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CoAspen

An Opinion

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House Speaker Paul Ryan told a radio station Thursday morningthat “we need to take a breath and collect the facts” before starting a conversation about “taking away law-abiding citizen’s rights.” Remember this call for restraint the next time an undocumented immigrant is involved in a crime and Republicans use it to justify their extreme position on immigration.

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Because while many researchers have concluded that undocumented immigrants do not commit a disproportionate number of crimes in the U.S., researchers do believe that there are specific gun laws that, if implemented, could reduce the number of mass shootings, and the lower the body count when fatal shootings do tragically happen.

 

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CoAspen

Weaker Laws

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The NRA release says that had the Obama rule been allowed to move ahead it "would have resulted in 75,000 Social Security recipients who use a representative payee losing their Second Amendment rights without due process." But in fact, the rule applied to Social Security recipients who weren't able to manage their affairs because of "marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease."

 

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CoAspen

Politics along with the NRA are the true perpetrators of these types of mass killings. It will happen again and again with much 'hand washing' about the terribleness of it all but the rhetoric will be the same. Arm the teachers, arm  the teachers and the outcome would have been better!! Such trivial and other mind numbing nonsense will be repeated over and over by politcians and the NRA, along with a substantial part of the public. Of course it isn't their family  being slaughtered!! 

Will America ever wake up and stop shaking in their boots with fear over some theoretical threat saying they need more and more and more guns to protect themselves and families. We have been brainwashed into believing such. Less gun control is the desire of the NRA and the many who instill fear. We have no leadership on this issue. There is no rational or logical thinking or conversation on the issue. 

It will go on and repeat itself over and over and over. Guns are a God!!

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CoAspen

Your Guns are safe with Me?

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"The fact that the president didn't talk about rifles today ... that was good," said Chris Waltz, president and CEO of AR-15 Gun Owners of America, a Warner Robbins, Ga.-based company that sells semi-automatic rifles and claims a community of enthusiasts numbering more than 500,000. "He's been, so far, the most outspoken president on gun issues, as far as supporting the Second Amendment."

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"I’m confident that the president meant what he said: that he’s not going to pursue a potential solution that’s going to infringe on our constitutional rights," said David Bozell, president of the conservative group For America. "Gun owners like myself, we want the ability to defend our families against bad guys." 

 
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"We’re always concerned after a tragedy that the response will be either poor, misguided or just emotional," said Dudley Brown, president of the National Association for Gun Rights.

 

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bonnie
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Will America ever wake up and stop shaking in their boots with fear over some theoretical threat saying they need more and more and more guns to protect themselves and families. We have been brainwashed into believing such. Less gun control is the desire of the NRA and the many who instill fear. We have no leadership on this issue. There is no rational or logical thinking or conversation on the issue. .. 

It will go on and repeat itself over and over and over. Guns are a God!!

No guns are not a God. We have more guns laws than ever.Yet it is the same hysterical cry over and over,More Laws,that will fix this problem. There has to be more driving this behavior in the US than gun availability.  Guns were readily available during the time we were raising our boys. You could order them thru the Sears and other catalogs. Walk into your local hardware store and buy what you wanted no questions asked. Many of the high school boys drove pickups and brought their guns to school and kept them in the cab so they could go hunting with their friends after school. Today that would bring the swat teams and various law enforcement,those doing so would face consequences.

Why wasn't that a problem. Students have always been bullied, we had those that were when I was in high school. Not right and should be stopped,however all their laws concerning that and we have more and worse types of bullying today. Why?

Those bullied did not commit suicide or shoot up the school with many guns available. I know there were some that were bullied unmercifully,today we would have a mass shooting or suicide.

We had a couple of guns when our boys were teens. Kept in the corner of the dining room with the shells in the china cabinet. While four boys can and did get into all sorts of mischief it would never have occurred to them to shoot their neighbors or someone they had a dispute with.

I was born in Northern  MN, guns were a staple in just about every household. Fully visible and not locked away. Ammunition always readily available. 

I think statistically gun ownership has gone down, gun laws more restrictive, while mass shootings have gone up. Why is that? 

Maybe those crying for the government to do more need to take a serious look at parenting 101 from the time their children are very young. Social media, television time instead of parental time and the many other issues that consume parents and children today.

 

 

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Geoarrge

The most likely cause of these killings is adverse reactions to psychotropic drugs. Antidepressants have helped a lot of people, but they shouldn't be used without close supervision.  They can sometimes leave people thinking some frightening thoughts that seem at the time to be perfectly reasonable. Our society is addicted to the public school system as a glorified day care service; if kids are having trouble, we'd rather give them some pills and put them back on the conveyor belt. 

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CoAspen

Am I my brothers keeper? Remember that story? We don't want to get involved? We  enjoy finding something or someone else to blame? 

Love one another as I have loved you. Perhaps a country that claims it is a Christian Nation would have less violence if it practised the words of Christ?

But we seem to be more concerned 'letter of the law', correctness of beliefs, the mote in others eyes, etc, etc...instead of loving others unconditionally as Christ did. 

I don't know, would something that simple really work.....have we tried it...could we try it....:thinking:

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chilco

The problem isn't in the guns -- they can't do anything on their own.

The problem is in the people.

One thought I saw on facebook ---

"Help me understand the logic of this--
Watching two hours of violence in a movie has no influence on my behavior
But a 30 second super bowl ad is worth 3.8 million dollars because it will cause us to run out and buy the product." 

Or what about all those virtual reality violent computer games?  Could they possibly have an influence?
Couple that with broken families, and parents too busy or occupied to spend quality time with their kids
a lack of proper nurture, love and instruction
And yes, the increase of kids on drugs, yes, even prescribed drugs  -- and even all the junk food instead of good healthy family meals at regular times -- it all adds up ..........
in totally messing up some people's reality.

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Bravus

Guns are part of the problem but not the whole problem. The thing is, it's a complex, multi-part problem that will have a complex, multi-part solution. 

Which seems to be a challenge for us these days: we want simplistic solutions.

So we bark at each other from our different sides of an imaginary fence, ignoring the real complexity of the landscape.

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CoAspen

Truth not wanted!!

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Alex Jones, the controversial conspiracy theorist and Infowars host, suggested on his radio show that the Parkland shooting was a so-called “false flag,” or staged, operation. Jones has pushed similar views about the Sandy Hook massacre, including the idea that the people shown in news reports from the scene were actors.

Conspiracies are much better!!

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B/W Photodude

A potential danger in the making? Does the FBI know about him? If so, would they even know to do something?!

27973637_10155325569634849_6523028422384274598_n.jpg

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bonnie

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/02/cruz_told_everybody_im_a_killer.html

Had he told everyone that he was a evangelical christian interested in sharing the gospel with classmates then what? Would that have been stopped?

 

According to the best British newspaper in America, the Daily Mail, Nikolas Cruz abused his ex and sold knives out of a lunchbox.  He was disciplined by the school 25 times and finally expelled.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5413309/Nikolas-Cruz-abused-ex-sold-knives-lunch-box.html

 


 

What would have happened had Cruz walked into that school with a confederate flag around his shoulders? Would he have been allowed to go about murdering his classmates?

Kneeling in the hallway with bible in hand saying the Lord's Prayer out loud?

Imagine Cruz selling bibles out of a lunch bo in the hallways.

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bonnie

Interesting response but what does lying and name calling have to do with what was said? Can you sell knives from your lunch box in school without consequences?How long would a student get by with selling the confederate flag out of his lunch box in school?? There was the opportunity for arrest which would have made him unable to purchae the gun. Several times his name should have been entered into the system. No one was called names or accused of lying.

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bonnie

When a tragedy happens the first response is a almost hysterical "we need more laws".If the many laws on the books already are not strictly enforced adding more is a feel good measure that says"now we have done something".For the law abing and those that fear consequences of violating the law,it is a good thing.The type of individual dreaming about killing as many as possible really isnt going to be to impressed with more laws.Gun availbility is solved thru the black market.These shootings are not spontaneous as when someone loses it and kills a spouse .Most people committing a crime of any kind want to get away with it. Nutjobs as this want only to get away with it long enough to be in the position to cowardly slaughter unsuspecting innocent people.The fame and noterity ,dead or alive is what they want. Concern over buying a illegal weapon isnt a very high priority.Drinking and driving is illegal with laws governing that.

Doesnt do a thing for the over 4000 dead this year by those that disregard the law.Many of them underage .Against the law and they simply go around it.Laws are needed and hopefully provide consequences severe enough tha it acts as a deterrent. Consequences are not something someone like Cruz fears.Rather he looks foward to being known as a "better school shooter"

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bonnie

When a tragedy happens the first response is a almost hysterical "we need more laws".If the many laws on the books already are not strictly enforced adding more is a feel good measure that says"now we have done something".For the law abing and those that fear consequences of violating the law,it is a good thing.The type of individual dreaming about killing as many as possible really isnt going to be to impressed with more laws.Gun availbility is solved thru the black market.These shootings are not spontaneous as when someone loses it and kills a spouse .Most people committing a crime of any kind want to get away with it. Nutjobs as this want only to get away with it long enough to be in the position to cowardly slaughter unsuspecting innocent people.The fame and noterity ,dead or alive is what they want. Concern over buying a illegal weapon isnt a very high priority.Drinking and driving is illegal with laws governing that.

Doesnt do a thing for the over 4000 dead this year by those that disregard the law.Many of them underage .Against the law and they simply go around it.Laws are needed and hopefully provide consequences severe enough tha it acts as a deterrent. Consequences are not something someone like Cruz fears.Rather he looks foward to being known as a "better school shooter. There was far more gun availibility in the past.When many of us were in high school the senior high students would have their guns in a rack in their pickups for hunting after school.You could walk into a hardware store and buy any weapon they carried.You could order fro catalogs like Sears no problem no restrictions.That has slowly changed to far more restrictions and far less avaibility.Something has gone horribly wrong and it didnt suddenly start with availibility

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bonnie

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/02/22/armed-deputy-at-florida-school-resigns-after-failing-to-engage-shooter/23368883/

 

Armed deputy at Florida school resigns after failing to engage shooter

 

 
 
 
BERNIE WOODALL
Feb 22nd 2018 6:02PM

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla., Feb 22 (Reuters) - The armed sheriff's deputy assigned to the Florida high school where 17 people were shot and killed has resigned rather than face suspension after an internal investigation showed he failed to enter the school to confront the gunman during the attack, the county sheriff said on Thursday.

Deputy Scott Peterson, who was on duty and in uniform as the resource officer posted at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, was the only law enforcement officer present at the campus during the six-minute rampage last Wednesday, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said.

Peterson's actions were caught on video during the massacre, which ranks as the second-deadliest shooting ever at a U.S. public school, carried out by a lone gunman wielding a semiautomatic AR-15-style assault rifle.

S
Shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida
SEE GALLERY

Israel said he would not release the video at this time and may never do so, “depending on the prosecution and criminal case” against Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old former student who is charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder in the assault.

 

Israel told reporters the shooting lasted six minutes, and that Peterson arrived at the freshman building about 90 seconds after the first shots were fired, then lingered outside for at least four minutes.

Asked what the deputy should have done, Israel replied, "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."

The sheriff said he had decided on the basis of his findings to suspend Peterson, but the deputy resigned first. Israel said two other deputies were placed on restrictive administrative assignment, stemming from their response to numerous calls for service and reports received by the sheriff's department pertaining to Cruz during the past several years.

 

 
 

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Geoarrge

One tedious falsehood that keeps cropping up is reporters labeling the AR-15 as an 'assault rifle'. 

An assault rifle has a specific military definition. The major detail is that it must be select-fire, capable of being switched between semi-auto and full-auto fire modes.  An AR-15 has no full automatic fire mode. If it did, it would fall into a very heavily restricted category. The assault rifle label wrongly implies major infractions of federal law on the part of the dealer who sold the rifle.

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Gregory Matthews

One aspect of the AR-15 is that it can be easily modified to perform full automatic fire.   When that is done, it is generally illegal under Federal law.  In order to be legally done, the one who does such must be both registered and licensed to do such and comply with registration requirements for the modified rifle, as well as comply with Federal requirements as to the sale of that modified rifle.

As to what constitutes an assault rifle, Wikipedia says:

The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."

[16] In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles, despite frequently being called such.

For example:

  • Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 200 yards.[17]
  • Select-fire rifles such as the FN FAL battle rifle are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
  • Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
  • Semi-automatic-only rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.

 

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B/W Photodude

It is just too easy to start blaming the guns for the school shootings. And it is even a no brainer, as in, let's not really think this thing thru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Lyhic47nQ

I have written many things here regarding the ways boys are being raised these days and even treated, and usually it is a man here, on Adventistan, that tries to trash the argument. Boys are being mistreated in the way they are raised at home, in schools, in churches (yes, the SDA church). But let's just continue to blame it on the guns and then we don't have to really look at the problems.

It used to be that kids in high schools in many places were even encouraged to bring guns to school for after school shooting education. Now, little boys get suspended for chewing their pop tart into the shape of a gun!

And no one stops to think, why are these young boys coming back to their schools and shooting up people they know and often grew up with? There are far more efficient ways to kill people if that is your intent.

So, let's ban AR-15s and then we can feel good for awhile until the next mass murder happens.

 

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bonnie
29 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

It is just too easy to start blaming the guns for the school shootings. And it is even a no brainer, as in, let's not really think this thing thru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Lyhic47nQ

I have written many things here regarding the ways boys are b being raised these days and even treated, and usually it is a man here, on Adventistan, that tries to trash the argument. Boys are being mistreated in the way they are raised at home, in schools, in churches (yes, the SDA church). But let's just continue to blame it on the guns and then we don't have to really look at the problems.

It used to be that kids in high schools in many places were even encouraged to bring guns to school for after school shooting education. Now, little boys get suspended for chewing their pop tart into the shape of a gun!

And no one stops to think, why are these young boys coming back to their schools and shooting up people they know and often grew up with? There are far more efficient ways to kill people if that is your intent.

So, let's ban AR-15s and then we can feel good for awhile until the next mass murder happens.

 

We raised four boys along with a couple of nephews. I agree with you on how boys are being raised. I would not want to raise boys today. When it comes right down to it, I would not want to be raising children in general. But I am not sure this is simply a matter of how boys are raised. This hysterical demand for more and more laws because the ones on the books that could have prevented the death of these 17 students was ignored numerous times is nothing but feel good,"we have to do something" so let's pass another law.

It starts at home from very young. There are those few that truly have a mental illness that cannot be helped. Somehow many seem to think trying to put a bandaid on the end result is going to fix the problem. School officials know what to do when a very young child "chews his pop tart into the shape of a gun"  but seem to be clueless about a student selling knives out of a lunch box in school.

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