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What brings about Sunday Legislation in the US


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Some people say that calls for civil security and order and the problem with natural disasters results in the general population of the U.S. demanding Sunday Laws from our government.

But in the highly unusual disasters and economic distress and even Muslim terrorist activity of the past 10 to 15 years - we do not see increased calls for Sunday legislation.

In fact what we see is DECREASED emphasis on Sunday Laws --

Referring to this post -

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post446950

I said...

That "little detail" above is hugely significant for SDAs.

It means that "instead" of a great Sunday Law debate suddenly bursting on the scene out of thin air - or even out of natural disasters or out of civil unrest - what actually happens is something like the lying signs and wonders of Satan appear - and THEN it guides the U.S. into connecting the NSL issue with disasters, the economy etc.

(Hint - notice that we are experiencing some extreme high-level disaster frequency since Katrina and even before that time - and yet STILL NO wimper from the NSL group of any significance. In fact if anything more bluelaws are being set ASIDE each decade - state by state rather than adopted or revived - my state was one of the two last holdouts in favor of the bluelaws and it too is now dropping support for it at the state level as of this year!).

And also note - that when we so often claim that it is spiritualism (as in talking to the dead) that gets everybody pointed to the NSL - that is fact not what is going on. (At least not directly). What is happening is that Spiritualism "in a new form' is pointing people that direction - yet we ignore it because it is not in the traditional occultic or seance form so long in use in the dark ages.

We have missed the key point that Satan "adapts" his strategy to fit the culture.

We are about to be blind-sided in this "if possible fool the very elect" thing that is coming up.

To see the new form of signs-and-wonders spiritualism that is rising, adapted to our science and discovery based culture and is taking the world by storm (yet we are silent as mice about it) - click this 8 minute link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB-jikoNVpQ

Could it be that we are in for a "surprise" as to just how the general public is finally convinced that the NSL is the answer to all their ills? Could it be that the final form for what we called in the 1800's "spiritualism" will be a bit more "adapted" to the 21st century than those of the 1800's had imagined?

in Christ,

Bob

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Another contribution was made recently by someone who provides a link to an NPR interview where key sources were found that have first hand knowledge of similar events as those listed above.

This is a pretty interesting thread.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post444814

So also is this one.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post437673

in Christ,

Bob

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Parade Orange

there are more muslems and muslem countries than christian that dont believe or recognize our GOD

!

what has to happen in order for the whole world to wonder after the beast?

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...Could it be that we are in for a "surprise"...

Yes, people are usually surprised when things do not turn out as they expected.

Maybe we have been wrong about our expectation about a NSL. We have been wrong before.

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Originally Posted By: BobRyan
...Could it be that we are in for a "surprise"...

Yes, people are usually surprised when things do not turn out as they expected.

Maybe we have been wrong about our expectation about a NSL. We have been wrong before.

Tom,

You have it nailed. It is "an overwhelming surprise" that the SDA Church would participate in the last-day persecution of God's faithful commandment-keeping people.

The prophets are ALWAYS stoned.

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Bob,

It is getting late here, and I must have missed something. BTW: I do not watch online video -- takes up too much band-width.

So, in a "nut-shell," what is your thesis?

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Some of the links in the OP are to threads on Club Adventist - (in fact a single post).

I doubt that would be too disturbing to read - but just in case.

That link shows a number of statements from Ellen White pointing to the sequence of end times events where Satan's lying wonders precedes the Sunday Legislation.

The other key link in the OP gives an example of some high profile stuff going on in recent years that may fit that bill - as far as a new form of spiritualism is concerned.

in Christ,

Bob

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Originally Posted By: BobRyan
...Could it be that we are in for a "surprise"...

Yes, people are usually surprised when things do not turn out as they expected.

Maybe we have been wrong about our expectation about a NSL. We have been wrong before.

meanwhile; the Roman catholic Church is very busy in many political arenas, advocating on all levels some sort of Sunday legislation. You will be surprised when your doubts are crushed by the Romish machine.
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I agree that the RCC has been doing its part to get Sunday Laws put back in place - but it has far less hold on America than it did on the EU and it is a struggle for the RCC to get Sunday legislation returned to the EU.

The way it will happen in the U.S will involve the RCC playing a key role - but not the primary one as that second link clearly shows.

in Christ,

Bob

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I agree that the RCC has been doing its part to get Sunday Laws put back in place ...

The way it will happen in the U.S will involve the RCC playing a key role - but not the primary one as that second link clearly shows.

in Christ,

Bob

The US makes an image to the beast. A likeness. And it urges people to worship the beast (by the papacy's own admission, Sunday worship is the signature of papal power.)

Seems pretty clear.

We have become such a secular nation, it would have to either be some kind of energy conservation thing, or there would have to be major catastrophe that would lead us to believe we could appease an angry god by getting back to church.

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"Something happens" to make the US make an image to the beast. That has not happened yet - will not happen until the NSL.

The bigger question for us now is - what leads the US to the point of making the image given that we are becoming more secular not more religious and given that evolutionism is spreading not decreasing with the result that church attendance across America is declining, and given that even with 15 years of increased disasters - state Sunday laws are being set ASIDE more and more ... rather than adopted more and more?

That is what the first two posts address.

Ellen White clearly states that before the image is set up - the lying signs and wonders of Satan appear.

in Christ,

Bob

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Agreed. something rather unnusual is probably the game changer that causes us to take an about face. Something that the RCC certainly cooperates with - but there is little chance that any kind of command from the Pope would be more accepted in the US than in the EU at this point.

But some kind of science-based lying wonder that also had the blessing of the Vatican (since lets say 2008 or maybe even before that) - would be another matter entirely.

In the 1980's and early 1990's we had not yet discovered even one planet outside of our solar system and a number of people were saying at that time that there was at least some doubt as to how many - if any other words there were in our Universe. Since about 1995 over 1200 planets have been found and there is little doubt among scientists that we are not alone in this Universe.

As SDAs we well know that this is all true - but we also know that mankind is being duped by some "false flag" ops - because the fact is that there is simply no such thing as spirits of the dead, or ghosts or beings showing up from other nearby planets (Real though those planets may be).

in Christ,

Bob

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Originally Posted By: BobRyan
I agree that the RCC has been doing its part to get Sunday Laws put back in place ...

The way it will happen in the U.S will involve the RCC playing a key role - but not the primary one as that second link clearly shows.

in Christ,

Bob

The US makes an image to the beast. A likeness. And it urges people to worship the beast (by the papacy's own admission, Sunday worship is the signature of papal power.)

Seems pretty clear.

We have become such a secular nation, it would have to either be some kind of energy conservation thing, or there would have to be major catastrophe that would lead us to believe we could appease an angry god by getting back to church.

...or something completely different.

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The bigger question for us now is - what leads the US to the point of making the image

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

There is only one city on this planet that could possibly fit this description.

Do not be fooled. Sunday laws are not being "set aside," rather, preparations are being made for the "test" spoken of in Rev 3:10.

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Well in my State of Georgia (one of the last two remaining states to have Sunday Laws still applicable and enforced at the state level - they have been set aside and left for the local counties and cities to "enforce if they wish").

While it is true that Sunday is a "mark" of the RCC, in a bigger sense it is the "mark" of the Dragon - Satan. It is his counterfeit day.

And frankly - I am not all that opposed to having liquor stores closed on Sunday - in fact I would be fine having them closed Sunday - through - Saturday.

As for something "entirely different" bringing in the Sunday Laws - we already saw this on the opening post first link.

Satan’s Lying Wonders PRECEDE the Fall of Bablyon mentioned in the 2nd Angel’s message that is future .

Quote:

The second angel's message of Revelation 14 was first preached in the summer of 1844, and it then had a more direct application to the churches of the United States, where the warning of the judgment had been most widely proclaimed and most generally rejected, and where the declension in the churches had been most rapid. But the message of the second angel did not reach its complete fulfillment in 1844. The churches then experienced a moral fall, in consequence of their refusal of the light of the advent message; but that fall was not complete. As they have continued to reject the special truths for this time they have fallen lower and lower. Not yet, however, can it be said that "Babylon is fallen,... because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." She has not yet made all nations do this. The spirit of world conforming and indifference to the testing truths for our time exists and has been gaining ground in churches of the Protestant faith in all the countries of Christendom; and these churches are included in the solemn and terrible denunciation of the second angel. But the work of apostasy has not yet reached its culmination. {GC 389.2}

GC 389

The Bible declares that before the coming of the Lord, Satan will work "with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness;" and they that "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved," will be left to receive "strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11. Not until this condition shall be reached, and the union of the church with the world shall be fully accomplished throughout Christendom, will the fall of Babylon be complete. The change is a progressive one, and the perfect fulfillment of Revelation 14:8 is yet future. {GC 389.3}

Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? {Mar 160.6} {GC88 625.2} {GC 625.3}

in Christ,

Bob

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  • 2 months later...

This is a bit long but I believe it sheds light as to the role of spiritualism in the bringing of Sunday Legislation.

THE ROLE OF SPIRITUALISM

In the work of restoration of the Beast and his Image in these last days, the role of spiritualism is not to be overlooked, for it will play a major part in this return to power of ecclesiastical oppression.

"Satan has long been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world... little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of spiritualism... Even in its present form, so far from being more worthy of toleration than formerly, it is really a more dangerous, because a more subtle, deception. While it formerly denounced Christ and the Bible, it now professes to accept both. But the Bible is interpreted in a manner that is pleasing to the unrenewed heart, while its solemn and vital truths are made of no effect. Love is dwelt upon as the chief attribute of God, but it is degraded to a weak sentimentalism, making little distinction between good and evil." The Great Controversy, pp.561, 558.

In Matthew 24:24, we are warned that in the last days "There shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

The ones against whom we are warned, appearing in plural numbers in these last days are false Christs and false prophets. They come not as open enemies of the truth, but as counterfeits of the real. Among those who are opposed to God's living truths are men so polite, courteous, helpful, calm and nice that you would ask yourself, How could such a person ever be the enemy of God? Outwardly he bears all the marks of conversion. Surely from all I can see of this man he is a true child of God.

But do not be deceived. That is not the test. The ministers of unrighteousness come among us as angels of light to deceive and draw back God's people. In these last days we will have miracles, genuine, undeniable miracles of apparent conversions, worked by Satan's ministers. They will teach a message which appears to be the doctrine of Christ. It will look the same and sound the same, but God's true people will know by His Word that it is not the same because there are distinct differences.

"Genius, sympathy, even generous deeds, may become decoys of Satan to entice other souls over the precipice of ruin for this life and the life to come." Mount of Blessing, pp.94,95.

"To a superficial observer, persons who are naturally amiable, who are educated and refine, may appear perfect in life,"(Faith and Works, p.32) but do not be deceived, for "I saw that the mysterious signs and wonders, and false reformations would increase, and spread. The reformations that were shown me, were not reformations from error to truth, but from bad to worse; for those who professed a change of heart, had only wrap about them a religious garb, which covered up the iniquity of a wicked heart. Some appeared to have been really converted, as to deceive God's people, but if their hearts could be seen, they would appear as black as ever." E.G. White, Present Truth, Aug.1849, pp.21,22.

In the book of Revelation, it is made clear that there will be in the final and finishing conflict, a vast gathering of the powers of earth, and that this gathering will be accomplished through the work of the spirits of devils, WORKING MIRACLES. It is also made clear that this vast confederacy of earthly power will be gathered together in opposition against the God of Heaven and against the Lamb, but that in the end the Lord will be the victor in the battle. See Isaiah 8:9-16.

Now these very same miracle working spirits of devils will be the prime agency in the bringing into being the Image of the Beast. This is expressly stated in Revelation 13:11-18. What is this fire that comes down from heaven (first heaven of course)?

Today men in the religious world are looking for the fulfilment of the second Pentecost. In Joel 2:28-32, is foretold the mighty outpouring of the Spirit in the last days. When this true work comes it will be the work of the true Christ and His workers, and the Devil and his evil spirits of devils fear the mighty power to be exercised in this movement.

They will work with all their deceptive power to mislead souls. To do this they will seek to counterfeit the real before it comes so that many will be misled and deceived into a snare before the real movement comes. In this way they miss out on the true because they have become part of the false:

"I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventist and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant." Early Writings, p.261.

The above prophecy from the Book of Joel has already had a fulfilment in the experience of the Apostles at Pentecost. On that day, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and therefore speaking the truth of God, Peter said, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Acts 2:16. It was in that day when the words of Joel were first fulfilled that "fire came down from Heaven in the sight of men" as a testimony that the Holy Spirit had come in power on the people of God. That was a demonstration of the way in which this prophecy was to be fulfilled and the devil knows it. Inasmuch as he is determined to appear as Christ with the power of God, he will make it appear that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit has come, that Pentecost is being repeated.

The coming down of the fire from heaven which marked the descent of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, was immediately followed by miracles of healing. Likewise we can expect to see miracles of healing sweeping through those churches who, having rejected the light of truth and the message of Sabbath reform, have opened the door to the inroads of spiritualism. And in these expectations we shall not be disappointed in our trust of the sure word of prophecy, for already this thing is being fulfilled before our very eyes. Today there is present in many of the churches a movement of power associated with which are miracles of healing so genuine as to be undeniable.

"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men and deceived them that dwell upon the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by the sword and did live."

So the whole objective of the bringing of false fire from heaven, the whole objective of working miracles and therefore, the whole objective of the spirits of devils in the last days is to bring into existence the formation of the Image of the Beast.

THE THREEFOLD UNION

"Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deception. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism, and they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this three fold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling the rights of conscience." The Great Controversy, p.588; please read 552-560.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Rev.16:13-14.

"Many will be confronted by the spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends and declaring the most dangerous heresies. These visitants will appeal to our tenderest sympathies and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible truth that "the dead know not anything" and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils... The Apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth." The Great Controversy, pp.560,557.

We have the plainest warning that through the teaching of the immortality of the soul, the spirits of devils will make fire come down from heaven, which is to make it appear that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. With equal clarity we have been warned that the spirits of devils have power to do miracles in the sight of men. Therefore we know that it is not safe to accept every appearance of the "Holy Spirit" and every miracle as a witness of the presence of the power of God. More likely it is the counterfeit abroad in its work of deception.

That this is not the work of the Spirit of God is evident from the fact that these people have rejected the message of truth for this time. They are of those who, having rejected the messages of God sent to the churches in the 1844 period, have fallen lower and lower and further and further into the grip of spiritualism.

"The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves, and are ready to join with them; and Satan determines to unite them in one body, and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of Spiritualism. Catholics, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this miracle working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deceived. Catholics, Protestants and worldlings, will alike accept the form of godliness without the power and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world and the ushering in of the long expected millenium." The Great Controversy, pp.588,589.

But the true people of God will not be deceived. They will know that the work of these forces will be upholding error and not truth. But when Jesus at last appears in the clouds of heaven, then the true children of God will say, "Lo, this is our God. We have waited for Him. We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation." Isaiah 25:9.

CALAMITIES AND DISASTERS

There is yet another means that the Devil use in his effort to bring all the people into subjection to himself and that is the instrument of calamity and trouble. While on the one hand through spiritualism he heals the people and thus appears as the benefactor of the race, on the other hand he works in his true role of destroyer.

This is brought to view very clearly in the way in which he afflicted Job, the servant of God. It was he who swept away all of Job's possessions but it was God who was blamed for it by those who came to see and to "comfort" Job. But Satan was able to go only so far as the Lord allowed him and no more. So today, still, "It is God that shields His creatures, and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world has shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would, He will withdraw His blessings from the earth, and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law; and teaching and forcing others to do the same." The Great Controversy, p.589.

This leaves the door open for Satan to work his will. He will not treat all the same as it will best suit his purpose. "Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favour and prosper some, in order to further his own designs; and he will bring trouble upon others, and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them." Ibid, p.589.

In the book of Job we have some revelation of the power of Satan to control the elements of nature. There storm and tempest came at his call to sweep the possessions of God's faithful servant. Since that time his learning and skill have advanced and he has even more power to destroy today. Thus we read, "While appearing to the children of men as the great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster until populous cities are reduced to ruin and to destruction. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hail-storms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away. The haughty people do languish. The earth is defiled under the inhabitants thereof, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, broken the everlasting covenant." Isa.24:4,5; The Great Controversy, p.590.

It is Satan's constant effort to make it appear that these calamities and disasters are visited upon the earth by the direct decree of God. But "It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work... God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." Ibid, pp.35,36.

MISPLACED BLAME

"And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils." Ibid, 590. This is the very opposite of the truth. It is just as much the opposite of the truth as the charge to be made that the desecration of Sunday will be the cause of the wide-spread wickedness and immorality in the world.

But it will be believed and the natural reaction will be to war against those who stand for the truth as it is in Jesus. This will be but to throw off still further the protection of God and to open the door for Satan to bring more trouble on the one hand and on the other to lead to still greater wickedness in the land, which will lead to still greater pressure for the Sunday Law and so on in an ever steepening spiral to the one possible end, the setting up of the Image of the Beast.

Thus it is that all these diabolical forces are working toward this end. The mighty power of spiritualism masquerading as true religion will be the great motivating and unifying force in the movement. And it will succeed to a point and for a short period of time. Of this we will learn more as we proceed in this study.

Sky

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Its up to you, L, but if you cut up your articles into 3 or 4 paragraphs per post it could be easier reading.

If most here read lengthy posts disregard. Other boards have generally found that lengthy posts are disregarded. Its just a suggestion, tho. :)

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Child Guidance 555.2

Quote:

“a great terror is soon to come upon human beings. The end is very near. God’s people should be preparing for what is to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise

Just found that one a few days ago.

in Christ,

Bob

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  • 2 weeks later...

Prophets and Kings, page 626:

Christians should be preparing for what is soon to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise, and this preparation they should make by diligently studying the word of God and striving to conform their lives to its precepts. The tremendous issues of eternity demand of us something besides an imaginary religion, a religion of words and forms, where truth is kept in the outer court. God calls for a revival and a reformation. The words of the Bible and the Bible alone, should be heard from the pulpit.

Any suggestion that the "overwhelming surprise" is connected to the "Sunday law" or the forming of it is a bit of a stretch in my perception. Looking at the 19 different paragraphs on the CD-ROM where these words are employed leads me to believe the following:

Ellen White is making the point that "the end is near." That is, the end of the world will be to the sin-loving world "an over-whelming surprise." AND, because the end is SO near, she advocates that Christians (and, especially those who know the truth) study the Bible diligently to make adequate preparation for the second coming of Messiah. After all, we ARE in the "anti-typical Day of Atonement," and the investigative judgment is in session, requiring a special preparation to become "fitted for translation."

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If I may differ with you...It may refer more to when probation closes and all restraint is removed... Unfortunately we do not know how long that period will be, but we are told we will need a very strong faith to get through it. That is the understanding I am coming to.

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If I may differ with you...It may refer more to when probation closes and all restraint is removed... Unfortunately we do not know how long that period will be, but we are told we will need a very strong faith to get through it. That is the understanding I am coming to.
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Rev 13 - tells us that first comes "signs and wonders" in vs 11-13 and then tells us that this leads to the image and then the vs 13-17 mark of the beast.

Yet how few pastors today are warning their people to be watching for those signs and wonders.

in Christ,

Bob

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no wonder christ insisted that be watchfullest ye be deceived,weshould not sitdown and start calculating on how the nsl will be brought nor fixate our minds that this is how it will come about,the truth is it shall be and maybe in other countries it is.as the pple keep knowing more then the enemy is changing the tactics.he used it @ the time christ was expected that when he wasborn none recognised he was the one they kept thinking christ is coming yet he was with them. keepon the watch,vigillantly and be wise

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Ok, I see. :)

Originally Posted By: Teresa
If I may differ with you...It may refer more to when probation closes and all restraint is removed... Unfortunately we do not know how long that period will be, but we are told we will need a very strong faith to get through it. That is the understanding I am coming to.

Teresa,

I am not seeing a need to "differ." What you describe is "Jacob's Trouble" which comes after human probation's close. This is the same in my mind as the "end of the world" since all cases have been decided for life or eternal death. Of course we must remember that "Jacob's Trouble" is only felt by the remnant faithful who have refused to bow the knee to human legislation that restricts Sabbath-keepers' liberty.

For the world, they will not know, as the Scripture indicates:

Quote:
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt. 24:38, 39)

Part of my point was that the world was not (in Ellen White's day) and is not prepared for the end, and when it comes (judgments, close of probation, etc.), their experience will be an "overwhelming surprise," but for them it does not strike home until they see the end has come. The other point I intended to make is that the "overwhelming surprise" is not associated with bringing on the "national Sunday law."

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