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Gregory Matthews

A False Report of Rape

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Gregory Matthews

As a final quote from the article that I cited, I give the following.  The bottom line is that no one who understands reputable science could today cite the 1985  McDowell study as being reputable.

All that the McDowell study documents are that 60% of women who allege rape also experienced many of the common attributes of a rape experience, such as stalking, harassment, emotional numbness, superficial injuries, and a desire to have the whole trauma out of their minds. None of these traits indicates falseness of the allegation, and they may even substantiate it. Astoundingly, I found Doctors of Psychology citing the shabby, thoroughly-disgraceful McDowell article (again, not one of them who responded to my inquiries actually had a copy of it!), including trainers on forensic examinations.  In short, when “women are lying about rape” skeptics uplift the 1985 McDowell article as their key evidence, they are in fact supporting the notion that an allegation of rape that matches any of these criteria, regardless of whether they might actually be true, should be subjectively deemed “false.” There is a huge difference between merely passing around a 25-year-old digest article’s dramatic conclusions about false reports, and actually investigating the abominable methodology used to reach that conclusion (especially a digest article so obscure that even the people promoting it don’t have a copy). One news article about the problem of sexual assault of women in the Air Force specifically referenced the McDowell Checklist, noting, “Considering the seeming irrelevance and bias of the questions, it is not surprising that the McDowell checklist turns up a 60 percent incidence of "false" rape reports, compared to a national average of about eight percent (according to FBI numbers).”4   McDowell himself has subsequently cautioned against using his own checklist as a method of discounting women’s claims, so even he no longer supports the conclusion that skeptics pin to him. One forensic training manual for law enforcement which cites McDowell and (colleague) Hibler’s 1987 text on rape investigation clarifies,


 As they [McDowell and Hibler] caution, however, none of these characteristics is significant by itself and may not even indicate a false allegation when they appear                                                 3 Of added interest may be McDowell’s other studies, as well. For example, he also authored an article claiming that many murders are actually “Munchausen’s syndrome” suicides disguised to appear as homicides. The article focuses on one case study as grounds for “the need for a reexamination of the dynamics of factitious allegations of criminal victimization” and “the issue of false claims of criminal victimization.”  4 http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking2/RapeNation.html
Rape and False Reports, by Matt Atkinson: www.ocadvsa.org 5
in combination. Rather, when many of the indicators appear in a particular case this should simply be used as a caution to the investigator that the allegation could potentially be distorted or false.5 (emphasis mine)
 What does modern scholarship from other forensic experts have to say about the matter? The same texts that cite McDowell (16 years subsequent to his study) go on to deconstruct nearly every rape myth his original checklist promoted. In their Training Manual for Law Enforcement, the National Center for Women and Policing offers these insights:
 [M]any victims will give inconsistent or untrue information as part of their statement, but this should not be confused with a false allegation. For example, victims might give inconsistent or untrue information out of trauma or disorganization, discomfort relaying sexual details, fear of being doubted or blamed, or out of an attempt to make the assault sound more like the stereotypic "real rape" with which we are all familiar… First, it is critically important that officers realize that these inconsistencies or untruths are understandable and should not be confused with a "false" allegation… Given the many reasons for doing so, it is understandable and perhaps even inevitable that victims will often make inconsistent or untrue statements about their assault. However, many investigators and others have mistakenly concluded on this basis that the entire allegation is false… The characterization of these cases as "false allegations" is not only incorrect but also troubling. In the first instance, the victim omitted details of certain sexual acts out of shame. In the second, she omitted details of her own drug use in order to bolster her perceived credibility, and in the third she failed to provide the identity of her assailant out of fear for her life. These case examples are not really false allegations. These are cases in which the victim omitted or distorted information about the assault, but they do not negate the reality that the assault happened.6

 

 

 

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CoAspen

Thanks GM, your research shows that more often than not people really do not want the truth. We are living in that age, more so.

 

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The Wanderer
2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Notice that according to McDowell (You should read the entire article.)  if a woman  who has alleged rape actually becomes pregnant, that is evidence that she was falsely alleging rape.  Astounding!

 

that is definitely wrong for anyone to believe that as "evidence"

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

[M]any victims will give inconsistent or untrue information as part of their statement, but this should not be confused with a false allegation. For example, victims might give inconsistent or untrue information out of trauma or disorganization, discomfort relaying sexual details, fear of being doubted or blamed, or out of an attempt to make the assault sound more like the stereotypic "real rape" with which we are all familiar… First, it is critically important that officers realize that these inconsistencies or untruths are understandable and should not be confused with a "false" allegation…

Defintely agree on that and why would anyone need a "scientific study" to prove this? Its common sense. Women (and men) should be given a voice in whats happened to them.  And why would we ever want to promote "justice" that acts outside the law, just because this is true? There is a word for that kind of justice. It does happen, and the numbers or percentages one wants to dredge up on how often this happens are not relevant. If it happens once; thats too much. Its the same as rapes or other related assaults. Once is too much.  But I wouldnt want to be caught making excuses for those who actually carry out justice simply on the basis of alllegations that are not yet proven. It doesnt matter what percentage you care to claim Making an allegation does not inherently prove it

[NOTE:  I seldom inject comments into a post that someone else had made.  But, I need to make it clear:  The quote above came from an article to which I had posted a link.  I did not write what was posted above--GM.]

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debbym

years ago i researched this topic and it was stated that only 10% of rapes are even reported.

and only 10 percent of those reported have enough evidence to go to court.

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B/W Photodude
20 hours ago, Aubrey said:

...well, you've worked your magic and shut me up from the conversation. enjoy the forum for the next few months, 'til I work up the courage to join in again and hope that the threads I participate in won't be hijacked by those who are afraid of women. 

Sorry you do not like the way this thread went. However, I have noticed in the past that you did not like anything that took issue with the feminist movement. However, more than just women have ideas in this world as much as the feminists would like most men to just die. In fact, one feminist put forth the idea that the world's population of men should be reduced to no more than 10% of the population! You really should study this movement more and keep in mind that many women want nothing to do with it and they likewise also get trashed by these feminists. Sadly, IMHO, this very movement's influence has penetrated our church and especially the NAD in it's ordination policies. I also note that when any of the liberal SDA websites puts up a piece regarding this issues, another wave of comments from the readers often with severe criticism of the church leadership erupts.

Perhaps, if you can tolerate it, you should study this movement more and I put these links up for you to consider. Tell me if you see anything uplifting in the descriptions of the behaviors of those in the feminist movement. Sorry the whole issue disturbs you.

https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-1/
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-3/
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-brief-history-of-the-feminist-revolution-part-2/

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B/W Photodude
11 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

In a previous post Photodude mentioned a number of studies that he felt supported his view on the false reports of rape.  They interested me and I decided to investigate.  The more I searched the Internet, the more concerned I became.  As a major issue:  It became apparent that most of the websites simply quoted each other and did not cite an original source.  This troubled me.  I wished that Photodude had cited an original source.  Further, I could not find any information as to the alleged source article for the alleged 1985 U.S. Air force study.

While one study may have been inaccurate to some, the article posted included many other studies, statistics, and individual cases which took up the issue of false allegations regarding rape or sexual assault. The intent of the article was not to say that most claims were false, but to dispute the 2-10% number that gets thrown around as truth. In the following link to that article was one put out by the Loyola Law School at Loyola Marymount University which directly took on this 2-10% myth. While the Air Force study is claimed to be copied from website to website, so also does the 2-10% get thrown around by everyone. 

Personally, I think this whole issue is much too complex to be settled in this forum.

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B/W Photodude
18 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

This might be true, but can we use this KIND of fact to minimize or trivialize what many women actually do have to suffer through? IMHO They must be given voice; and the justice should not be "extra-judicial" since some here do not like the phrase 'due process."

I believe the anecdotal reports I was referring to were for men who were caught up in these allegations. But of course, male suffering isn't as worth as much as female suffering! Reminds me of how every time something happens in the news, they give the female "body count" like the men didn't even exist. I hear a traffic accident reporrt on the news and the newscaster will say, "Five people were killed in the accident including one woman!" Why was that even important? I recall one recent statistic that one in four homeless people are women. Wait a minute! Who are the other three?

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B/W Photodude

As these false allegations continue, real victims may end up not even being believed.

It comes as London Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe suggested the force may stop “automatically” believing alleged rape victims after a series of high-profile mistakes in its handling of cases. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-falsely-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-actress-feels-like-he-has-undergone-mental-torture-a6867366.html

Can you imagine that? This man was just walking past someone in a busy tube station and gets accused and his life turned into hell for a year with a criminal trial.
 

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rudywoofs (Pam)
2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I believe the anecdotal reports I was referring to were for men who were caught up in these allegations. But of course, male suffering isn't as worth as much as female suffering! Reminds me of how every time something happens in the news, they give the female "body count" like the men didn't even exist. I hear a traffic accident reporrt on the news and the newscaster will say, "Five people were killed in the accident including one woman!" Why was that even important? I recall one recent statistic that one in four homeless people are women. Wait a minute! Who are the other three?

I've always wondered about this sort of thing too.... it's as if only one part of the population is important enough to be mentioned.

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I call these kinds of know it all web sites Turkey Shoots. Its all about shooting the turkey. How can anyone go to same and feel happy and well-adjusted? If I HAD to learn from such one-cause turkey shoots; how to be a real man; Id go nuts. There is plenty of advice in the Bible for that. I would feel as though I was guilty of a crime for posting such drivel. 

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

But of course, male suffering isn't as worth as much as female suffering! Reminds me of how every time something happens in the news, they give the female "body count" like the men didn't even exist.

I am sorry, but its stuff like this that ruins your case. Its even worse than "anecdotal."

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B/W Photodude
1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I call these kinds of know it all web sites Turkey Shoots. ...
If I HAD to learn from such one-cause turkey shoots; how to be a real man; ...

I don't think you really used the phrase ""turkey shoot" correctly. 

There was no call for you to "learn how to be a man" from the site either. It is simply a site that discusses the rights of men or how the rights of men are being violated. However, most people seem to think men have all the rights or have no rights to have rights. Many feminists go ballistic when the issue of men's right are raised. Strangely enough, over in Europe, at least one country is in the process of setting up a governmental agency just to address the rights of men and boys. And in this country, oddly enough, those who most seem to write books on the issues of the rights of men and boys are women! They are tired of seeing how their husbands, brothers, fathers, and sons are being treated and are interested in their futures. 

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B/W Photodude
2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I am sorry, but its stuff like this that ruins your case. Its even worse than "anecdotal."

Anecdotal examples are usually part of any argument. Doesn't matter what the topic is, they provide examples of the abstract thought being presented. As far as what I post being "drivel", even those those things of others which I don't agree with, I don't call them derogatory names but deal more with the material being presented. But some here just like to trash others without giving any real opposing argument. 

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CoAspen
Quote

 But some here just like to trash others without giving any real opposing argument. 

The opposing arguments to the 'trashing' of women rights, equality in all aspects of life have been very 'real'!

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The Wanderer
10 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

As far as what I post being "drivel", even those those things of others which I don't agree with, I don't call them derogatory names but deal more with the material being presented. But some here just like to trash others without giving any real opposing argument. 

IF you wre to check; I very rarely use such a term with anyone; infact this is likely the first. But thats exactly how I feel about those web sites, not about you :)

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B/W Photodude

While some have disparaged men's rights groups here at Adventistan, reality is men are being persecuted and injured and/or killed over false allegations. Perhaps movements like the women's rights movement made it to some parts of the world where they were not able to assimilate it into their culture in a safe way (as if it has been done anywhere safely). You will notice in the link below what is happening to men in India when a false allegation of rape is made:

https://medium.com/@jimpreston_36730/more-men-will-be-burned-alive-in-india-from-false-accusations-metoo-9d0773b57159

Governmental practices have even made it financially lucrative from the start by accusing some man of a sex crime. Even criminals have found ways to turn false allegations into a financial windfall:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/5-arrests-in-4-days-false-rape-cases-surge-in-haryana/story-dGIqfNqTFbA1YyFwjAe35K.html

Many men think they are above being a victim of such an accusation. However, many have foun d they were wrong when the full weight of government and media falls on their heads.

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Outta Here

Curious. B/W Photodude (Prophet of Doom), if you were a woman, and you were raped--would you even bother to report it? 

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

While some have disparaged men's rights groups here at Adventistan, reality is men are being persecuted and injured and/or killed over false allegations.

If this were true, and if this were said in such a way as to not impede women from coming forward, and if it was said in such a way that women were not put down or degraded, then, and only then, can it even be half true.  few men here and there have gotten the *** end of the stick; but really?? What are you saying here. What does what you say really mean. I doubt you know or you wouldnt be saying it (you may continue now, scouring the internet for your addictive obscurities and  vantage links.

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B/W Photodude
5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Curious. B/W Photodude (Prophet of Doom), if you were a woman, and you were raped--would you even bother to report it? 

Why do you need to ask "if I was a woman" to consider the question? Like men don't get raped? Let me fix those preconceived ideas of yours regarding who is getting raped and who is perpetrating rape.

Men forced to have sex with women aren’t being properly recognised by the law – legal expert

These crimes, also known as “forced-to-penetrate” or “compelled penetration” cases, occur when a man is forced to penetrate, with his penis, a woman’s vagina, anus, or mouth. It is not recognised as rape under the law. In fact, the law on rape is defined in such a way that only men are recognised as principal offenders. Though there have been a handful of women convicted of rape, they have been convicted as accomplices, not principals.

https://theconversation.com/men-forced-to-have-sex-with-women-arent-being-properly-recognised-by-the-law-legal-expert-81638

Women Need To Be Educated About Sexual Consent, Right Now They Aren’t

How can women aggressively rape men? It’s very simple: men do not fight back because they will be the party arrested, as specified under the Violence Against Women Act, which has a mandatory arrest clause that almost always means the man will be arrested, no matter who the primary aggressor happened to be. A man who physically, violently resists unwanted sexual behaviors or any other physical attack from a woman will be arrested, and most men know that

https://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/06/women-need-to-be-educated-about-sexual-consent-right-now-they-arent/

Sexual Victimization by Women Is More Common Than Previously Known

Take a moment and picture an image of a rapist. Without a doubt, you are thinking about a man. Given our pervasive cultural understanding that perpetrators of sexual violence are nearly always men, this makes sense. But this assumption belies the reality, revealed in our study of large-scale federal agency surveys, that women are also often perpetrators of sexual victimization.

Male-perpetrated sexual victimization finally came to public attention after centuries of denial and indifference, thanks to women’s rights advocates and the anti-rape movement. Attention to sexual victimization perpetrated by women should be understood as a necessary next step in continuing and expanding upon this important legacy.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

@theWanderer, ... call Scientific American an obscure internet source!   ;)

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Gregory Matthews

The quote below  is a partial truth:

*  The basic, Federal statuatory definition of rape goes back to a 1927 Federal law, which focused on women as victims.

*  The Federal definition of rape was changed in January of 2012.  With that change, under Federal law males could be considered victims of rape.  NOTE:  OTher changes were also made in the law.

*  Most charges of rape take place under the provisions of a State law.  At the time of the Federal change in 2012 the majority of States in the U.S. had enacted changes in their laws that included allowing males to be considered victims of rape.

*  The individual States have been enacting changes to their laws since the Federal change in 2012.  As an example, in one such state a change was made that went into effect in January of 2017.

* MY understanding is that it is only a very small few of the U.S. states that would not at this time allow men to be considered victims of rape.  But, I think that there may be several such States?

*  It should be noted that the changes made have often affected women.  E.G.  As an example, in one of the U.S. States, a woman could not be a victim of rape unless she was "chaste."

*  IN short, in many situations, males can be considered to be victims of rape, and women can be convicted of such actions.

. . .

, the law on rape is defined in such a way that only men are recognised as principal offenders. Though there have been a handful of women convicted of rape, they have been convicted as accomplices, not principals.

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Gregory Matthews

By the way:  The  Scientific American article that Photodude cited  is an article worth reading by all.  It gives some good insights and in addition, provides context for its comments.

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B/W Photodude
23 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The quote below  is a partial truth:

*  The basic, Federal statuatory definition of rape goes back to a 1927 Federal law, which focused on women as victims.

*  The Federal definition of rape was changed in January of 2012.  With that change, under Federal law males could be considered victims of rape.  NOTE:  OTher changes were also made in the law.

The article the quote came from was written by a British citizen who is connected with a British university. No doubt the definitions were from UK law. I follow articles such as this from all over the world, primarily USA, Europe, and Australia. There seems to be subtle differences in the ways the rights of men are being violated by those kowtowing to the feminist movement.

BTW, feminism  does not equal women. Many women want no part of this movement. The wrath of the feminists will also descend on the head of any woman expressing the desire not to be part of the movement.

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