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What makes God real to you?

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1 hour ago, debbym said:

I wasn't judging my mother.

As I've said You heard wrong.  .

I was judging myself.

Someone here earlier today.. told me this isn't the place to bare one's soul.

Shame on me.

I already knew that.


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rudywoofs (Pam)

Gay, your post didn't strike me as judgmental of your Mom at all. 

So there's that.  

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9 hours ago, debbym said:


i drive myself crazy trying to put my thoughts in type.

besides my bad spelling and poor grammar ..i look down when i type and look up and it dont make sense and spend time correcting myself and forgetting what i was just trying to say

i also type in the dark with no cap light and my gay pinky hits cap and i have to back up and delete so it doesnt look like im yelling

It takes work to even cap the the first letter of my sentences. cause i have no cap light lol
my mind goes a million miles an hour while i struggle typing with one chicken beak
i can debate in real life, not with type
I can tell a good story in real life.
not here. they dont even make sense when i read it to myself and actually scrap the whole thing and just say a few words when i want to say more.
i leave out words and even a sentence thinking i already type it.  in my fast mind its already said
it sometimes explain my tortured syntax and  inconsistent uses of words that i use switching past present and future in this case.
if u wanna do some footwork..go to past lengthy posts in the archives  and you will see it misses so many marks
recently in one thread i said i was a universalist and i didnt notice till much later
i corrected it.
but most of my posts or threads i start I get no traction or response so  there ya go.
i just leave it.
releasing it and try not to tie myself in a bun wanting to control everything
not caring if they think im joking or serious or being to melo dramatic
maybe that's why people scratch their heads and say nothing.

in the wretched post about my mom hating God one i left out the words." I became morose "
and should have conveyed a
"what if"
and stated out loud  my spiraling down thinking accompanying the news and shock afterwords

I thought it showed

as i was typing i was emotionally going down a dark place as i iunfolded,
i put myself out there
resonating with a thing i saw on the power of becoming vulnerable and authentic in dealing with life and faith and things not working out they way we think it should
seemingly anyways
 God becomes vulnerable with us every moment.(that's another thread i would love to talk about)
i guess no one could tell i was exposing my fragile heart in all this
no one commented on that part.
just my "judging" part it seemed

I only can say My mom hated God... That was always made clear .. I will not go into detail on how that showed up all her life to me or to others.

when i type upbeat things my heart is warmed in that moment..sometimes so much i could just burst!
and conversely when i type upsetting things i feel it at that moment and can get caught up in that too.
it works like that when i talk also

I should have been in the theater.

My mom had that dream for me.

And herself.

and seeing my wretch post  again ..i would have made myself more clear on how appalling it was to me  looking back how i considered my mom as a missionary project that the church taught me to look upon people outside the church
but i definitely didnt want to wax on about that here.
i just put a crying face instead ;'(

i was taking the blame and shame if my mom wasn't saved,

Gail understood where I was coming from from what i see in her post..
No one else said anything. Or had the chance to as of yet.

..so many of my posts here have been about me seeing God different than i use to.

I grew up thinking he hated me. That was made clear to me at age 12/13. I bristle seeing that to this day.
there are many posts here i wish i reworded or added more details.
in my head they are there and even when i proof read i dont catch it..
im a melodramitic talker ..not a good writer
On fb i correct things I said many days later cause i would just not see it for a few days.
here i have ten minutes and cringe many times and end up thinking at my own posts.
"whatever" ..just like a few  readers do im sure
a little side note here on how i share
I think i take up too much of peoples time when i get longwinded
and leave parts out.
if inquired ..i dive deeper..
if summed up wrongly or misunderstood...
i feel i have no place to go in sharing and cannot defend myself.
im taking a great risk defending/clarifying myself here and now.
since i have a hard time conveying my intent
i usually make it worse
esp with people who have a jaundice eye.
it is hard to gather my bearings when i feel misunderstood
..if somone inquired i would have shown a different mood sharing how my sis and i comforted by the thief on the cross story and i would have waxed on How God saves billions,
which dont get much traction or agreement in other places on this forum


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28 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:


Well thank you my Dear for saying that.


I was so upset I came off that way in that post.

I used to judge her like i was taught to -SHE NEEDED TO BE SAVED! .

But in the last few years I found a God that doesn't judge her or me. He just loves!

And agonize I couldn't get my mom to see this wonderful God i found as of late,


She closed me down along time ago.

I'm shattered I exemplified the wrong GAWD!

Now my mom is dead and it's too late.

thats what my post was about


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1 hour ago, GayatfootofCross said:



Yes, this black and white words is such a narrow limited communication, trying to make words say what words cannot say.  i think it is really only about 1 percent of  what we are thinking and feeling when we try to communicate in writing. you expressed well the amazing growing journey you have taken and how your mom is not here to witness this journey, and how you love her.  Most of what we have known or know  is non verbal,  and most of what we think about we have never spoken.  And very little of what we have talked about we have committed to writing about.

  i am not understood or at least it it not communicated to me in my family that i am understood or felt understood by my mother or father.  That longing to connect and have fellowship and be understood and to understand,  to belong,  to be loved, and embraced by others unconditionally loved by the family of God is a divine gift.  How precious when that longing is filled, when we have peace and fellowship and love in the family of God with closeness and intimacy.  Too often we love or are loved from a distance, and  if that is all there is we settle for that.

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Wow! I'm happy for the clarification 

I have found myself in situations that afterwards I so wished I could go back and undo. I know the shame of that realisation. I tell myself that it's easier to be careful than to have to backtrack and apologise later.

Gay, your remark about viewing people as conversion targets is one that I have heard and read from both XSDAs and Adventists who have struggled with their lack of success in the venture. It really made me think about how it feels to be treated as such (a missionary project). As a result, I backed away from my family (yes, me, too!) and tried to find ways to treat them as I would like to be treated. 

We know that we desperately want a heavenly home for the ones that mean the most to us now. We know that Jesus WON people's wherever He went. The puzzle is how to narrow the gap in the two methods.

Maybe that is why He told us to take His yoke upon us and learn of Him. And I believe that is what you are doing.

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As I think of it, I would like to say to Geaorrge that I have been really trying to understand your dilemma. I so appreciate your willingness to explain how it is for you. 

I know it is easy for others to pinpoint the block in someone else but please don't let that discourage you. I don't know why you have had the struggle you have. I am happy that in spite of it you are here with us  :grouphug:

And I am happy that you have shared! 

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I guess my question would have to be 'which God?' That's probably just because I'm too analytical, but I also don't think I can answer the question in the OP without asking that question.

I've been watching this thread throughout its life, and refraining from posting. The reason was that, if the God in question is an interventionist God as usually described in Adventism and Christianity, my answer would have to be 'nothing'. Nothing makes that God real to me. I didn't want to post that because I thought it would bring my friends here down.

I'm not an atheist: I do think a God exists. But it is a God that is larger than our universe, and that our universe exists within. This view is described as 'panentheism'. This infinite God contains all possibilities, and does not directly intervene in our lives. When it comes to what we can observe and measure, there is no perceptible difference between how the world looks from a panentheist perspective and from a purely naturalistic perspective.

So I guess what makes God real for me is a set of beliefs and ideas, but that the God that is real for me is somewhat unlike the God worshipped by most of my friends here.

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 But it is a God that is larger than our universe, and that our universe exists within.

And because of that, we have tried to make Him more like ourselves in order to have some consept of who or what He is.

When ever the question is asked, I am reminded of an Episode from Star Trek about who or what God is. It was very interesting and no, I do not remeber the name of the episode.

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I am stubborn enough to keep going through the motions every day, but I'm not getting anywhere.   Every time I look at a blank page I feel the weight of responsibility to fill it with something valuable, and a sense of dread that I will have to do everything alone until I can reliably do that.  I ask God for help, over and over and over again, for so many years, and come up empty.  I understand that I might not get to have anything outside of myself to keep me going, but so far that hasn't worked too well. 

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I have a feeling, Bravus, that your perception of God is not all that unlike many of the rest of us. We just may not voice it as you have!


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On 3/18/2018 at 11:16 AM, debbym said:


thank you ..I feel understood and that means a lot to me.

I have great respect for you and like to see your thoughts whereever i happen upon them.

Yesterday my mom would have been 74.


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i think of the blind men all touching a different part of the elephant describing the elephant.  i think i am all of the blind men,  touching a different aspect or quality of God at different times in my life or at different places of need.  My God provides for all of my needs, and my needs vary through the day, and from the cradle to the grave.  Over the development of my life my needs are changing.  What i would draw from God is shifting, and to put all those provisions together with all those needs,  yes they draw a picture of me, in a relationship to a providing God.  I am not seeing one without the other.  Yes we see God through the lens of our being which he created with the potential of knowing him.

so many times i wept and my tears were subdued, but not immediately.  i had a season of tears flowing.  or my tummy was hungry, and i hungered, but food came.  or i hungered for God,  then as much as i could bear the Spirit came, or i hungered for wisdom, drops of wisdom came, now i am longing for more,  more of Christ in my relationships...  like Elijah sending his servant to search the sky on Mt. Carmel, and when the servant finally came back and said he  saw a small cloud Elijah said run, the rain is coming.  I believe the rain is coming.  

and when i am dying and need more time, and need more air and need relief from pain...  it may not come till the resurrection, but indeed, oh yes indeed it will come.  God is many things at many times of many needs, He is the provider, sustainer, creator, innovator, re-creator, preserver, cleanser, protector,  author,  life giver.. and more  are you alive?  are you forgiven?  do you have faith? are you holding up in a long struggle?  do you spend time surrounded by nature? are you bearing up in discouragement? are you buoyed up after a long course of more difficult days?  are you living insights gained?  are you hoping for better days?  I offer that these are lenses by which we may glimpse God by faith.

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I hope I state this accurately ...

What makes God real to me is my faith in Him.  I choose to believe; and shape my worldview on that fundamental choice.  I cannot explicitly prove that  God exists"; but I believe it so strongly that it might as well be a fact to me.  Bravus asked earlier "which God?" for me it is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses - and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

People who do not believe in God choose to not believe in Him; and their worldview is shaped by that fundamental choice.

Bottom line (at least for me) is that God is real, whether one chooses to believe or not.

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the exercise of faith renews the realness of God to me also.  if i let faith lay  with being exercised the reality o God can grow dim.  i believe that is why there are warnings about neglecting our salvation.  not  so good to neglect to pray and exercise faith.

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