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tribeofjudah

The 144,000

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tribeofjudah    0
tribeofjudah

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed and over-discussed.  It seems that many believe that there will ONLY be 144,000 people who shall never taste death.......meaning they remain alive when Jesus comes.  This is what I'm hearing and getting from many people.  This makes me sad as I have 2 small children and IF the Lord Jesus returns in 5-10 years or less, my small children will NOT be strong enough to withstand the tribulation.  Will God put them to sleep/slumber before Jesus comes?  

I understand that the 144,000 have a Special Work to do on the earth.............therefore those cannot be children, in my view.  Please explain to me.  I know many saints shall be in heaven from the time of Adam until the last day.  It saddens me to think/discover that only 144,000 will remain alive and NEVER taste death.  Now, that is special......but is this true and accurate to the Bible?  EG White?

thank you

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LifeHiscost    638
LifeHiscost

I would like to suggest that since the Creator God is Love, no one will be excluded from the heavenly home that is safe to take there. All the more reason to teach your young ones of Jesus care as soon as they are able to understand He loves them.

Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” ...Mark 10

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  :D   :prayer: :offtobed:

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JoeMo    1,678
JoeMo

Hey ToJ,

I'm not gonna post it here; but take a look at Rev. 7.  It describes two groups of people - the 144,000 and the unnumbered multitude. From the context, I believe that the 144,000 are ethnic Israelites - 12,000 from each tribe.  There may or may not be members of spiritual Israel in that group - those Gentiles who through adoption and "grafting in" (See Romans 11) become the seed of Abraham.  Rev. 7 then goes on to describe a great multitude that have also come through the tribulation into the Kingdom.  I'm not "laying down an immutable truth" here; just stating my opinion.

The below is (IMHO) an immutable truth - we serve a God of life who wants to save all those who love Him - not a god of death who wants to torture and kill everyone who breaks the smallest jot and tittle of his rules.  If we believe that Yahweh is God, and that faith in the sacrifice and blood of His Son Jesus Christ saves us, and maintain that faith through the tribulation, we will be saved.  God doesn't save us because we are good; He saves us because He is good.  Jesus didn't come here to make bad people good; He came here to make dead people alive.  Being "good" is a (wonderful) side effect of having the Spirit inside of you and following the impulses It gives you.

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LifeHiscost    638
LifeHiscost
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

 Being "good" is a (wonderful) side effect of having the Spirit inside of you and following the impulses It gives you.

And may I add, the more of the Word one stays in touch with, the more apt one is to receive those impulses.

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”....John 8

God is Love!~Jesus saves!   :D

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Rahab    30
Rahab

seven churches

seven Spirits

seven candlesticks

seven stars

seven golden candlesticks

four and twenty seats

four and twenty elders sitting

seven lamps

four beasts

seven horns

seven eyes

seven seals

twelve thousand of the tribe

seven thunders

twelve stars

seven heads

ten horns

ten crowns

1000 years

etc.
 What do you notice about these numbers and also 

what do you notice about the nouns that follow them?

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Gregory Matthews    3,281
Gregory Matthews

TribeofJudah said in the quote below:

Whatever the so-called tribulation is, no one will have the strength to withstand it on their own.  God will be at their side giving every person whatever strength that they need.

We humans are never our savior.  Christ (God) is always our savior.

Quote

. . . my small children will NOT be strong enough to withstand the tribulation. 

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest

TribeofJudah,

You seem to have two concerns.  You are concerned about the future of you young children, and you would like to know who the 144,000 will be. 

Personally, I would be very glad to "sleep" through the "time of trouble".  The sleep would seem like only a moment.  But if I am called to endure through that time, then Christ will sustain and strengthen. 

Who are the 144,000 - of Israel?

First: It all depends on just who are Israel.   Some define "Israel" as only those of Hebrew descent from Jacob.  Others - like me - define "Israel" as living branches of the "Olive Tree" (Romans 11).  Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are drawing life from the "holy root" of that Tree.  Faith in Jesus determines whether one is attached to that Tree - not DNA. 

The 144,000 come from EVERY TRIBE - not just from Judah.  So they are NOT all Jews. 

There is a study on this topic on my website:  Here's the link.  http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/18b-Israel-Part II - Who are Israel.pdf

Second:  The 144,000 were seen by John, "standing on Mount Zion".   This need not be a literal standing.  It could be spiritual - like Hebrews 12:22.  The writer of Hebrews 12:22 said "you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels".  He said this to those who believed in Jesus Christ.  He was not saying they had literally come to the New Jerusalem.  He meant they had joined this community, and that this location would be their sure and certain destination.  He meant that they stood with the true God of Mount Zion.  

Third:  If the number is symbolic rather than literal - then other possibilities present.   The 144,000 are all "virgins"  - meaning they can marry the High Priest of Israel.  They are the "bride of the Lamb".  They are pure and worthy, their past sins having been washed away.  They can enter the place He has prepared for His bride - the New Jerusalem.  That City has 12 gates, and over each gate is the name of a tribe of Israel.  

12,000 from each "tribe".   If "Israel" consists of all those who worship Christ as Lord and Savior, then the whole would BE Israel redeemed. 

Fourth:  The 144,000 are called "first fruits to God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:4).  The "first fruits" were not necessarily better than the rest of the harvest - quality wise.  They were just harvested "first". 

First fruits implies a greater harvest to come.  The bulk of the harvest is the "great multitude which no one could number" (Rev 7:9).  The people of this "multitude" are from "all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues".  The people of this "great multitude" stand before the throne.  They have palm branches (symbolizing victory) and they are clothed with white robes (symbolizing purity and righteousness) which are white because they were "washed in the blood of the Lamb".  So these people are redeemed.   

The "great multitude" have "come out of the great tribulation".  This could be the last great "time of trouble" OR it could be that Heaven regards this entire earth experience down here, tempted and persecuted by Satan, slowly dying, etc. etc. AS "the great tribulation".   Certainly no such tribulation has occurred anywhere else in God's universe.  The 144,000 and the great multitude have gone through it and have come out victorious. 

Another very interesting point is that these people of the "great multitude" "are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple."  Only priests could ENTER the Temple of Yahweh.  And only PRIESTS could be serving in His Temple.  This means the people of the "great multitude" will be part of the "first resurrection".  Rev. 20:6  "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.  Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." 

Fifth:  The 144,000 is the answer to the question posed in Rev. 6:17.  "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"  The 144,000 stand - with the Lamb, on Mount Zion - on THAT DAY - the day when God's wrath is poured out.  That is judgment day - the DAY when Christ returns to execute judgment. 

My conclusion is that the 144,000 will be those who are living to see Christ come.  The "great multitude" will be those who are resurrected by Christ at His return. 

Just my opinion, based upon my study - up to this point.  Someone here may show me texts which suggest other views. 

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JoeMo    1,678
JoeMo

ToJ,

I highly recommend the study on 8thdaypriest's website.  It will answer many of your questions and probably stimulate more.  

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JoeMo    1,678
JoeMo
3 hours ago, Rahab said:

What do you notice about these numbers and also 

what do you notice about the nouns that follow them?

You're like the Riddler, Rahab.  First the numbers ... Most of them are all "biblically significant" numbers. 7 for perfection, 12 number of patriarchs and number of apostles, 24 (12X2) combined number of number of first fruits (patriarchs from OT; apostles from NT).

The nouns are all prophetic eschatological symbols.

Some you left out:

1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 70 weeks, 62 weeks, 7 weeks, 3 angels, 2 prophets, 3 unclean frogs, one hour.

 

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Rahab    30
Rahab
2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

You're like the Riddler, Rahab.  First the numbers ... Most of them are all "biblically significant" numbers. 7 for perfection, 12 number of patriarchs and number of apostles, 24 (12X2) combined number of number of first fruits (patriarchs from OT; apostles from NT).

The nouns are all prophetic eschatological symbols.

Some you left out:

1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 70 weeks, 62 weeks, 7 weeks, 3 angels, 2 prophets, 3 unclean frogs, one hour.

 

thank you for adding to the list....

So what's the point?                                all numbers in Revelation are literal

BUT notice that the nouns that follow them are symbolic as you have stated.

Are we literal Israel? 

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tribeofjudah    0
tribeofjudah

Deep thoughts and study indeed.  God bless you all.  I will browse the website recommended.   

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JoeMo    1,678
JoeMo
5 hours ago, Rahab said:

 all numbers in Revelation are literal

Wow!  Good call! I agree 100%.  The numbers in both Revelation and Daniel are literal.  I would also propose that to 70th week (7 years) and most of the things we listed will take place in the near future.

5 hours ago, Rahab said:

Are we literal Israel? 

Tricky question.  If you are asking if Christianity has replaced Israel as the seen of Abraham, definitely not.  We are ADDED to the seed of Abraham, but we do not replace ethnic Israel. Read Romans 11, if you have not ever done so (you probably have).  If you are asking if we are part of ethnic Israel, who knows?  The Jews know they are; but there are 11 other tribes of Israel that are unaccounted for.  God says He will include 12,000 from each tribe to make up the 144,000.  outside of the 12,000 from the tribe oj Judah, the other 132,000 are currently unaccounted for.

There are LOTS of discussions on this topic elsewhere in Adventistan.  Just search for the topic and you will find enough to keep you busy for days!

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest
19 hours ago, JoeMo said:

You're like the Riddler, Rahab.  First the numbers ... Most of them are all "biblically significant" numbers. 7 for perfection, 12 number of patriarchs and number of apostles, 24 (12X2) combined number of number of first fruits (patriarchs from OT; apostles from NT).

The nouns are all prophetic eschatological symbols.

Some you left out:

1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 70 weeks, 62 weeks, 7 weeks, 3 angels, 2 prophets, 3 unclean frogs, one hour.

 

And how 'bout 666

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest

Paul said, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."

Thinking of that, one wonders which could be called the "first" fruits.   The resurrected will be "harvested" first. 

Maybe the 144,000 will be those who reach a certain depth of relationship with the LORD - like Enoch.

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Rahab    30
Rahab
18 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Wow!  Good call! I agree 100%.  The numbers in both Revelation and Daniel are literal.  I would also propose that to 70th week (7 years) and most of the things we listed will take place in the near future.

Tricky question.  If you are asking if Christianity has replaced Israel as the seen of Abraham, definitely not.  We are ADDED to the seed of Abraham, but we do not replace ethnic Israel. Read Romans 11, if you have not ever done so (you probably have).  If you are asking if we are part of ethnic Israel, who knows?  The Jews know they are; but there are 11 other tribes of Israel that are unaccounted for.  God says He will include 12,000 from each tribe to make up the 144,000.  outside of the 12,000 from the tribe oj Judah, the other 132,000 are currently unaccounted for.

There are LOTS of discussions on this topic elsewhere in Adventistan.  Just search for the topic and you will find enough to keep you busy for days!

consider this:

Galatians 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

and

1 John 5:12  He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 
 

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whbae    122
whbae

If 144.000 is literal number then, you have to believe in  predestination. Predestination means that God already set the people aside to be saved. Therefore, there won't be one number less or more, so logically speaking this number is symbolic to me.

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Rahab    30
Rahab
49 minutes ago, whbae said:

If 144.000 is literal number then, you have to believe in  predestination. Predestination means that God already set the people aside to be saved. Therefore, there won't be one number less or more, so logically speaking this number is symbolic to me.

2 Chronicles 19:7  Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts. 
Romans 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God
 

God has given us all a choice, and it is by those choices that we show whose side we are on.

There will be a great multitude that will be saved and come from the graves at the first Resurrection of the righteous, but the 144K are special as they are translated without seeing death

Revelation 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 
 

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest
55 minutes ago, Rahab said:

2 Chronicles 19:7  Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts. 
Romans 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God
 

God has given us all a choice, and it is by those choices that we show whose side we are on.

There will be a great multitude that will be saved and come from the graves at the first Resurrection of the righteous, but the 144K are special as they are translated without seeing death

Revelation 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 
 

Where did you get that  - your statement that the 144,000 will be translated without seeing death?   I don't find a statement to that effect in Revelation.  Are you quoting Ellen White? 

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stinsonmarri    58
stinsonmarri

You know it is so sad that we do not take the time and see significant patterns in the Bible. Secondly, we do not listen what James and Ellen White and our other pioneers provided. First YAHWEH always used small numbers to do great things. Remember Gideon, Joshua and Caleb out of 10! So many are hung on the Hebrews who in Deut Chapter 28 was warned if they did not followed Him and be obedient, their seed would be wiped off the earth. The people that claim the false religion of Judaic, they themselves declare they are not Hebrews or Israel.

"STRICTLY SPEAKING IT IS INCORRECT TO CALL AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE A ‘ JEW' OR TO CALL A CONTEMPORARY JEW AN ISRAELITE OR A HEBREW." (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood. The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. Genesis 10:1-3 (New King James Version)

The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women, according to study published today (October 8) in Nature Communications. While the Jewish religion began in the Near East, and the Ashkenazi Jews were believed to have origins in the early indigenous tribes of this region, new evidence from mitochondrial DNA, which is passed on exclusively from mother to child, suggests that female ancestors of most modern Ashkenazi Jews converted to Judaism in the north Mediterranean around 2,000 years ago and later in west and central Europe.

The new findings contradict previous assertions that Ashkenazi mitochondrial lineages originated in the Near East, or from mass conversions to Judaism in the Khazar kingdom, an empire in the north Caucasus region between Europe and Asia lasting from the 7th century to the 11th century whose leaders adopted Judaism. “We found that most of the maternal lineages don’t trace to the north Caucasus, which would be a proxy for the Khazarians, or to the Near East, but most of them emanate from Europe,” said coauthor Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in the U.K. Genetic Roots of the Ashkenazi Jews. http://www.the-scientist.com.

All of this proves that that the Hebrews were Semitic and mix with the Hamitic people. After the last dispersion the Hebrew finalized the curse. They said let "HIS BLOOD be on us and our children." The prophecy was fulfilled that already was given in both Gen 9:27, that "Japheth shall dwell in the tents of Shem." Then YAHWEH gave both blessings if they obeyed and curse of removing their seed if they didn't. Gen 28

Now if we take a look at the 12 sons of Israel, Dan is not mention, also the word Israel means to overcome. Ancient Israel did not stay true to THE FATHER; checkmate off the scene like HE did the Canaanites who the Bible specifically show they were chosen first! Gen 15:16; Chapter 20, the righteous nation, (Jethro was Abraham and Keturah's child. He was the high priest of the Midianites. Keturah was a Canaanite. Gen 25:1 Moses married Jethro's daughter.) He then made a call to the Gentiles who are Japheth children and they too today have fail. So he will collect Israel of today, they will overcome first and be sealed from all nations, but only 144,000!

Here where do not see the facts: YAHSHUA said HIS Heavenly Kingdom was like 10 virgins. Again a small group but the number 10 means this small group is universal or will be gather together from around the world. HE the divides them into five wise and five foolish. Both Dan 12:3 and Rev 14:4 clearly states wise in one and virgins in the other. Then EGW first vision was very clear in Early Writings. She was looking for the Advent people and she was told to look up! She first saw people, which is an uncountable number. But a lot fell of the path, the she call the rest who followed YAHSHUA a band, but they also got tired and many of them fell the only ones left was a 144,000. She also saw their names in the Heavenly Temple and she was told she along with them will visit other planets if she remain faithful and give the message. That is very clear so many do not want to accept the facts.

Here how Satan has come in and trick us! Having us to believe that the Time of Trouble we will be persecuted. That is wrong and the Bible does no said that anywhere, if so show me. Did our pioneers believed in some errors, yes they did and EGW stated in TM p. 105 that we should study the Bible and correct error. She made it clear that THE ALMIGHTY is INFALLIBLE. Dan 12:3, 7 needs to be understood because these verses are clear. It said very clear that these wise righteous one will lead many to the truth. Verse 7 speaks of YAHSHUA swearing to HIS FATHER that time is finish. The 144,000 had reaped in the harvest. "The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few," the song proclaims! After HE says this, most do not look at the grammar! Look: ; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Then Revelation explains this very clearly in Rev 11:7 continues when they have finish then the beast (who is not the papacy, nor Islam or US president. He is a man who was once a prodigy of the Catholic Church but leaves her! Read Rev 17), will come from the bottomless pit. That is not here, we talk about that another time. My point is the 144,000 is literal and they will finish during the 3 1/2 literal years the work! Why? Because the wheat must be separated from the tares! The three angels are the 144,000 and they will bring the great multitude that no man can number from ever known and unknown religions of this earth. They will be empowered and some will be children as well. There were children in the Bible that witness why not in the last days???? I will explain according to the Bible the symbols soon!

Blessings!

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Rahab    30
Rahab
On 6/30/2017 at 8:15 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Where did you get that  - your statement that the 144,000 will be translated without seeing death?   I don't find a statement to that effect in Revelation.  Are you quoting Ellen White? 

1 Corinthians 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

1 Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 

Revelation 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 
Revelation 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 
 

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest
11 hours ago, Rahab said:

1 Corinthians 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

1 Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 

Revelation 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 
Revelation 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 
 

 7:14 is not describing the 144,000.    7:14 is talking about the "great multitude which no one could number".    The 144,000 are numbered.

Maybe the 144,000 are part of the "great multitude", just as the "firstfruits" are part of the harvest as a whole. 

If the "great multitude" came out of "the great tribulation", then this "tribulation" is not just the last few weeks/months of this age.  It is the whole experience of "tribulation" - being tempted by Satan, suffering physical pain, etc. etc.  It is the tribulation we experience under Satan's dominion. 

I stated my belief that the 144,000 is a symbolic number for those who are translated without seeing death.  (Elijah was the TYPE - preaching against Ahab, hunted for 3.5 years before being translated.)  They stand on Mount Zion, symbolically.  Their virginity is a symbol for the purity of their faith.

On 6/29/2017 at 2:09 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

My conclusion is that the 144,000 will be those who are living to see Christ come.  The "great multitude" will be those who are resurrected by Christ at His return. 

Rahab,

When I asked where you found that, I thought maybe you had found a verse that I had not noticed before, that specifically said the 144,000 are those translated (not resurrected). 

I believe as you do, that the 144,000 will be those translated.  I just came to that conclusion by a different route. 

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Rahab    30
Rahab

Rev 7:2  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea
Rev 7:3  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 
Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 
Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 
Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 
 

This is a special group 144K that have been sealed before the 4 winds are let loose......and they have come out of GREAT tribulation.  They serve Jesus in the temple.

 

of all the people before the flood how many made it through?  8

of all the multitudes that came out of Egypt how many made it to the promised land? 2

this is truth.

 

Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 
 

the 144k are numbered as their name and each 'tribe' as described before....  this large multitute group that comes AFTER cannot be numbered and are referred to as  a great multitude... these are all those that have come up from the graves from all time beginning with Adam, Eve, Abel  

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest
7 hours ago, Rahab said:

Rev 7:2  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea
Rev 7:3  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 
Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 
Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 
Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 
 

This is a special group 144K that have been sealed before the 4 winds are let loose......and they have come out of GREAT tribulation.  They serve Jesus in the temple.

 

of all the people before the flood how many made it through?  8

of all the multitudes that came out of Egypt how many made it to the promised land? 2

this is truth.

 

Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 
 

the 144k are numbered as their name and each 'tribe' as described before....  this large multitute group that comes AFTER cannot be numbered and are referred to as  a great multitude... these are all those that have come up from the graves from all time beginning with Adam, Eve, Abel  


Revelation 6:17 to 7:15 

6:17  "for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to damage earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have marked the servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel: . . . . . .

Do you see a break here?  One group is the 144,000 and the next group is "the great multitude".  One group is from the tribes of Israel, and the other is "from every nation". 

7:9 "After this I looked, and there was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, robed in white, with palm branches in their hands. 10 They cried out in a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11 And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 singing, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen." 13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, robed in white, and where have they come from?" 14 I said to him, "Sir, you are the one that knows." Then he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great ordeal; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship him day and night within his temple, and the one who is seated on the throne will shelter them." (NRS)

The 144,000 may be part of the greater "multitude" but the "great multitude" are not the 144,000. 

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8thdaypriest    1,168
8thdaypriest

It's just my opinion, but I believe a great number of saints from the OT age were resurrected by Christ, just after He came forth from His tomb. 

Matthew 27:51 "At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many."

I believe these saints became the 24 Elders, who present incense, "which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).   The 24 Elders do say they were "redeemed" to God by the blood of Christ (Rev. 5:9).

The number 24, is taken from King David's division of the priesthood into 24 courses, who rotated their service every two weeks, based upon the Hebrew calendar and their clans (1Chronicles Cpt 24-25).  John's Jewish readers would have been familiar with that number, because it was part of the Temple ceremony. 

So - I believe there are more than just 24 persons, who were resurrected, and who are now in Heaven.  Only 24 serve before God's throne - at any one time - but we don't know how many were actually resurrected and ascended with Christ to Heaven.    It could possibly have been ALL of the saints from the Old Testament era.  

  

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stinsonmarri    58
stinsonmarri
23 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

It's just my opinion, but I believe a great number of saints from the OT age were resurrected by Christ, just after He came forth from His tomb. 

Matthew 27:51 "At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many."

I believe these saints became the 24 Elders, who present incense, "which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).   The 24 Elders do say they were "redeemed" to God by the blood of Christ (Rev. 5:9).

The number 24, is taken from King David's division of the priesthood into 24 courses, who rotated their service every two weeks, based upon the Hebrew calendar and their clans (1Chronicles Cpt 24-25).  John's Jewish readers would have been familiar with that number, because it was part of the Temple ceremony. 

So - I believe there are more than just 24 persons, who were resurrected, and who are now in Heaven.  Only 24 serve before God's throne - at any one time - but we don't know how many were actually resurrected and ascended with Christ to Heaven.    It could possibly have been ALL of the saints from the Old Testament era.  

  

You are correct but remember it was a great multitude. So some are there to witness the Investigated Judgment in the Heavenly Courtroom. All those who went to Heaven from death or translation down through Adam until YAHSHUA was resurrected,  have to be sealed first. That is why SDA do not understand that the horses represent different periods of the earth. Gen Chapter six!

White Horse (earth) When it was pure but the riders were Adam and his wife-sealed

Red Horse (earth) First time it experience blood of man. Rider Cain but save Abel to Methuselah-sealed

Black Horse (earth) Paganism grew so rapidly after the flood, man was scattered, but trade started. YAHWEH still had the Word and THE HOLY RUACH! Rider Nimrod-Noah to (YAHSHUA) the Apostles-sealed

Gray Horse (earth) now the earth is beginning to start dying because of so much sin. Paganism have corrupted the church making a false claim. THE SACRED NAMES removed and using pagan names, tried to change the Sabbath, making and painting false representation of YAHWEH and YAHSHUA. All of the Commandments dealing with ELOHIYM were completely changed, that HONOR THE MOST HIGH. Ex 1-11 The rider the Papacy, but those saved are Martyrs that died for THE MOST HIGH! From the Nicene decreed of burning the first true people of YAHWEH in arena's down to the beginning of the Middle Ages-sealed

No more horses-5th seal the Inquisition and killing of martyrs who stood up for the truth. The Middle Ages the Waldensians  through the discovery of America who lived up to all the truth they knew and died-sealed

sixth seal- (great wars, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes plus other climate disasters each all over the earth and oceans more and violence is rapid also the love man has wax cold even in the church! The earth itself is sick and is about to die NOW!!!!!!) Many like the Sabbath Baptist and others here in America, then the Millerite Movement that spread to Europe, the true pioneers of the SDA movement to the 144,000 who will stand and bring the harvest known as the Great Multitude -sealed. The Great Multitude will  be sealed under the Seventh seal during the Time of Trouble, that will start 1-5th Trumpets. Rev 9:4 The 144,000 WILL NOT BE PERSECUTED. They will have The Two Witness-the Bible and just like Moses in Egypt, a comet hits 1/3 of the earth, mountainous asteroid hitting 1/3 of the sea, meteorites hitting the moon and the sun moving them out of their place, meteorites hitting the drinking water. Healing, raising the dead by them and with them the FULL POWER of THE HOLY RUACH of The Loud Cry is upon them, these are the five  wise virgins with their lamps going out to bring in the harvest and they all will meet the BRIDEGROOM when HE comes. Sealed These last two groups are the remnant and will be translated!   HalleuYAH, meaning praise YAH!

Blessings to all!

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