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  1. 3 points
    Lone Ranger

    666

    IMO "TRUTH" or, in this case, the "trueness" of a statement, fact, or claim, falls on a continuum. On the one end is the solid empirical "facts" such as gravity and the temperature at which water freezes, and at the other end is the "Opinion" end, such as "There is a God" and "Billy only likes me because he wants to date my sister." Where any particular assertion falls on the continuum depends on the discussion, the context, history, empirical aspects, and, literally, mood and time of day.
  2. 3 points
    Lone Ranger

    666

    dgrimm60, it would seem that you fail to recognize that what you--dgrimm60--"believes" about the Bible is in fact nothing more than YOUR opinion, just like what I (Lone Ranger) and 8THDAYPRIEST and JOEMO and everyone else thinks is also OUR OPINION. The words of the Bible are just the words. What we believe those words are saying...is our opinion.
  3. 3 points
    Lone Ranger

    666

    Yes. And No. When one reads the Bible they form an opinion of what it is saying or what someone tells them it's saying. It's how we're built. We really have no other option for understanding anything, from Scripture to your microwave manual. Having formed an opinion we then act on that opinion, or understanding. So in one aspect the opinion is more important than the Bible, because the Bible is, really, words on a page, but how we understand those words is what makes a difference. This is where the Holy Spirit comes in. To "lead us into all understanding."
  4. 3 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    LONE RANGER the bible says in 2 PET chap 1 verse 20 that prophecy is not a private interpretation dgrimm60
  5. 3 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    8THDAYPRIEST if you thought I was down grading your thoughts and statements I am sorry but THE BIBLE IS TRUTH not an opinion===GOD THE FATHER===JESUS ==THE HOLY SPIRIT have a plan for people to follow and be saved=====they do not want this plan to be a mystery but clear that is why GOD gave these prophecies to help us we need to pray the HOLY SPIRIT can guide people in to all truth dgrimm60
  6. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    666

    For whatever it is worth, Jan Marcussen is a current SDA clergy person who is active in an independent ministry and often reflects views toward the Roman Catholic Church that were held by our early leaders. While I have not recently examined his views, I suspect that some of them may reflect ignorance of current scholarship. For your interest, I will expound a bit on some current scholarship related to 666 and Vicariius Filli Dei. It should be noted that the 666 number is closely related to Vicarious Filli Dei (VFD). Absent the VFD, the 666 number is without support. The only objective support for VFD is found in the so-called Donation of Constantine (DofC). The DOC is actually a forgery that dates from the 8th century. There is a secondary source that cites the VFD but is based upon the DofC. In other words. There is no objective support for the VFD outside of a document (DOC) that is known to be a forgery. Considerable SDA scholarship has been devoted to research on the VFD and has concluded as I have stated above. As one example, at the behest of W. W. Prescott, C. T. Everson visited the Lateran Museum in Rome and photographed the papal tiara. Those photographs demonstrated that the tiara lacked the VFD inscription. Later the SDA Church was planning the publication of a new edition of the book Daniel and Revelation. A decision was made to include Everson's photograph in this new book. At that time an A. O. Smith ordered an artist to fraudulently inscribe the VFD title on the photograph of the tiara. fortunately the General Conference learned of this prior to publication and that forgery was not published. NOTE: This event happened some years ago. Gentlepeople: The God we worship is a God of truth. He is not honored by dishonesty. p277
  7. 2 points
    8thdaypriest

    The God man - the nature of Christ as understood through the Bible writings.

    We search and search for just the right words to explain the nature of Jesus. Can't say that I've read a perfect explanation - yet. While doing a study recently into Paul's phrase "under the law", I read the verse in Galatians where Paul wrote that God's Son was "born of a woman, born under the law". I had progressed in my study to the point where I now understand "under the law" to mean: subject to "the law of sin and death". Essentially that law said, "you sin - you die". This was the law for Adam/Eve. "If you eat of that forbidden tree - you will die." Paul says, "the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ has set us free from the law of sin and death". If we are "set from from" that law, we are NOT "under" it. That would be my conclusion. Anyway - if JESUS was "born under" that "law of sin and death" - that means IF He had sinned, He would have died eternally. Does it also mean that He could have sinned. I believe so. There's no point in saying that Jesus was "born under the law (of sin and death)", if He was really not capable of sinning or dying. He did die. He died BECAUSE He was "made" "to be sin". ALL of Him - not just the human part. 2 Corinthians 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (NIV) I can agree with Gustave, that the nature of Jesus was not "drawn" to sin. I believe that such will be our nature, once we are fully indwelt by God's Spirit in the kingdom to come. And by then we also have new "spiritual bodies". Without the tired, hungry, sexually stimulated physical bodies we now occupy, a whopping LOT of temptations would have no pulling power. Jesus was born with the spiritual nature of Adam before the Fall, and the physical nature of Abraham/Mary - 4000 years after the Fall. Adam was fully indwelt. So was Christ. Adam sinned. Christ did not. Jesus was "tempted in every way, just as we are" (Heb 4:15 NIV). His temptations were not of a different KIND, they were of a different intensity, and they were suited to fit His identity, nature, and situation. Jesus was tempted to prove Himself - to Satan. A really dumb temptation - unless the human had gone without food for 40 days, and was starving. He was tempted to use His position/status as "commander" of angels, or perhaps also His divine power - to benefit only Himself, by turning stones to bread for His own consumption, something that His covenant with His Father had strictly forbidden. He was tempted to put Himself (His flesh) in harm's way, presuming that His Father would rescue Him - again just to prove (to Satan and his angels) that He was indeed the Sonof God. He was tempted to avoid all the suffering - to take the easy way to power - by bowing down to Satan -- To give up His mission to save mankind. Satan's implication was "they're not worth it."
  8. 2 points
    JoeMo

    666

    Concerning prophecy of future events - no. Paul tells us that satan didn't even understand that Christ's death was His victory. "Truth" in prophetic events will become that when the prophecies unfold. Until, then, interpretations are just educated opinions.
  9. 2 points
    The Wanderer

    666

    so, does this mean you are saying no one can really know what truth is?
  10. 2 points
    stinsonmarri

    666

    Because Islam is not a major world Empire if you really knew what the word mean. Religion does not make a world empire, political force does. However, religious ideology is behind the politic. Empire: a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire. Joe you make it feel like we want to just pick out the Catholic Church again because of the people and that is not true. I provided you just a pinch of history and many in the SDA Church has recanted on the evidence. I read Jan Marcussen book and differ with it on many points. But I agree with the history of the Holy Roman Empire that Constantine formed is in Daniel and Revelation. Let me begin with why I do not accept the word Christ or Christian because they are pagan and are the crust of the major problem. Sad my church fell for it too and will not like what I am saying. So I will be detest a lot, but the facts must be provided. I am not here for fame, just a presenter. I know the myth about Acts 11:26. It is very hard for people to accept things because of what they choose to believe. I believe at one time I was a Christian and also in the word Christ. I learned different after my last Christmas Tree. I was pregnant with my son and I was flipping through Jeremiah and I came upon Chapter 10 and it changed me as a SDA traditionalist to one of faith. I begin to check everything I once thought was true. That is why I became a Biblical Historian to understand facts. I will give to you what history showed me and it up to you to accept it or not! Cretin (n.) Often Offensive- A person considered to be foolish or unintelligent. from Vulgar Latin *christiānus, Christian, human being, poor fellow, from Latin Chrīstiānus, Christian. The American Heritage Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary (Thousands of entries in the dictionary include etymologies that trace their origins back to reconstructed proto-languages. You can obtain more information about these forms in our online appendices: Indo-European Roots) Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season. Catholic Encyclopedia Krishna or Chris-na and Christos come from the same root. Kris in Sanskrit means the pure or the sacred, ’the first emanation of the invisible Godhead, manifesting itself tangibly in spirit. . . Isis Unveiled, II, 158 As yet, no God had been selected by the council, and so they balloted in order to determine that matter… For one year and five months the balloting lasted…” (God’s Book of Eskra, Prof. S.L. MacGuire’s translation, Salisbury, 1922, chapter xlviii, paragraphs 36, 41) At the end of that time, Constantine returned to the gathering to discover that the presbyters had not agreed on a new deity but had balloted down to a short list of five prospects: Caesar, Krishna, Mithra, Horus and Zeus (Historia Ecclesiastica, Eusebius, c. 325) Mosaic of Jesus as Christo Sole (Christ the Sun) in Mausoleum M in the pre-fourth-century necropolis under St. Peter's Basillica, St. Peters' of Rome. The cross was not a Christian symbol at the time of the battle – nor would be until the 6th century!). Any ‘good luck emblem’ at this date would have been the chi-rho – ambiguously the first two letters of the word Christos, the Greek word for ‘auspicious’ and also Chronos, god of time and a popular embodiment of Mithras! (On the Death of the Persecutors, chapter xliv; ANF. vii, 318.); (The fable was later embellished by the emperor's ‘minister of propaganda’, Bishop Eusebius, in his Life of Constantine (1.xxvi-xxxi)) The trinity consisted of the god Serapis (=Osiris+Apis), the goddess Isis (=Hathor, the cow-moon goddess), and the child-god Horus. In one way or another almost every other god was identified with one or other of these three aspects of the one god, even the sun god Mithras of the Persians. And they were each other; they were three, but they were also one. The Outline of History, by H. G. Wells. p. 307 With its spread among the gentiles, the pagan characteristics of Christianity gained in influence, and after Constantine the Great and the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire, the traditional Hellenistic-pagan forms of civic, social, and cultural anti-Semitism (see *Apion) merged with the specifically Christian theological motifs to form an amalgam that has left a tragic legacy to history. The Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 5, p. 511 A tauroctony bas-relief with a Greek inscription. It may be found in the Vatican museum, in the room of the animals, and is behind the large free-standing tauroctony of CIMRM 548. Note that casual visitors are not allowed into the room (in 2014), but must remain behind the rope in the corridor, which is why all the photos are from one side. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Rev 17:5 I will be providing only information from history on this next. Islam was not around when all of the above begin. Ishmael nor his son created Islam, an Arab man from the mixture of Japheth, Shem and Ham form this pagan religion. History facts on that next as well! Blessings!
  11. 2 points
    8thdaypriest

    666

    I do not agree with - your interpretation of those passages - on this point. Of course I "believe the Bible", but many prophecies did not come with ready interpretations. Thousands of years would reveal the fulfillment. END TIME prophecy may not be understood until we get there - to the "time of the end". Daniel was told to "shut up the book". Yes - I remember that Adventists believe "the time of the end" began in 1844. I don't agree I will post later concerning my own understanding, at this point.
  12. 2 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    THE LONE RANGER so are you saying that opinions are more important than the bible truth==== this is what the bible calls mans traditions over GODS WORD=== JESUS even warns us about this MATT 15 :3 , 6===MARK 7 : 9, 13 dgrimm60
  13. 2 points
    The Wanderer

    At the Creation

    Thank you I will also apologize. Sometimes I hurry when I post, and it can come across as a little crusty
  14. 2 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    8YHDAYPRIEST as for bible verse about the PAGAN ROME AND PAPAL ROME ===look at DAN 7 : VERSES 19==20==21==22==23==24==25 if you can not get pagan and papal Rome out of these bible verses something is wrong==== and these can not apply to ISLAM dgrimm70
  15. 2 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    JOEMO DAN 2 in the image of metals the legs are iron====in DAN 7 the undescribed has iron teeth===the history calls PAPGAN ROME the iron empire there must be a connection ----if DAN 2 ==7 ==8 are correct about the 2nd and 3rd beast(kingdoms) when not know the 4th beast(kingdom) history seems to know===as for as papal ROME it comes out of PAGAN ROME this is also in history ====then why not believe the bible on this point dgrimm70
  16. 2 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    8THDAYPRIEST DAN CHAP 2==7==8 are from the bible WHICH was from the word of GOD === and not my opinion if you can not believe the bible then something is wrong as for as EARLY S,.D.A. history William Miller was not a S.D.A. when he learned about this prophecy dgrimm60
  17. 2 points
    The Wanderer

    666

    I have never used that VFD story line when talking about prophecy to the public. It never seemed necessary as it did nothing to make the story any better. I have always been uneasy about saying stuff like that that cant be proven from scripture
  18. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    At the Creation

    There is no question that official SDA teachings reflect a God that is one and consists of "three coeternal Persons." See Fundamental Belief # 2. The use of that word "persons" leads to confusion as Gustave had aptly pointed out. The problem, as he has stated it is that he has neglected to consider the metaphorical understanding that we attach to that word. As some early SDA leaders were Arian, to some degree, I am not gong to state that those early SDAs were orthodox as we would understand it today. But, I do take substantial issue with his claim to the effect that those early leaders believed in a God with digestive organs as have we humans. Such would be pure garbage. I do not defend early leadership for errors in theology that they may have had. But, this claim of digestive organs is simply without merit. Even within the context of Arianism that some had, this idea of digestive organs is simply without foundation. If I were to be believed to be in error on this: So, what? Those early SDA leaders, to include EGW, were wrong, at times on some points. God did not many any of them without error.
  19. 2 points
    Gregory Matthews

    At the Creation

    Gustave has spent some time in telling us what he considers to be the SDA position on certain aspects of the Trinity and the personhood of God. The following book addresses this issue: Norman R. Gully, Systematic Theology: God as Trinity. Andrews University Press, 2011, pages 56 -60. In brief, God is described to us humans in human language, which is metaphorical in order "to accommodate our finite human understanding of a God who is finite." Page 58
  20. 2 points
    dgrimm60

    666

    JOE MO I AM not saying that ISLAM will not have a part in the end time events===but the book of DANIEL makes it very clear that the beast power is the papacy dgrimm60
  21. 2 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    be a friend ~

  22. 1 point
    Rahab

    3 word devotional

    Warning every man 🚦
  23. 1 point
    dgrimm60

    666

    LONE RAANGER AND COASPEN DURING THE CRUDSADES Christians fought against Muslims===when OTTOMAN EMPIRE fell===Christians against Muslims=== so there could be another battle between Christians and Muslims at the end of time but both read DAN CHAPTER 2 AND CHAPTER 7 AND CHAPTER 8 ===all these chapters talk about the 4 kingdoms in world history===it also talks about the papacy==and how they changes times and laws and killed GOD' true follows now we all know that the main being behind all this is the DEVIL AND HIS DEMONS ===but they use people and rulers and kingdoms to carry out the devil's plan and in DAN Chapters 2==7==8 make is clear that this is the papacy the main issue in the great battle is who will people worship and the devil is using the Papacy and its teachings to get people to worship the beast or Devil so it is the bible that is telling us about this not the S.D.A. CHURCH====if we as people on this earth want to follow GOD THE FATHER==JESUS===HOLY SPIRIT then we need to study the bible and learn about both the Devil's plan and GOD'S PLAN dgrimm60
  24. 1 point
    8thdaypriest

    At the Creation

    It does NOT MATTER, whether those groups of Christians (or Jews) followed the teachings as laid down by the church officially approved of Rome. No Christian church has a commission from God to persecute another Christian church. That alone, tells me that Popes were NOT speaking for/as Jesus. Just one example Waldensians: The movement originated in the late twelfth century as the Poor Men of Lyon, a band organized by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant who gave away his property around 1173, preaching apostolic poverty as the way to perfection. Waldensian teachings quickly came into conflict with the Catholic Church. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to intense persecution; the group was nearly annihilated in the 17th century and was confronted with organised and general discrimination in the centuries that followed.
  25. 1 point
    8thdaypriest

    Outside "The Limits"

    Glad to know Stan is not push-able.


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