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Showing content with the highest reputation since 01/17/2019 in Posts

  1. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    A Former Schoolmate Appeals to Dan Jackson

    Comments: 1) Ellen White grew in her doctrinal understandings in the same manner that we humans grow. We grow by prayer, Bible study and the experiences of life. So did she. God did not intervene to immediately correct her in every element of her doctrinal understanding that failed to fully reflect the truth of God. As humans it is only in eternity that we will fully understand God. It will not be in this human life. 2) A study of the life and doctrinal understanding of Ellen White will show that over time her doctrinal understandings changed in a number of areas. 3) Much of the individual advice that she gave specific people represented a specific application of a basic principle to their situation and not a generalized application to be applied to all people in all situations. Many people err in failing to understand this. They fail to understand why she may seem to tell one person to do something that she seems to tell another person not to do. 4) God did not give the ministry of Ellen white to the fledgling SDA denomination to replace the Bible as an instructional guide to understanding God. The Bible fills that role, not Ellen White. God gave Ellen White to this denomination to administratively guide it in its developing years. We would not be the denomination that we are today if it had not been for the ministry of Ellen White. 5) In my personal opinion, we have people, who I will not name in this post, who in rejecting the administrative advice of Ellen White, are attempting to form this denomination into a structure that rejects the advice that God gave us through her ministry. In addition, I believe that such fails to prepare us as a denomination for the events that we believe will happen in End Time. 6) These are serious times. As I believe that some of the problems that exist in the SDA denomination are beyond human resolution, I can only wait to see how God will lead and the direction that will take, if God does lead us beyond those issues, which I am uncertain that God will do.
  2. 4 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Satan, you are so ...

    yeppers... he lets *humans* do the most of his dirty work.
  3. 3 points
    The Wanderer

    Satan, you are so ...

    sometimes, its not "power" that he uses, but rather, deception: seems to be his MO
  4. 3 points
    B/W Photodude

    The Days of Wine And Roses

    By "Unfiltered", I mean they are untouched by anyone else messing with them such as comments out of context, those who are now engaged in rewriting to change genders to fit a new social agenda, books put out with themes thought up by the compiler and filled with out of context quotes, and other such misuse of the SOP. Speaking of Mrs. White's writings being superior to the Bible, here is a scenario which represents that well. It is a true occurrence and the names are "changed" to protect the guilty! Commenter: (A Bible text was quoted in a discussion and the text not really important) Respondent: "Yes, but what does Mrs. White say?" Knowing the "respondents" usual take on religious topics, further discussion became useless.
  5. 3 points
    Kevin H

    The Days of Wine And Roses

    I received a message asking about the "ill fated Testimony # 11" and was asked to reply in a message to not change the direction of the thread. I then came back here and was reading the other posts and I feel that the answer would fit in with this thread. Once in Battle Creek, when James was on a long trip, doctors came to Mrs. White and asked about the things she saw in vision about our health work. Among the things she discussed was seeing a good sized building with towers. This lead to a huge fundraising campaign to raise money for this building. The testimony was published and spread around and work on the building was started. Loans were taken out to help as the pledges came in. When James came home and found out what was happening he realized that the church was not yet financially able to finance this building. He ordered the building to be torn down and the materials sold off even at a loss, and to repay the loans. Members were shocked in how can James rebel against a message from God. Another issue was the reform dress. Mrs. White described what she saw. Members began latching on each and every detail, even measuring distance of the skirt from the ground, and Mrs. White was bombarded with letters asking for more detail and specifics trying to make the reform dress exactly perfect as the divine inspired message was commanding God's people to do.
  6. 3 points
    B/W Photodude

    Should Footwashing Be Practiced As a Means of Grace Within the Church?

    Jesus set us the example and told us to do as He had done to us. I saw that the example of Christ should be as exactly followed as possible. (Material related to inter-gender foot washing deleted) EGW Letters & Manuscripts: vol. 1, p396 I would disagree that there is no symbolic meaning to the foot washing. One of my favorite preachers to listen to described the Lord's supper and the events leading up to it. He noted that the "towel" Jesus girded himself with to wipe the feet of the disciples was actually a part of his garment he was wearing. So, as he washed their feet, he was actually wiping the dirt off of their feet onto himself. Symbolically, he compared this to Jesus actually taking our sins and our dirt onto himself. Part of the shame that he despised. We are fortunate that most people come to church with relatively clean feet. I have never gone to foot washing and found someone's feet to be dirty. But consider Jesus washing the feet of the disciples. They are said to have worn sandal like footwear and walked long distances during the day over dusty roads. Imagine the dirt on their feet! I guess one of the reasons it does not bother me is that after a long career of caring for people, some of whom were scraped up off the street in skid row and brought to the hospital. Sometimes, when cleaning them up, I would remove their socks, which would literally fall apart as they came off, and then wash their feet which probably had not seen light or open air for weeks! I suspicion that most people do not really keep a running memory of what the feet of their foot washing ceremony partner looked like. I see no reason really for being ashamed of what your feet look like. Everyone has seen someone with some condition they were glad they did not have and everyone knows that it happens. I imagine if there was a current medical situation that only doing one foot or even stepping out that one day would be acceptable. But I would also say to not worry what others will think of your feet. I had an aunt once who would never go to communion because she thought her feet were too big! Personally, I would not do foot washing with my wife. Somehow it seems like cheating!
  7. 3 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Should Footwashing Be Practiced As a Means of Grace Within the Church?

    I've always despised footwashing.... I'll wash anyone else's feet, but I'll be darned if I'm going to get my feet damp, then put shoes back on. And besides that, I'll wager very few people wash their hands afterwards, and then go in for communion and grub all over the crackers.
  8. 3 points
    phkrause

    Does a Lack of Men Lead to Liberalism

    I don't see this as being gross generalizations at all. For me personally there are no true conservatives or liberals! Each one of us has both, we are liberal in somethings and conservative in other things.
  9. 3 points
    debbym

    Does a Lack of Men Lead to Liberalism

    i would say no. we had a very strong paternal presence in our family and all of us seven kids tend to be liberal, yet spiritual and conservative in ways also. Authoritarianism is connected to some conservatives, but there are conservatives who do not hold to this style. liberal and conservative are very subjective terms in many ways... so many degrees and styles of each. i know liberals who see conservatives as being less educated and religious nuts... and preoccupied with various forms of human authority. Some conservatives see liberals as epicurean and indulgent and immoral and rationalizing whatever they want to do as being ok. i know these are gross generalizations but it is what came to mind when i read this topic.
  10. 3 points
    Kevin H

    The Days of Wine And Roses

    There is both a liberal extreme in the church and a conservative extreme in the church. Folcrum7 tends to be one of these two ditches. Too often Spectrum publishes articles from the other extreme. I am equally scared of both camps, yet I also believe that both camps point out facts that it is important for us not to forget. These two extremes, on both points, rather than being outright wrong (although they are on a couple points here and there) they tend to do more of a dividing of truth between them, with the truth being a straight and narrow path between the two. My biggest concern about Folcrum 7 is that they tend to want to pretend that these two ditches are the only two options. Since one is critical of Mrs. White and questions 1844 and that God can really change our lives, since they accept Mrs. White (when filtered through people like Elders Washburn and Wilkinson) and accept 1844 and the gospel changing our lives, they picture themselves as the only true group. They use scare tactics (such as in the book "With Cloak and Dagger" to try to scare people into their group. I've had "historical Adventists" tell me that I do not exist. That there are only two choices; to either believe exactly like them, or to believe exactly like Des Ford. But there are different sub groups of Adventism that do not fit those two categories.
  11. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Exegesis vs Eisegesis

    Good post. I have used both words in a number of my posts.
  12. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    A Former Schoolmate Appeals to Dan Jackson

    The fact that there may be a similarity between the Church of Rome and the current SDA church is not really important. Keep in mind that they were much closer to the early Christians and the Apostles and were not so distant from them as to not have a lot of similarity to the church in the time of the Apostles of which we try also to emulate. Do remember that this argument is really all about WO and there has never been women in leadership of the church throughout the earth's history. Leadership in the way of being a judge is a very different thing. Male leadership of the church was not a Roman invention. Next we will be calling Jesus a member of the Roman church because he didn't have female disciples!
  13. 2 points
    The Wanderer

    A Former Schoolmate Appeals to Dan Jackson

    well; I would strongly disagree with this statement. How did you decide that this must be so?
  14. 2 points
    stinsonmarri

    Is my take on God's Judgment Hour valid?

    I am so very sorry about the lost of your mother Henry. I lost my mother two years ago and I still feel a loss. YAHWEH can truly fix it. With love and prayers! Bless you, Henry! [NOTE: The quote above was stated by HCH. It was not made by The Wanderer--GM.]
  15. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Daniel 8 - 12 Reexamined

    I post on a number of topics that I consider to be of current interest and discussion in the SDA church today. My posting does not indicate whether or not I agree with the position of what I have posted. Certainly in some cases I do agree. But in others I disagree, in part if not totally.
  16. 2 points
    Rahab

    3 word devotional

    Hid with Christ
  17. 2 points
    Kevin H

    The Leper King

    Don't forget that the above writing probably came from Pharisees from that Sanhedrin, and the group that condemned Jesus was 24 Sadduceeian elders with no Pharisees invited.
  18. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Advent Movement

    I would also like to see background checks on the occupants of any houses I might visit! Seriously, in this #MeToo era, I would not go to anyones house I did not know without company. I considered some lines of work that would involve home visits, but no more. Bible studies might have to be done in public places. In my town, we have a fast food restaurant where the manager welcomes peoples to come in and study their Bibles even in groups. He says it lends a more positive atmosphere to their restaurant. So, one of the men that comes in there is a retired teacher of religion, computers, and math. He teaches Sunday school in the church where my mom graduated from cradle roll in 1927!
  19. 2 points
    Kevin H

    The Days of Wine And Roses

    As the Adventists discovered their mistake about the shut door and began to reintegrate themselves into the Christian world, the aftermath of the split between the evolutionists and fundamentalists have baffled how we should respond. W. W. Prescott read a book on Fundamentalism and became convinced that the Fundamentalists were right and began to teach Fundamentalism and his teaching had a huge impact on members especially Stephen Haskell. However when Mrs. White learned what Prescott was teaching, she asked him to stop teaching and to come to work for her, along with his friends A. G. Daniels and D. M. Canright. She began to give them assignments to do things to her writings that absolutely shocked these men. They believed she was inspired and that what God gave to her was totally perfect, so why would Mrs. White give them these assignments to research her message and make changes. Prescott and Daniels ended up giving up Fundamentalism (more or less). Canright fully embraced Fundamentalism and that lead to his giving up Mrs. White and Adventism. People like Haskell tried to balance between Mrs. White and Fundamentalism and he and Mrs. White would have very interesting conversations him trying to tell her how her inspiration worked and trying to convince her to become a fundamentalist. Her trying to convince him to give up fundamentalism. They were both frustrated that neither could convince the other to change their views, yet they remained very close friends. l Two other groups that formed was a number of Adventists, such as Elder Spicer believed in two different types of inspiration, that the Bible was inspired the way the Fundamentalists said inspiration worked, but Mrs. White had a different type of inspiration that did allow for editing and errors and not being perfect. While there were others who like Haskell took a fundamentalist view of inspiration but would use her words to try to give teeth to their understandings of Adventism and to use her words to force their views on the rest of the church. Eventually Stephen Haskell's views won out and became mainline Adventism, and based on this we have come to the conclusion that indeed as Mrs. White told us, her writings were not infallible, it's just that she never made a mistake. Among the sub group of people using Mrs. White to give teeth to force their views on the rest of the church became the so called "Historic Adventists" including the Fulcrum7 people.
  20. 2 points
    B/W Photodude

    Should Footwashing Be Practiced As a Means of Grace Within the Church?

    Here is a lengthly quote from which I quoted from: Jesus set us the example and told us to do as He had done to us. I saw that the example of Christ should be as exactly followed as possible. <- (My quote)Yet brethren and sisters have not always moved as judiciously as they should in washing feet, and confusion has been caused. I saw that the messengers of God must be careful how they introduce this duty. I saw that no example was given us in God's Word for the brethren to wash the sisters’ feet, but there was an example of the sisters washing their brethren's feet.7 Should this passage on intergender foot washing be taken as implying that it was common practice among Sabbatarian Adventists in the early 1850s for men to wash the feet of women and vice versa? Does the passage constitute instruction radically curtailing such practices? There are only a handful of reports in the Review, during this period, of the foot-washing ceremony being observed, and none of them describe how it was carried out. It seems unlikely, however, that mixed gender washing, particularly men washing the feet of women, was a common feature. Such a practice was considered scandalous and had raised a hue and cry in both the secular and religious press during 1845-1846, when some Millerite factions had adopted “promiscuous” (i.e., mixed) foot washing. It seems more than likely that if mixed gender washing had been a common feature of Sabbatarian Adventism in the early 1850s it would have been highlighted by critics of the movement. Although no comprehensive study has been done of early critics of the Sabbatarian Adventists, random reading of this literature has not uncovered accusations of such practice. An alternative interpretation of this passage is that Ellen White is primarily addressing those who argued that foot washing per se was an unbiblical practice. According to one such argument, as set out here by B. Mathewson in 1858, “in Christ Jesus ‘there is neither male nor female. … Where is one example where Christ ever separated the sexes for worship or the performance of an ordinance?” Hence, he argues, “there can be no impropriety for the sexes to engage … promiscuously … in the ordinance of the Lord's supper.” And yet, as “all must see,” such a mixed service “would have an appearance of evil” and “be a great source of scandal to the church.” The inescapable conclusion is that Christ never intended foot washing as a general ordinance. To this kind of argument James White responded some years later, in 1859: “We reply that confining ourselves strictly to the example set us in the sacred record involves no breach of propriety. We have the examples of females washing the feet of males, but not vice versa.” James White's counterargument clearly echoed the position found in this 1853 letter by Ellen White.
  21. 2 points
    Rahab

    3 word devotional

    Put on Christ
  22. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Should Footwashing Be Practiced As a Means of Grace Within the Church?

    Yes, today many SDA congregations have 3-sections for foot washing: males, females and family.
  23. 2 points
    JoeMo

    God's Providence

    Just my opinion, but God is transcendent of time; and therefore knows the beginning from the end. It's like a chess game with God - he knows every mover we're gonna make (by our own free will); but He has a countermove to attempt to put us on the right track every time. Look how he used pagans to perform His will when disciplining Israel. An example is the Exodus. Did God really harden Pharaoh's heart with the plagues He sent on Egypt; or did Pharaoh choose to harden his heart! I think it was the latter. God's people were gonna go back to Canaan either the easy way or the hard way. Pharaoh chose the hard way, and Egypt was destroyed because of it. Another example on the other end of the spectrum is Cyrus letting the Jews go back to Jerusalem. Their captivity was over, and the Jews were going back the easy way or the hard way. Cyrus chose the easy way; and was blessed for it. Here is another way God imposes His providence on us: "“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others." (Dan. 2:20-21)
  24. 2 points
    JoeMo

    What's Going On?

    I miss some of the more prolific and challenging posters that used to be active hear - People like 8thdaypriest, Woody, Thomas the Doubter, and Tom Wetmore. I also miss the wise words of some that post only occasionally now - like Pam, and Debbym, and Gail. I liked Wanderer's idea about posting personal testimonies. I might just start a thread along those lines.
  25. 2 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Doug Batchelor and IQ

    he's using data from an old 2005 study by Irwing and Lynn.... But aside from that, what is notably absent from from Batchelor's statement, is the study's difference in standard deviation for men vs women. Males' scores were spread out over the curve, whereas females tended to cluster around the mean — meaning males may have more "geniuses," but they also have more of significantly lower intelligence than women.
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