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  1. 5 points
    Gregory Matthews

    SDA Fundamentalism

    A comment on the use of a word: People often fail to distinguish between a lie and what is false. To say that something is false, is to say that it is not true. But, in saying that something is false, one is not attacking the motive of the person who said it was false. To say that someone told a lie, attaches a motive to the falsehood that suggests that the person telling the falsehood, both knew that it was false and also intended to deceive the person being told.
  2. 5 points
    Gustave

    Christians Need To Stop Assuming LGBT Sin Matters More Than God’s Mercy

    LGBTQQAA, sin is simply the particular sin of those effected by those desires - at the end of the day God looks at those sexual sins no differently than sins within the heterosexual camp. The biggest issue we face as sinners is justifying that our OWN SIN ISN'T THAT BAD because WE THINK it's less of an offensive / damming sin than the other persons -which couldn't be further from the truth.
  3. 5 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Christ & Christmas

    if someone thinks Christmas (Christ's Mass) is pagan and refuses to celebrate the holiday for that reason, that's okay. But the truth is, most pagans (and I'm thinking of the witches and other neopagans, along with Druidic and Celtic factions, rather than centuries old-established non-christian religions) aren't particularly impressed with Christmas. The day has no relevance in their sacred calendar (and never has), contrary to what many Christian writers have tried to espouse. The Winter Solstice (Yule) was the important day... and it's *never* on Dec 25th. So many Christians get so worked up and fearful of "touching" anything that could possibly be conceived as "pagan" — and end up sounding the false alarm. Let's be thankful for a day when most of the Christian world remembers the Christ Child's birth, and stops for a bit to think good thoughts. But as I wrote first, if someone doesn't want to celebrate Christmas, fine. But don't steal the joy from others who truly get a blessing from the day...
  4. 5 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Christ & Christmas

    In view of Stinsonmarri's post, I feel a need to clearly say that in no way did I intend to imply that she was a Jesuit hiding under my bed. As a matter of fact, I am confused as to how either she or any other person could think that I might have implied that she was a Jesuit. To set put this in context, for any who do not know: Jesuits are all male. There is no such thing as a Jesuit female. My understanding is that Stinsonmarri is a female. I would never imply otherwise. Further, I would never consider Stinsonmarri to have any desire to hide under my bed.
  5. 5 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Christ & Christmas

    If you all will excuse me for a bit, while I leave this forum. I think that I need to check to see if there is a Jesuit hiding under my bed. I think I heard some strange noises from that area, recently.
  6. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Who's fooling who?

    NOTE: There is no time, in this human life, prior to the 2nd Advent when any human can stand on their own merit outside of the salvation provided by Christ. Period. End of discussion.
  7. 4 points
    thx4mercy

    How Does God Guarantee a Sin-Free Eternity in a Universe Filled With Free-Will Beings?

    This goes along with what I heard once, "We will have the capacity to sin (in heaven), but we won't want to." Just like the angels in heaven now, they still have the power of choice. But when they see what our world is like now, there is no way they would be tempted to follow Satan.
  8. 4 points
    Stan

    My New Project, check out the person on page 6

    First edition of the Magazine published in cooperation with the General Conference, Office of Adventist Mission and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada. For information on subscribing to this please email MessengerSA@adventist.ca http://issues.adventistmessenger.ca/books/clae/
  9. 4 points
    Shane

    Engaged

    For those of you that do not know, Stan has a little hobby of matching couples together. I met Imelda (who I call Céline) online as a result of Stan inviting me to join Adventist Dating. Internet technology not only allows the two of us to visit each day but to study our Sabbath school lessons, cook, go shopping, sing, play guitar and even go on vacation together. Céline is often in my home via video chat on the Ipad which allows her to interact with my children, Alex and Shania. The same technology allows me to interact interact with her son, Gabriel, who loves playing basketball and is an avid fan. At the time of this announcement, we have been dating for eight months. We chatted online for one month before we officially started dating. I am on track to complete my master’s degree in family counseling in fall of 2020 but will not be changing careers. My work in counseling will be a part-time ministry. I have already been ordained by a non-denominational ministry so that I can work as a pastoral counselor and not have issues with the Texas Department of Health. Let me tell you a little about her. Imelda, or Céline, was raised in a Seventh-day Adventist home on a farm in the Philippines. There she played in rice fields and practiced martial arts with her brothers. She attended an Adventist elementary school and was in Pathfinders. She was ROTC captain in high school. She went to Central Philippines Adventist College (CPAC) where she earned a business degree. She speaks six languages, although not fluent in all of them (English, Tagalog, Visayan, Mandarin, Arabic and French). She is 42 years old and has an 18-year old son, Gabriel, now attending CPAC. She never married and has worked in Beirut, Lebanon as a caretaker for ten years to pay for Gabriel’s Christian education. She has also worked in Taiwan and Dubai. She enjoys playing volleyball and basketball. At age 39, she won the last beauty pageant she competed in. It was the third time she had won such a contest. I used to be very active here but when my first marriage started experiencing problems, my activity here dropped off. For those who were not here when I was or don't remember much about me, here is my brief bio. I was also raised in a Seventh-day Adventist home. My family moved throughout the United States often. I lived in eight different states by the time I was 18 years old (Nebraska, Utah, Iowa, Wisconsin, Texas, Colorado, Washington and Minnesota). I was a soldier for five years in the United States Army, serving a tour in Panama. Later I was a missionary in El Salvador, studied Spanish in Guadalajara, Mexico and graduated Minnesota State University, Mankato with a business degree. While in college, I ran a ministry on campus for three years. I moved back to Texas after college and have worked in commercial building construction since that time. I have custody of my two children, Alex and Shania (17 and 15) from a previous marriage that lasted 18 years. As mentioned above, I am currently a graduate student, studying online at the Adventist university in Mexico. I know many of my church friends are concerned for me. I have been married twice and the concern is that perhaps I should not marry again. I appreciate that. I was married to my first wife for 18 years. She had a mid-life crisis and left me for another man (who was and still is married to someone else). I tried to save the marriage but was not successful. Broken-hearted, I rushed into a second marriage, against my better judgement – marrying only 30 days after my divorce was final. (We actually had lunch with Stan on our honeymoon at the 2015 GC) We blended families. The kids didn’t get along and I developed PTSD as a result of the high-conflict divorce with my first wife. I ended the marriage, under the guidance of a counselor, because of health issues. I had developed high blood pressure, acid reflux, insomnia and weight gain. It was simply bad timing. I needed time to recover from the divorce with my first wife. I got treatment for the PTSD and recovered my health. This time I have been taking it slow. My children are older and have recovered from the divorce and support this decision. With God’s grace things will work out this time. I have enjoyed being a single-parent raising my children for over three years. Actually, more than enjoyed, I have absolutely loved being my kids; dad. It has been a joy and an honor. It cost me thousands of dollars to win custody. I will actually finish paying off the lawyer loan this year in April. I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to continue raising my children for God. It is a privilege that most divorced fathers never have. My parents divorced when I was young. I never had a real father figure. I lived on the streets as a teenager before sobering up in Alcoholics Anonymous at the age of 16. I learned how to submit to authority, how to listen, how to learn from my own mistakes and even more, how to learn from the mistakes of others. I read books about being a husband before I got married and about being a father before I had children. While I am a construction project manager and have built projects valued at more than $10 million, I am a family man. I am the father to my children that I never had. I have worked hard to maintain a healthy relationship with my ex-wife so we can co-parent our children together. The average time a man waits after a divorce to remarry in the US is 3 years. That is what it will be for me. A recent study showed that 61% of divorced Adventists never remarry. That is almost the opposite of the population in general in which 60% do remarry (and many more cohabitate). The Bible teaches it is not good for man to be alone and multiple studies confirm the benefits of marriage. It is unknown why so many divorced Adventists stay single. Those who experience the forgiving grace of God have no need to perform penance for a failed marriage. Divorce should be a wake-up call to take inventory, repent of sins and start a new path. Many second marriages fail because people blame their ex and don’t learn from the divorce. That certainly is not the case with me. This place was like a second church for me for a long time. I grew a lot spiritually from interacting here and I am sure there are many Adventists that are isolated or in churches that are not very active and could benefit a lot from this forum. I liked the name Club Adventist better but,,, who am I? Maybe the GC didn't share my opinion. I still pop in here every now and again but life is extremely busy right now. In a couple of years I will be done with graduate school, both of my children will be adults, and I will be married again. Those are all big changes and hopefully all positive ones.
  10. 4 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    New York Court Upholds Emergency Mandatory Vaccination

    And how do you reconcile that mantra when it could mean the death of someone else? Simply, "oh well"?
  11. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    A Personal Anouncemenet

    I come before you today realizing that the time has come for me to make a definitive announcement of my plans as to whether or not I will enter the race for President of the United States. I acknowledge that this forum, Adventistan is the ideal venue in which to state my plans. With some 9,000 plus members it has clearly demonstrated that it has the ability to grow in size. Further, as I analyze its population, I sense that its members include both those followers of the current President, whom I will not name as well as those who are looking for someone new, which I am. As I consider my decision, I believe that I have the following qualification that would suggest that I run for President: · * The President needs to be decisive person who can make decision. I fit that mold. Less than 30 minutes has occurred between the time that I first considered it and the time at which I made my decision. · * My years of service in the military, to include service as an enlisted person who reached the rank of Specialist 4 and as a Commissioned Officer who achieved the rank of Major, and served in combat, demonstrates that I have better qualifications to deploy our military internationally than have other Presidents. · * My 20 years of employment with the VA gives me the background needed to understand how the government operates, how it should be reformed and to reform it. · * My formal training in Mediation qualified me to preside over a fractious government system. · * My years of service in representing employees of the Federal government in negotiations with management demonstrates that I can understand and provide for the needs of the common working person. · * Due to issues that I have with sleep, I consider that my ability to sleep during boring meetings as well as to rise early and get to work specially qualifies me for the positon over and above some who have served before me. · * I do not micromanage. I chose competent people and allow them to do their job. · * I will select persons to fill government positons from both Republications and Democrats that are representative of the U.S. population While the above are only a few of my qualification to run for President, I must say that I am lacking in some respects: · * With my advanced age, I am not longer head and shoulders above all of the others who have announced that they are running for President. I have shrunk in height from what I once was. · * I do not have the financial resources needed to purchase the office as some have had. · * I do not own a jet aircraft capable of flying me around the country in luxury. · * While I have represented people before a Federal Administrative Law Judge I have never been to law school. · * I do not want to spend the next two years traveling the country. I have visited all 50 of the States in the past and I do not need to repeat that. Well here you have it--my qualifications for and my lack of qualifications. The time has come to make a decision. I have made a decision and chosen to announce in on this preeminent forum: I will not run for President of the United States during the next election. This decision of firm. NOTE: I have announced my decisions based upon my belief that the multitude of Democrats who are expected to run for President (Presently 14, with more expected to join the race.) requires that I make a statement.
  12. 4 points
    Aliensanctuary

    A Personal Anouncemenet

    Dear Mr. Matthews, It's a great tragedy for America that you have declined to run for POTUS as a either a Republicator or Democritator. With your extensive experience in non-politics you would have been far more qualified than any community organizer or reality TV star. We believe it was the intent of the Founding Fathers of America that the presidency should not be bought by the wealthy, nor should it require riding horse back for thousands of miles just to make people think you care about them and their problems. Those of us dwelling in Adventistan sincerely hope that you reconsider running for POTUS, and if you do, know that we foresee you riding into glory and history on horseback as a great pioneer of non-campaigning and use of zero energy in order to save the world and America. Every single patriot and Green New Dealer has your back and a cartload of horse poop that can be used instead of fossil fuels to power America's future indefinitely. Sincerely, the Tater family, including Dick, Common, Frozen, Stuffed, Mashed, and Instant
  13. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Christians Need To Stop Assuming LGBT Sin Matters More Than God’s Mercy

    As many of you know, I spent 20 years working in a VA hospital as a chaplain. Many people were not certain as to how to address me. Some would ask. I would tell them that I was not hung up on titles, but if they wanted to call me Chaplain, that would be fine. Others would look back into their history and knowledge and venture a guess and call me either Father or Reverend. It always took that as an attempt on their part to be respectful and to acknowledge me as a member of the clergy. I never corrected them in any way. I simply took it for what they meant. NOTE: I was never called Mother. By the same token, as a matter of respect, I did use the common titles of Reverend and Father in my address to clergy who normally used those titles. I do not believe that any of them ever thought that I, as SDA clergy was attributing anything more to them than that of respectfully acknowledging them as clergy. And, my doing so served to build relationships. I believe that God expects us, as Adventists, to build relationships with people of other denominational backgrounds, to include other clergy. I am not going to call other clergy by a title that may cause them to think that I do consider them to be the clergy that they are. As to the title given to the Pope of Your Holiness: No Catholic who understands the Catholic faith would ever consider that title to indicate that the Pope is without sin. Catholic doctrine clearly teaches that the Pope is a sinful human being and the Pope must go to Confession the same as any other Catholic. The Catholic teaching of the meaning of the title Your Holiness is that the Pope his dedicated his life to that which is set apart as a follower of Christ and the religious life. IOW, the Pope has put apart the secular and it totally dedicated to the spiritual, even if as a human imperfect.
  14. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Phoenix is Resurrected

    In ancient Greek mythology, the Phoenix is a long lived bird who knows that its death in near. I builds a nest, sets itself on fire and is destroyed. But, from those ashes that remain, a new young Phoenix arises and begins the cycle again which continues to be repeated. The One Project leaders, after years of controversy, which many thousands of people attended, sensed that its end had come. Its leadership was weary of the attacks, often by people who had not personally experienced it. The pressure of the personal obligations that its leaders had assumed in financing the costs associated with a multi-day conference in which 1,000 + people attended had taken a toll on those leaders. So, the plug was pulled. The meetings ended and the leaders attempted to settle back into a less stressful life. But, such was not to be. This week a small meeting was held in a SDA church. Out of that meeting, the One Project has been resurrected. The Phoenix has stretched its wings and is flying again. As a young bird, it has morphed into a creature that is slightly different. It is expected that in the future it will be centered in SDA congregations rather than at hotel conference centers. Other changes are taking back. But, the Phoenix flys again. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/jesus-returns-or-one-project-back 2/25/2019 NOTE: I have given further research to this subject. It is possible that someone reading that above, might think that the rebirth of The One Project is further developed than it actually is. In actuality the above probably represents the desire of the future that came out of that meeting, however, this is in the developmental stage and it remains to be seen how it actually develops--GM.
  15. 4 points
    phkrause

    Phoenix is Resurrected

    Here's a statement from a Jewish website about the Ark!! The only remnant of the Ark in Jewish life today is the Holy Ark in which Torah scrolls are kept in synagogues. These Arks often are decorated with copies of the Tablets, reminiscent of the contents of the actual Ark of ancient times. The Ark itself plays no role in Jewish life today. Nonetheless, it remains a potent symbol of the Jewish peoples' past, and of the messianic era many believe is waiting in the future.
  16. 4 points
    debbym

    A Former Schoolmate Appeals to Dan Jackson

    i don't follow Ted Wilson, I don't follow Dan Jackson. I let Christ be the one authority in the Church.This was a real problem for the religious authorities in his day. He was considered radical and a rebell, and fighting against the established righteous authority of His day. I pray today, I will be found standing In Jesus and Jesus alone. If i add human authority to the authority Jesus in my life i will stand in human strength and not in the strength of the Holy Spirit.
  17. 4 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    The Days of Wine And Roses

    I agree with some of what Fulcrum7 publishes; some of it I don't. — which is sort of what I find in all groups. So... I use what I like, discard what I don't, and thank God that He didn't clone us to think and behave identically.
  18. 4 points
    Kevin H

    Christ & Christmas

    How did December 25 Become Christmas?: The tradition is that the pagans were keeping December 25 from Babylon and that Christians started to say that Jesus' birthday was December 25 starting in the fourth century AD after Constantine made Christianity a legal religion and it was good to take in the Pagans by taking their holiday and making it the birthday of Jesus. I was taught this, we find it in most books, articles , documentaries and sermons. This understanding came from scholars studying the best material available to them a few hundred years ago. However, there have been more discoveries made that those scholars did not have available. We need to update our information. The problem from the story we have all grown up with and have been taught is that there are some fairly new historical discoveries. I just learned about it for the first time in the journal "Bible Review" (it was a sister journal to Biblical Archaeology Review but now they are again just one journal) in either the year 2001, 2002 or 2003 in the November-December edition. Since then there have been a few articles in Biblical Archaeology Review that I've seen, and on some of the newer programs on the history channel referring to this and have been starting to hear it in sermons and a short article about it in either the Adventist Review or one of our other papers. So if you look up the December issues of Bible Reviews in the early 2000s and recent years of the Biblical Archaeology Review you can study this information for yourself. We now know that Christians were saying that December 25 was Jesus birthday starting in the third century, 100 years earlier than we thought. And it was done 100 years before Constantine, by people who wanted nothing to do with Paganism and who were hiding from Pagans in the Catacombs. Then what makes it more complicated was in the second century, 200 years prior to when Christians were supposed to have started to see December 25 as the birth of Jesus, the church has the feast of the Annunciation (where the Angel told Mary that she was going to be Jesus' mother) every year at Passover. The date of the feast was different each year originally depending on when Passover was. Then one year the church changed from the Jewish calendar to the Roman Calendar. That year Passover fell on March 25. The church started to celebrate the feast on March 25 every year thereafter. What is 9 months after March 25? These events were not related to wanting to appeal to the Pagans and the Pagan feasts. In fact some studies have suggested that the evidence is that while the pagans had different holidays that fell in approximately this time frame, that there was nothing special about December 25 until the fourth century and that the Pagans may have taken it from the Christians. But that has more room for debate. Anyway, the current evidence is that it came from taking over a Jewish tradition. During the intertestamental period the Rabbis were saying to expect good things at Passover. A number began teaching that it was Passover when Isaac was born. But others were teaching that it was Passover when the 3 men came to Abraham, two went on to Sodom and Gomorrah and the third, who turned out to be the Lord, told Abraham and Sarah that at the appointed time Sarah would give birth. Thus that Sarah got pregnant with Isaac at Passover and that he was born 9 months later. (Guess when that would place Isaac's birth?). Then they were also saying that it was on another Passover, the anniversary of either Isaac being conceived or the anniversary of his birth that Abraham took Isaac to sacrifice him but God provided the substitute. In the second century AD (200 years before Constantine) the church and synagogue split into two religions. This was a very sad time in the history of God’s people. Like a divorce people on both sides were hurt and would lash out to cause pain to people on the other side. Frankly I like the idea that we got this from the pagans better than the fact that it came from this sad time in history. One of the things the church was saying in it’s lashing out at the Jews was that Christians were better than Jews because Isaac was merely a type of Jesus while Jesus was the better antitype. Church leaders drew in the second century AD drew parallels that said that as the Angels and the Lord visited Sarah and Abraham that Passover day and announced Sarah's pregnancy and Sarah gave birth to Isaac 9 months later. So the angel visited Mary and the Lord entered Mary's womb on a Passover day and Jesus was born 9 months later. Thus with the feast of the Annunciation use to be first every Passover and then changed to March 25 and the events surrounding the church-synagogue split and the Jewish tradition on Passover and Isaac is indication that we got December 25 from the Jews and not the pagans. (Note: That year the rabbis and synagogues in Greece said that Passover was April 6, and they changed from celebrating the feast of the Annunciation every Passover to every April 6 and this affected on how some eastern churches celebrate Christmas on January 6). Now, we most likely have the wrong date, however we do have the correct event! And also this is the same season as Hanukkah that John connects to the raising of Lazarus, thus focusing on the importance of enjoying our loved ones and to have hope that when our loved ones die that death is only an interruption and that one day we can be reunited with our loved ones and never ever part again!
  19. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Christ & Christmas

    To be clear: If my wife knew that a female was hiding under my bed, my wife would chase the female away.
  20. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    The Little Horn--More

    In the post above, Photodude gave the following website to support his claim that Catholic Popes have claimed to be God on Earth: http://www.geoffhorton.com/PapalClaims.html I invite all to go to that website and to read the entire article. I especially invite Photodude to go there and to read that article as I suspect that he has never read the entire article. That article lists seven (7) claims in which the Pope has claimed to be God on Earth. The article then addressed each claim and refuted it. IOW, each of the seven (7) claims is said by the article to be false, misleading or otherwise distorted. In actual fact, the article that Photodude listed supports the opposite of what Photodude implied it said.
  21. 4 points
    B/W Photodude

    Sunday"s coming,___________________________

    Many things are written in the Bible that those who do not really know will think they do and get it wrong. This includes even Adventists in the end time. "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:10 Hence, one would be wise to pay attention when Paul wrote, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor 10:12 The issue of the Jews not understanding the Messiah even when He walked among them intrigues me. They totally missed the meaning or what was happening at the first advent. I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood. Not sure if I even understand myself what is happening and am studying intensely to figure it out. Therefore, like the unbelievers in the temple at Jerusalem, when God speaks from heaven in the very end times, only His people will understand and to all the rest it will only sound like thunder. So, during summer storms and peels of thunder think about God speaking and it only sound like gibberish! (Are you aware that the KJV uses the term "Take heed" 65 times thru the Bible?!)
  22. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    The President Travels

    Some may wonder why I spend time arguing on some of the points that I make. One of my understandings of God, and a very important one to SDAs, is that God is a God of truth and that it is important that those who follow God (Christians) be people of truth. Certainly no one, to include me, is truthful in an absolute sense. But, it is an objective (goal) that I want to reach. From this perspective: * It is important that I be able to acknowledge the faults and imperfections in the teachings, organization and structure of the SDA Church. As an organization that is , at least in part, human, it is not perfect in the absolute sense and never will be. * It is important that when I talk about other groups of Christians, such as the Roman Catholic Church, that I present it, its teachings, structure, practices and all else in an accurate and truthful manner. I attempt to do the above, and when wrong appreciate correction.
  23. 4 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Dan Jackson's closing statements NAD, Nov 5, 2018

    (Just an FYI)
  24. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    When will Iran attack our (US) fleet?

    Gates is not considered to represent Adventism, as generally understood. This section, of this forum has been established where HCH, and others, can present their views that are not considered to be within main-line Adventism. It is pushing the boundaries of this section to begin to advocate the views of another as this forum does not exist to promote other forums and views. Rather it is a place to engage in a civil discussion of one's own views. I acknowledge that it is allowed to cite another forum as a point of reference. I do that along with many others. This will continue to be allowed.
  25. 4 points
    JoeMo

    The Little Horn, Daniel 7

    Okay - here's my 2 bits: The Bible is a book written by Israel, written about Israel, and written for Israel. It almost exclusively deals with various happenings in the Middle East, North Africa, and (later) parts of Europe. These folks had no idea about the existence of the Americas. So why would the scene suddenly change to America? How about a "beast closer to the Middle East and a much larger threat to Israel - like radical Islam? America is NOT the center of God's universe - Jerusalem (specifically the Temple Mount) is the center of God's universe. I won't even get into the ridiculous rant about President Trump. This isn't a political thread.
  26. 4 points
    Gail

    Dan Jackson's closing statements NAD, Nov 5, 2018

    Certainly that would allow divisions to take into consideration customs that are rooted. If change is needed then time is granted to make the changes in a way that the people can accept. Jesus did things that were against the norm of the day. He broke chains in unexpected ways and left the rule-keepers speechless. Politics make people angry.
  27. 4 points
    JoeMo

    Warning # 2

    I respect you for your honest confession, LR. If you can't feel safe to admit that you are not perfect to your Christian brothers and sisters, who can you talk to about it and get honest, Christ-centered support? I think if most of us were honest, we would have the same confession. I know I do. And if we are a Christ-centered community, we will encourage you on your walk, not criticize you. Your presence on this forum is valuable.
  28. 4 points
    Lone Ranger

    Warning # 2

    Speaking for myself, due to certain recent circumstances I was forced to take a hard look at my behavior, online and generally, in light of my claim/belief that I am a "Christian." I was not pleased. I have since determined to evaluate all intended actions and comments in light of my claimed beliefs. In fact, I now carry a small token with me every day and every time I see it I am remined that I claim to be a Christian, so act like it. I do not always succeed.
  29. 4 points
    Lone Ranger

    Reminder

    If you are soliciting responses, I would say that those who run this forum are the most level-headed and even-handed I have so far encountered on any forum. I have no issues with any actions on the part of the moderators/operators that I am aware of. Participation is entirely voluntary; if I do not like the way it is run it is my responsibility to stop participating here. It's that simple. Kodos. Good job. On a personal note, I easily loose interest in long posts, and get a bit cynical if I find a single user who dominates the forum. But that's just me.
  30. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Which is easier - to be saved, or to be lost?

    By default, with the sin of Adam, condemnation came to all. Romans 5:18 By default, with the death of Christ, salvation came to all. Romans 5:18 & 19 Salvation is ours to reject.
  31. 4 points
    JoeMo

    Kavanaugh Hearings

    Did anyone catch the hearings today? What a farce and a kangaroo court! Everyone (including Republicans) treated Ms. Ford with the utmost respect and courtesy. But when Kavanaugh came out, the Democrat's gloves came off. They treated an honorable and competent judge like some kind of a loathsome criminal, sex offender, and a hostile witness. They are asking Kavanaugh to prove he didn't do this. Anyone who has ever taken Philosophy 101 learned that it is impossible to prove a negative. Senator Lindsay Graham said it right when He called the Dem's tactics a scam and a stall tactic to take the confirmation past the 2018 elections. Let's see - Kavanaugh has letters signed by over 80 high school and college female friends saying the judge is completely honorably and respectful. Ms. Ford names three eye witnesses - all of whom refuted her testimony. Ms. Ford is a victim in this as well. The Dems set her up on a public soap box she never wanted. After watching those proceedings, I'm convinced satan must be a Democrat (no offense to my democrat friends).
  32. 4 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Apostolic Succession

    Yes, and it is quite probable that today Ellen White would not meet the standards of some to be and remain a member. E.G. She clearly taught, as I have quoted elsewhere, that she was not without error and that the Bible held authority over her writings. So, I guess that she could not be a member in some congregations based upon what you say.
  33. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    Truimp, Adventists and . . .

    President Trump, Adventists and evangelicals, see: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2019/evangelicals-president-trump-and-Adventists/ and https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2019/evangelicals-president-trump-and-adventists
  34. 3 points
    GHansen

    SDA Fundamentalism

    Kevin, I haven't addressed the issue of sports at all, nor have hermeneutics been an issue on this thread. Hermeneutics is about the proper interpretation of the Bible and here, for the most part, we are discussing historical theology. The thread on Romans 3:31 would have been a better place to bring up hermeneutics since that thread was about the meaning of Biblical texts. I will not descend into the Sr. White said this or that depths other than to say I have read in their entirety scores of her books, periodical articles, etc. i.e., I have looked at nearly "everything" she said on various topics. Her writings obviously have not been helpful since there exist numerous factions in the church, each with their own favorite quotes to support their position. Sometimes I still do topical studies in her writings which involve looking at hundreds of quotations. Unfortunately, EGW may have made relatively few statements on a given topic but one must plow thorough scores of repetitive quotes in various compilations to discover those few original quotes. Often, they are not helpful at all. To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what she said about this, that, or the other thing. People who do care have identified numerous ways she used Scripture. Rarely did it involve what today we would call exegesis or employ hermeneutical or linguistic principles. She used texts for illustrative purposes, devotionally, often without reference to the Biblical writers intended meaning or context. For example, she said "Transgression of the law is the only definition of sin in the Bible." This quote contributes to the legalistic miasma which permeates the denomination, since "law" is normally interpreted to refer to the Decalogue, which, in its immediate context, it does not. "Commandments" in the writings of John don't refer to the Decalogue, they refer to the teachings of Christ; nevertheless, numerous references to the "commandments" are wrested from their context and interpreted as the Decalogue by SDA. EGW hasn't prevented that, more likely, she contributed to it.
  35. 3 points
    JoeMo

    Who condemned Jesus?

    The Bible contains many stories of Jesus socializing with Pharisees. His greatest apostle was a Pharisee. I don't recall a single Bible story of Jesus socializing with Sadducees. Maybe it made Him sad, you see? If believe that Jesus may have identified with true Pharisees; while He reviled the hypocritical ones.
  36. 3 points
    james423

    Lesson 11 - The Seven Last Plagues

    Overall Question: What are the seven last plagues? How do they compare with the plagues that devastated the Egyptians who wouldn't let God's people leave Egypt? Note: these texts contain several complete chapters from Exodus. Memory Text: Revelation 15:4 New English Translation Who will not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name, because you alone are holy? All nations will come and worship before you for your righteous acts have been revealed. Sunday – The Meaning of the Seven Last Plagues Revelation 15:1 Holman Christian Standard Bible Then I saw another great and awe-inspiring sign in heaven: seven angels with the seven last plagues, for with them, God’s wrath will be completed. Exodus 7 Good News Translation The Lord said, “I am going to make you like God to the king, and your brother Aaron will speak to him as your prophet. 2 Tell Aaron everything I command you, and he will tell the king to let the Israelites leave his country. 3-4 But I will make the king stubborn, and he will not listen to you, no matter how many terrifying things I do in Egypt. Then I will bring severe punishment on Egypt and lead the tribes of my people out of the land. 5 The Egyptians will then know that I am the Lord, when I raise my hand against them and bring the Israelites out of their country.” 6 Moses and Aaron did what the Lord commanded. 7 At the time when they spoke to the king, Moses was eighty years old, and Aaron was eighty-three. 8 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 9 “If the king demands that you prove yourselves by performing a miracle, tell Aaron to take his walking stick and throw it down in front of the king, and it will turn into a snake.” 10 So Moses and Aaron went to the king and did as the Lord had commanded. Aaron threw his walking stick down in front of the king and his officers, and it turned into a snake. 11 Then the king called for his wise men and magicians, and by their magic they did the same thing. 12 They threw down their walking sticks, and the sticks turned into snakes. But Aaron's stick swallowed theirs. 13 The king, however, remained stubborn and, just as the Lord had said, the king would not listen to Moses and Aaron. 14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The king is very stubborn and refuses to let the people go. 15 So go and meet him in the morning when he goes down to the Nile. Take with you the walking stick that was turned into a snake, and wait for him on the riverbank. 16 Then say to the king, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, sent me to tell you to let his people go, so that they can worship him in the desert. But until now you have not listened. 17 Now, Your Majesty, the Lord says that you will find out who he is by what he is going to do. Look, I am going to strike the surface of the river with this stick, and the water will be turned into blood. 18 The fish will die, and the river will stink so much that the Egyptians will not be able to drink from it.’” 19 The Lord said to Moses, “Tell Aaron to take his stick and hold it out over all the rivers, canals, and pools in Egypt. The water will become blood, and all over the land there will be blood, even in the wooden tubs and stone jars.” 20 Then Moses and Aaron did as the Lord commanded. In the presence of the king and his officers, Aaron raised his stick and struck the surface of the river, and all the water in it was turned into blood. 21 The fish in the river died, and it smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink from it. There was blood everywhere in Egypt. 22 Then the king's magicians did the same thing by means of their magic, and the king was as stubborn as ever. Just as the Lord had said, the king refused to listen to Moses and Aaron. 23 Instead, he turned and went back to his palace without paying any attention even to this. 24 All the Egyptians dug along the bank of the river for drinking water, because they were not able to drink water from the river. 25 Seven days passed after the Lord struck the river. Exodus 8 Contemporary English Version 1 he said to Moses: Go to the palace and tell the king of Egypt that I order him to let my people go, so they can worship me. 2 If he refuses, I will cover his entire country with frogs. 3 Warn the king that the Nile will be full of frogs, and from there they will spread into the royal palace, including the king’s bedroom and even his bed. Frogs will enter the homes of his officials and will find their way into ovens and into the bowls of bread dough. 4 Frogs will be crawling on everyone—the king, his officials, and every citizen of Egypt. 5 Moses, now command Aaron to hold his stick over the water. Then frogs will come from all rivers, canals, and ponds in Egypt, and they will cover the land. 6 Aaron obeyed, and suddenly frogs were everywhere in Egypt. 7 But the magicians used their secret powers to do the same thing. 8 The king sent for Moses and Aaron and told them, “If you ask the Lord to take these frogs away from me and my people, I will let your people go and offer sacrifices to him.” 9 “All right,” Moses answered. “You choose the time when I am to pray for the frogs to stop bothering you, your officials, and your people, and for them to leave your houses and be found only in the river.” 10 “Do it tomorrow!” the king replied. “As you wish,” Moses agreed. “Then everyone will discover that there is no god like the Lord, 11 and frogs will no longer be found anywhere, except in the Nile.” 12 After Moses and Aaron left the palace, Moses begged the Lord to do something about the frogs he had sent as punishment for the king. 13 The Lord listened to Moses, and frogs died everywhere—in houses, yards, and fields. 14 The dead frogs were placed in piles, and the whole country began to stink. 15 But when the king saw that things were now better, he again did just as the Lord had said and stubbornly refused to listen to Moses and Aaron.16 The Lord said to Moses, “Command Aaron to strike the ground with his walking stick, and everywhere in Egypt the dust will turn into gnats.” 17 They obeyed, and when Aaron struck the ground with the stick, gnats started swarming on people and animals. In fact, every speck of dust in Egypt turned into a gnat. 18 When the magicians tried to use their secret powers to do this, they failed, and gnats stayed on people and animals. 19 The magicians told the king, “God has done this.” But, as the Lord had said, the king was too stubborn to listen. 20 The Lord said to Moses: Early tomorrow morning, while the king is on his way to the river, go and say to him, “The Lord commands you to let his people go, so they can worship him. 21 If you don’t, he will send swarms of flies to attack you, your officials, and every citizen of your country. Houses will be full of flies, and the ground will crawl with them. 22-23 “The Lord’s people in Goshen won’t be bothered by flies, but your people in the rest of the country will be tormented by them. That’s how you will know that the Lord is here in Egypt. This miracle will happen tomorrow.” 24 The Lord kept his promise—the palace and the homes of the royal officials swarmed with flies, and the rest of the country was infested with them as well. 25 Then the king sent for Moses and Aaron and told them, “Go sacrifice to your God, but stay here in Egypt.” 26 “That’s impossible!” Moses replied. “Any sacrifices we offer to the Lord our God would disgust the Egyptians, and they would stone us to death. 27 No indeed! The Lord has ordered us to walk three days into the desert before offering sacrifices to him, and that’s what we have to do.” 28 Then the king told him, “I’ll let you go into the desert to offer sacrifices, if you don’t go very far. But in the meantime, pray for me.” 29 “Your Majesty,” Moses replied, “I’ll pray for you as soon as I leave, and by tomorrow the flies will stop bothering you, your officials, and the citizens of your country. Only make sure that you’re telling the truth this time and that you really intend to let our people offer sacrifices to the Lord.” 30 After leaving the palace, Moses prayed, 31 and the Lord answered his prayer. Not a fly was left to pester the king, his officials, or anyone else in Egypt. 32 But the king turned stubborn again and would not let the people go. Exodus 9 New International Version Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.” 2 If you refuse to let them go and continue to hold them back, 3 the hand of the Lord will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field—on your horses, donkeys and camels and on your cattle, sheep and goats. 4 But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt, so that no animal belonging to the Israelites will die.’” 5 The Lord set a time and said, “Tomorrow the Lord will do this in the land.” 6 And the next day the Lord did it: All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the Israelites died. 7 Pharaoh investigated and found that not even one of the animals of the Israelites had died. Yet his heart was unyielding and he would not let the people go. 8 Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Take handfuls of soot from a furnace and have Moses toss it into the air in the presence of Pharaoh. 9 It will become fine dust over the whole land of Egypt, and festering boils will break out on people and animals throughout the land.” 10 So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on people and animals. 11 The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians.12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses. 13 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, 14 or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. 15 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. 16 But I have raised you up[a] for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 17 You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go. 18 Therefore, at this time tomorrow I will send the worst hailstorm that has ever fallen on Egypt, from the day it was founded till now. 19 Give an order now to bring your livestock and everything you have in the field to a place of shelter, because the hail will fall on every person and animal that has not been brought in and is still out in the field, and they will die.’” 20 Those officials of Pharaoh who feared the word of the Lord hurried to bring their slaves and their livestock inside. 21 But those who ignored the word of the Lord left their slaves and livestock in the field. 22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that hail will fall all over Egypt—on people and animals and on everything growing in the fields of Egypt.” 23 When Moses stretched out his staff toward the sky, the Lord sent thunder and hail, and lightning flashed down to the ground. So the Lord rained hail on the land of Egypt; 24 hail fell and lightning flashed back and forth. It was the worst storm in all the land of Egypt since it had become a nation. 25 Throughout Egypt hail struck everything in the fields—both people and animals; it beat down everything growing in the fields and stripped every tree. 26 The only place it did not hail was the land of Goshen, where the Israelites were. 27 Then Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron. “This time I have sinned,” he said to them. “The Lord is in the right, and I and my people are in the wrong. 28 Pray to the Lord, for we have had enough thunder and hail. I will let you go; you don’t have to stay any longer.” 29 Moses replied, “When I have gone out of the city, I will spread out my hands in prayer to the Lord. The thunder will stop and there will be no more hail, so you may know that the earth is the Lord’s. 30 But I know that you and your officials still do not fear the Lord God.” 31 (The flax and barley were destroyed, since the barley had headed and the flax was in bloom. 32 The wheat and spelt, however, were not destroyed, because they ripen later.) 33 Then Moses left Pharaoh and went out of the city. He spread out his hands toward the Lord; the thunder and hail stopped, and the rain no longer poured down on the land. 34 When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. 35 So Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the Lord had said through Moses. Exodus 10 Easy-to-Read Version The Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh. I have made him and his officials stubborn. I did this so that I could show them my powerful miracles. 2 I also did this so that you could tell your children and your grandchildren about the miracles and other wonderful things that I have done in Egypt. Then all of you will know that I am the Lord.” 3 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh. They told him, “The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says, ‘How long will you refuse to obey me? Let my people go to worship me! 4 If you refuse to let my people go, then tomorrow I will bring locusts into your country. 5 The locusts will cover the land. There will be so many locusts that you will not be able to see the ground. Anything that was left from the hailstorm will be eaten by the locusts. The locusts will eat all the leaves from every tree in the field. 6 They will fill all your houses, and all your officials’ houses, and all the houses in Egypt. There will be more locusts than your fathers or your grandfathers have ever seen. There will be more locusts than there have ever been since people began living in Egypt.’” Then Moses turned and left Pharaoh. 7 Then the officials asked Pharaoh, “How long will we be trapped by these people? Let the men go to worship the Lord their God. If you don’t let them go, before you know it, Egypt will be destroyed!” 8 So Pharaoh told his officials to bring Moses and Aaron back to him. Pharaoh said to them, “Go and worship the Lord your God. But tell me, just who is going?” 9 Moses answered, “All of our people, young and old, will go. And we will take our sons and daughters, and our sheep and cattle with us. We will all go because the Lord’s festival is for all of us.” 10 Pharaoh said to them, “The Lord really will have to be with you before I let you and all of your children leave Egypt. Look, you are planning something evil. 11 The men can go worship the Lord. That is what you asked for in the beginning. But all of your people cannot go.” Then Pharaoh sent Moses and Aaron away. 12 The Lord told Moses, “Raise your hand over the land of Egypt and the locusts will come! They will spread all over the land of Egypt and will eat all the plants that the hail did not destroy.” 13 So Moses raised his walking stick over the land of Egypt, and the Lord caused a strong wind to blow from the east. The wind blew all that day and night. When morning came, the wind had brought the locusts to the land of Egypt. 14 The locusts flew into the country of Egypt and landed on the ground. There were more locusts than there had ever been in Egypt. And there will never again be that many locusts there. 15 They covered the ground, and the whole country became dark. The locusts ate every plant on the ground and all the fruit in the trees that the hail had not destroyed. There were no leaves left on any of the trees or plants anywhere in Egypt. 16 Pharaoh quickly called for Moses and Aaron. Pharaoh said, “I have sinned against the Lord your God and against you. 17 Now, forgive me for my sins this time. Ask the Lord to remove this ‘death’ from me.” 18 Moses left Pharaoh and prayed to the Lord. 19 So the Lord changed the wind. He made a very strong wind blow from the west, and it blew the locusts out of Egypt and into the Red Sea. Not one locust was left in Egypt! 20 But the Lord caused Pharaoh to be stubborn again, and Pharaoh did not let the Israelites go. 21 Then the Lord told Moses, “Raise your hand into the air and darkness will cover Egypt. It will be so dark you can feel it!” 22 So Moses raised his hand into the air and a cloud of darkness covered Egypt. The darkness stayed in Egypt for three days. 23 None of the people could see each other, and no one got up to go any place for three days. But there was light in all the places where the Israelites lived. 24 Again Pharaoh called for Moses. He said, “Go and worship the Lord! You can take your children with you. But you must leave your sheep and cattle here.” 25 Moses said, “No, we will take them all. In fact, you will give us offerings and sacrifices for us to use in worshiping the Lord our God. 26 Yes, we will take our animals with us to worship the Lord our God. Not one hoof will be left behind. We don’t know yet exactly what we will need to worship the Lord. We will learn that only when we get there.” 27 The Lord made Pharaoh stubborn again, so he refused to let them go. 28 Then Pharaoh told Moses, “Get out of here. I don’t want you to come here again. The next time you come to see me, you will die!” 29 Then Moses told Pharaoh, “You are right about one thing. I will not come to see you again.” Exodus 11 New Living Translation Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will strike Pharaoh and the land of Egypt with one more blow. After that, Pharaoh will let you leave this country. In fact, he will be so eager to get rid of you that he will force you all to leave. 2 Tell all the Israelite men and women to ask their Egyptian neighbors for articles of silver and gold.” 3 (Now the Lord had caused the Egyptians to look favorably on the people of Israel. And Moses was considered a very great man in the land of Egypt, respected by Pharaoh’s officials and the Egyptian people alike.) 4 Moses had announced to Pharaoh, “This is what the Lord says: At midnight tonight I will pass through the heart of Egypt. 5 All the firstborn sons will die in every family in Egypt, from the oldest son of Pharaoh, who sits on his throne, to the oldest son of his lowliest servant girl who grinds the flour. Even the firstborn of all the livestock will die. 6 Then a loud wail will rise throughout the land of Egypt, a wail like no one has heard before or will ever hear again. 7 But among the Israelites it will be so peaceful that not even a dog will bark. Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between the Egyptians and the Israelites. 8 All the officials of Egypt will run to me and fall to the ground before me. ‘Please leave!’ they will beg. ‘Hurry! And take all your followers with you.’ Only then will I go!” Then, burning with anger, Moses left Pharaoh. 9 Now the Lord had told Moses earlier, “Pharaoh will not listen to you, but then I will do even more mighty miracles in the land of Egypt.” 10 Moses and Aaron performed these miracles in Pharaoh’s presence, but the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he wouldn’t let the Israelites leave the country. Revelation 15:5-8 Common English Bible 5 After this I looked, and the temple in heaven—that is, the tent of witness—was opened. 6 The seven angels, who have the seven plagues, came out of the temple. They were clothed in pure bright linen and had gold sashes around their waists. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave the seven angels seven gold bowls full of the anger of the God who lives forever and always. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from God’s glory and power, and no one could go into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven last angels were brought to an end. Exodus 40:34-35 Christian Standard Bible 34 The cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses was unable to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud rested on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 1 Kings 8:10-11 English Standard Version 10 And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. Monday – The Outpouring of the Last Plagues Revelation 16:1-11 Easy-to-Read Version Then I heard a loud voice from the temple. It said to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the seven bowls of God’s anger on the earth.” 2 The first angel left. He poured out his bowl on the land. Then all those who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped its idol got sores that were ugly and painful. 3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea. Then the sea became blood like a dead man’s blood. And everything living in the sea died. 4 The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and the springs of water. The rivers and the springs of water became blood. 5 Then I heard the angel of the waters say to God, “You are the one who is and who always was. You are the Holy One. You are right in these judgments you have made. 6 The people have spilled the blood of your holy people and your prophets. Now you have given those people blood to drink. This is what they deserve.” 7 And I heard the altar say, “Yes, Lord God All-Powerful, your judgments are true and right.” 8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun. The sun was given power to burn the people with fire. 9 The people were burned by the great heat. They cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues. But they refused to change their hearts and lives and give glory to God. 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast. And darkness covered the beast’s kingdom. People bit their tongues because of the pain. 11 They cursed the God of heaven because of their pain and the sores they had. But they refused to change their hearts and turn away from the evil things they did. Tuesday – Drying Up the Euphrates River Revelation 16:12 New Living Translation Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great Euphrates River, and it dried up so that the kings from the east could march their armies toward the west without hindrance. Revelation 17:1 New Century Version Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke to me. He said, “Come, and I will show you the punishment that will be given to the great prostitute, the one sitting over many waters. Revelation 17:15 God’s Word Translation The angel also said to me, “The waters you saw, on which the prostitute is sitting, are people, crowds, nations, and languages. Wednesday – Satan’s Last Great Deception Revelation 16:13-14 New International Reader’s Version Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs. They came out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet. 14 They are spirits of demons that perform signs. They go out to gather the kings of the whole world for battle. This battle will take place on the great day of the God who rules over all. 1 Timothy 4:1 New Living Translation Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. Thursday – Gathering for the Battle of Armageddon Revelation 16:16 Modern English Version They gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
  37. 3 points
    Kevin H

    The Closing of a Texas Church

    Despite being the father of lies, Satan ultimately does not usually cause blatant lies but he likes to divide the truth in approximately half and use it against the rest of the truth. People tend to be attracted to either the one side or the other and Satan is willing to accommodate them and make them comfortable. As Jesus said the truth is straight and narrow, and few people like the straight and narrow, they are so comfortable in one ditch or the other. I do have to apologize for not pointing out that my big issue with both Ford and many of the people who believe what you described this group as teaching tend to be quite dogmatic in their heresies demanding the rest of the church to follow suit, which is unscrupulous to take money from the church to have that spirit of grabbing the rest of us by the button hole and making the demands whether it's against the Investigative Judgment like Ford did, or the points of this church. I would have a much different opinion of both groups if they would be less dogmatic but were to have a spirit of "I know that Adventism has different views and I will share my understanding but study and listen to our collective understanding of Seventh-day Adventism. Follow what you understand, have listening love for the others. While there will be things different pastors say that you would like, let's not form into major political parties. We should be only a political party of two, you and Jesus.
  38. 3 points
    Kevin H

    Desmond Ford, part 2, Changes in the Church

    Very interesting articles. I'm not just sure how to comment, so please forgive this awkward attempt, but too much of the church still wants it to be basically the two views of Ford on one side and the so called "Historic Adventists" on the other. And I feel that some of the other perspectives tend to be getting over looked Ford's view tends to be more focused on modern "evangelical Christianity" where there is a set of "Christian" traditions that we find in like "Bible Colleges" and a more sticky sweet Jesusie and who's scholarship tends to be focused on how the Bible was interpreted by Christians over Church history, especially the reformers. Their whole approach tends to be more devotional and not digging very deeply. The so called "Historic Adventists" have another set of traditions which was repeated in these articles. Besides Ford and the so called "Historic Adventists" there is the Adventist Theological Society. The ATS is/was first of all one option between Ford and the "Historic Adventists" The big difference is that they are more exegetical/Biblical Theology (think William Foxwell Albright and archaeology) than Ford and the Historical Adventists. Now all three of these groups tend to be very forensic in their view of salvation and they also tend to be quite fundamentalists in their approaches. Then we also have the subgroups who tend to be non-forensic and more or less anti-Fundamentalists. We have say Alden Thompson and the theology department from Walla Walla, the "Larger View" people from California (Graham Maxwell and company) and the views from the theology department from Atlantic Union College from the mid 1970s to mid 1980s (John Wood, James Valentine, Dean Davis, George Rice) who like the ATS was very exegetical/Biblical Theology, but did not cling to all the traditions that the ATS would cling to. All of these perspectives of Adventism had different perspectives of 1844, and while I pointed out these specific subgroups, they are reflections of ideas that stem from the late 1800s and early 1900s. At times we learned how to play together. But our problems come when one or another of these groups see themselves as being the "True Adventists" and want to force their particular flavor of Adventism on all the rest of us.
  39. 3 points
    Bravus

    More on DEsmond Ford, Part 1

    I think it's important to distinguish between the two separate questions: 1. Was Desmond Ford doctrinally, scripturally correct? 2. Was Desmond Ford a good human being, Christian and Seventh-day Adventist? I encountered him myself, growing up around Avondale College, and have many, many friends who know him well, including people who taught with him and studied under him. Every single person I know would say a fervent 'Yes!' on the second question, no matter what their position on the first.
  40. 3 points
    JoeMo

    A Personal Anouncemenet

    Rats! And I just sent a $100,000 check to seed your campaign! Can you just tear it up when you get it? I hope I sent it to the right address in Boulder.
  41. 3 points
    B/W Photodude

    The Little Horn--More

    I have heard of some of your strange prophecies and reportedly, they have not come true. If I had made a prophecy of serious importance and it did not come true, I don't think I would again prophesy. I am not sure you are one to rebuke. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deut 18:20-22
  42. 3 points
    8thdaypriest

    A couple questions on God's plan of salvation

    I believe that God the Father sent His Son to "save" human beings, and to SECURE His entire universal kingdom (which includes spirit beings). The created spirit beings did NOT fully UNDERSTAND the ugliness and awfulness of rebellion against the Creator. For the entire created universe to be SECURE forever, they needed to understand how a tiny seed of rebellion, could grow to destroy the entire creation. The created spirit beings had to have questions. Most chose to remain loyal to the Creator - but they did have questions. Those questions had to be answered, in order to SECURE God's creation for eternity. Whether you call that "saving" some spirit beings, or simply securing their loyalty - either way - Christ died to demonstrate God's love - for EVERY CREATED BEING, not just His love for humans.
  43. 3 points
    Lone Ranger

    The Little Horn, Daniel 7

    I have for some time thought that the standard SDA escatology needed revision: this is one of the things that initially put me at odds with the "the brethren." And I thought that this article showed signs of doing that. I was disappointed. On several counts. The authors, (who have wisely and justifiably remained anonymous) have followed the same pattern of interpreting Dan/Rev. as the early church pioneers, in that they have applied the prophecies to their current political/social/economic landscape. It is "Americentric." Meaning that, in keeping with the Trump doctrine of the primacy of the US in everything, it ignores the political/social/economic landscape of the rest of the world. If the Bible is for ALL humanity, IMO any prophecies contained in it should be "interpreted" globally, and not simply nationally, (This is the same trap that Henry His Child has fallen into.) It does not address large sections of the prophecies. (For example, the details) IMO, the Bible, being a Spiritual book, addresses spiritual issues. Yes, political entities play a role, but the article does not mention any (OK, few) religious applications. It's all about the US and Donald Trump. There is another entity that fits the prophecies a lot closer, and No, it is NOT the Pope and /or the Catholic church. The above is my opinion based on....my opinion. Just my two-bits...
  44. 3 points
    JoeMo

    Dan Jackson's closing statements NAD, Nov 5, 2018

    I appreciate him standing up for the equality of women and their rights in western culture. I also respect the feelings of those in other cultures where women are "less equal" than men. That's why I think the compromise should be as Elder Jackson proposed - let individual Divisions (or Unions or Conferences) decide for themselves on women elders and pastors. There will always be those on both sides of the fence no matter what the church does. But like I said before - this issue is not going to impact my faith or relationship with Christ or anyone else watching this forum.
  45. 3 points
    Gregory Matthews

    So Busy

  46. 3 points
    8thdaypriest

    Kavanaugh Hearings

    My hubby is NOT one to be much interested in politics. He has watched the Kavanaugh hearings with interest. I asked him why - a few minutes ago. He said he thinks most men are interested, because substituting "guilty by accusation" for "innocent until proven guilty" would change our nation profoundly - FOR MEN. Said, "No one will be safe." Confirming Kavanaugh will uphold IUPG.
  47. 3 points
    rudywoofs (Pam)

    Kavanaugh Hearings

    and you base your *facts* on what? That he "finally* gave an emotional rebuttal after being harassed and accused and bullied for weeks and weeks and weeks by Democrat mudslingers of the 1st order — both in congress and in the media? It's all in what you choose to believe about a person. And, apparently, you choose to believe the worst about a person. Judges, even Supreme Court judges, are not God. None of them are perfect. None of them are without partisanship in one manner or another. Expecting God-like qualities from *anyone* as a prerequisite of fitness is nonsense. Nay, it's more than nonsense.... it's juvenile whining from adults who are apparently unable to understand that life is neither fair nor perfect. Just makes me sick the way Democrats are treating Kavanaugh and the Congressmen (and others) who support him. It's absolutely shameful. And the [mostly] female bullies yelling and shouting and making total a$$es of themselves by getting in the faces of those with whom they disagree are doing nothing to further the cause of abused women and men in society. They've turned it into a *political* issue, when it indeed is not.
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