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What about the TRINITY....have we lost our WAY?

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stinsonmarri
On 1/10/2018 at 2:52 PM, APL said:

Really?  WE should only discuss things that we all agree on?  We should never discuss something that someone else might not believe?  Is that offending?  Are people that insecure in their beliefs?  Are they offended when their beliefs are challenged?  IF that were true, where is the place for evangelism? Gregory, have you ever changed you mind?  Have you ever help another change their mind on something they were previously convinced? 

 

NOTE - due to the buggy software that runs this site, the quote is attributed to Saluiga instead of the true source, chilco.  Chilco, you state your belief, but what does the Bible say? 

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The one God is the Father.  Christ is the Son of God, and thus has the nature of His Father.  John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself; John 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand.  John 5:27 And has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

And EGW:

 

The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be.{8MR 49.3}

 

We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ. If we commune with God, we shall have strength and grace and efficiency. {Lt66-1894}

 

Who is the Comforter?

 

This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter. {14MR 179.2}

 

Let them study the seventeenth of John, and learn how to pray and how to live the prayer of CHRIST. HE is THE Comforter. He will abide in their hearts, making their joy full. {RH, Jan 27, 1903}

 

As by faith we look to Jesus, our faith pierces the shadow, and we adore God for His wondrous love in giving JESUS THE COMFORTER. {19MR 297.3}

 

Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter. "The Comforter," said Christ to His disciples, "which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you, [John 14:26 quoted] {Ms7-1902, January 26, 1902}

 

The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be. {8MR 49.3}

 

Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18

 

 

 

Have you also read what EGW warned? Read The Review and Herald, July 26, 1892, she clearly stated;

"Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. As long as we hold to our own ideas and opinions with determined persistency. . ." She also said; We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn."

The problem is we pick and choose from EGW writings only the thing we want to accept. Did you know that many of these books that are label to the writings of EGW, she did not write? It about selling her writings in different books for profit. She did not understand everything and yes, she made some errors in here belief and she made it clear that only THE THREE AMIGHTIES are INFALLIBLE!!!

A man by the  name of Leroy Froom, helped put together along with the board of trustee the book called Evangelism (1946). Quickly the White Estate wrote this now:

As Arthur White, at that time director of the White Estate, scanned the files, he found ample material that could be drawn together for a book of counsels on evangelism. On September 10, 1944, the Board of Trustees took the following action:

"Voted: That, in harmony with the recommendation of the Ministerial Association Advisory Council, we authorize the compilation of a manuscript, 'Counsels to Evangelists and Bible Instructors,' the work to be done by a committee of five, appointed by the chair. The committee named as follows: A. L. White, W. H. Branson, R. A. Anderson, Miss Louise Kleuser, J. L. Shuler."--White Estate Board Minutes, Sept. 10, 1944.

Evangelism is not what they claim to compile it was to be 'Counsels to Evangelists and Bible Instructor! What happen?

The EGW estate made this claim:

The last will and testament of Ellen G. White set up a Board of Trustees to manage her estate and produce compilations from her manuscripts. In harmony with this responsibility, the Trustees have issued more than sixty compilations since her death in 1915.

Here is the main portion of EGW Will:

Also, my general manuscript file and all indexes pertaining thereto; also my office furniture and office library. Together with all and singular, the tenements, hereditaments and appurtenances hereunto belonging, or in anywise appertaining in trust nevertheless for the uses and purposes hereinafter contained.

To Have and to Hold, the said real and personal property until said trustees, and their successors, upon the trust to enter into and upon and take possession of the said real estate and said personal property, to collect and receive the rents, issues and profits thereof, to manage and control said real and personal property, and to rent and lease the same, or any part thereof, to sell parts or portions of said real and personal property, excepting the book copyrights, for the purpose of reinvesting the same in other real or personal property to be held under the same trust, and after paying all taxes, assessments, charges and encumbrances thereon and the expenses of repairing, administering, preserving and protecting the said real property and of handling said personal property, and publishing and selling said books and manuscripts and conducting the business thereof to distribute, pay over and apply the net proceeds from the rents and profits of said real property and from the business of publishing and selling said books and property in the manner following, that is to say. . 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 9th day of February, 1912

ELLEN G. WHITE

The foregoing instrument consisting of five pages, besides this, was at the date hereof, and by the said Ellen G. White signed, sealed and published as, and declared to be her last will and Testament, in the presence of us, who at her request, and in her presence, and in the presence of each other, have subscribed our names as witnesses thereto.

C .L. TAYLOR; Residing at Sanitarium, California.

PAUL C. MAS0N; Residing at Sanitarium, California.

ENDORSED: Filed July 21st, 1915

N. W. Collins, Clerk.

By Elva Giauque, Deputy Clerk.

You will find nothing in her will giving the authority to create more books with her writings or compiling her writings for new books. If you read the whole will she name the books which was hers and to present her manuscripts that had not been published before her death.

Here is what the pioneers warned:

The first step of apostasy is to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe. The second is to make that creed a test of fellowship. The third is to try members by that creed. The fourth is to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed. And fifth, to commence persecution against such. Review and Herald, Oct. 8, 1861

"Precious truths for the last days were to be searched out and proclaimed--a work which could not be done in `creed-bound' churches any more than the heralding of the gospel to the world could be accomplished by the apostolic church while retaining a connection with the Jewish sects." (J. N. Loughborough, The Second Angel's Message, page 178, emphasis supplied)

James White Agrees With Loughborough "On the subject of creeds, I agree with Bro. Loughborough," James White stated. "Now I take the ground that creeds stand in direct opposition to the gifts." (Review and Herald , October 8, 1861, emphasis supplied)."Let us suppose a case: We get up a creed, stating just what we shall believe on this point and the other, and just what we shall do in reference to this thing and that, and say that we will believe the gifts too. . " James White, "Doings of the Battle Creek Conference, October 5 & 6, 1861," Review and Herald, Battle Creek, Mich. Third-Day, OCT. 8, 1861)

Here is what Leroy Froom champion for:

"Thus the Truth of the Trinity was set forth in Tract form by the Pacific Press…in February, 1892….It was not written by one of our own men, but by "the late Dr. Samuel Spear."…. This sound and helpful tract by Spear…. was simple, but adequate, as the first step in recognition and declaration. It was the logical aftermath of 1888."

Mr. Froom concludes his brief account by claiming that the book "The Desire of Ages" presented an "inspired depiction" of the trinity doctrine and because of this it has become our denominations' "accepted position."

"...The Desire of Ages, of course, presented an inspired depiction, and was consequently destined to become the denominationally accepted position…. The Desire of Ages…. is one of the most highly esteemed books of the Denomination-a recognized classic, even publicized in such a Catholic journal as the "Universal Fatima News" for September 1965." (Movement of Destiny; pp. 323,324; used by permission)

“I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside of our faith--those previously noted--for initial clues and suggestions.” — (LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny, p. 322)

Now let me be clear, I believe in THE HOLY SPIRIT who is not a ghost! I know through faith that THE FATHER, SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT are a TRIO but not a trinity. The Bible says that THE HOLY SPIRIT does not speaks of HIMSELF. John 16:13

I do not accept the 28 Fundamental Belief because first there were 27, now 28 soon more! The Bible is our creed. We are doing the same thing as the Hebrew did with the Talmud when they came out of the Babylonian exile. We want to set the standard when the Bible already states;

To the Law and the Testimonies if speak not according to this word because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20

We want to make EGW a prophet when she herself said she was not! She said very clear that YAHSHUA told her she would be HIS Messenger. Now surely, HE would have said you will be my prophetess? Then there would not be this misrepresentation at all. THREE BEINGS INDIVIDUALLY working together as a UNION like the Adams.  We twist everything around and know that words have been changed in the Bible by the Protestants. Why? Keeping in with the beliefs they chose. Simply the rest instead of celebration for the Sabbath. Enlarge for Japheth in Gen 9:27 and the Hebrew is "pâthâh," meaning deceitful and every else where is use is stands for that only here it means enlarge! The word season in Gen 1:14 instead of Holy Convocation days and the word in Hebrew is "moed." More of the modern version Bible proves this but not SDA! The pagan word feast which also is "moed" that actually means set or appointed time. We do not want to go there because we do not want observed the other appointed Holy Convocation days. I could go on and on. We have misused EGW so much that young people hate to here about her, and many are writing things on the web against her, taking what she said out of context. She made it clear that she was fallible, but the visions by THE MOST HIGH were not! Why? They were already giving in the Bible. Because of faulty translation and ignore transliteration, YAHWEH had to use her and other as he is still doing today. Here is my two final Scriptures that speak c;e:

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith ELOHI, I will pour out of MY HOLY SPIRIT upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my HOLY SPIRIT; and they shall prophesy: Act 2:16-18

But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1Co 14:3-5 

 Blessings to everyone!

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stinsonmarri

I was trying to make some correction, could not but I hope you get the gist of what I was stating if not please forgive, I edited to much and they kept it with some mistakes.

 

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APL
32 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

A man by the  name of Leroy Froom, helped put together along with the board of trustee the book called Evangelism (1946).

Speak about pick and choose!  Exhibit A.

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The Wanderer
On 1/10/2018 at 2:19 PM, chilco said:

Yes, my mind is made up on that point.   So I think I should probably leave the discussion --
I just want people to know Christ in the fullest sense.   Emmanuel -- God with us.

I agree with Greg, don't leave this discussion. I was enjoying your comments, and agree with what you are saying re how anti-trinitarians tend to "use" the various Bible texts. THE truth about that is that we dont use God's Word; His Word uses us. Thats why the Fundamental Belief on The Holy Spirit is so essential.  He (Holy Spirit) is HOW that Word gets into us, and HOW that Word empowers us to know and witness "the tuth as it is in Jesus."  A nice little saying that we use all the time, but when I think about it; that saying is all about The Holy Spirit. 

PS (just a small soap box for tonight people) :)

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chilco

It's in the OT that we really see Christ as God.

Christ is the One Who went forth from the throne of God and appeared to mankind throughout the OT.  And He is referred to as God, all through the OT.

 

Quote

TrevorL wrote: The references to God in the OT are an Angel who represented God Psalm 8:5.

 

That is a new argument for me, so I need to ask:  Are you saying  your understanding is that  God never actually spoke to anyone in the OT,  it was just an angel?   When scripture says they saw "God"   and describes the glorious being they saw (Ex. 24:11) They didn't see God, just an angel?
Is that how you understand this?

 

When scripture in recounting Moses experience, says "Ex. 3:4 "God called unto him  out of the midst of the bush,  3:5 and said do not come any closer, take off your shoes from your feet, for the ground on which you stand is holy ground,
 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

In your understanding it wasn't really God calling out of the bush to Moses, it was just an angel?  

I'm afraid I'm having trouble understanding this, as it would mean, it wasn't really God in the midst of the bush as the text states,  even though whoever was talking claimed to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  So was Moses confused in thinking that to look was to look upon God?
And what about Moses being asked to remove his shoes because the ground was holy?   Does  an angel's presence make ground holy and he is to be approached  in a worshipful manner?  Yet in Rev. 19:10 an angel rebukes John for that very thing.

Usually when a representative speaks for someone they preface their words with
"This is what the Lord says ......................." or something similar, they don't take the title of "God" for themselves.   They make it clear  they are bearing God's message, they don't just say "I am God".

Psalms 8:5 is talking about the creation of the human race that was created "a little lower than the angels" and was given dominion over the earth (compare with Gen. 1:28).
Later, in the NT the verse is used to show that by taking on human nature, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.   But I don't see any connection here as to angels claiming to be God in the OT.   The only angel I know of that claimed to be "god" is Lucifer. 

So, I'll admit I was a little baffled by your explanation, as there are so many texts in the OT where God speaks -- and in several of them it is quite clear that it is Jesus claiming to be God.

 

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TrevorL

Greetings again chilco,

16 hours ago, chilco said:

In your understanding it wasn't really God calling out of the bush to Moses, it was just an angel?

I suggest that you are in an environment that seeks to find the Trinity in the OT, and sometimes this involves ignoring what the OT Scriptures actually teach. Both Moses and Stephen state that it was an Angel that appeared in the midst of the bush. The word Angel means messenger and the message was from God. So Exodus states “He said”, this is an Angel delivering God’s message. Stephen states that it was “the voice of the Lord”. I believe that the Angel here is the mouthpiece for God’s words. Exodus states that Moses was afraid to look upon God, but this I believe is the Angel, as it clearly states that the Angel was in the midst of the bush, and thus the word Elohim is used for the Angel.

Exodus 3:1 (KJV): And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Acts 7: 30-33 (KJV): 30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold. 33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

17 hours ago, chilco said:

Psalms 8:5 is talking about the creation of the human race that was created "a little lower than the angels" and was given dominion over the earth (compare with Gen. 1:28).
Later, in the NT the verse is used to show that by taking on human nature, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.   But I don't see any connection here as to angels claiming to be God in the OT. 

Psalm 8:5 clearly shows that the word Elohim here is best translated as Angels as confirmed by the exposition based upon this in Hebrews 2, and thus the translation of this word into Greek as angels. The Angels are not claiming to be God, rather it is the language that God uses for those who represent God. The Judges in Israel were also called Elohim John 10:30-36, and they also represented God as Jesus states.

Kind regards Trevor

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The Wanderer
17 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I suggest that you are in an environment that seeks to find the Trinity in the OT, and sometimes this involves ignoring what the OT Scriptures actually teach

This anti-trinitarian reply here in the first sentence is a classic, text-book example of an adhominem response, calculated to denigrate and portray the perceived “opponent” as “ignoring Scripture,” and that based simply on the fact that chico is [apparently] a Trinitarian. When a person chooses this kind of adhominem response as opposed to valid biblical evaluation, it tells us that there may be no way for the discussion to move forward in any meaningful way. This kind of adhominem argument, (and it is argument) is personal, and not Biblical in any sense. It would be like me saying “All anti-trinitarians” do not have a relationship with Him, just because of what they dont believe.

There are lots of trinity tricks that anti-trinitarians like to shuffle around with, but this kind of adhominem is one of their more popular responses. Its simply a debate tactic, having absolutely no Biblical basis at all, and this, in turn, renders suspect the “biblical” part of the response that is piggy-backed to the adhominem.

All of the texts cited have been isolated from context by "word studies" so called..First of all, there is a clue that has been patently overlooked by the anti-trinitarian response here. A simple two-word phrase can be used  to reveal some serious problems in interpretation.

"Holy Ground."  Sounds simple enough, but what does this actually mean in terms of context? Not interpretation. But context. There are  two texts in the entire Bible that mentions it specifically as "holy ground" Exo_3:5  And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
Act_7:33  Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground. And so, of course, it would behoove the anti-trinitarian talking points to simply dismiss the possibility that it is "God" in the burning bush by way of text-book classic ignoring of not the text, but the context. Its not hard to deny direct divine activity and relegate it to indirect divine activity via proxy through non-divine entities in the text. And  when we decide to whip up a verse and say it means something that it does not, atleast it does not  as long as the context is left out.

There is a reason that Moses took off his shoes during the burning bush incident. What was that reason? God Himself said that the place where Moses was standing was "holy ground."  The reason Moses took his shoes off was because he was standing on "holy ground."  But why was it "holy ground?" No place on earth is "holy" unless God Himself is there. It is always "holy ground" when we go by faith into His presence on the wings of prayer. Because He is right there with us when we pray, or talk with Him.

A piece of ground on planet Earth would only be "holy" if God was there.  Do you know of anyone in the entire Bible who took their shoes off, or were told to take them off when there was an angel in their room? None of the texts you cited say God was not there, just because an angel was mentioned. There is much more that could be said, but I am trying to limit my posting in topics like this.

 

Edited by The Wanderer
grammar mistake removed

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TrevorL

Greetings again The Wanderer,

45 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

This anti-trinitarian reply here in the first sentence is a classic, text-book example of an adhominem response, calculated to denigrate and portray the perceived “opponent” as “ignoring Scripture,” and that based simply on the fact that chico is [apparently] a Trinitarian.

Yes I agree, this was poorly expressed and gave the wrong idea and I apologise for this. What I was trying to say is that some of the OT Scriptures give a good introduction to the OT understanding of God, if we are careful in allowing these verses to teach us, and we need to come to these verses without our previous convictions from other sources.

45 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

A piece of ground on planet Earth would only be "holy" if God was there.  Do you know of anyone in the entire Bible who took their shoes off, or were told to take them off when there was an angel in their room?

I should imagine that you would also claim the following is God, even though it is not clearly stated. Joshua sees an armed man, and he then reveals himself as the captain of Yahweh’s host. He does not claim to be Yahweh Himself.

Joshua 5:13–15 (KJV):  13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15 And the captain of the LORD’S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Kind regards Trevor

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debbym
1 hour ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again The Wanderer,

 

 

Yes I agree, this was poorly expressed and gave the wrong idea and I apologise for this. What I was trying to say is that some of the OT Scriptures give a good introduction to the OT understanding of God, if we are careful in allowing these verses to teach us, and we need to come to these verses without our previous convictions from other sources.

 

 

I should imagine that you would also claim the following is God, even though it is not clearly stated. Joshua sees an armed man, and he then reveals himself as the captain of Yahweh’s host. He does not claim to be Yahweh Himself.

Joshua 5:13–15 (KJV):  13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15 And the captain of the LORD’S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Kind regards Trevor

 

 

angels did not accept worship.

Christ did command all the hosts of heaven. 

Christ appeared as a man to Abraham.

Joshua called this being "my Lord".

and this being repeated the words that God spoke to Moses. Take the shoes off your feet...

 

from ...Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Concise)

Verses 13-15 We read not of any appearance of God's glory to Joshua till now. There appeared to him one as a man to be noticed. This Man was the Son of God, the eternal Word. Joshua gave him Divine honours: he received them, which a created angel would not have done, and he is called Jehovah, chap. 6:2 . To Abraham he appeared as a traveller; to Joshua as a man of war. Christ will be to his people what their faith needs. Christ had his sword drawn, which encouraged Joshua to carry on the war with vigour. Christ's sword drawn in his hand, denotes how ready he is for the defence and salvation of his people. His sword turns every way. Joshua will know whether he is a friend or a foe. The cause between the Israelites and Canaanites, between Christ and Beelzebub, will not admit of any man's refusing to take one part or the other, as he may do in worldly contests. Joshua's inquiry shows an earnest desire to know the will of Christ, and a cheerful readiness and resolution to do it. All true Christians must fight under Christ's banner, and they will conquer by his presence and assistance.

 

and from... Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

14. the host of the Lord--either the Israelitish people ( Exodus 7:4 , 12:41 , Isaiah 55:4 ), or the angels ( Psalms 148:2 ), or both included, and the Captain of it was the angel of the covenant, whose visible manifestations were varied according to the occasion. His attitude of equipment betokened his approval of, and interest in, the war of invasion. 
Joshua fell on his face . . ., and did worship--The adoption by Joshua of this absolute form of prostration demonstrates the sentiments of profound reverence with which the language and majestic bearing of the stranger inspired him. The real character of this personage was disclosed by His accepting the homage of worship (compare Acts 10:25 Acts 10:26 , Revelation 19:10 ), and still further in the command, "Loose thy shoe from off thy foot" ( Exodus 3:5 ).

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TrevorL

Greetings Debbym,

 

14 hours ago, debbym said:

this being repeated the words that God spoke to Moses. Take the shoes off your feet...

The Mount of Transfiguration is stated to be holy when Jesus appeared in glory. Also a careful examination of the following shows that there is one God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. God the Father is the excellent glory because the glory that Jesus possesses is derived from His Father, and even when Jesus appears in glory, God the Father is called the excellent glory.

2 Peter 1:16-18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

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The Wanderer
16 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I should imagine that you would also claim the following is God, even though it is not clearly stated. Joshua sees an armed man, and he then reveals himself as the captain of Yahweh’s host. He does not claim to be Yahweh Himself.

Once again, an adhominem response is noted where I am told what I "must" believe when there is no way to know unless you ask me. You have no idea what my take is on that or any other text, you dont even know me nor have we ever met, and yet you presume to know what I "must" be thinking??  This makes it impossible to carry on any profitable discussion. This KIND of response is seen all over this forum wherever anti-trinitarians decide to pop up. There is no need and nothing Biblical about classifying and characterizing people who believe different than you like this. It proves nothing about God and Who He is, which is the whole point of the trinity doctrine. One does not even need to call it the trinity doctrine if they dont like the word. It is the doctrine of God. 

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whbae

I read a book written by a member of Philadelphia Church of Christ. A statement suggests that Trinity is originated from paganism.

There was a book many years ago written by an English professor in Japan titled "Trinity of English", this book was a book for foreigners to study English.  He might have borrowed "trinity" from christian religion, I do not know, but he explained the trinity as follows;

All language consist of 3 entity and must be learned by everyone. 1, Grammar, 2, Composition, and 3, Translation.  A foreigner try to learn the English can understand these "trinity" but for the English speaking natives may not understand.

This principal may apply to God head "trinity".

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TrevorL

Greetings again The Wanderer,

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

There is a reason that Moses took off his shoes during the burning bush incident. What was that reason? God Himself said that the place where Moses was standing was "holy ground."  The reason Moses took his shoes off was because he was standing on "holy ground."  But why was it "holy ground?" No place on earth is "holy" unless God Himself is there.

I was simply basing my comment on what you stated in your earlier Post above.

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Once again, an adhominem response is noted where I am told what I "must" believe when there is no way to know unless you ask me. You have no idea what my take is on that or any other text, you dont even know me nor have we ever met, and yet you presume to know what I "must" be thinking??  This makes it impossible to carry on any profitable discussion.

I did not say you must believe this, and possibly you had not considered the Joshua incident when you stated this. I was basing my comment on your statement that God Himself was there. The Mount of Transfiguration was holy when the Son of God was there in his glory. This does not prove the Trinity. Yes, I agree, we do not seem to be able to discuss these things.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

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The Wanderer
2 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I did not say you must believe this,

21 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I should imagine that you would also claim the following is God, even though it is not clearly stated. Joshua sees an armed man, and he then reveals himself as the captain of Yahweh’s host. He does not claim to be Yahweh Himself.

  Trevor, you wrote this yourself.

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, whbae said:

All language consist of 3 entity and must be learned by everyone. 1, Grammar, 2, Composition, and 3, Translation.  A foreigner try to learn the English can understand these "trinity" but for the English speaking natives may not understand.

interesting thoughts, but there are things like context and author's intentions as well as a host of other considerations.

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TrevorL

Greetings again The Wanderer,

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I should imagine that you would also claim the following is God, even though it is not clearly stated. Joshua sees an armed man, and he then reveals himself as the captain of Yahweh’s host. He does not claim to be Yahweh Himself.

  Trevor, you wrote this yourself.

It seems that Australian English or logic is different from Canadian English or logic. Possibly the problem is this end as we are descended from convicts and I have one of these Australian royalty in my ancestry. I noticed that you did not really comment on Joshua or the transfiguration, but I will accept this breakdown of Biblical discussion, and a reversion to who said this or that. I have stated my conviction based upon the Scriptures that Jesus is the Son of God, and when he appeared in glory the Mount was holy as Peter states.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

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The Wanderer
4 hours ago, TrevorL said:

It seems that Australian English or logic is different from Canadian English or logic. Possibly the problem is this end as we are descended from convicts and I have one of these Australian royalty in my ancestry. I noticed that you did not really comment on Joshua or the transfiguration, but I will accept this breakdown of Biblical discussion, and a reversion to who said this or that. I have stated my conviction based upon the Scriptures that Jesus is the Son of God, and when he appeared in glory the Mount was holy as Peter states.

No Thats not what you did. You stated that you know what I am thinking about something that you have no way, in fact to know. This has nothing to do with what coutries we are from. Around here, we call that something else There has not been a Èbiblical discussionÈ here yet, just because you whip us a bit with a Bible verse. You need to stop making the personal comments stating that you know what eople are thinking about a given verse when in fact you do not know that.

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The Wanderer
12 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

No Thats not what you did. You stated that you know what I am thinking about something that you have no way, in fact to know. This has nothing to do with what coutries we are from. Around here, we call that something else There has not been a Èbiblical discussionÈ here yet, just because you whip us a bit with a Bible verse. You need to stop making the personal comments stating that you know what eople are thinking about a given verse when in fact you do not know that.

Trevor, not answering any of the questions posed to you, jumping immediately to new texts to throw us off, and then reading our minds over all these miles to presume you know what I personally believe about all these new texts you keep hitting us with is Not called Bible study no matter how many Bible verses you rattle off. You are being asked to stop saying you know what I am thinking, just because of my religious viewpoint.

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