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When you say 'instigated by satan' some view that as you are claiming they are controlled by the Devil, and consider that libel.

From personal experience ... being called "of the Devil" is considered just commonplace and acceptable here on CA. It is not thought of as libel. Quite the contrary. It is considered a religous thought. Bible verses are quoted to "prove" it. And no apologizes are encouraged or needed.

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I would like to get a clear sense of direction here. In regard to the issue of rules for this forum. Is it or is it not administration's intention to promulgate rules, however worded, that will protect members from the following:

1) personal attacks (as defined by the words in a post, given their common meaning);

2) libel per se (the imputation of a crime, loathsome disease, immorality, dishonesty)

How about it?

Dave

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This is in reply to NO ONE.

Have any of you really thought about what has been said here? I mean really,really thought.

Person A is angry or very opinionated . Voices in such a way he knows the guilt or innocence of others. Now if there is no gossip or talking behind someone else's back; how would we know about private forums and what is said?

It would make me think someone is trusted in a private forum that shouldn't be.

I have been in the chat room and you can always tell who is there. If something is repeated outside the chat room to another party in a negative way or about someone what can we call it?

Gossip gets spread about person B by person C. All deviously done and things are supposedly known by person C that is simply not true. See, to me, that is a lying person. Now actions by person B is so terrible. Why?

How is it that the chat room and private forums now have enough being said that a trusted member has run all over town with it. Isn't this just plain gossip and trouble making?

Wonder how the ones that will be outed in this threatened lawsuit by David feels about that? Wonder how much the trust factor of those two places will fall as each starts looking at others to see if it is them.

Wonder if those less than straight forward people that have gone to the employer or conference or church keep hoping their own sins won't find them out? I wonder if they cringe a little with what is said here? Others might feel safe because surely their sins can't catch up to them here. This is not a real world. It is a virtual world. You can be whomever you want to be. Completely different than in the real world or totally the same as the real world.

So in a nut shell it seems gossip is streaming from the chatroom and now being used. Gossip is coming from private forums and is given to someone by a trusted person or one complicit in their games and spreading gossip. Lies and gossip and charges from PM's. Some very well known and yet how many that express so much outrage have done so are guilty of doing the very same thing.

just am curiouser and curiouser.

I would like to know

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At yet a deeper level, there is the concern that destructive communication--character assassination--should not occur in places like the chat room, private OR public forums. It is wrong wherever it raises its ugly head. It is a direct violation of Scripture. It can also be against the law, and whether or not it actually is, it certainly is frowned upon by society. Certainly, the policy is or should be, not to talk negatively about someone else behind his or her back. The person should be present, and have an opportunity to respond. There have been times when someone has talked badly about someone else, to me. I have often shared that destructive communication with the person being talked about. It is only fair. The person needs to know what is being said. I have also admonished people who gossip about others, to not do so, but to go directly to the person, rather than trashing his or her reputation to others.

Dave

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I'd also like to point out the difficulties that can accompany attempts at resolving destructive slander or libel. In my case, the first thing I did when I found out, was to contact administration to request assistance in dealing with the situation. I asked that the libel be removed from the forum. I also requested mediation. I felt that was in harmony with Biblical principles. Mediation did not occur. I then directly contacted one of the parties who had been spreading the libel. I also sent copies of the statement I made to that person, to others who the offending party had communicated the libel to. That reportedly did not end the problem. I then contacted administration with a demand for resolution, with the alternative being to proceed with legal action. From that point, my next step will be to send to the parties, a demand for retraction--which will also be communicated to a number of others who had become aware of the situation. We shall see how that plays out.

A very, very good alternative would be to have clearly-defined rules in place which prohibit such things as libel per se and personal attacks, and for administration to act promptly when those rules are violated.

Dave

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A good practice, also, is simply to ignore negative things people say about others. It's very often not true, or at the very least, only tells a small part of the story.

Ignore seems to be something that everyone does except when it comes to hurting them. As long as everyone can "turn the other cheek" everything is fine. I wonder just how many in the chat room or other private rooms leave only to spread something they've heard (read) in them. Nothing here is private no matter how much you try for it to be. Everything said in a PM or a private chat room or any private room is for all the world to know. No one or not many know just how to keep it private. There are so many gossips that one never knows how many anyone who is supposed to keep things private is going to tell. I do not know that I can trust anyone here. I wonder how many of those trusted members know there is someone among them that are gossips? I wonder just how many have spouted *I want change!* and has had a hand in the spreading of gossip themselves?

I would like to see a show of hands of those that would step up and say You never should do this. I did and it was alright but now others better not. After all is said and done, I no longer go to the chat room nor will I ask to be let into a private room as there is NO C/A privacy anywhere. It does not matter if it is all innocent. I know who spends their time in the chat room and I am going to wonder just how fast things will travel to others. I just wouldn't like knowing there are those there that are just waiting to leave the chat and tale bear to others.

I have been around C/A for a very long time on and off. I have found that the ones hollering the loudest for change are the very ones that will be the quickest to instigate and agitate. The victim role they can play is funny sometimes but it is also very mean and nasty. I've been on the receiving end of the mean and nastiness. There are people that do not know of the past and who should have been sued and who was just turning the other cheek. I guess as long as a person does not mention a name then it will be just fine and the issue will stay alive and be tolerated no matter who it hurts. I can go back and review my mom's records of what exactly went on but it hurts so very bad that I do not want to do that. It hurts deep inside knowing what people did to her on here. Got away with it and she was told basically to turn the other cheek as well as "you took it too personally", it wasn't meant the way you took it, I was only joking, or whatever the current phrase at that time was. I find it very disconcerning that it is the same thing, different day, different time, same people and yet, it is still the same 'ol game. Love everyone. It's like hearing love everyone until it hurts them and then by all means, take it to whatever means you have to. As long as you are one of the many many that are allowed to share their preverted way of "joking" then by all means, GO FOR IT!!

I know it is the same ones and their friends that are yelling the loudest about putting in force a set of rules that would govern their own behavior if anyone cared to do so. No one cares to do that. IN MY OPINION. All is put on the table to be gossiped about until someone refutes what has been brought back to life over and over and over again until finally the one that is being tallied against is banned.

But I will tell ya, let's not mention any names. That is the joke of it all. Let's guess or ask via pm's who it is. Lets make sure that nothing ever dies so that it can be rehashed and rehashed so much that the person is no longer able to defend themselves because they have been pecked at so hard they have lost their will and then---- lets watch them rot in their own (how was it said?) denial of what has been going on. Let's say it's private even though it isn't. Let's be funny at the expense of whoever it hurts. There are those posts from friends that have completely surprised me!

I have found friends where in fact, might not be friends. Only those gathering information from me for their own purpose. I have learned not to turn my back for fear that a knife will be shoved deep into it. Right now however, a knife sounds pretty good to me I hurt so bad now that it would be a relief for someone to plunge that knife through my back.

Let's all be totally honest here.

No one really cares about "rules or policies".

Let's only have rules for those that stand up for what they believe or are convinced of. Then, if they falter from the "rules" WE have set up, then we can call foul on them.

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Personally, I favor making good friends...I favor building bridges...

As do I.

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I favor trying to repair old wounds...personally, I am trying to reach out to various people....

too little too late

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But you know, guys and gal....it's hard to build bridges...it's hard to tell someone else that while you don't agree with thier view point, you still want to be friends...and then to continually live with that ...agitation...It's really hard...

There comes a time when it is too late for that. You should know the saying, "too much water under the bridge". That is how I feel. I can not speak for others here. I can only speak for myself.

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Yes, that sounds very reasonable. Just as reasonable as it would sound if that was said each and every time these old things are brought out to pick at again. It is always remembered after people get hacked to pieces.

Wounds do not heal when they are opened up every time a person turns around. When it is done over and over again the wound becomes deeper and deeper until it can no longer be healed. Has anyone ever had a wound that would not heal? How about a disease that would not heal? One can not "just get over it".

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Just wanted to comment on what Lilstar said. This is very important. I, too, have heard certain ones say, 'Just get over it' or similar words. But that is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that if your brother offend you? Do what? 'Just get over it?' No, Jesus said, 'Rebuke him.' And, Jesus said, if he will not listen to you, take others with you and talk to him, try again. If he still will not listen, then should you 'just get over it'? No, Jesus said THEN, take it to the entire church. And if he STILL will not listen? Then he is to be subject to church discipline. Jesus said, speaking to a Jewish audience, to treat him as a Gentile and a publican. To a Jew, this was saying something very, very clear.

Therefore, rather than say, 'Just get over it,' there should be a mechanism on C/A for mediation. IOW if someone on this forum wrongs someone else on the forum, in the course of forum activities, then SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE in order to bring healing. It is not Scriptural or appropriate or realistic to say, 'Just get over it.'

Dave

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Therefore, rather than say, 'Just get over it,' there should be a mechanism on C/A for mediation. IOW if someone on this forum wrongs someone else on the forum, in the course of forum activities, then SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE in order to bring healing. It is not Scriptural or appropriate or realistic to say, 'Just get over it.'

YES. Exactly Dave.

Rather than DIScourage Matt.18 ... a word of approval would be helpful. It we could have our cake and eat it too ... we would have a policy of encouraging or even requiring "mediation". Right now ... mediation is rejected by members and moderators. Could this change? If someone refuses to make thing right by following Matt.18 ... then do we really want them present here?

I don't care if they are "Christian" or not. If they are not willing to make things right by communicating with another member ... then it should be declared that they are in opposition to the common sense rule.

Matt.18 is very easy to follow. If someone can't say ... "Oh I am sorry that my words offended you ... they were not intended to do so " End of Story. Then what is wrong. It is a simple procedure. Sometimes there may be more needed ... but hey ... a simple apology is always in order no matter what happened.

I will start this ...

If anyone is offended by anything I have said over the past year ... come to me and a free apology will be given. You have my Redwood Guarantee on that. You won't even have to beg.

Anyone else want to join me in this pledge?

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Some things we do need to get over and get on...

HOWEVER not all things, and not all things need to be hashed through here, BUT SOME DO.. as a preventive measure for other abuse. Which is Which? Ask Solomon..

This is why I would like to set up a group of 5, I do not want to even appear as if I am always wise or know it all or have the answer..

There are things I just do not want to read any more... and that includes the sage between B & B..

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If anyone is offended by anything I have said over the past year ... come to me and a free apology will be given. You have my Redwood Guarantee on that. You won't even have to beg.

Anyone else want to join me in this pledge?

Count me in, Redwood. I will make the same pledge. Only, I don't just want the Redwood Guarantee. I want the Redwood AWARD!

Dave

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Originally Posted By: John317

A good practice, also, is simply to ignore negative things people say about others. It's very often not true, or at the very least, only tells a small part of the story.

Ignore seems to be something that everyone does except when it comes to hurting them...

I mean that when I hear bad things about people, I don't allow it to influence how I relate personally to them and I don't put any "stock" in it because I don't even know if it's true or not.

I work in a place where there is constant fighting, bickering, lying and stealing. I don't let that keep me from treating every person respectfully and kindly and in a loving way. For instance, I don't let the fact that Tom hates Dick and calls him all kinds of names and says all manner of things against him, keep me from treating both of them in a respectful, loving way.

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Oh Yeah. I know you have been after that for some time. But only a select few get it. If you are willing to follow through on this plan though. I will nominate you for this prestigious honor.

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Deal. I expect a suitable presentation ceremony, though. 'Pomp and Circumstance' # 1 will be suitable, or 'War March of the Priests,' something like that.

Dave

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Can we hope and pray that ALL parties will join us in this pledge? It would be very lonely for just us two conservatives to be committed to this pledge.

We have to wait for ALL parties to join before any ceremonies or celebrations.

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Hey, no fair, Redwood! Not EVERYONE who starts will FINISH. Shouldn't expect 100% graduation. Let's go with those who are willing. How soon should I order my cap and gown?

Dave

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Token liberal? Here, now! Redwood isn't sure where he stands, and I have been accused of being both. You're not the 'token' liberal but you are most welcome indeed.

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Lil Star said

No one really cares about "rules or policies".

In this I agree. I can't count the many times an admin or mod asked for posters to stay on topic or quit bickering etc. All to be ignored by the posters. "Oh, were you talking about me???" Rules apply to everyone or no one.

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Dave Koot said

Therefore, rather than say, 'Just get over it,' there should be a mechanism on C/A for mediation.

This has been brought up to me in the past. I just want to say that personally I don't have the qualifications to act as a mediator. And I don't mean professional qualifications. I just don't have that ability to be an unemotional 3rd party.

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I just don't have that ability to be an unemotional 3rd party.

Perhaps you are taking it too personal. I wasn't aware of anyone asking you for that position. But, I am sure there could be SOMEONE here that could fill that role IF needed.This would not have to be one assigned person. It could be anyone the party chose. A rep from admin could be a silent observer only though. I think the opportunity would be seldom. I just see that we need those in your position to ENCOURAGE it to happen. That is what I've observed as lacking. I've actually heard it DIScouraged per a number of posts.

I happen to know of some here who are able and willing to assist if called. But that is a further step down the Matt.18 road. What needs to be encouraged is to have the two people who have disagreements getting together on their own ... in private ... first. And this need could have teeth in it if necessary.

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My Personal feeling is this..

I would rather some things be taken to the courts than taken to forums. AT least the courts can make a ruling that 'sticks' and has a Bonifide appeal process.

True if one can afford that which most of us cannot.

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