we find in Leviticus, and 1844 was the fulfillment of the day-year application.
  25. 2 points
    Kevin H

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    Hi JoeMo: You are correct that Daniel 8:14 does not say "Day but "evening-morning." But may I say that this does NOT suggest a reference to the sacrifices and be equivalent to 1,150 days, but is actually a stronger argument for the Adventist application than if it did use the word "day". First of all, the term for the sacrifice is NOT "evening-morning", but a very technical "morning and evening". I actually read in a couple of commentaries that support the 1150 days that the author of Daniel was clearly Dyslexic because he meant to write "mornings and evenings" but he switched around the words "morning"and the word "evening" and he forgot to include the word "and" but that we have to be careful to recognize his dyslexia and not read the text as it stands but to change the text to what he meant to say. However, others recognizing that the term "evenings-morning" is very similar to the "evenings and mornings" of Genesis 1 and is thus related to the daily cycle, but that it is also emphasis to the daily cycle and should be compared to the weekly cycles that we find in Leviticus 23 and in the book of Deuteronomy. In Leviticus 23 a Hebrew week is 6 days and the weekly Sabbath, 6 months and either Passover or Yom Kippur, 6 years and the Sabbatical year, and 6 Sabbatical years and the Jubilee. Thus an evening-morning is a reference to the daily cycle of this and can be a literal day, month, year or sabbatical year. However Daniel is based on Deuteronomy which does not have the Jubilee as it is in Leviticus. Everything that happens in the Jubilee in Leviticus occurs in the Sabbatical year of Deuteronomy, thus while it can relate to the Jubilee it would not allow for 2300 sabbatical years. Anyway, another reason why we can say that it should not be 1150 days is by looking at the text. The vision was given in the 3rd year of Belshazzar. Now it was not until the 20th century that we learned that Belshazzar was indeed a real person. The 1150 days comes from the theory that Daniel did not exist and the book was written to deal with the issue of Antiochus Epiphanes and the wrong but wishful thinking that he would only have power for 1150 days. (they see the 2300 days as too long, the 1150 days are actually too short, but fit a little bit better than the 2300, and they can point out that it was only wishful thinking.) But now we know that Belshazzar was indeed a real person and we know what years he ruled. Now we only have the year to go by, but if you start with the third year of Belshazzar and add 1150 literal days to it you come to a year of business as usual. However if you start with the third year of Belshazzar and add 2300 days to it you come to the year that includes Medio-Persia approaching Babylon, Behshazzar's feast, and the early days of the Medio-Persia empire. Also, if you hold the early date of the exodus, Yom Kippur 1844 ends a cycle of 7 Sabbatical years and the start of a Jubilee. And what was happening on the earth at this time was that the Rosetta stone had recently been translated opening up ancient languages, and Edward Robinson just completed his first trip to the Holy Land and had just published his book of the trip. This was the first serious study in Bible Geography which opened the door to Biblical Geography and archaeology, it was the dawning of the age of exegesis. A time where we get to investigate the pages of scripture like never before.
  26. 2 points
    JoeMo

    To Consider

    Sometimes when people ask if I'm a Christian, I ask them what do you mean by Christian?" After they respond (frequently in a denominational manner), I say "yeah, a little bit". That tends to arouse their curiosity and leads to me telling them that I believe what I read in the Bible with as little denominational bias as possible. Then (sometimes) we can have a Bible-based discussion rather than a debate or argument.
  27. 2 points
    james423

    Lesson 11 - Families of Faith

    Overall Question: What are some Bible stories about families "of faith"? Memory Text: Hebrews 12:1-2 New Living Translation Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne. Sunday – “Hold Fast What Is Good” Acts 10:1-28 New International Version At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!” 4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.” 7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8 He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa. 9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” 14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. 17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there. 19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.” 21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?” 22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests. The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. 24 The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.” 27 While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. Acts 10:34-35 Modern English Version 34 Then Peter began to speak, saying, “Truthfully, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. 35 But in every nation he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. Acts 15:19-20 Common English Bible 19 “Therefore, I conclude that we shouldn’t create problems for Gentiles who turn to God. 20 Instead, we should write a letter, telling them to avoid the pollution associated with idols, sexual immorality, eating meat from strangled animals, and consuming blood. Acts 15:28-29 Easy-to-Read Version 28 We agree with the Holy Spirit that you should have no more burdens, except for these necessary things: 29 Don’t eat food that has been given to idols. Don’t eat meat from animals that have been strangled or any meat that still has the blood in it. Don’t be involved in sexual sin. If you stay away from these, you will do well. We say goodbye now. 1 Corinthians 2:2 English Standard Version For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 Contemporary English Version 21 Put everything to the test. Accept what is good 22 and don’t have anything to do with evil. Monday – The Power of Culture on Family Genesis 18:19 God’s Word Translation I have chosen him so that he will direct his children and his family after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just. In this way I, the Lord, will do what I have promised Abraham.” Genesis 16:1-3 New Century Version Sarai, Abram’s wife, had no children, but she had a slave girl from Egypt named Hagar. 2 Sarai said to Abram, “Look, the Lord has not allowed me to have children, so have sexual relations with my slave girl. If she has a child, maybe I can have my own family through her.” Abram did what Sarai said. 3 It was after he had lived ten years in Canaan that Sarai gave Hagar to her husband Abram. (Hagar was her slave girl from Egypt.) Genesis 35:1-4 Holman Christian Standard Bible God said to Jacob, “Get up! Go to Bethel and settle there. Build an altar there to the God who appeared to you when you fled from your brother Esau.” 2 So Jacob said to his family and all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods that are among you. Purify yourselves and change your clothes. 3 We must get up and go to Bethel. I will build an altar there to the God who answered me in my day of distress. He has been with me everywhere I have gone.”4 Then they gave Jacob all their foreign gods and their earrings, and Jacob hid them under the oak near Shechem. Ezra 10:1-17 New English Translation While Ezra was praying and confessing, weeping and throwing himself to the ground before the temple of God, a very large crowd of Israelites—men, women, and children alike—gathered around him. The people wept loudly. 2 Then Shecaniah son of Jehiel, from the descendants of Elam, addressed Ezra: “We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the local peoples. Nonetheless, there is still hope for Israel in this regard. 3 Therefore let us enact a covenant with our God to send away all these women and their offspring, in keeping with your counsel, my lord, and that of those who respect the commandments of our God. And let it be done according to the law. 4 Get up, for this matter concerns you. We are with you, so be strong and act decisively!” 5 So Ezra got up and made the leading priests and Levites and all Israel take an oath to carry out this plan. And they all took a solemn oath. 6 Then Ezra got up from in front of the temple of God and went to the room of Jehohanan son of Eliashib. While he stayed there, he did not eat food or drink water, for he was in mourning over the infidelity of the exiles. 7 A proclamation was circulated throughout Judah and Jerusalem that all the exiles were to be assembled in Jerusalem. 8 Everyone who did not come within three days would thereby forfeit all his property, in keeping with the counsel of the officials and the elders. Furthermore, he himself would be excluded from the assembly of the exiles. 9 All the men of Judah and Benjamin were gathered in Jerusalem within the three days. (It was in the ninth month, on the twentieth day of that month.) All the people sat in the square at the temple of God, trembling because of this matter and because of the rains. 10 Then Ezra the priest stood up and said to them, “You have behaved in an unfaithful manner by taking foreign wives! This has contributed to the guilt of Israel. 11 Now give praise to the Lord God of your fathers, and do his will. Separate yourselves from the local residents and from these foreign wives.” 12 All the assembly replied in a loud voice: “We will do just as you have said! 13 However, the people are numerous and it is the rainy season. We are unable to stand here outside. Furthermore, this business cannot be resolved in a day or two, for we have sinned greatly in this matter. 14 Let our leaders take steps on behalf of all the assembly. Let all those in our towns who have married foreign women come at an appointed time, and with them the elders of each town and its judges, until the hot anger of our God is turned away from us in this matter.” 15 Only Jonathan son of Asahel and Jahzeiah son of Tikvah were against this, assisted by Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite. 16 So the exiles proceeded accordingly. Ezra the priest separated out by name men who were leaders in their family groups. They sat down to consider this matter on the first day of the tenth month, 17 and on the first day of the first month they finished considering all the men who had married foreign wives. 1 Kings 11:1 The Living Bible King Solomon married many other girls besides the Egyptian princess. Many of them came from nations where idols were worshiped—Moab, Ammon, Edom, Sidon, and from the Hittites. Tuesday – Sustaining Families Through Seasons of Change Genesis 12:1-5 English Standard Version Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. 5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people that they had acquired in Haran, and they set out to go to the land of Canaan. When they came to the land of Canaan Esther 2:7-9 Christian Standard Bible Mordecai was the legal guardian of his cousin Hadassah (that is, Esther), because she had no father or mother. The young woman had a beautiful figure and was extremely good-looking. When her father and mother died, Mordecai had adopted her as his own daughter. 8 When the king’s command and edict became public knowledge and when many young women were gathered at the fortress of Susa under Hegai’s supervision, Esther was taken to the palace, into the supervision of Hegai, keeper of the women. 9 The young woman pleased him and gained his favor so that he accelerated the process of the beauty treatments and the special diet that she received. He assigned seven hand-picked female servants to her from the palace and transferred her and her servants to the harem’s best quarters. Daniel 1 New Living Translation (selected verses) 3 Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, his chief of staff, to bring to the palace some of the young men of Judah’s royal family and other noble families, who had been brought to Babylon as captives. 4 “Select only strong, healthy, and good-looking young men,” he said. “Make sure they are well versed in every branch of learning, are gifted with knowledge and good judgment, and are suited to serve in the royal palace. Train these young men in the language and literature of Babylon.” 5 The king assigned them a daily ration of food and wine from his own kitchens. They were to be trained for three years, and then they would enter the royal service. 6 Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah were four of the young men chosen, all from the tribe of Judah. 8 But Daniel was determined not to defile himself by eating the food and wine given to them by the king. He asked the chief of staff for permission not to eat these unacceptable foods. 9 Now God had given the chief of staff both respect and affection for Daniel. 10 But he responded, “I am afraid of my lord the king, who has ordered that you eat this food and wine. If you become pale and thin compared to the other youths your age, I am afraid the king will have me beheaded.” 11 Daniel spoke with the attendant who had been appointed by the chief of staff to look after Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 12 “Please test us for ten days on a diet of vegetables and water,” Daniel said. 13 “At the end of the ten days, see how we look compared to the other young men who are eating the king’s food. Then make your decision in light of what you see.” 14 The attendant agreed to Daniel’s suggestion and tested them for ten days. 15 At the end of the ten days, Daniel and his three friends looked healthier and better nourished than the young men who had been eating the food assigned by the king. 16 So after that, the attendant fed them only vegetables instead of the food and wine provided for the others. 17 God gave these four young men an unusual aptitude for understanding every aspect of literature and wisdom. And God gave Daniel the special ability to interpret the meanings of visions and dreams. 18 When the training period ordered by the king was completed, the chief of staff brought all the young men to King Nebuchadnezzar. 19 The king talked with them, and no one impressed him as much as Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. So they entered the royal service. 20 Whenever the king consulted them in any matter requiring wisdom and balanced judgment, he found them ten times more capable than any of the magicians and enchanters in his entire kingdom. Wednesday – Toward a First-Generation Faith Judges 2:7-13 New Life Version 7 The people served the Lord all the days of Joshua and all the days of the leaders who lived longer than Joshua and who had seen all the great works the Lord had done for Israel. 8 Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died when he was 110 years old. 9 They buried him within his land in Timnath-heres, in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Mount Gaash. 10 All the people of that day died. The children who came after them did not know the Lord. They did not know about the things He had done for Israel. 11 Then the people of Israel sinned in the eyes of the Lord. They served the Baals, the gods of the Canaanites. 12 They turned away from the Lord, the God of their fathers, Who had brought them out of the land of Egypt. They followed other gods of the nations around them, and worshiped them. So they made the Lord angry. 13 They turned away from the Lord and served Baal and the Ashtaroth. John 1:12-13 New Life Version 12 He gave the right and the power to become children of God to those who received Him. He gave this to those who put their trust in His name. 13 These children of God were not born of blood and of flesh and of man’s desires, but they were born of God. John 3:7 Lexham English Bible Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘It is necessary for you to be born from above. 1 John 5:1 English Standard Version Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. Thursday – Twenty-First-Century Runners Matthew 28:5-7 Contemporary English Version 5 The angel said to the women, “Don’t be afraid! I know you are looking for Jesus, who was nailed to a cross. 6 He isn’t here! God has raised him to life, just as Jesus said he would. Come, see the place where his body was lying. 7 Now hurry! Tell his disciples that he has been raised to life and is on his way to Galilee. Go there, and you will see him. That is what I came to tell you.” John 3:16 Common English Bible God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him won’t perish but will have eternal life. Romans 1:16-17 J.B. Phillips New Testament 16-17 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel. I see it as the very power of God working for the salvation of everyone who believes it, both Jew and Greek. I see in it God’s plan for imparting righteousness to men, a process begun and continued by their faith. For, as the scripture says: ‘The just shall live by faith’. 1 Corinthians 2:2 Easy-to-Read Version I decided that while I was with you I would forget about everything except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21 New International Reader’s Version 18 All this is from God. He brought us back to himself through Christ’s death on the cross. And he has given us the task of bringing others back to him through Christ. 19 God was bringing the world back to himself through Christ. He did not hold people’s sins against them. God has trusted us with the message that people may be brought back to him. 20 So we are Christ’s official messengers. It is as if God were making his appeal through us. Here is what Christ wants us to beg you to do. Come back to God! 21 Christ didn’t have any sin. But God made him become sin for us. So we can be made right with God because of what Christ has done for us.
  28. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    * Gustave has correctly cited EGW's statement. She did believe that Christ was crucified in the Spring of 31 AD. * The 33 AD date that Gustave proposes has been a popular date that goes back to the 13th century and was proposed by Roger Bacon. It is a date often found in the margins of the KJV Bibles. * This 33 AD date is based in part upon the assumption that the Jewish calendar of the 1st century AD was exactly the same as the revised version that has come to us today. * As I understand it, this assumption has some conflicts with what we know about the a needed coordination with a Babylonian cycle at that time and also with the Elephantine papyri. * An AD 30 date has been popular among some Christians today. However, this date would not have had a Friday Passover with a Nisan date in April. * Gustave has some support for his proposed Nisan date in 31 AD. But, it is not conclusive, in my opinion. * A major problem is that actually a date can not be conclusively established by either astronomical or calendrical data. * One of the issues is that we can not be positive as to the exact boundaries of the lunar calendar system used by the 1st century Jews. * Some SDAs will consider their understanding of the prophecy of the 2300 days to be a factor to be considered in the date of the crucifixion. This is circular reasoning. Further, in my opinion, this view is based upon one understanding of the 2300 days when in actual fact that 2300 day prophecy may allow for some additional understandings. IOW, I am not going to tie the "midst of the week" to a rigid, concrete specified number of days. If I were to say that I will telephone you in the middle of next week, that might mean Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. It would not be limited to Wednesday. * The bottom line, in my opinion is: The exact date for the crucifixion can not be determined with certainty. All proposed dates are based upon some assumptions/conjectures. This is not an issue of salvation. No important Biblical doctrine is based upon a determination of the exact date for the crucifixion of Christ. NOTE: This is an exceedingly complex issue. There is much that can be said that I have not posted due to space limitations.
  29. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Variations in SDA Belief

    Ah, your recent post give credence to your selection of "Aliensanctuary" as the name under which you post.
  30. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Who's fooling who?

    To subtract 457 from the 2300 figure to obtain a date of 1843 is a common mistake that is made by people who do not understand the BC/AD dating system that we have today. That actual data obtained by such is not 1843. Ignorance of the issue involved here can not be excused as a technical issue that should only be expected to be known by scholars. This issue has been published so widely that we can expect that everyone who comments on this date would be aware of the issue and make the appropriate adjustment to the date obtained. The actual date is 1844. The adjustment that is required to be made is due to the fact that there is not a "zero year" that exists between a BC and an AD date. The following website is one place where one can become informed as to this issue. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_zero NOTE: My comment here is NOT focused on HCH. He has quoted from people who have used the 1843 date as well as the 1844 date.
  31. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    There is a problem with the post above that APL made a few posts back: Many SDAs, who present that argument in doing so engage in circular reasoning.
  32. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    Seventh-day Adventist scholars have generally believed that the exact date for the crucifixion of Christ can not be absolutely determined. * They have ruled out a date founded in ancient tradition of 29 CE (AD) * They have generally held that the crucifixion probably occurred during either 30 CE, or 31 CE or 33 CE. * As early as the 13th century, the crucifixion was thought to have occurred in 33 CE. Today, this is a minority view. The evidence is considered strong for a rejection of this view. Part of the reason for the rejection of this is that it was based upon what we now believe to be a faulty understanding of the Jewish calendar. There are also other reasons for rejecting t his date. * CE 30 has probably been the most common current belief as to the crucifixion. But, this date is based upon some assumptions that are rejected by some scholars. * CE 31 has more generally been accepted as the date for the crucifixion by SDA scholars. * However, the data is not conclusive. The actual date can not be established from what we know about the lunar-calendar system of the Jews. My personal position is: 1) We do not conclusively know. 2) I am comfortable with and date in the 30 - 33 range. 3) This is not an important issue that matters. 4) In my personal ministry I lean toward the 31 date.
  33. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When Was Jesus Crucified?

    It does not add up as we understand it. I can refer you to 5SDABC, 1980 edition, pages 248 through 251, which provides an extensive discussion of this issue. I Do not think that I could give a good summation of what it says there in a post here.
  34. 2 points
    R. G. White

    Establishing the Law: Romans 3:31

    Of course your analysis is correct. Jesus would die for the sins of mankind, regardless. Nevertheless, Stephen, when on trial before the Sanhedrin, the representatives of the Jewish nation, called them the "betrayers and murderers" of "the Just One." What's sad is not the outcome, but the rebellion and murder that was in their hearts. Stephen was, of course, pointing it out for a good purpose, in order to bring them to repentance. We are ALL guilty of the blood of Christ. There is absolutely no ground for looking down on the Jewish nation, who are prophesied to eventually repent as a people. That's more than can be said for many who judge and look down upon others.
  35. 2 points
    JoeMo

    Variations in SDA Belief

    If we lose our free will, we will cease to be the sentient divine imagers that we were created to be. Without our free will, we are simply robots fueled by vegeburger and broccoli. If we are "programmed" to love, trust and obey, are we really voluntarily following God?
  36. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Notice to All

    The Wanderer and I communicate off this site. He has left Adventistan. But he sent this message: "I should have mentioned that the reason I have left the forum is not because I was asked to, its just something I felt I needed to do. Although I have had a number of unpleasant experiences there which were already making me rethink what I do online, I felt I needed to devote more time & energy to my studies in Linux certification, web design & photography. You can keep an eye on my developing web site skills at https://lightintheclouds.ca/
  37. 2 points
    james423

    Lesson 10 - Little Times of Trouble

    Overall Question: What should we do when times of conflict arise? Memory Text: Ephesians 4:26 New Living Translation And “don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry, Sunday – Conflict Matthew 7:5 New Century Version You hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to take the dust out of your friend’s eye. Matthew 7:5 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES the readiest way to judge of the imperfections of others is to be free from greater ones ourselves. This qualifies us for judging, makes us candid and consistent, and enables us to see things as they are, and to make proper allowances for frailty and imperfection. Proverbs 19:11 Good News Translation If you are sensible, you will control your temper. When someone wrongs you, it is a great virtue to ignore it. Proverbs 19:11 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY Discretion teaches us to defer our anger, to defer the admission of it till we have thoroughly considered all the merits of the provocation, seen them in a true light and weighed them in a just balance; and then to defer the prosecution of it till there be no danger of running into any indecencies. Monday – Some Principles for Marriage Ephesians 1:7 God’s Word Translation Through the blood of his Son, we are set free from our sins. God forgives our failures because of his overflowing kindness. Romans 3:23 Common English Bible All have sinned and fall short of God’s glory. Romans 3:23 SDA BIBLE COMMENTARY Paul is urging Jews and Gentiles alike to recognize the vital fact that all the evidence of experience and history clearly proves that fallen man, with his depraved nature, is wholly incapable of fulfilling the requirements of God’s law and of establishing his own righteousness. The only possible way to obtain righteousness is by faith in Jesus Christ. By this experience of faith men are once again brought into a right relation with God, new hearts are created within them, and they are thus enabled by faith to live once again in obedience to God’s law. Philippians 2:4-8 Christian Standard Bible 4 Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Adopt the same attitude as that of Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited. 7 Instead he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taking on the likeness of humanity. And when he had come as a man, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death—even to death on a cross. Tuesday – The Role of Anger in Conflict Ephesians 4:26-27 Easy-to-Read Version 26 “When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. 27 Don’t give the devil a way to defeat you. Ephesians 4:26 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE Do not go to sleep with any unkind or unbrotherly feeling; anger, continued in, may produce malice and revenge. No temper of this kind can consist with peace of conscience, and the approbation of God's Spirit in the soul. Ecclesiastes 7:9 Contemporary English Version Only fools get angry quickly and hold a grudge. James 1:19-20 Holman Christian Standard Bible 19 My dearly loved brothers, understand this: Everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20 for man’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness. Wednesday – Conflict, Abuse, Power, and Control 1 John 4:7-8 New Living Translation 7 Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. 8 But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:8 SDA BIBLE COMMENTARY love is set forth as an essential quality or attribute of God…He who does not love proves that he is not personally acquainted with the basic quality in God’s nature…when we learn that God is love, fear is replaced by trust, and we confidingly place ourselves in the hands of our heavenly Father, knowing that He careth for us. Colossians 3:19 Modern English Version Husbands, love your wives, and do not be bitter toward them. Thursday – Forgiveness and Peace Matthew 7:12 New International Reader’s Version In everything, do to others what you would want them to do to you. This is what is written in the Law and in the Prophets. Matthew 7:12 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES This command has been usually called the Saviour's golden rule, a name given to it on account of its great value. All that you expect or desire of others in similar circumstances, do to them. Act not from selfishness or injustice, but put yourself in the place of the other, and ask what you would expect of him then. This would make you impartial, and candid, and just. It would destroy avarice, envy, treachery, unkindness, slander, theft, adultery, and murder. It has been well said, that this law is what the balance-wheel is to machinery. It would prevent all irregularity of movement in the moral world, as that does in a steam-engine. It is easily applied, its justice is seen by all men, and all must acknowledge its force and value.
  38. 2 points
    Lone Ranger

    Variations in SDA Belief

    IMO... I believe there is another class of people regarding views on the sabbath, that being those legitimate, sincere God-fearing Christians who HAVE studied the question, sincerely and deeply, and have NOT come to the conclusion that God requires 7th-day observance, based on evidence they feel is stronger.
  39. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Who's fooling who?

    Certainly we will be held accountable for any rejection of an attempt by the Holy Spirit to teach us. If we refuse to be taught by the Holy Spirit, that is a rejection of God. But, my salvation does not in any way depend upon my lack of study in a direction that does not come from the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit does not lead me to study the Satanic Bible, my failure to study that book will not result in my loss of salvation. In the same sense, if the Holy Spirit does not lead me to study a message from HCH, my failure to study his message will not lead to my loss of my salvation.
  40. 2 points
    JoeMo

    Variations in SDA Belief

    Just because SDA evangelists have been preaching it for over 150 years doesn't make it true. The sea beast isn't "obviously" the papacy; although I will concede it might be). Concerning the "deadly wound" which was healed, another alternative could the Ottoman Empire (aka the Islamic Caliphate) which was officially dissolved in the 1920's; and seems to be roaring back in the same areas it ruled for over 1,000 years; and seems to be spreading all over the world faster than any other religion. Muslims will outnumber Christians by 2050 by birth rate alone; earlier with conversions. It's deadly wound is healed as well. IMHO, it is time for Christians to quit criticizing and attacking each other and unite under our common beliefs in Christ an Creator, the Son of God, and Savior. If we continue to fight each other instead of on the increasing hostile acts against Christian in general that are rapidly developing all over the world (including in North America and Western Europe), we will be overwhelmed in the end times. In fact, scripture says the church will be overwhelmed: “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. (Dan. 8:23-25) "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them." (Rev .13:6-7) SDA's will not be the only ones saved in the end times; and the Sabbath will not be the major end-time issue.
  41. 2 points
    pierrepaul

    Variations in SDA Belief

    I would agree. I would also suggest that the persecutor of the saints might again change identity before earth's history closes.
  42. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Variations in SDA Belief

    I found I had an easier time having Sabbaths off when I did not work for SDA institutions. Can you imagine asking your superviser at Loma Linda for the Sabbath off? When I worked at one non-Adventist hospital where we had self-scheduling, I maybe had to work one Sabbath a year! Another one once amonth. Actually, the Bible does not actually prohibit polygamy. You just cannot be a leader of the church with more than one wife. This becomes an issue if you are doing missionary work in a country where polygamy exists. Would you really ask the man to cut loose some of his wives who have made their lives with him and his family? Maybe you could make a case for no more wives.
  43. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Who's fooling who?

    The White Estate has the Bible that it is said that EGW held above her head. It has been weighed at 18 1/2 pounds. That is less than the 3 gallons of milk that HCH says is the minimum that the Bible weighs. It is far less than the 40 pounds that has been alleged to be its weight. What this demonstrates is that even if there is some truth in this myth, there is also error. The story that we have today can not be depended upon.
  44. 2 points
    stinsonmarri

    Who's fooling who?

    Joe: I miss this and you are correct, there are Blacks who hate and are dangerous as well. But, in defense of black folks hatred is mainly because of how we have been treated. However, that does not justify hurting or killing anyone! That's what happened to me, and I only hurt my own people. Even using the N-word was bringing my people and myself down as well! Nothing good comes from hatred and the best example is Satan hating HIS CREATOR because HE wanted HIS CREATOR to make HIM equal with HIS SON! I am mortified over the words "picnic over grill?" I have never heard of such in my life! That got me friend. There are times when people will get angry over the stupidest things for no reason. I have been saying picnic all of my life and will continue to do so! You know ignorance is bliss and that's with all people, nation and tongues brother. I get on by black folks for some of their ridiculous reasons to blame everything on European or White people. You have to do your part in society yourself, no one is better than the other period! Yes, I stand up for the wrong and the untrue history about Ham's children, and I also stand up for the justice of Japheth children who die so I can be free! I will never forget that and none of us should! Love is colorful and is spreads joy to all. I think of people as I do flowers or fruit, even the different shades of the sky! We are a rainbow of love and that is where I stand and to be truthful to everyone! Oh! I wish I could have come to your picnic! Blessings!
  45. 2 points
    phkrause

    The Sisterhood Book Club

    Rebbetzin Rosen was trying to come up with an appropriate booklist for the new book club she was starting with the sisterhood at the shul so she decided to canvas some of the members about their favorite books. The Rebbetzin asked Shirley Cohen, "Which book has helped you most in your life?" Shirley replied, "My husband's check book!!"
  46. 2 points
    pierrepaul

    Variations in SDA Belief

    The following is from my personal experience. Since SDA membership is a local congregation matter, practice varies from congregation to congregation. Alcohol - I know of no congregation that disfellowshipped members for alcohol consumption. But they would be excluded from leadership positions. I suppose though, were a member to be "in your face" about it, such as ordering wine at the restaurant with other members, bringing beer to the church-family picnic or pouring a scotch for oneself during a pastoral visit, the congregation would likely take disciplinary action. I wouldn't recommend bringing one's own fermented wine to communion. Working on the Sabbath - again likely this would exclude one from leadership positions, but I doubt the church body would be moved to disfellowship. But if one is being disruptive, such as taking business calls on sabbath and loudly discussing and negotiating business matters on the phone during the Sabbath fellowship luncheon, the congregation may take action. I wouldn't recommend passing out business cards and advertisements in the church lobby after the service. Trinitarianism - no one cares if you keep your views to yourself. But if you're disrupting sabbath school with anti-trinitarian views, and if during sabbath afternoon fellowship you won't shut up about arianism or whatever one's pet theory is, the congregation may take action. Transsubstantiation - if you keep your beliefs to yourself, no one will care. If, during communion you yell out "hoc est corpus meum", the congregation may take action. Infant baptism - if you baptize your baby at home, no one will really care. But if during a baby dedication you rush to the front of the church to sprinkle the baby with water before the deacons can intercept you and wrestle you to the ground, the congregation may take action. Multiple wives - sex, divorce, adultery, etc. are about the only things that I've seen resulting in a disfellowshipping. I believe few congregations in North America would countenance polygamy. EGW - I've known many SDAs who don't acknowledge EGW as a prophet. As long as they don't disrupt sabbath school class or pester people with their pet theories, no one cares.
  47. 2 points
    JoeMo

    Variations in SDA Belief

    I don't think that the SDA church was a false movement at all - any more than I think the Protestant Reformation was a false movement. Martin Luther was a beer-swilling Jew hater; yet, he is considered the originator of the protestant reformation (and rightly so). One sign of the end is that knowledge will increase; and IMHO that includes spiritual knowledge. The establishment of the SDA Church was just one more step in the progression of God's people. But ... as in all religions that reach "critical mass", the church has become a business rather than an outreach; so solvency is as or more important than keeping up with the signs of the times.
  48. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Variations in SDA Belief

    I think the average Israelite knew much more about what the temple services were all about than we think. They had Moses to teach them and he was one who spent a lot of time with God face to face learning all about what the Sanctuary was all about. While the Bible is very descriptive of the temple and its furniture, I see no reason why Moses would not have had very detailed instructions in the meanings of the temple services. The Closed Door is not really one of our beliefs today. However, End of Probation and Investigative Judgement are very much a part of the Scriptures. And the "absolute sinless perfection of God's Church" I also believe is very much a part of Scripture. If they are not part of Scripture, it does not matter who is promoting it, it would be a spurious teaching that should not be a part of our belief system. You just have to look for it. I do not believe the early pioneers of our church were wrong in those beliefs.
  49. 2 points
    R. G. White

    Variations in SDA Belief

    Thank you for speaking out against the low insinuations. I am now being slandered for doing so, but I'm not even going to bother reading the whole comment. It is enough for a servant to be (slandered) like his Master. Indeed it is an honour. Of course Ellen White was not infallible as a person. None of the prophets was perfect. They did speak for God, but neither you nor I should accept a doctrine just because Sister White taught it. That was not the purpose of her writings. I accept the SDA explanation of the disappointment because it rings true. Their error was the assumption that the earth is the sanctuary -- an assumption also shared by their opponents, a fact which suggests that no one had a good reason to reject the message. Biblically, the earth is not the sanctuary. There is a sanctuary in heaven, to the activities of which God apparently wishes to call our attention. You ask: "Is the SDA sanctuary message really so important as to be salvational?" Honestly, I don't think we have any business trying to answer such a question concerning any true Bible doctrine. If it's true, we should accept it. Then maybe once we've shown our honesty, the importance of the matter will eventually dawn on us. Why would God raise up an entire movement (you do favour the SDA Church, I understand) in order to preach something that doesn't matter? Indeed, what could matter more to us, right now, than what Jesus is doing for us in heaven?
  50. 2 points
    Bravus

    A chill coming in American culture

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Trevor. My perspective is not especially formed by the fact that I live on the Gold Coast. I've lived here for 7 years, but before that, in reverse chronological order: Brisbane, Australia - 6 years Edmonton, Canada - 5 years Perth, Australia - 6 years Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea - 2 years Sydney, Australia - 1 year Melbourne, Australia - 3 years Cooranbong, Australia - 20 years Sydney, Australia - 6 years Including the excluded is right everywhere, not just in the Gold Coast.
If you find some value to this community, please help out with a few dollars per month.



×
×
  • Create New...