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Bravus

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[quote name="Neil

....Kinda takes the wind out of the joking sails.....

Redwood, I think you understand, but in case you don't, regarding my post to you....

YOu don't resemble that at all....In fact, I have great admiration for what you are doing and your determination to be a peace maker on this forum.

Perhaps I should have been more liberal in my praise of you, to provide a plain and concrete idea of where I was coming from, so that when I did make these type of remarks, it would be viewed as absolutely ludicrious....

At anyrate, my appologies if my post caused you any hurt....[/

quote]

Neil. No problem from this end. I totally understand. I have great appreciation for your humor. I didn't take it wrong personally. I've learned much about your particular style. I now appreciate it. As you know there was a time when I didn't. The only difficulty with the humor that you and I enjoy ... is that not everyone understands it when we are bantering around. I suppose that over time they will. But not sure what to do with the here and now.

But thanks for clarifying for all to see. I would not want to change you ... for you add much to the "fun" side of Club Adventist. Thanks for that.

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Hi David:

I'm sorry that you have experienced the personal abuses that you cited.

I must question if legal suits are the solution for a spiritual issue. Spiritual issues are best solved by God's spiritual solutions (Ephesians 4:31, 32).

Best wishes,

olger

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David Koot

The No Libel seems simple enough but Libel means writing false statements about another. There is an accurate definition of that here. One of them is accusing a person falsely of a crime. Or having a loathsome disease.

For instance of someone accused you of having Aids or Leprosy you would have a case. If someone accused you of hacking into someone computers falsely as was done to me then you would also have a case.

Or accusing you falsely to your employor of acts that could get you fired as what happened to me then YES BY ALL MEANS YOU HAVE A CASE.

However if all what happened to me has stayed on this forum I may have left but not filed a lawsuit. This type of bullying is happening all over the internet. It is one it invades the private life or endangers one livelyhood that the courts take a higher interest in.

Most of us do not give an ounce of credance to all the BS that is said on this forum about other people. Most of us are intelligent to realize that people lie or exaggerate and unless we can see it for ourselves we do not remember it a week later.

So I would suggest that unless these lies affect your job or ability to make a living in the real world then maybe it is not worth it

A lawsuit would cost $10,000 seed money to just start a lawsuit. It could cost you $100,000 or more. Now most likely the other person would not have the money to make it worth your while to sue. After all would you want to risk loseing spending $100,000 or more and only get $10,000 because the other guy is not rich and increased in goods. Think about that. I have researched that. Is it really worth it to you. For me if it was my job by all means it is worth it. But just because you got your feathers ruffled on the internet. Is your pride worth $100,000 dollars or more. Maybe even $1,000,000 dollars? Lawyers charge $300 to $600 an hour. The cost would go up fast.

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Perhaps a simpler rule is 'no going Real Life'. i.e. what happens on the forum stays on the forum. I would be very happy for a strong ban for anyone who takes actions, like contacting employers (or spouses for that matter) in ways that could have real-life consequences.

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Perhaps a simpler rule is 'no going Real Life'. i.e. what happens on the forum stays on the forum. I would be very happy for a strong ban for anyone who takes actions, like contacting employers (or spouses for that matter) in ways that could have real-life consequences.

What a interesting number of posts after the rather eloquent pleas to stop.

Bravus,when everyone with so much to offer on this topic and believing they know all and have in their possession the facts to make an accurate statement and I might add judgement, their judgement might carry more weight.

When you say real life and forum life,consider what happens when

forum life does affect real life.

The two are not always/were seperate. If you have the facts, or anyone else having a full possession of the facts as past events of any issue unfolded, then perhaps you have the right and may be even the obligation to render a forceful opinion. You are lacking them as are all others.

If I am wrong,and you are in possession of the facts to critize or wish penalty for anyone doing this, then perhaps you want to explain how you are in possession of these facts. Incidences that have occurred in the lives of others. Please also it would be enlightening for me to hear you at least say you have them and know what occurred that preceeded actions by anyone.

Reasons for actions that you find so objectionable.

That I would believe might be anticipated for a man that has many times explained how fair he attempts to be.

What do you know and how did you obtain records and facts of any event leading going to any employer.

Besides,some that are voicing such a problem with it and offering advice have done the very same

Now continue on all in the desire to bring some of this to an end.

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bonnie, my friend, you *really* need to realise that not everything is about you. I was making a general comment on the rules for the forum, which is the focus of this thread. As far as I'm concerned your specific issue is in the far past and should be left there.

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Quote:
So, Stan, to answer your question on point . . . two rules, evenly enforced, would have dealt with this travesty:

1) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

2) NO LIBEL

It has always been the OTHER person who does the personal attacks.

It is never even handed when it comes to the person receive the works..

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Stan,

Now that you have been chastised and threatened...What'cha goin'na do? Quick, run for the mountains!

Originally Posted By: CoAspen
Stan,

Now that you have been chastised and threatened...What'cha goin'na do? Quick, run for the mountains!

So are you saying there is personal attacking going on against me :)

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bonnie, my friend, you *really* need to realise that not everything is about you. I was making a general comment on the rules for the forum, which is the focus of this thread. As far as I'm concerned your specific issue is in the far past and should be left there.

Yes, I am sure we can all pretend. The fact of the matter is that you responded to cyberguy and his continuing on the topic of someone being reported to his boss. Yes, that specific issue should be in the far past.It is not. If any of the participants in a particular issue bring up and continue to expound on the issue it is not in the past. Please keep in mind I did not bring this up. I also agreed to stop. As a participant in what occurred there would be little I could say without it being obvious I wanted to bring it to the front of everyone's mind. I have said nothing since I believe yesterday.

I agreed with david. It is still continuing by one of the participants to the"sin" that needs discplinary action Perhaps what I need to do is keep posting and alluding to, pretending it is just a general concern

Aside from that what I responded to was your rather strong opinion of what should happen to those that do what is being objected to. It doesn't make it any more about me than Bruce's continued pushing on the issue of being reported to an employer.

Doesn't change the fact. At time forum life does affect personal life and requires something be done.

Doesn't matter who and when that happens. What does matter before anyone is so strongly condemned those doing so know exactly what they are condemning. Otherwise you cannot possibly know whether a certain action taken by anyone deserves your desired penalty or not.

Forum life is a great pretend life for many. Gives them an opportunity to be someone they are not. When that pretend gets out of hand and intrudes and affects real life then you have a differnt issue.

How often have I read on this forum "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Those that have never reported another to a employer, confernce,church may not have "the sin" on their doorstep"

However for those that have they need to clean their own doorstep first. And yes, they are very vocal on the subject and what a terrible thing to do

Without ever being placed in the position of doing this you may feel you know it is never right or necessary. But before making recommendations concerning actions taken by any one it would be well to have that based on well founded fact

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One other general comment in relation to the rules. I'm not sure how to phrase it as a rule, but there have been particular individuals who have said (my paraphrase) 'Oh, I get banned for things that other people do all the time'. I believe this is a pre-emptive attempt to influence the administration into bending over backwards to prove that wrong by *not* banning these individuals. But that's not a fair or appropriate way of proceeding: a bannable offence for one person should be the same as for another person.

A corollary of that, though, is that it won't always be *seen* that way: there will always be people who believe they have been harshly or unfairly treated. In the final analysis, the admin team just has to be convinced in their own minds, possibly with the counsel of respected others, that justice has been done.

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Well, bonnie, my motives were as stated. If you wish to claim that they weren't, then your claim is either that I'm lying about my motives or personally deluded about my motives. Either claim would count as a personal attack, but I'm really not interested in making an issue of it, except to state again that I could not possibly know less or care less about the history between you and Bruce. I'm interested in how to have a working forum in the future.

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One other general comment in relation to the rules. I'm not sure how to phrase it as a rule, but there have been particular individuals who have said (my paraphrase) 'Oh, I get banned for things that other people do all the time'. I believe this is a pre-emptive attempt to influence the administration into bending over backwards to prove that wrong by *not* banning these individuals. But that's not a fair or appropriate way of proceeding: a bannable offence for one person should be the same as for another person.

A corollary of that, though, is that it won't always be *seen* that way: there will always be people who believe they have been harshly or unfairly treated. In the final analysis, the admin team just has to be convinced in their own minds, possibly with the counsel of respected others, that justice has been done.

You may be right. I am sure people see that differently. My major issue in this is that it even came up for discussion. Many accusations were leveled of things that cannot be proven without producing records. I have no desire to do that. There might come a time in situaations like this that it is necessary. I backed off and felt that it might quit as that seemed to be david's direction in his thinking. Prior to that, I was told point blank to stop. I had. Didn't help. Following the Bonnie Stop, the very same participants kept right at it.

This could lead one to believe the objection here is if there is a rebuttal, not what was being said

If we are going to play the pretend game or if this is general only and someone just now thought it was a good idea, so be it.

Then those that have leveled accusations and a one sided version of same events, the same that brought this on, need to stay out of this discussion, or more to the point away from this specific issue.

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Well, bonnie, my motives were as stated. If you wish to claim that they weren't, then your claim is either that I'm lying about my motives or personally deluded about my motives. Either claim would count as a personal attack, but I'm really not interested in making an issue of it, except to state again that I could not possibly know less or care less about the history between you and Bruce. I'm interested in how to have a working forum in the future.

I am not personally attacking you. Sorry if you think that is what I did. it was not intended to come across that way.

I do think we all would have to play pretend to believe bruce's statement was directed at an imaginary person.A response to bruce was a response to bruce's personal situation in this, and I was part of that personal situation, at least from my seat.

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Well, bonnie, my motives were as stated. If you wish to claim that they weren't, then your claim is either that I'm lying about my motives or personally deluded about my motives. Either claim would count as a personal attack, but I'm really not interested in making an issue of it, except to state again that I could not possibly know less or care less about the history between you and Bruce. I'm interested in how to have a working forum in the future.
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I do think we all would have to play pretend to believe bruce's statement was directed at an imaginary person.A response to bruce was a response to bruce's personal situation in this, and I was part of that personal situation, at least from my seat.

This is disturbing...this retoric...always about Bonnie..always about her accusations...always about her....

How can we move past this, when we are always replying to her retoric...?

Either we call for a ban on Bonnie's posting...or we ignore her retoric and deal with the problems at hand....

I personally want to deal with the problems at hand....and move beyond Bonnie...

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Originally Posted By: bonnie

I do think we all would have to play pretend to believe bruce's statement was directed at an imaginary person.A response to bruce was a response to bruce's personal situation in this, and I was part of that personal situation, at least from my seat.

This is disturbing...this retoric...always about Bonnie..always about her accusations...always about her....

How can we move past this, when we are always replying to her retoric...?

Either we call for a ban on Bonnie's posting...or we ignore her retoric and deal with the problems at hand....

I personally want to deal with the problems at hand....and move beyond Bonnie...

That would certainly be a great idea. Would have appeciated cyberguy having that same thought, unless of course he was referring to an imaginary party.

As to the banning I am sure that is a distinct possibility. You may be the one to accommpish that fact.

Obviously once again it is wrong to respond to not so veiled innuendo and implication.

You may have the floor Neil,this is your turf. I responded to bravus, I did not intend for him to take it quite the way he did. Sorry if you were offended that I did so. He is now free to take it as he chooses to.

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Bonnie

I find it amusing that I am now blamed for bringing this up. May I remind you that you mentioned me by NAME to NeilD when he mentioned you reported someone to his employor. If you had not responded like you did I would not have come it at all and said anything.

You want to drop it fine. I will never mention you by name again. However that does not mean I will not tell what happened to me but not mentioning any names. This episode must not be allowed to happen to anyone else here on this forum. That is my whole point to brining up this topic.

You remind of the the criminal in the linup who when the witness could not ID him but only remember his voice each person in the line up was asked to say"Give me all your money in your Purse"

The criminal blurted out. "That is not what I said"

You advertise to the whole forum who I am or MAY be talking about. pillowfight

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Bruce,

You bring it up as frequently as you like. Wouldn't it be interesting to hear all those that didn't know step forward

When you say it must not happen to anyone else that only becomes valid if you are fair and honest in your complaint of why it happened.

I did not bring it up, nor do I think I said you did. If I inadvertantly said you brought it up originally it shouuld have read Neil. Neil brought it up out of the blue. I did not bring it up to Neil, and I first responded to what neil said directly to him

. You don't need to mention by name. Everyone knows exactly who and what you are talking about. That is permissable here, or I believe you believe it to be so. As you said you will tell what happened to you. There ia also something in the libel law referring to "reasonable expectation of others knowing who is being referred to.

I do not expect you to tell anything that is not benefical to you, so be it. If it ever becomes a serious issue,I have the record of where and when it began. The first two e-mails before I even knew who you were and from then on.

Nor do I think anyone really cares the reasons other than the superficial ones you relate over and over. What they base their opinion and knowledge on is their business. Mine is based on the complete record of what took place.

Nor does anyone care that you keep relating an old issue, what suppossedly happened to you. Or now this great concern that it not happen to anyone else. That is such a strange concern coming from you. When did that become such a conviction for you?

It would only be a cause for concern to keep replying and refuting what you want to keep bringing up.

Now you and Neil have fun. Discuss as frequently as you like. bring up wherever you can find a place to bring it up. I do not think that will be a problem here

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As I read this I have to respond although, probably be banned by the most vocal of persons here. I was not going to come back for a few days because of all the hatred of those here IN MY OPINION in this thread.

I came back. MY MISTAKE. I am the one that said something to the effect that I get banned at the drop of a hat when some here ask the admin or whomever. I have dealt with that.

I will state things I have learned on THIS particular thread as I have read.

1. Never never personally attack anyone.

(except if you are a few select that are allowed to continue even after being asked to stop. Bonnie stopped. Others have kept it up and thus Bonnie responded as ANYone would have done.

2. As long as someone "can't remember saying it", "was not meant to come across the way it did", "you took it too personal", or you are just plain vocal about things. then it is fine to go ahead with anything you want as long as it is supposedly said to be in a joking manner.

3. If you voice your opinions and others don't like it. Then sorry, "suck it up" and get on with your life.

4. If you can't suck it up then you do not have a life outside of this forum and so you should get one.

5. This is the internet. You can lie (because that's what people do on the internet) This is an ADVENTIST forum. Isn't one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS

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Bonnie

Not EVERYBODY Knows. There are some new people who have no idea of our history because they are new or forgot. But by responding the way you did. EVERYONE knows now.

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As I read this I have to respond although, probably be banned by the most vocal of persons here. I was not going to come back for a few days because of all the hatred of those here IN MY OPINION in this thread.

I came back. MY MISTAKE. I am the one that said something to the effect that I get banned at the drop of a hat when some here ask the admin or whomever. I have dealt with that.

I will state things I have learned on THIS particular thread as I have read.

1. Never never personally attack anyone.

(except if you are a few select that are allowed to continue even after being asked to stop. Bonnie stopped. Others have kept it up and thus Bonnie responded as ANYone would have done.

2. As long as someone "can't remember saying it", "was not meant to come across the way it did", "you took it too personal", or you are just plain vocal about things. then it is fine to go ahead with anything you want as long as it is supposedly said to be in a joking manner.

3. If you voice your opinions and others don't like it. Then sorry, "suck it up" and get on with your life.

4. If you can't suck it up then you do not have a life outside of this forum and so you should get one.

5. This is the internet. You can lie (because that's what people do on the internet) This is an ADVENTIST forum. Isn't one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS

Lil Star,

Do not develop enemies on my account. Your connection to adventism of some kind remains important to you. It is not to me.

Stay only where it is fun. Stay connected to those friends you have here privately.

You know what your mom and I went thru, why we took the steps we did with the inofrmation we had. I know. the steps we took we at the direction of legal counsel. The rest of this fun and games can continue, but please don't feel you need to defend me

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That's okay bruce. Great defense. Go for it now. I concede you must be blameless.

It will be interesting to see the amount of times and inventive ways this can be brought out again and again.

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Sorry, I didn't realize I hadn't finished the post. Here is the rest of it.

As I read this I have to respond although, probably be banned by the most vocal of persons here. I was not going to come back for a few days because of all the hatred of those here IN MY OPINION in this thread.

I came back. MY MISTAKE. I am the one that said something to the effect that I get banned at the drop of a hat when some here ask the admin or whomever. I have dealt with that.

I will state things I have learned on THIS particular thread as I have read.

1. Never never personally attack anyone.

(except if you are a few select that are allowed to continue even after being asked to stop. Bonnie stopped. Others have kept it up and thus Bonnie responded as ANYone would have done.

2. As long as someone "can't remember saying it", "was not meant to come across the way it did", "you took it too personal", or you are just plain vocal about things. then it is fine to go ahead with anything you want as long as it is supposedly said to be in a joking manner.

3. If you voice your opinions and others don't like it. Then sorry, "suck it up" and get on with your life.

4. If you can't suck it up then you do not have a life outside of this forum and so you should get one.

5. This is the internet. You can lie (because that's what people do on the internet) This is an ADVENTIST forum. Isn't one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS thou shall NOT LIE???

I did not realize it meant as long as you are on the internet then it is okay to lie as that is what everyone else does.

6. Who are those that have the last say? Probably those that are in the 'click' of this adventist forum.

7. The motto for here is 'pretend, pretend, pretend.

I have come and left more than once. I think maybe I will retire for the night as I have been in a car accident and can no longer take the STRESS of what is going on here. The internet forum is more than just the internet as has been pointed out more than a fair number of times. This is a place for adventists to get together and share ideas. I did not realize this is a lying, conniving, story telling, to get attention place to be. I thought this was where people come to learn about the Lord. My Lord does not lie and does not want any person who believes in Him to lie either. Sorry if I got the wrong idea of this place. It will not happen again. I have spent too much time online to find yet another place that has liars and people who pretend to be something they are not. I thought this place might be different. I will go back to my christian life where people do not pretend to be something they are not.

I have realized I have not been harshly treated. I have been far too fairly treated. I have ALWAYS been the one in the wrong and thus I should not come here to share with the perfect coat holders here. I have never asked that I be treated any different than anyone else on here. I'm not. I have come to realize that. If I have wronged anyone then I am sorry. I must not have had the Lord in my head or body. The devil must have taken me over for a bit. I will take my "influence" and retreat. Ya'll have fun with the liable accusations, the pretense, the lying.

I will come and read but doubtful I will post because I wouldn't want to offend anyone or have others feel as though I am having admin bend over backwards just for me. I will continue to accept PM's and will answer them should I still be able to do so after this post. May the Lord go with you and all that remain here to pretend and joke.

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