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EGW and inspiration


Stan

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Now Now. One doesn't have to get nasty. My pastor has nothing to do with this ... so I would appreciate it if you don't bring her into the picture. Let's keep the focus on the forum here.

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Apostasy is

the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.

If you need further help, ask your pastor next time you see her. She's got a Masters degree in theology from a great university.

Give her the Ellen White quote and ask her what it means. It's pretty plain English but if you don't understand it, I'm sure she will be able to explain it to you.

Hey Brother John317, I am just back online now. And I saw this reply of yours and thought you were just making a reasonable suggestion. I do not see that you were getting nasty or off the issue as Redwood has said. What did you do that is so wrong by suggesting that he ask his pastor.

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So, would you suggest that each time we sin ... that we be rebaptized with this kind of theory?

I'd suggest the same thing that's suggested in the SDA church manual:

Quote:
On the basis of acceptance of significant new truths, Ellen G. White

supports rebaptism as the Spirit leads the new believer to request it. This

follows the developmental pattern of Acts 19. Individuals who have

previously experienced believer baptism should evaluate their new

religious experience and determine whether rebaptism may be desirable.

There is to be no urging. “This [rebaptism] is a subject which each

individual must conscientiously take his position upon in the fear of God.

This subject should be carefully presented in the spirit of tenderness and

love. Then the duty of urging belongs to no one but God; give God a

chance to work with His Holy Spirit upon the minds, so that the

individual will be perfectly convinced and satisfied in regard to this

advanced step.”—Evangelism, p. 373.

Apostasy and Rebaptism—Although apostasy clearly existed in the

apostolic church (e.g., Heb. 6:4-6), Scripture does not address the

question of rebaptism. Ellen G. White supports rebaptism when members

have fallen away in apostasy and have lived in such a manner that the

faith and principles of the church have been publicly violated. Then they

should, in case of reconversion and application for church membership,

enter the church as in the beginning, by baptism. (See pp. 199, 207.)

The Lord calls for a decided reformation. And when a soul is truly

reconverted, let him be rebaptized. Let him renew his covenant with God,

and God will renew His covenant with him.”—Evangelism, p. 375.

Clearly what is referred to here is not a recurring spiritual revival in a

believer’s experience, but a radical change in life.

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I think Redwood that there is any proof one way or the other. We had a discussion of this in SS once and we have a couple of Religion teachers that are in our class and they basically have the same to say as John317. I personally believe that's its a matter between the individual and God. I knew a few people that were rebaptized. And they said that they just felt that they needed to do that. And there are those that have left and felt that they didn't need to. Again I think that its up to the individual and how they feel is right for them. And I would also imagine that they have discussed this with there pastor.

pk

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Now Now. One doesn't have to get nasty. My pastor has nothing to do with this ... so I would appreciate it if you don't bring her into the picture. Let's keep the focus on the forum here.

Her?? HER????

You blasted heathen!! No wonder you're talking such apostasy with a woman 'pastor'!!

Surely there must be an EGW quote to counteract this!!

Messenger? John? Get out the little red books and put this man in his place, pleeeeaaaase!!! Heretics everywhere!! gah

Oh BTW, as futile as it may seem

backtopic

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Messenger? John? Get out the little red books and put this man in his place, pleeeeaaaase!!! Heretics everywhere!! gah

Oh BTW, as futile as it may seem

backtopic

I'm begining to like this guy more and more.....

Your TIC comments are great...

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Shoot, guys.....

I leave for a couple of days, and you guys can't shut up long enough for me to keep up...135 POSTS!!!!! bgoogle

And you have moved on to rebaptism....! reyes

Ok, MY OPINION....Why does one get rebaptised? John, you didn't underline your quote very well....It states that when a Christian has done some things "PUBLICALLY", that were against Christian principles and against Christ Himself,... well, then you need to get rebaptisted for apostasy....but otherwise...what's the need for?

You guys talk like baptism does something to you....Like you become some sort of new creature or something? What do you think conversion is????

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I think Redwood that there is any proof one way or the other. We had a discussion of this in SS once and we have a couple of Religion teachers that are in our class and they basically have the same to say as John317. I personally believe that's its a matter between the individual and God. I knew a few people that were rebaptized. And they said that they just felt that they needed to do that. And there are those that have left and felt that they didn't need to. Again I think that its up to the individual and how they feel is right for them. And I would also imagine that they have discussed this with there pastor.

pk

I agree with you pk. I just think the symbolism and message of re-baptism STINKS. To me it says the sacrifice of Jesus was not big enough to cover your sins. To me it is a one time event and symbol ... even no matter how prepared you might have been or might not have been.

But to each his or her own.

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Quote:
"Those who place the subject of rebaptism in the front, making it of as much importance as the Sabbath question, are not leaving the right impression upon the minds and correctly representing the subject." Evangelism (1946), page 372, 373

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...To me it says the sacrifice of Jesus was not big enough to cover your sins. To me it is a one time even no matter how prepared you might have been or might not have been.

So you think that baptism "ritual" has some sort of supernatural power to change your heart? Or that I'm now "forced" to abide in Jesus sacrifice, even though I choose not to??

Sounds like "once saved, always saved".

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Ok, so how many times were you 3 years old? Or 6?

Same with baptism...you only need to do it once....Maybe you didn't act your age...doesn't mean that you were not that age, just that you didn't act it....

And to "rebaptise" one's self, seems more to me like it was a ritual and not making much importance of it.... IOWs, if it didn't work the first time, well, maybe I did it wrong, and it will this time....

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Originally Posted By: Redwood
...To me it says the sacrifice of Jesus was not big enough to cover your sins. To me it is a one time even no matter how prepared you might have been or might not have been.

So you think that baptism "ritual" has some sort of supernatural power to change your heart? Or that I'm now "forced" to abide in Jesus sacrifice, even though I choose not to??

Sounds like "once saved, always saved".

Baptism is a symbol as I indicated. You will fail in your works yes. But Jesus doesn't fail. His sacrifice covers all. And when you fail ... Jesus has given us the 'mini' baptism of foot washing to cover those error symbolically. Do you participate in footwashing? It is a great experience that many unfortunately miss out on.

And if you think that baptism 'saves' you ... then you are mistaken. So the once saved always saved ... has nothing to do with it.

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Baptism isn't "Jesus dying a second time". It's symbolizes MY death and resurrection with Jesus.

I have to die to self every day. I'm not infallible.

There is nothing wrong with re-committing myself after many years of turning my back.

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So basically what you're saying, is that it's imposssilbe for me to be lost, because at one point in time, I was converted and baptised.

THAT'S once saved, always saved.

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Baptism does not guarantee that you will be saved. So, I don't see your point. It is not once saved always saved because baptism does not mean you are going to be saved.

IF I had your kind of belief ... I guess I would want to be baptized every day.

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You're right, baptism and conversion don't go hand in hand. BUT baptism AFTER conversion does.

So after you're converted, you should be baptised, even if you were baptised before.

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Quote:
Baptism isn't "Jesus dying a second time". It's symbolizes MY death and resurrection with Jesus.

Yupper...something that you did once....

Quote:

I have to die to self every day. I'm not infallible.

I thought that was what communion was for...dying to self and assimilating Jesus' Word into your life...

Quote:
There is nothing wrong with re-committing myself after many years of turning my back.

No, there is not....but as I said, unless you've done some public things that conflicted with your understanding of Christ, such as denying him publically, then yeah, go get rebapbtised.

...But if you haven't, why do you need to crucify Jesus afresh?

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I would have to be baptized every day then.

But no. Christ want us to walk in faith knowing that our past sins have been buried in the depths of the sea and we can walk forward knowing that we have the assurance of salvation. He doesn't want us looking back but instead he wants us to walk forward in newness of life.

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No, there is not....but as I said, unless you've done some public things that conflicted with your understanding of Christ, such as denying him publically, then yeah, go get rebapbtised.

That's the crux of the matter. There certainly are times when it's proper. The Bible says so. We're just disagreeing on the specifics of those times and playing word games.

I've had enough....

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The only example of re-baptism is when one was not baptized in the proper mode ... as in ... IN the NAME of the Holy Ghost.

All SDA baptism now include the phrase ... "In the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost".

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The only example of re-baptism is when one was not baptized in the proper mode ... as in ... IN the NAME of the Holy Ghost.

All SDA baptism now include the phrase ... "In the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost".

The principle we learn from Acts 19 is as the SDA church manual says:

Quote:
On the basis of acceptance of significant new truths, Ellen G. White

supports rebaptism as the Spirit leads the new believer to request it. This

follows the developmental pattern of Acts 19. Individuals who have

previously experienced believer baptism should evaluate their new

religious experience and determine whether rebaptism may be desirable.

There is to be no urging.

“This [rebaptism] is a subject which each

individual must conscientiously take his position upon in the fear of God.

This subject should be carefully presented in the spirit of tenderness and

love. Then the duty of urging belongs to no one but God; give God a

chance to work with His Holy Spirit upon the minds, so that the

individual will be perfectly convinced and satisfied in regard to this

advanced step.”—Evangelism, p. 373.

Apostasy and Rebaptism—Although apostasy clearly existed in the

apostolic church (e.g., Heb. 6:4-6), Scripture does not address the

question of rebaptism. Ellen G. White supports rebaptism when members

have fallen away in apostasy and have lived in such a manner that the

faith and principles of the church have been publicly violated. Then they

should, in case of reconversion and application for church membership,

enter the church as in the beginning, by baptism. (See pp. 199, 207.)

“The Lord calls for a decided reformation. And when a soul is truly

reconverted, let him be rebaptized. Let him renew his covenant with God,

and God will renew His covenant with him.”—Evangelism, p. 375.

Clearly what is referred to here is not a recurring spiritual revival in a

believer’s experience, but a radical change in life.

The foot washing is for those who have already been cleansed in a baptism of both the Spirit and the water.

However, if an individual's first baptism was only a water baptism, the foot-washing won't be adequate because that person never truly died to sin. When a person realizes that this is the case, and he experiences true conversion, then the Holy Spirit will lead him to rebaptism.

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