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whbae

2nd commandment

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whbae

The 2nd commandment talks about idols. Some interprets that it is ok to make idols as long as one does not bow down and worship.  What do you think? The KJV ends with ; at the end of the first commandment , do not make idols......, then continues to command not to bow down or worship.                                         

New International Version, New American Standard Bible, and Tanakh the Holy Scripture ends with a period and starts next as a new sentence, verse 5  commanding not to worship....

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Margie

Hi there - not sure what you’re asking specifically. Are you analyzing the second commandment itself? Or are you looking for the Biblical definition of idolatry. A good place to go to would be Romans 1:21-28. It is quite clear, at least to me, that when we serve our own pleasure then we figuratively bow before that idol. 

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Sauliga
On 24/12/2017 at 12:09 PM, whbae said:

The 2nd commandment talks about idols. Some interprets that it is ok to make idols as long as one does not bow down and worship.  What do you think? The KJV ends with ; at the end of the first commandment , do not make idols......, then continues to command not to bow down or worship.                                         

New International Version, New American Standard Bible, and Tanakh the Holy Scripture ends with a period and starts next as a new sentence, verse 5  commanding not to worship....

I guess you're referring to home or garden artefacts, statues etc...I am not sure that the 2nd commandment is referring to those or anything similar ..The important issue in the second commandment is worship. I don't particularly like artefacts or statues, probably because of what I was taught but I think the second commandment only becomes an issue if anything other than the God of heaven is worshipped...Idol worship was a particular focus of the second commandment because it was rampant in those days...don't forget that the Israelites made themselves a "golden calf" just when Moses was receiving the commandments. I guess we now can extend the principle to this commandment to anything that draws us away from God..

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whbae

Not long ago, ADRA sent out to donors an envelope containing a paper which is perforated.  One may cut through the perforation to make an Angel to hang it up somewhere or do something with it.  I was surprised at this kind of thing done by our denomination workers.  I thought this is pretty close to making an idol.

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pierrepaul

The Old Testament includes stories about building the ark of the covenant, complete with the cherubs. Moses forged a bronze serpent.

Can the second commandment be properly interpreted so as to proscribe all representative sculpture? Are all representative artistic endeavors such as drawing, painting or photography to be avoided? Is the creation or display of the SdA Church logo itself a violation of the second commandment?

There are some Christian groups that eschew photography as well as sketching/drawing/painting. Ought we to be like them? Should be avoid illustrated Bibles that contain 2-dimensional depictions of Bible stories?

The English translations of the Bible generally refer to "graven" images. Therefore are only 3-dimensional depictions forbidden (sculpture, bas-relief) while two dimensional depictions (photography, painting, drawing) are OK? What about oil paintings with "texture" giving it a 3-dimensional appearance?

Or does the rule against "graven" images mean that evil is committed only when the artist chips or carves away material to create the image? So building a snowman would be OK, but taking a block of ice and making an ice sculpture would be evil?

I don't have answers to these questions. The second commandment is one of the more difficult ones in my opinion, which has led to wide divergences in practice among various Christian communities.

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TheThirdAngel144
On 12/23/2017 at 8:09 PM, whbae said:

The 2nd commandment talks about idols. Some interprets that it is ok to make idols as long as one does not bow down and worship.  What do you think? The KJV ends with ; at the end of the first commandment , do not make idols......, then continues to command not to bow down or worship.                                         

New International Version, New American Standard Bible, and Tanakh the Holy Scripture ends with a period and starts next as a new sentence, verse 5  commanding not to worship....

I can think of two instances where images were made in the Old Testament, where it was not a violation of the 10 Commandments. They are:

1) Moses makes the brazen serpent. What is to be noticed is that all were merely required to look upon it, and thus they would be healed. But this was a one time event, and the image was not left out so that all could come around, kneel before it, and worship it (although later on, Israel did have that issue, wherein they worshiped the image).

2) The second has to do with when the images of Cherubim were made. The only person who was to see the Cherubim when they were made was the High Priest, and that was once a year. Of course, while Israel was journeying this wasn't the case, but when they became settled in the land, this was to be the case.

Both times the images were only used for their set purposes. Other than that, they were hidden from view from the people.

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chilco

I think we need to look at the principle of the commandment or we will get off on all sorts of strange rules.

We are not to make anything in order to focus our worship upon it.   Don't put up  pictures or images of Jesus, angels, saints, or anything and worship it.  We are not to worship a created object for it is not the true God.  The second commandment goes along with the  first commandment which tells us not to put anything ahead of God, for that too is idol worship.

On the other hand -- we use all sorts of visual objects and pictures to teach and decorate.  God used many visual objects to teach and decorate as you can see if study the sanctuary patterns.   People have created whole miniature sanctuaries, complete with sewing angels on curtains and carving sanctuary furniture out of blocks of wood.  Now if they set it up on an altar and bow down and worship it --then  that's a problem, but if it is used as a teaching device that isn't worshipping it. 

Go into any cradle roll or kindergarten division and you may see paper angels or stars or other objects hanging from the ceiling or tacked up on the walls.   Pictures of Jesus and the children are usually prominently displayed.  

In the olden days we used to have sand tables in children's Sabbath School, and teachers would bring little plastic people, animals, plants and other objects and set up the Bible story scene in the sandbox every Sabbath.   Then came the flannel board years,  when we would do the same thing with figures made out of flannel to illustrate the stories.   Now they seem to use digital images.  

Visual teaching is essential for young children.  And it enhances learning retention in adults as well.

Studies have shown that learning and retention is lowest when we use the lecture method (the most often used method in churches!!!)

An important question is why do churches seem to favor the lowest manner of imparting spiritual truths?

The learning pyramid and retention percentages according to educational sources are:

lecture 5%
Reading 10%
Hearing and Seeing 20%
Demonstration, object lesson 30%
Group Discussion 50%
Practice by Doing 75%
Teaching someone else -sharing 90%



 

 

 

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pierrepaul
On 1/6/2018 at 11:56 PM, chilco said:

Studies have shown that learning and retention is lowest when we use the lecture method (the most often used method in churches!!!)

Amen! When I think of all the hours spent by clergymen preparing sermons that few in attendance ever remember, I wonder if the time wouldn't be better spent on other endeavors.

The only sermons I remember are those I prepared myself - I still remember the sermonette I prepared 30 years ago as a youth of 19 years old; I forget much of our pastor's sermon from last week.

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