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Gail

Has Babylon fallen, has fallen, yet?

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Gail

In your understanding, has Babylon fallen yet?

I ‘m referring to Revelation 18:2

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Gustave
On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:25 AM, Gail said:

In your understanding, has Babylon fallen yet?

I ‘m referring to Revelation 18:2

Possibly 

"And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified".

What "Great City" was it that the Lord was crucified? 

 

 

 

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stinsonmarri
8 hours ago, Gustave said:

Possibly 

"And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified".

What "Great City" was it that the Lord was crucified? 

 

 

 

I am so glad that you provided that Scripture, because it appears that most ignore this one also the second verse in the same Chapter.

 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Rev 11:2

Babylon is Jerusalem and today all of the word recognize it as "the great city." With Islamic countries all around and inside people come to worship this city and relic around the world more then any city. Even with the numerous of assaults, people still come. Here is another clue, what other city do you know of that killed THE ALMIGHTY'S prophets? Israel killed it own prophets and people first when they rebelled against THE MOST HIGH! Here is the final proof and it happen recently, USA moved their embassy to Jerusalem that is prophetic and stamp it. 

Finally "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Judaic is a false religion and not Biblical. Israel has always been the name of THE MOST HIGH people who have and will overcome their sins. Christianity is not of THE MOST HIGH, the apostle call themselves "THE WAY." Do the history on the word Christian and understand why they were call that pagan name as a joke! Islam was not started by Abraham oldest son, which is a lie. It was started my Mohammed a man who married a rich woman that claim he saw Gabriel. Islam started in the early 500 AD. Ishmael had been dead for centuries. So all of the above religions are in Jerusalem and they all started out with lies!

Now, it up to everyone to research as appears you have already done. It is so important that we prove all things and make sure of what is taught is true or a lie that has cover up the truth. Don't even believe me or anyone check the sources read because the Bible states and provide its own meaning. We do need to interpret it, we need understand it and must be base on Isa. 8:20.

Happy Sabbath and be bless!

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Gustave
 
 
This came from a website I found years ago - it was definitely interesting. 

 

Revelation 17,5: "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF  THE EARTH". 

Israel is classified as a harlot MANY times in Scripture: Isa 1,21, Ezek 16,23, Isaiah 57, Jeremiah 2-3 and Hosea 2 for starters. 

Isaiah 47 is a striking parallel passage, with 3 key elements repeated: She calls herself a queen, not a widow, and will see her destruction in one day.

Isaiah 47,7 You said, 'I will continue forever— the eternal queen! ' But you did not consider these things or reflect on what might happen. "Now then, listen, you wanton creature, lounging in your security and saying to yourself, 'I am, and there is none besides me. I will never be a widow or suffer the loss of children.' Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood. They will come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and all your potent spells.

Revelation 18,7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

 

The Pharisees of Jerusalem killed Stephen who was the first of "the martyrs of Jesus". Any other interpretation of who the woman is, if it does not include the Jewish religious leaders in the time of Jesus, including the Jewish religious leaders who killed the Old Testament prophets (Rev 18:24), is therefore incorrect. Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Rev 18,24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 

Stephen, the first Christian martyr, fingers the council at Jerusalem as the murderers of the prophets, and they were so angry they killed Stephen, too:

Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
 

Jesus speaks harsh words to the leaders of Jerusalem, saying they are worse than harlots, and also says that "Jeursalem kills the prophets":

Mat 21:31 "...Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luk 13:31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

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stinsonmarri
5 hours ago, Gustave said:
 
This came from a website I found years ago - it was definitely interesting. 

 

Revelation 17,5: "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF  THE EARTH". 

Israel is classified as a harlot MANY times in Scripture: Isa 1,21, Ezek 16,23, Isaiah 57, Jeremiah 2-3 and Hosea 2 for starters. 

Isaiah 47 is a striking parallel passage, with 3 key elements repeated: She calls herself a queen, not a widow, and will see her destruction in one day.

Isaiah 47,7 You said, 'I will continue forever— the eternal queen! ' But you did not consider these things or reflect on what might happen. "Now then, listen, you wanton creature, lounging in your security and saying to yourself, 'I am, and there is none besides me. I will never be a widow or suffer the loss of children.' Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood. They will come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and all your potent spells.

Revelation 18,7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

 

The Pharisees of Jerusalem killed Stephen who was the first of "the martyrs of Jesus". Any other interpretation of who the woman is, if it does not include the Jewish religious leaders in the time of Jesus, including the Jewish religious leaders who killed the Old Testament prophets (Rev 18:24), is therefore incorrect. Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Rev 18,24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 

Stephen, the first Christian martyr, fingers the council at Jerusalem as the murderers of the prophets, and they were so angry they killed Stephen, too:

Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
 

Jesus speaks harsh words to the leaders of Jerusalem, saying they are worse than harlots, and also says that "Jeursalem kills the prophets":

Mat 21:31 "...Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luk 13:31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Boy you made some very good points. However, you do know that the symbol of the women stands for cities and both a true and sinful church. Different from the city was Israel who was like a married woman unto THE MOST HIGH!

Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith YAHWEH.  For thy MAKER is thine HUSBAND; YAHWEH of hosts is HIS NAME; and thy REDEEMER THE HOLY ONE of Israel; ELOHIYM of the whole earth shall HE be called.  For YAHWEH hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in MIND, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy ELOHIYM. Isa 54:1, 5,

For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink. Hos 2:5

The papacy is that women and here is the Scripture to prove that:

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Rev 17:4  

I don't know if you know this but Rome owns a lot of Jerusalem and if you understood the crusades, Rome has always wanted to rule over Jerusalem. Why, she feel she is the son and the father  incarnated into a human body on earth and Mary is the holy ghost! She is the universal church here on earth that's where you get the word catholic from! Now that's the truth!

Blessings!

 

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Gustave

Stinsonmarri, you may not be aware. 

Rev 17, 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

God commanded that the priests' vestments be made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4-8, 15, 33, 39:1-8, 24, 29).

Exodus 25, 29 And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and bowls thereof, to cover withal: of pure gold shalt thou make them.
Dan 5:2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein.

Dan 5:3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.
Perhaps you were unaware of the following:

"And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls"
 
 
Compared with,
 
"And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen.


 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work." Exodus 28:4
 
 
"And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

 

They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.

And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses. And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.

 

And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses. And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled. And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.

 

And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings." Exodus 39:1

 

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Ron Amnsn

Stinsonmarri, do you have any Scripture that actually states that Jerusalem is Babylon?  In Revelation and elsewhere Jerusalem is referred to as Sodom and Egypt, but I haven't yet come across any verses that speak of Jerusalem as being Babylon.  In the Old Testament prophets Jerusalem is definitely not Babylon.

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Ron Amnsn

Gustave, as far as I know there were no pearls in the garments of the priests nor in the furnishings of the Sanctuary. 

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Gustave
30 minutes ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Gustave, as far as I know there were no pearls in the garments of the priests nor in the furnishings of the Sanctuary. 

Does it have to be found in the actual garments of the priests or in the furnishings of the Sanctuary? It was a common form of currency for the wealthy in Israel was it not? 

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Kevin H

When Babylon falls it will be when she makes all nations drink of her iniquities. But it is a PROCESS, it is not some sudden event.

We find in Revelation 12 a pure woman, God's church in both testaments. The dragon chased her INTO the WILDERNESS. In Revelation 18 John is asked if he wanted to see who Babylon the Great was. He then sees a woman coming FROM the WILDERNESS riding the beast; and John said that when he saw HER he was absolutely overwhelmed. He could not believe his eyes. Why would John be so flabbergasted when he saw HER?

I'll allow some comments for now and come back later.

 

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Gustave
1 hour ago, Kevin H said:

When Babylon falls it will be when she makes all nations drink of her iniquities. But it is a PROCESS, it is not some sudden event.

We find in Revelation 12 a pure woman, God's church in both testaments. The dragon chased her INTO the WILDERNESS. In Revelation 18 John is asked if he wanted to see who Babylon the Great was. He then sees a woman coming FROM the WILDERNESS riding the beast; and John said that when he saw HER he was absolutely overwhelmed. He could not believe his eyes. Why would John be so flabbergasted when he saw HER?

I'll allow some comments for now and come back later.

 

Revelation 12 speaks of Mary & the Church. 

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8thdaypriest
20 hours ago, Ron Amnsn said:

Stinsonmarri, do you have any Scripture that actually states that Jerusalem is Babylon?  In Revelation and elsewhere Jerusalem is referred to as Sodom and Egypt, but I haven't yet come across any verses that speak of Jerusalem as being Babylon.  In the Old Testament prophets Jerusalem is definitely not Babylon.

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

The "dead bodies" are those of the "two witnesses".

The "city" where Jesus was crucified was Jerusalem. 

It is the SAME "great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt". 

I do not believe that Jerusalem is CURRENTLY "Babylon".  I believe she will become Babylon, in the last days, when she capitulates to "the Beast" in order to buy continued life and security and prosperity.  

The "man of sin" - "the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped", will even sit in the Temple, calling himself God, and demanding worship (2Thess 2:3-4).  Sure sounds like King Nebuchadnezzar (of Babylon) and his golden image - to me.  

If the situation described comes about - not by force of being conquered - but rather by agreement or treaty, then Jerusalem will become the "whore" riding "the beast".  Jerusalem  will become the capital of the world government controlled by the "Little Horn".   At least until the "ten kings" attack her and burn her with fire, when Jesus returns and they realize that the one demanding worship was a phony.

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JoeMo

Just for the sake of discussion, I would like to propose another alternative for Babylon.

1. Rev.18:11-13 indicates that Babylon is a great city with massive wealth and huge merchant function.  Jerusalem in NOT a worldwide center of merchant activity.

 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves."

2.Rev. 18:17-19 indicates that sea merchants will lament the destruction of Babylon.  Jerusalem does not have a port - much less a major seaport.

“Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning,they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’ 19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
    where all who had ships on the sea
    became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

I would propose to you that these two prophecies indicate a much more major port than Jerusalem.  What about Mecca/Medina?  It is by far the largest port on the Red Sea and the center of non-petroleum merchant trade in the Middle East. 

3. Mecca is also by for the most visited place on earth because of the Islamic hajj. Could Rev. 13:3 be a hint to this?  Islam is projected to bypass Christianity as the world's largest religion by 2030 - by birth rate alone if nothing else.

"The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast."

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Gail

Interesting comments!

What particular signs would you look for to indicate to you that Babylon has fallen? 

To me, just the name Babylon, which signifies among other things, “confusion,” would say a lot.

Another nagging idea is that Jesus said that He told us the future in order that when a thing arrives we would recognise it. I find in this life that truth is often much stranger than fiction, which suggests perhaps a surprise.

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, Gail said:

Interesting comments!

What particular signs would you look for to indicate to you that Babylon has fallen? 

To me, just the name Babylon, which signifies among other things, “confusion,” would say a lot.

Another nagging idea is that Jesus said that He told us the future in order that when a thing arrives we would recognise it. I find in this life that truth is often much stranger than fiction, which suggests perhaps a surprise.

National and international religious legislation would fit the description, as I currently understand it. This is how I would put it: "It will be a BIG surprise, even though we are expecting it."

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TrevorL

Greetings Gail,

On 6/27/2018 at 3:25 AM, Gail said:

In your understanding, has Babylon fallen yet?

I ‘m referring to Revelation 18:2

My understanding of the sequence of events is that we are now in the period of the 6th Vial and during this period Jesus will return to the earth. I believe that Armageddon will occur during this period, when the nations are gathered together to fight in Israel and Jerusalem.

Revelation 16:12–16 (KJV): 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

I believe that the Battle of Armageddon is also depicted in Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45, Zechariah 14:1-3, and in each of these records Christ intervenes. In Revelation 16 we have the destruction of Babylon after the 6th Vial, in the 7th Vial. Thus it is in this 7th period, possibly some years after Armageddon that Babylon is destroyed, and some suggest even 30-40 years. This is the period of transition from the kingdoms of men to the fully established Kingdom of God upon the earth. I connect the Battle of Armageddon with Daniel 8 and this is a military conflict and will be in the Middle East, corresponding to the Eastern Roman Empire area. I connect the destruction of Babylon with Daniel 7, corresponding to Catholic Europe and the Papacy and is the Western Roman Empire area. Babylon is depicted as making war with the Lamb, and the Lamb overcomes them Revelation 17:1-6, 12-14.

Kind regards Trevor

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JoeMo
16 hours ago, Gail said:

What particular signs would you look for to indicate to you that Babylon has fallen? 

It will be while or after it falls.  Revelation says Babylon will be destroyed in one day.  I believe that to be a literal 24 hour period.  Unfortunately, it will also probably mean the devastation of Israel and the church just prior to the destruction of Babylon and the second Coming.

 

6 hours ago, TrevorL said:

My understanding of the sequence of events is that we are now in the period of the 6th Vial and during this period Jesus will return to the earth

While I do believe we are living in the time of the end; and unless we die untimely death we will see the Great tribulation and the second Coming,  I don't believe we are even in the seals yet; much less the 6th vial of the wrath of God.  When the earth experiences the wrath of God, it won't be subtle, questionable, localized events.  It will be literally earth-shattering.  The Bible says that nothing before or after will be as bad.  To me that means worse than the Flood, worse than the Crusades, worse than the Black Plague, worse than the Holocaust, worse than the nuclear attack on Japan.

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

While I do believe we are living in the time of the end;

The way I understand it, we are living in the time of the end, and not the end of time. The end of time will happen pretty fast, within a 1-3 day period. "The final movements will be rapid ones." (9 T, pg 11)

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TrevorL

Greetings JoeMo,

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

While I do believe we are living in the time of the end; and unless we die untimely death we will see the Great tribulation and the second Coming,  I don't believe we are even in the seals yet; much less the 6th vial of the wrath of God.

I believe that the Seals cover the period of the decline and overthrow of the Pagan Roman System AD 96-312, the Trumpets is from AD 312 to the French Revolution AD 1789, and the Vials from AD 1789 to the return of Christ depicted in the 6th Vial and the establishment of the Kingdom in the 7th Vial. This is called the continuous historical view, partly based on the same concept as Daniel 2. This has been held by many Biblical scholars over the centuries, and many have held the sequence above. I have a list of some of these scholars. I appreciate that SDA theology looks for the sudden destruction of the earth at the return of Christ, and thus cannot accept a gradual progression of events at the return of Christ, but SDAs have to ignore what most of the prophets say concerning these events, such as Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Daniel 11:40-45 (time of the end), Zechariah 14 and many other prophecies.

 

It will be interesting to observe how SDAs react as some of these events transpire. The focus of the world is becoming concerned with the Middle East, Israel and Jerusalem, and events are progressing towards the predetermined end as depicted by the prophets, the return of Jesus, the conversion of the Jews and the subjugation of the nations and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth, with Jesus reigning over the earth upon the throne of David in Jerusalem. All of these will be progressive, and SDAs will need to adjust in their view as the events unfold if they are not overcome by some of these.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

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stinsonmarri
On 7/1/2018 at 12:23 AM, Gustave said:

Stinsonmarri, you may not be aware. 

Rev 17, 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

God commanded that the priests' vestments be made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4-8, 15, 33, 39:1-8, 24, 29).

Exodus 25, 29 And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and bowls thereof, to cover withal: of pure gold shalt thou make them.
Dan 5:2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein.

Dan 5:3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.
Perhaps you were unaware of the following:

"And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls"
 
 
Compared with,
 
"And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen.


 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work." Exodus 28:4
 
 
"And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

 

They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.

And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses. And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.

 

And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses. And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled. And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.

 

And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings." Exodus 39:1

 

Gustave: I am fully aware that the Catholic church has symbolized a lot with the priestly service of the Bible. That is why she claim she is married to Jesus! However, the ring comes from original Babylon of Nimrod. That is pagan and deal with sexual implications related to the mother earth and the phallus! The Catholic church uses one golden cup that represents mass and to drink wine of false doctrines. In mass wine is taken from one golden cup for each congregation to drink from. The Supper has been changed to a continuous ceremony all through out the day  The priest of the Bible had "golden vessels," and none of the vessels were cups.

And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and a bowl (as cut out hollow): - charger, dish. thereof, to cover withal: of pure gold shalt thou make them. Ex 25:29 

The Bible did not say that Belshazzar drunk out of any cups it said vessels and we know from Ex.25:29 what they were! According to Strong "dishes" were a bowl (as cut out hollow): - charger, dish. Bowls were a sacrificial basin (for holding blood). That is what he drunk the wine from!

Here the history of paganism and the woman with the golden cup:

Their (Nimrod’s Babylon/Catholic Church) primary object was to introduce privately, by little and little, under the seal of secrecy and the sanction of an oath, what it would not have been safe all at once and openly to propound. biblepaedia.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/nimrod-part-13-semiramis-and-the-catholic-church/

Semiramis, Nimrod’s wife was the high priestess in his system of worship. She was the chief over prostitution in the temple that was filled with unbridled lust and licentiousness. Semiramis was known as the following:

“RHEA, MOTHER OF THE gods”  

 Where Nimrod is the "sun god", Semiramis is the "moon goddess'. She was worshiped throughout the world by each of the titles associated with Nimrod's worship, in addition to many titles unique to herself. For instance, the respective Greek and Roman names applied to the worship of Semiramis include: Aphrodite and Venus, the goddess of love; Artemis and Diana, the goddess of hunting and childbirth; Athena and Minerva, the goddess of crafts, war and wisdom; Demeter and Ceres, the goddess of growing things; Gaea and Terra, symbol of the fertile earth; Hera and Juno, the protector of marriage and women, who was the sister and wife of Zeus in Greek mythology, and the wife of Jupiter in Roman mythology; Hestia and Vesta, the goddess of the hearth; plus Rhea or Ops, who was wife and sister of the Greek horned-god Kronos. The Worship of Semiramis: http://aletheia.consultronix.com/7.html

“VENUS, MOTHER OF ALL IMPURITY”

A medallion painting from the House of Marcus Fabius Rufus in Pompeii, Italy, executed in the Second Style and depicting the Greco-Roman goddess Venus-Aphrodite wearing a diadem and holding a scepter; it is dated to the 1st century BC. Essay and texts on the sites by Umberto Pappalardo

“ISIS”

Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archaeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events. BibleTools.org

SEDET SVPER VNIVERSVM which translated is SEDET SUPER UNIVERSUM translating its meaning states: 'The world is her seat,' declaring her universal or worldwide authority.

Pope Leo XII minted a coin in his second year (the jubilee year of 1825) with his face on the front and the other side was a woman seated on the globe with a cup in her hand. The words above was inscribe on the coin. I am surprise that you do not know this! The Catholic church have mixed truth with many lies which has brought all forms of paganism into the church!

What I am suggesting that you do is look up the history of the woman with the golden cup. It is not found in the Bible. Also, the Catholic Church states it is to be obeyed and believe above the Bible! I believe the Bible and we all must choose who we hold our allegiance to a man made church or to THE MOST HIGH. I choose the latter!

Blessings!

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Gustave
3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Gustave: I am fully aware that the Catholic church has symbolized a lot with the priestly service of the Bible. That is why she claim she is married to Jesus! However, the ring comes from original Babylon of Nimrod. That is pagan and deal with sexual implications related to the mother earth and the phallus! The Catholic church uses one golden cup that represents mass and to drink wine of false doctrines. In mass wine is taken from one golden cup for each congregation to drink from. The Supper has been changed to a continuous ceremony all through out the day  The priest of the Bible had "golden vessels," and none of the vessels were cups.

And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and a bowl (as cut out hollow): - charger, dish. thereof, to cover withal: of pure gold shalt thou make them. Ex 25:29 

The Bible did not say that Belshazzar drunk out of any cups it said vessels and we know from Ex.25:29 what they were! According to Strong "dishes" were a bowl (as cut out hollow): - charger, dish. Bowls were a sacrificial basin (for holding blood). That is what he drunk the wine from!

Here the history of paganism and the woman with the golden cup:

Their (Nimrod’s Babylon/Catholic Church) primary object was to introduce privately, by little and little, under the seal of secrecy and the sanction of an oath, what it would not have been safe all at once and openly to propound. biblepaedia.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/nimrod-part-13-semiramis-and-the-catholic-church/

Semiramis, Nimrod’s wife was the high priestess in his system of worship. She was the chief over prostitution in the temple that was filled with unbridled lust and licentiousness. Semiramis was known as the following:

“RHEA, MOTHER OF THE gods”  

 Where Nimrod is the "sun god", Semiramis is the "moon goddess'. She was worshiped throughout the world by each of the titles associated with Nimrod's worship, in addition to many titles unique to herself. For instance, the respective Greek and Roman names applied to the worship of Semiramis include: Aphrodite and Venus, the goddess of love; Artemis and Diana, the goddess of hunting and childbirth; Athena and Minerva, the goddess of crafts, war and wisdom; Demeter and Ceres, the goddess of growing things; Gaea and Terra, symbol of the fertile earth; Hera and Juno, the protector of marriage and women, who was the sister and wife of Zeus in Greek mythology, and the wife of Jupiter in Roman mythology; Hestia and Vesta, the goddess of the hearth; plus Rhea or Ops, who was wife and sister of the Greek horned-god Kronos. The Worship of Semiramis: http://aletheia.consultronix.com/7.html

“VENUS, MOTHER OF ALL IMPURITY”

A medallion painting from the House of Marcus Fabius Rufus in Pompeii, Italy, executed in the Second Style and depicting the Greco-Roman goddess Venus-Aphrodite wearing a diadem and holding a scepter; it is dated to the 1st century BC. Essay and texts on the sites by Umberto Pappalardo

“ISIS”

Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archaeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events. BibleTools.org

SEDET SVPER VNIVERSVM which translated is SEDET SUPER UNIVERSUM translating its meaning states: 'The world is her seat,' declaring her universal or worldwide authority.

Pope Leo XII minted a coin in his second year (the jubilee year of 1825) with his face on the front and the other side was a woman seated on the globe with a cup in her hand. The words above was inscribe on the coin. I am surprise that you do not know this! The Catholic church have mixed truth with many lies which has brought all forms of paganism into the church!

What I am suggesting that you do is look up the history of the woman with the golden cup. It is not found in the Bible. Also, the Catholic Church states it is to be obeyed and believe above the Bible! I believe the Bible and we all must choose who we hold our allegiance to a man made church or to THE MOST HIGH. I choose the latter!

Blessings!

You're all over the map here, do you subscribe to or watch a significant amount of Walter Veith" 

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JoeMo
5 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I believe that the Seals cover the period of the decline and overthrow of the Pagan Roman System AD 96-312, the Trumpets is from AD 312 to the French Revolution AD 1789, and the Vials from AD 1789 to the return of Christ depicted in the 6th Vial and the establishment of the Kingdom in the 7th Vial. This is called the continuous historical view,

I am familiar with the continuous historical view; and it is closer to SDA theology than what I currently believe.  I take a futurist view of prophecy, which is also popular with many prominent theologians (non-SDA)  I don't believe the first seal has even been opened yet.  I don't accept the "day for year" theory; I believe that the end-time prophecies will be fulfilled in real-time - 7 years of Tribulation, the last 3.5 years being the Great Tribulation.

 

5 hours ago, TrevorL said:

It will be interesting to observe how SDAs react as some of these events transpire.

It will be interesting to see how everyone reacts as these events transpire.  In all likelihood we are both wrong.

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Ron Amnsn
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I don't accept the "day for year" theory;

I don't accept the way the "year-for-a-day principal" has often been applied to prophecy.  In the Bible whenever a year-for-a-day is used prophetically, there is always a period of literal days (40 days spying out the promised land) with significant, observable events at the start and end -- events that people could see (the spies departed to spy out the land; the spies returned from spying out the land) -- along with a corresponding period of  literal years (40 years wandering in the wilderness) also with significant, observable events at the start and end (the Israelites sent back into the wilderness; the Israelites enter the promised land).

When people try to apply the year-for-a-day principle to prophecies that lack a period of literal days (such as the 2300 days), or lack observable starting and ending events for the period of literal days (such as the 2300 days) or lack observable starting or ending events for the period of literal years (such as the 2300 years) they are merely speculating without regard for the way the Bible applies a year for a day to prophecy.

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TrevorL

Greetings again JoeMo and Greetings Ron Amnsn,

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I am familiar with the continuous historical view; and it is closer to SDA theology than what I currently believe.  I take a futurist view of prophecy, which is also popular with many prominent theologians (non-SDA)  I don't believe the first seal has even been opened yet.  I don't accept the "day for year" theory; I believe that the end-time prophecies will be fulfilled in real-time - 7 years of Tribulation, the last 3.5 years being the Great Tribulation.

I believe that the continuous historic approach would allow the faithful to recognise the situation current in their own time, and be encouraged by this. To squeeze the prophecies in the Book of Revelation to say seven years at the end would not be of much benefit to anyone.

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

It will be interesting to see how everyone reacts as these events transpire.  In all likelihood we are both wrong.

I have had to adjust some details of my belief as events unwind, but my general overall view has not changed. I was reading Isaiah 60 this morning and was very encouraged by this whole chapter. It speaks of how the nation of Israel will be blessed in the future, and that most of the nations will also be blessed.

7 minutes ago, Ron Amnsn said:

When people try to apply the year-for-a-day principle to prophecies that lack a period of literal days (such as the 2300 days), or lack observable starting and ending events for the period of literal days (such as the 2300 days) or lack observable starting or ending events for the period of literal years (such as the 2300 years) they are merely speculating without regard for the way the Bible applies a year for a day to prophecy.

I am a strong believer in the 2300 days representing the 2300 years from Alexander's victory over Persia in BC 334-333 to the retaking of Jerusalem by the Jews in AD 1967. One basis to support this day for a year in Daniel 8 is the 70 week prophecy, given in Daniel 9 at the same time, and very much integrated with the 2300 day prophecy.

Kind regards Trevor

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