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Coffee - Health Food!


Tom Wetmore

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Steve Murphy

How long can I continue to belong to this organization without having to give myself a lobotomy?

aldona

lol....I understand what you're saying.

Here's what you can do:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus Phl 2:5

Jesus dealt with this kind of stuff all the time.....

Matt. 23:23, Jesus, rebuking the Pharisees, says, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

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A slightly different spin on my question, Redwood. My point was that Ellen White was herself relying on medical science - the medical science of the 19th century - when she made the statements she did. She said using coffee was a sin *because* it was considered medically harmful. If the medical science of the 21st century suggests it is not harmful, does that change the way we think about what she said?

Or of course, you *could* just make it a loyalty test...

Maybe I was mistaken ... but I thought it was God that inspired Ellen White to say what was "sin" rather than medical science. Actually I think that medical science did not recognize that tobacco and coffee was harmful during Ellen White's time.

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Caffiene is a toxin, a foreign substance. The body has no use for this toxin, and in fact, there is enough caffiene in 1-cup of coffee to kill you. Believe that, or not?

120-milligrams. Inject that into the bloodstream and you're gonna die.

"B-bbut I've been drinking the stuff for years and it hasn't KILLED me!" That is true. In fact you (hypothetical you) have come to depend upon it for stimulation. You get up in the morning, groggy from a toxic lifestyle, and you say "I have a coffee deficiency!" So you get a cup of it. What happens?

It hits the stomach and the stomach hollers over to the adrenal glands "We've got a crisis on our hands!" A poison has just invaded our system."

The adrenal glands quickly start dumping sugar into the bloodstream and rev up the metabolism to fight this mortal battle. It's life or death, now.

After a while, the stomach processes the liquid and eventually sends the toxin (caffiene) off to the liver. "Here, you take care of this."

The liver says "Ok, but I need some calcium to neutralize this poison. Where's the calcium?"

Stomach says "I sent you everything I had."

"Yes, but I need calcium to neutralize this stuff so we don't all die."

"Sorry."

The liver goes to the bones "Knock, knock!"

"Yes?"

It's me--liver. I need to borrow some calcium, and quick!"

"Sorry. You did that yesterday, and the day before that and the day before that and we have serious holes developing in our bones..."

"Yes, but I HAVE TO HAVE IT NOW!"

"Okay, if you want it that bad...but you've gotta PAY IT BACK! One of these days I won't have anything left to give.."

"I'll pay it back" the liver promises (he has good intentions, and he's counting on you-know-who to stop destroying the body).

Liver processes the toxin (poison), neutralizes it with calcium and sends it off to the urinary tract. Everything's fine right?

No. The bank account just got a little more depleted.

You can check the urine of the average person in any western society, and you will find more calcium in their urine than you find in their diet on any given day. What is happening?

American are consuming in record numbers substances that rob calcium from the body. Caffiene is a major cause of this, along with red meat, etc..

God in his goodness sent truths that would bless His Advent people in all areas of their life. When we began to resent His boundaries and abandon them, He will ultimately find others who will walk where He asks.

(As to Redwood's question. I have never seen anyone disfellowshipped for being addicted to coffee). I have seen them reap some consequences of their choices, like my osteoporotic mother-in-law, and arthritic brother-in-laws.

The choice is ours.

Warm regards,

olger

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Good Observation Olger. I think it is only nicotine that causes people to be kicked out of the church usually .... as far as Health concerns. I guess smoking is a more obvious sin compared to coffee.

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I'm still kinda stuck on the image of God appearing in a blaze of glory to EGW and saying 'coffee is sin!'

I was wondering on the way in whether God requires us to turn off our minds and slavishly follow the words. Apparently he does. Wonder why he gave us them, then?

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Hey ... Pam.

Is that coffee that you have in your hand?

I don't drink coffee. But for the sake of unity ... I may be willing to share some with you.

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I don't believe drinking coffee is a sin. Just as I don't believe that not being a vegetarian is a sin. We have a health message that we can either follow or not. But science alone can't over ride God's words through Ellen. It would have to be a new message from a new prophet don't you think? Or shall we all just scoff at the health message?

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I don't believe drinking coffee is a sin. Just as I don't believe that not being a vegetarian is a sin. We have a health message that we can either follow or not. But science alone can't over ride God's words through Ellen. It would have to be a new message from a new prophet don't you think? Or shall we all just scoff at the health message?

I am just curious Amelia .... Since Ellen White says that coffee and meat eating are "sins". What do you do with that? Do you still believe in other things that Ellen White has to say?

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It would be helpful, if someone is quoting EGW or any other author, to actually have a cite we could study. Redwood, can you provide that, with an excerpt of what she wrote?

Dave

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Counsels on Diet and Foods

Quote:
PHYSICIANS TO EDUCATE AWAY FROM, BUT NOT TO MAKE PRESCRIPTIONS FORBIDDING USE OF FLESH MEAT--434, 438

*sorry the origonal text was all in caps

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Counsels on Health

Quote:
I frequently sit down to the tables of the brethren and sisters, and see that they use a great amount of milk and sugar. These clog the system, irritate the digestive organs, and affect the brain. Anything that hinders the active motion of the living machinery affects the brain very directly. And from the light given me, sugar, when largely used, is more injurious than meat

ergo, sugar is a sin.

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Testimony Studies on Diet and Foods (1926), page 121, paragraph 4

Quote:
Large quantities of milk and sugar eaten together are injurious. They impart impurities to the system. Animals from which milk is obtained are not always healthy. Could we know that animals were in perfect health, I would recommend that people eat flesh-meats sooner than large quantities of milk and sugar. It would not do the injury that milk and sugar do.
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It would be helpful, if someone is quoting EGW or any other author, to actually have a cite we could study. Redwood, can you provide that, with an excerpt of what she wrote?

Dave

I'm sorry David .... I assumed that you had been reading this thread from the beginning. Look back at my previous posts for the cite.

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Ellen G. White Volume 2 The Progressive Years 1862-1876-page 304, paragraph 2

Quote:
Meat I am decided does us no good, but only harm, except a person who is robbed of vitality may need a little meat to stimulate a few times.

Sooooo God had nothing to do with it at all?

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Ellen G. White Volume 2 The Progressive Years 1862-1876-page 304, paragraph 2

Quote:
Meat I am decided does us no good, but only harm, except a person who is robbed of vitality may need a little meat to stimulate a few times.

Sooooo God had nothing to do with it at all?

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My point was that, absent a direct vision, EGW was pronouncing on coffee as a minister, rather than as a prophet, and that ministry was informed by the science of the day. It also means (IMO) that she is not more infallible than other ministers on this point. And that God doesn't have to send us a prophet to change this pronouncement. EGW ate pork and seafood early in her ministry, and changed later. If she'd lived until now, she may have changed further.

If it's a loyalty test - a badge of club membership - that's fine. If it's a health issue, that's fine too, except when it's no longer a health issue. If it's a spiritual issue independent of its health status...

Enjoy the discussion: I have no barrow to push except the notion that God is a God of reason, who has invited us to reason together. (Hmm, think I'll start a new thread on that topic.)

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I looked up coffee in the estate library and couldn't find any text where Ellen stated it was a sin. And you are correct Bravus, there isnt a direct vision on this subject.

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Quote:
Do we rely on medical science or Ellen White?

Silly - she told you to use the best evidence available, just like she did.

She didn't get most of this health-stuff from God, she got it from friends and associates who were interested in the topic

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Look back at my previous posts for the cite.

I did before, and I just checked again. Perhaps I missed something? If you did give a cite, specifically as to the issue of coffee drinking being a sin, of similar magnitude to adultery, I believe you said, then please be so kind as to backquote it here. Hmmmmm . . . I know about the seven deadly sins. This is interesting.

Dave

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Oops, this topic has gotten too long. I must stop looking at it and close my eyes for awhile, because I have seen way too much and EGW said that excessive seeing is a sin... Of course if I close my eyes now I may fall asleep and sleep more than the required 8 hours. If I sleep too long I'm in trouble because EGW also said excessive indulgence in sleeping is a sin...

I think I will have to shut down my brain for a little while so I don't commit the sin of mental gluttony... yes, she said it is as much a sin to overfeed the mind as it is to overfeed the stomach... "Teacher, teacher, may I be excused from class today. My brain is full."

I wonder what else she called a sin?

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