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hch
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On 9/26/2018 at 11:28 AM, hch said:

But the yard was on fire and it was coming toward the house, then and there, I really appreciated getting woke up.

I don't see any fires coming from the direction your pointing; just smoke and mirrors.

 

On 9/26/2018 at 1:41 PM, hch said:

I clearly stated that Satan impersonates Pope John-Paul II as the EGW quote stated that Satan impersonates a HUMAN BEING before Satan personates Christ.

And what if EGW was wrong?

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On 9/26/2018 at 3:41 PM, hch said:

you reversed the context again. You must be the only one who thinks that someone impersonates Satan. I clearly stated that Satan impersonates Pope John-Paul II as the EGW quote stated that Satan impersonates a HUMAN BEING before Satan personates Christ.

If he were impersonating the Pope, she would've said the "Pope" and not human being!! Besides why would he need to impersonate the Pope? Isn't he already doing what satan needs?? I'm not convinced about the Pope!!

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21 minutes ago, phkrause said:

If he were impersonating the Pope, she would've said the "Pope" and not human being!! Besides why would he need to impersonate the Pope? Isn't he already doing what satan needs?? I'm not convinced about the Pope!!

You asked a good question.

From my study of Rev 17 as noted in a previous post in this topic... 5 are fallen, 1 is and 1 reigns a short space. The fallen 5 are the popes from Pius XI to John-Paul I. The one that is was John-Paul II. and the one that reigns for the short space was Benedict XVI. THE 8th is of the 7 and that will be Pope John-Paul II, who was 1 of the seven from Pius XVI to Benedict XVI. Remember that the last deceptions to deceive the world are the state of the dead and Sunday sacredness.  Pope John-Paul II reemphasized Sunday sacredness in Dies Domini, and when Satan impersonates him, he can quote Christ's instruction to Thomas "touch me feel me" and go on to say....this is my spiritual body...my physical body is in the Vatican Crypt.... 

EG White could have said that Satan would personate a pope rather than a Human Being, but she may not have seen  John-Paul II in his papal robes to know that Satan was to personate a pope. For all I know she may have seen Satan in a simple white robe personating a man. She knew that it was a man, but may not have known that it was John-Paul II.

It will be interesting if Satan personating Pope John-Paul II goes to his empty Vatican apartment. Job says that the dead do not go back to their homes.

That is how I read it. Remember that Knowledge is to increase until Christ comes. 

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1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I don't see any fires coming from the direction your pointing; just smoke and mirrors.

 

And what if EGW was wrong?

That my friend is a question that God will have to discuss with you.

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1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

2 Corinthians 11:14
Satan Personates Christ--II

Satan is preparing his deceptions that in his last campaign against the people of God, they may not understand that it is he. "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." . . . Satan will go to the extent of his power to harass, tempt, and mislead God's people.  {Mar 206.2}

He who dared to face, and tempt, and taunt our Lord, and who had power to take Him in his arms and carry Him to a pinnacle of the temple, and up into an exceeding high mountain, will exercise his power to a wonderful degree upon the present generation, who are far inferior in wisdom to their Lord, and who are almost wholly ignorant of his subtlety and strength.  {Mar 206.3}

In a marvelous manner will he affect the bodies of those who are naturally inclined to do his bidding.  {Mar 206.4}

He will come personating Jesus Christ, working mighty miracles; and men will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ.  {Mar 206.5}

We shall be commanded to worship this being, whom the world will glorify as Christ. What shall we do?--Tell them that Christ has warned us against just such a foe, who is man's worst enemy, yet who claims to be God; and that when Christ shall make His appearance, it will be with power and great glory, accompanied by ten thousand times ten thousand angels and thousands of thousands; and that when He shall come, we shall know His voice.  {Mar 206.6}

The time is coming when Satan will work miracles right in your sight, claiming that he is Christ; and if your feet are not firmly established upon the truth of God, then you will be led away from your foundation.  {Mar 206.7}

Satan is determined to keep up the warfare to the end. Coming as an angel of light, claiming to be the Christ, he will deceive the world. But his triumph will be short. No storm or tempest can move those whose feet are planted on the principles of eternal truth. They will be able to stand in this time of almost universal apostasy.  {Mar 206.8}

 

I completely agree with the quotes you kindly shared, but they contradict what you wrote previously:

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:40 PM, The Wanderer said:

This quote does NOT say that anyone will impersonate Satan.

I never on said that anyone would impersonate Satan. So I do not see why you made your statement above or why you worked so hard to prove what I am saying.

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:26 PM, The Wanderer said:
On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:23 PM, hch said:

so say you.

As I read Revelation 17 this is exactly what it means. And when Rev 17 is aligned with the Spirit of prophecy it is very clear.

 

Thats actually NOT what I say; its what scripture does not say. There is nothing in Rev 17 that tells us a Catholic Pope will impersonate Satan.

 

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:40 PM, The Wanderer said:

This quote does NOT say that anyone will impersonate Satan. Jesus is the one who will be personated, not Satan. And that IS in the Bible.

The quote that I cited from the Spirit of Prophecy clearly states that:

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:40 PM, The Wanderer said:

Satan will not only appear as a human being, but he will personate Jesus Christ; {RH, April 14, 1896 par. 6}

Revelation 17 says that 5 are FALLEN which is  Strong's #4098, which is defined  2b4) to be removed from power by death. Thus 5 are dead (Pius XI & XII, John XXIII. Paul VI, John-Paul I). One is that was John-Paul II (who is now dead. The 7th was Benedict who reigned for a short space. The 8th is of the 7. Six of the 7 are DEAD. The one that was identified as the one that is within the text was John-Paul II, who is now DEAD. There are only two choices a DEAD pope or Benedict is the 8th that is of the 7. John-Paul II is now DEAD and 1...he is the one that received Satan's Seat & Authority, 2... ruled for 42 months  (from 9/11/01 to 4/2/05), 3...received a deadly wound that was healed, 4...won the war against communism without firing a shot, 5...received the healing of the papacy's wound on America's behalf from Reagan who accepted him as head of state & Bush I who accepted him as "the world's moral leader" (the world's moral leader is the head of all the churches  [cf Rev 13], and John-Paul II fits Daniel 9's endtime meaning to the day.

As I read it the human being that Satan personates before Satan personates Christ is John-Paul II.

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5 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Hch, there is nothing in the quotes I posted saying Satan will impersonate anyone but Jesus. You are misquoting the information, and btw, I am not "working hard" on this at all.

Your quotes in conjunction with those that I have provided nail it down quite well thank you

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HCH, your reference to EGW presents her as stating that Satan will appear in human form,  It does not state that Satan will impersonate any specific person.  Yes, it does state that Satan will impersonate Jesus Christ,  I do not argue that point.  You cannot reasonably state that Satan will impersonate any Pope.

 

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36 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH, your reference to EGW presents her as stating that Satan will appear in human form,  It does not state that Satan will impersonate any specific person.  Yes, it does state that Satan will impersonate Jesus Christ,  I do not argue that point.  You cannot reasonably state that Satan will impersonate any Pope.

Gregory,  the evidence that I presented from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy speaks for itself. (By the way the pope claims to be the vicar of Christ.) You apparently do not read it the same way as I do since you do not come to the same conclusion. Present your evidence that Satan appearing as a human being that will not be a pope and let us look at it.

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An interesting thought from EGW:

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Superhuman power is working in a variety of ways, and few have any idea as to what will be the manifestations of Spiritualism in the future. The foundation for the success of Spiritualism has been laid in the assertions that have been made from the pulpits of our land. The ministers have proclaimed, as Bible doctrines, falsehoods that have originated from the arch-deceiver. The doctrine of consciousness after death, of the spirits of the dead being in communion with the living, has no foundation in the Scriptures, and yet this theory is affirmed as truth. Through this false doctrine the way has been opened for the spirits of devils to deceive the people in representing themselves as the dead. Satanic agencies personate the dead, and thus bring souls into captivity. Satan has a religion, he has a synagogue and devout worshipers. To swell the ranks of his devotees he uses all manner of deception.  {ST, May 28, 1894 par. 3}

 

 

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This is a statement worth considering:

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Some may ask, Why could you not understand the Bible before? It was because our brethren and sisters, immediately after the passing of the time in 1844, were searching diligently for the truth. They would meet together, and talk and talk and talk, and it seemed as if they could never come to right conclusions in regard to the teachings of the Word. I would meet with them, and we would study and pray together, for we felt as if we must learn what God's truth was. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. All could see that my mind was locked, as it were, and that I could not understand what we were studying.  {2SAT 239.1}  
     Then the Spirit of God would come upon me, and I would be taken off in vision, and be shown the meaning of the passages that we had been studying, and the position we were to take. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of our God, was plainly marked out before me, and I gave to my brethren and sisters the instruction God had given to me. They knew that I had not been able to understand these matters, and so they were ready to accept as light coming direct from heaven the revelations given me.  {2SAT 239.2}  
     For about two years I continued in this way, when, as I was praying, the precious promises and the words of instruction given us in the Scriptures were laid open before me, and the meaning of these words made clear. I knew that my mind had been unlocked by the Lord. From that time to this the Scriptures have been an open book to me. I can understand what I read. God accomplished His purpose through this experience of mine, and ever since that time our people have cherished and maintained the positions that were taken then.  {2SAT 239.3}  

 

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On 9/25/2018 at 7:41 AM, hch said:

"Are you faithful in all that you do?" Is just as important...

 

On 9/23/2018 at 8:51 AM, hch said:

Dear Sister,

Worship is the issue. TRUE  but that has always been the issue. Now that the deception is at hand, we are told in scriptures not to be deceived about worship.

The Scripture shows that the beast cannot ride itself.

 

Happy Sabbath HCH: Can you please tell me where I said that the beast ride itself. The Bible in Rev Chapter 17 gives a woman riding on the same beast in Rev Chapter 13. In that Chapter is describe the beast had feet like a bear; body like a leopard; and a head like a lion, actually the same as Daniel 7:7, 9. It had great iron teeth (that is Rome); diverse meaning different from all the othershe had nails of brass (here in Daniel this was given to show that the nails first introduce the beast had a part of Greece);   It was dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and: it devoured and brake in pieces.  (Daniel shows the lion part); and it stamped the residue with his feet (only a bear has feet like man that can stamp)! Dan 7:20 says the ten horns that were in his head; then another horn came up, and three horns fell; the new horn had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, it look was more stout than his fellowsRev Chapter shows the exact same beast but identified that leopard body was scarlet color and all that mean it was full of sin  and Greece play a major part.  It is true it hellenize the world since it ruled, up till today. The real symbol for Greece is the goat and this symbol is call Pan or Satan!                                                      

I hate to say this but don't you see that Daniel Chapter 8 identify the political symbols of Persia and Greece as a ram and a goat! So the identification in 7 were these kingdom's religions. The lion represent Babylon's religion and its political power.  The bear and the leopard were their religion or form of worship. You can find the lion with wings for Babylon, the ram and the goat in history but you cannot find the last two at all in history. That should tell you something. The significant of the lion is also identify Nimrod who change the form of worship. When YAHWEH scatter them they took a part of Nimrod's false worship with them and Neo Babylon,the Chaldean conquer Babylon and the original priest were still practicing. The Chaldean started the unification of Nimrod's false worship.

Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerer’s, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king. Dan 2:2 

The bear or Persian religion piece in another part, they are the Aryan people who brought in monotheism and the trinity:

By 650 BCE, the Zoroastrian faith, a monotheistic religion founded on the ideas of the philosopher Zoroaster, had become the official religion of ancient Persia. Later Judaism and then Christianity came to Persia via Mesopotamia, with both developing vibrant faith communities in Persian lands. To the east of the Persian Empire, the regional kingdoms of what is now Afghanistan and Central Asia adopted Buddhism from India in the third century, blending it with Zoroastrianism and Greek traditions. A Thousand Years of the Persian Book Religion

Many centuries Before Christ, the Aryans lived as shepherds and farmers north of the Himalayan Mountains. Because of three large population movements they also spread over a large part of Asia and Europe. A portion went to the West and became the ancestors of the Persians while others migrated to the south, through the plains from Afghanistan to Indonesia. In this country the immigrant population of the Aryans moved freely undisturbed while in the countries of the ancient India, other races came and merged with the Aryans.

Brahma is the creator and standing next to him are the other two gods of the Indian Trimurti (Trinity), which are Vishnu (the maintainer) and Shiva (the destroyer). Brahma generally enjoys less reverence than the two other gods Vishnu and Shiva. Vishnu is the maintainer and his wife Laksmi, goddess of abundance and fertility. Occasionally Vishnu descends into the world and these descents are cause for the famous celebrations. The most famous are those of Rama and Krishna (Kresna [to Christ]). Rama is a warrior hero of the epic Ramayana. Kresna is the hero of the epic Mahabharata. Ancient Aryan And The Brahmanism Religion

This religion, cloaked in mystery and secrecy, has captivated the imaginations of scholars for generations.  Many facts discovered sheds vital light on the cultural dynamics that led to the rise of Christianity.  The National Geographic Society’s book “Great Religions of the World,” page 309 writes; “By Jesus’ time, East and West had mingled here for three centuries.  Down columns of boulevards walked Roman soldiers loyal to the Persian god Mithras.” Mithras was a Persian deity.  He was also the most widely venerated god in the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus.  The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows:

1)  Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2)  Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3)  According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4)  After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5)  Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6)  Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

Assuming that religion can evolve, and thus has from prehistoric times to today, by elaborating on the basic prehistoric concepts of other religions, this statement can seem true. For example, there are many similarities between Christianity and the Roman Mystery Cults, which can be assumed to be at least somewhat adopted from the Greeks as almost all Roman things were adapted from someone or another). The Cult of Isis practiced celibacy, an ascetic priesthood, and used blood as a divine object (which can be related to the blood of Christ).

Mithraism, another mystery cult, was very similar to a central idea of Christianity: Jesus Christ. Just as Jesus was the savior in Christianity, so was Mithra in Mithraism. Mithra was a Persian god of protection who protected the souls of the just, was born of a virgin on December 24 (although the date was placed in mid-200 BCE whereas Jesus was assumed to have been born around the turn of BCE to CE), and promoted celibacy and brotherhood. Jesus, with a few alterations in dates and names, holds the same aspects as Mithra.

First, there is the fundamental question of a pantheon versus one god. The Greeks believed in a pantheon of gods (with Zeus – in its later traditions – as the "head") while Christianity has only one God who is sometimes accompanied by Jesus and the Holy Spirit as a "trinity". It can be argued that the Greek pantheon of gods is only the various aspects of a one, true god (perhaps Zeus in some respect, or even Gaia, although she has become more a representation of the Earth than one of the original immortal beings). This would then agree with the Council of Nicaea, which in 325 CE decreed that Jesus and God were of “one substance” with different aspects, thus preserving the ideal of monotheism while explaining polytheistic-leaning aspects. Did Christianity Evolve From Greek Religion?

I have given Bible symbols just like they were; Iron-Rome; brass- Greece these are the metal found in Daniel Chapter Two. The lion- Babylon, Bear- Persia, leopard- Greece. The fourth beast had all of above a part of it in both Daniel and Revelation and both said it was burned in fire!

I going to break  up the other parts of the quote. Let me say clearly, we all must choose what is truth!

Blessings!

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23 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Satan will work miracles in the sight of the beast, and deceive "them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast" (Rev_13:14). {YRP 126.3}

Thank you for helping me to nail it down further with this Spirit of Prophecy explanation that you posted that links to Rev. 13:14.

Ellen White paraphrased part of Rev. 13:14 to clarify its meaning then she quoted the exact text.

And deceiveth "them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast..." Rev 13:14

Strong gives these numbers to track down other word meanings  "he <846> had power <1325> (5681) to do <4160> (5658) in the sight <1799> of the beast <2342>"

EGW explained that the one who had power to do the miracles was Satan.

From Strong's the alternate reading of Rev 13:14 is worthy of our attention:

How it is in KJV... alternate translation:

he <846> Satan per EGW

had power  <1325> (5681) will work miracles per EGW

to do <4160> (5658) to make  

in the sight <1799> neuter of a compound of 1722 and a derivative of 3700 per Strong

***********<1722 >by

***********<3700> allow one’s self to be seen, to appear

[of the] beast <2342> [as the] beast  [words in the brackets are added... they are not in the text]

"he had power to do in the sight [of the] beast" (Rev 13:14 KJV).

"Satan will work miracles to make himself to be seen [as the] beast" (Rev. 13:14 alternate reading based on Strong & EGW).

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4 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Happy Sabbath HCH: Can you please tell me where I said that the beast ride itself. 

Happy Sabbath to you tool

YOU DID NOT SAY IT. I said it in my remarks to explain that the woman is not the papacy, but Apostate Protestantism. Since the beast is the first beast described in Revelation 13, it is clear that the beast is the papacy. The woman cannot be the papacy because the papacy cannot be riding itself.

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On 9/23/2018 at 8:51 AM, hch said:

The Scripture shows that the beast cannot ride itself. Revelation 12 identifies Satan's 1260-year reign from the Egyptian death decree until the birth of Jesus. Then Satan uses the papacy for 1260 years to do his will. Then the papacy receives the deadly wound and Satan restores its kingdom for 1 hour  (83 years 4 months...14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013 ) and just before that time came to an end, Satan gave his power to Pope John-Paul II for 42 literal months. Revelation 17 picks up the prophecy … 5 are fallen (popes Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I) ONE is (John-Paul II) and one is to come for a short space (Benedict XVI). A short space is not defined in Scripture. But the Spirit of prophecy states that as prophecy relates to the church 7 is the number of completion.

Joe I never said the world will end with papal totalitarianism. I said that the papacy will be destroyed by the beast! Before I start I want all here to know that I agree with EGW visions. I am going to quote directly from EGW so you all will know that the Bible and EGW agree when Satan was kick out of Heaven. 

THE SON of God, THE PRINCE of Heaven, and his loyal angels, engaged in conflict with the arch rebel and those who united with him. THE SON of God and true, loyal angels prevailed; and Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from Heaven. All the heavenly host acknowledged and adored the God of Justice. Not a taint of rebellion was left in Heaven. All was again peaceful and harmonious as before…

Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from Heaven. . .

Angels in Heaven mourned the fate of those who had been their companions in happiness and bliss. Their loss was felt in Heaven. THE FATHER consulted Jesus in regard to at once carrying out their purpose to make man to inhabit the earth. HE would place man upon probation to test his loyalty, before he could be rendered eternally secure. If he endured the test wherewith God saw fit to prove him, he should eventually be equal with the angels. He was to have the favor of God, and he was to converse with angels, and they with him. HE did not see fit to place them beyond the power of disobedience

Satan was permitted to tempt them. . .

Satan stood in amazement at his new condition. His happiness was gone. He looked upon the angels who, with him, were once so happy, but who had been expelled from Heaven with him. Before their fall, not a shade of discontent had marred their perfect bliss. Now all seemed changed. Countenances which had reflected the image of their Maker were gloomy and despairing. Strife, discord, and bitter recrimination, were among them. Previous to their rebellion these things had been unknown in Heaven. Satan now beholds the terrible results of his rebellion. He shuddered, and feared to face the future, and to contemplate the end of these things.

The hour for joyful, happy songs of praise to God and his dear Son had come. Satan had led the heavenly choir. He had raised the first note, then all the angelic host united with him, and glorious strains of music had resounded through Heaven in honor of God and his dear Son. But now, instead of strains of sweetest music, discord and angry words fall upon the ear of the great rebel leader. Where was he? Was it not all a horrible dream? Was he shut out of Heaven?

Were the gates of Heaven never more to open and admit him? The hour of worship draws nigh, when bright and holy angels bow before THE FATHER. No more will he unite in Heavenly song. No more will he bow in reverence and holy awe before THE PRESENCE of THE ETERNAL God. Could he be again as he was when he was pure, true and loyal, gladly would he yield up the claims of his authority? But he was lost, beyond redemption, for his presumptuous rebellion! And this was not all; he had led others to rebellion and to the same lost condition with himself—angels, who had never thought to question THE WILL of Heaven, or refuse obedience to the Saw of God till he had put it into their minds, presenting before them that they might enjoy a greater good, a higher and more glorious liberty. This had been the sophistry whereby he had deceived them. A responsibility now rests upon him from which he would fain be released.

These spirits had become turbulent with disappointed hopes. Instead of greater good, they were experiencing the sad results of disobedience and disregard of Law. Never more would these unhappy beings be swayed by the mild rule of Jesus Christ. Never more would their spirits be stirred by the deep, earnest love, peace, and joy, which HIS PRESENCE had ever inspired in them, to be returned to HIM in cheerful obedience and Reverential Honor.

Satan trembled as he viewed his work. He was alone in meditation upon the past, the present, and his future plans. His mighty frame shook as with a tempest. An angel from Heaven was passing. He called him, and entreated an interview with Christ. This was granted him. He then related to THE SON of God that he repented of his rebellion, and wished again the favor of God. He was willing to take the place God had previously assigned him, and be under his wise command. Christ wept at Satan’s woe, but told him, as THE MIND of God, that he could never be received into Heaven. Heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All Heaven would be marred should he be received back; for sin and rebellion originated with him. The seeds of rebellion were still within him. He had, in his rebellion, no occasion for his course, and he had not only hopelessly ruined himself, but the host of angels also, who would then have been happy in Heaven had he remained steadfast. The Law of God could condemn, but could not pardon.

He repented not of his rebellion because he saw the goodness of God which he had abused. It was not possible that his love for God had so increased since his fall that it would lead to cheerful submission and happy obedience to HIS Law which had been despised. The wretchedness he realized in losing the sweet light of Heaven, and the sense of guilt which forced itself upon him, and the disappointment he experienced himself in not finding his expectations realized, were the cause of his grief. To be commander out of Heaven was vastly different from being thus honored in Heaven. The loss he had sustained of all the privileges of Heaven seemed too much to be borne. He wished to regain these.

This great change of position had not increased his love for God, nor for HIS Wise and just Law. When Satan became fully convinced that there was no possibility of his being reinstated in the favor of God, he manifested his malice with increased hatred and fiery vehemence.

God knew that such determined rebellion would not remain inactive. Satan would invent means to annoy the heavenly angels, and show contempt for his authority. As he could not gain admission within the gates of Heaven, he would wait just at the entrance, to taunt the angels and seek contention with them as they went in and out. He would seek to destroy the happiness of Adam and Eve. He would endeavor to incite them to rebellion, knowing that this would cause grief in Heaven.

Satan held a consultation with his evil angels. They did not all readily unite to engage in this hazardous and terrible work. He told them that he would not entrust any one of them to accomplish this work; for he thought that he alone had wisdom sufficient to carry forward so important an enterprise. He wished them to consider the matter while he should leave them and seek retirement, to mature his plans. He sought to impress upon them that this was their last and only hope. If they failed here, all prospect of regaining and controlling Heaven, or any part of ELOHIM'S creation, was hopeless. 1SP p. 22, 23, 27, 28, 31

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, HE hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 1:6 

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. Rev 9:1, 5 

And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Rev 20:1-3   Only Satan is allowed right now to go back and forth without a restraint to earth. How many other evil angels do read except that one legion that were expel by YAHSHUA and those assign to each of us individually; until we died. Then they must return to prison.

Satan rebel and was kick of Heaven before the earth was made. The Greek word "ge" means soil, terrain, globe, world which would include the earth. The moon is "ge" and so is mars and other planets and worlds that have soil or land mass. When the KJV was written, they thought the earth was the center of the universe, it is not. Those who are SDA, knows that EGW talks about Orient buckle and this is where YAHSHUA is going to come through. Let gets some things straight about angels, they are beings who bodies are spirits and not flesh. So they have a body like THE FATHER. Mat 14:26; Mark 1:10, 1:26; John 4:24; Heb 1:7 The word spirit has been interchained with the word ghost, soul and mind. I agree with EGW words have been changed and confusion by Satan cause man to accept the false things like ghost and having the nerve to call THE HOLY SPIRIT that word. They even state that YAHSHUA gave up the ghost-huh????? Deception, deception, deception has creep in even in YAHSHUA'S day that why HE Said: "In vain do men worship me teaching the doctrines and traditions of men." Those who claim they accept EGW but only certain parts and not  when she state that what we may thought was once true, once it is shown in the Bible that it is error let it go and we will not just like Israel, the Canaanites, antediluvians. TM p. 105 We all have conform so much to this world and paganism that we can't see the truth because we have become delusional.

Prejudice and hatred base on skin color, religion, culture, you name it and we have it; all of us. Woman was created equal with man but once again over the centuries men disrespecting the woman or our bodies and our rights have cause an explosion. 

Henry I am sad to say have move away from the truth. The whore, is the stout fellow and his harlots are the Protestant churches. The beast is not the papacy and let me say this all Protestant churches once thought this too. That is why our pioneers who came from them thought this way, just like they thought to keep Sunday! How could Daniel and Revelation be the same book if we spue out things, that just do not make sense. Daniel saw through time first all the way to 1335 prophetic days when YAHWEH spoke when HIS SON would return. It is clear that the wicked would not understand but blessed to the righteous they would hear and understand. John pick up the time and Gabriel was to make it even more plain to John and to those who have the wisdom of YAHWEH and not man wisdom and philosophies. Islam has nothing to do with the man of sin who is the beast. The presidents Henry are you serious??????? Paul not once spoke of 1,260 days in Thessalonians, however, he did say this:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Now, I would like anyone of you show me where the whore was place in the lake of fire? The stout horn and the whore are both Catholicism!

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom YAHSHUA shall consume with THE SPIRIT of HIS MOUTH, and shall destroy with the brightness of HIS coming: 2Th 2:8 

Now in both Daniel and Revelation it states the beast was put in the Lake of Fire. Dan 7: 11 Note the beast was given over to the flames! Rev 19:20 states beast and the false prophet only was place in the Lake of fire.

To close if Satan was kick out of Heaven and Jude clearly states they lost their first estate and the earth was not made; where did they go? I give you the bottomless pit! Please stop thinking of a bottom like something in a hole or downward. The same for pit just look them up! In Luke 8:31 those legions of angels begged YAHSHUA to let them go into the swines. Why, well the Bible said they did not want to go back into the deep. Now I wonder why the deep is use here, it mean the same thing bottomless pit. The KJV scribes change it, because Satan loves to confuse us and throw us off. What is a dark place that has not bottom or ending folks? The universe and angels do not need oxygen, we do; we have to have a firmament. All created beings of ELOHIYM and included THE ALMIGHTY ONES need soil or a land mass. Heaven is not a floating cloud, it has streets of gold and trees, plants etc; they all need soil. Satan and his angels are living somewhere like a moon in prison. All of his angels are not here, let's be real if they were we would not exist, believe me! Even when they are loose there were so many of them John saw them like smoke, then locust and finally favoring men somewhat with iron breastplates and long hair. If you continue to read Rev Chapter 9 they were told not to touch those who was to be sealed and they could not kill the wicked only torture them for five month. The Bible said the beast will come from Satan's headquarter and throne. The Bible said very clearly the earth is YAHWEH and the fullness thereof and all the cattle on a thousand hills are HIS. HE, not Satan, sits up kings and take them down. So just read things, look up words understand words have been changed. Remember this is a presentation and it up to all to check out everything themselves. Forgive for the length but I quote a large piece from EGW! Love you Henry and Joe!

Blessings!

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On 9/29/2018 at 5:48 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Satan rebel and was kick of Heaven before the earth was made.

Then how is it that satan was in heaven at the same time as the other 'sons of God" were there in Job's time?

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As much as I would like to contribute to this conversation, the absurdity of one participant's posts and the overabundance of EGW quotes prevents me from doing so without sounding sarcastic.

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On 9/27/2018 at 7:56 PM, hch said:

THE 8th is of the 7 and that will be Pope John-Paul II, who was 1 of the seven from Pius XVI to Benedict XVI.

There never was a pope Pius the XVI.  Also, these Kings you refer to are KINGDOMS - From a Middle Eastern perspective (which is where almost all scripture is focused), the Roman Empire didn't end until the Ottomans conquered Constantinople (the center of the eastern Roman Empire) until the mid-15th century.  The city was originally named for King Constantine, and was referred to as the Roman Empire by Muslims through that time.  After that, The Ottomans rules virtually the identical region as the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Medo-Persions, Greeks, (the kings that were) Romans (king that is) sequentially over the millennia.  The eighth king will be like the seventh - Muslim.

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:backtopic:

Much hinges on whether Trump actually carries through his threat of imminent sanctions against Iran, and how Iran responds to said sanctions.  If they carry though with their threat to close the Straits of Hormuz, there will likely be major military conflict.  It's hard to say who will strike the first blow.

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18 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

But Iran has had sanctions before; why would they block the Straight Of Hormuz this time? They dont really stand much of a chance against the US Military. They are running scared and blind.

The new sanctions are harsher and will escalate (assuming our allies go along with them).  Iran's economy - already in shambles without sanctions - would likely collapse.  And like a wounded animal, it will lash out aggressively - probably against Israel.  Today Iran shot several very accurate ballistic missiles into Syria demonstrating their ability to attack Israel, and killing scores of "rebels".

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2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

There never was a pope Pius the XVI.  Also, these Kings you refer to are KINGDOMS - From a Middle Eastern perspective (which is where almost all scripture is focused), the Roman Empire didn't end until the Ottomans conquered Constantinople (the center of the eastern Roman Empire) until the mid-15th century.  The city was originally named for King Constantine, and was referred to as the Roman Empire by Muslims through that time.  After that, The Ottomans rules virtually the identical region as the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Medo-Persions, Greeks, (the kings that were) Romans (king that is) sequentially over the millennia.  The eighth king will be like the seventh - Muslim.

Hi Joe

Kings and kingdoms are at times used interchangeably in Scripture. THAT is TRUE. But just going with the passage it is clear … "And [and… added word by translators] here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth  And [there … added word by translators] are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:9-10

Just removing the two added word and punctuation added by translators it is clearly saying: "Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (on which the woman sitteth) and are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

Since the text clearly states that the 7 are KINGS, what is the justification for taking the clear explanation within the context of the Scripture  and changing the KINGS to KINGDOMS?

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2 hours ago, JoeMo said:
  On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:56 PM, hch said:

THE 8th is of the 7 and that will be Pope John-Paul II, who was 1 of the seven from Pius XVI to Benedict XVI.

Thanks for pointing out my typo. That should not be too confusing since immediately before the typo I Specified Pope Pius XI to begin the chain that ended with Benedict XVI.

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:56 PM, hch said:

The fallen 5 are the popes from Pius XI to John-Paul I. The one that is was John-Paul II. and the one that reigns for the short space was Benedict XVI. THE 8th is of the 7 and that will be Pope John-Paul II

 

 

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20 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

This passage repeats the affirmation made in verse 8 concerning "the beast that thou sawest," which in turn is the "scarlet colored beast," on which the woman sat. The Bible shows that this beast symbolizes a civil power, which according to the narrative before us, passes through seven phases represented also in the leopard beast of Revelation 13, until an eighth appears and continues to the end.

Where does Rev 17 say that the 8th continues to the end?

You said "this beast symbolizes a civil power," are you saying that this beast in question (Rev 17) is not a continued explanation of the first beast that was depicted in Revelation 13:1-9 ( the papacy was a religio-political power? In Revelation 13:10 & onward does not the focus shift from the first beast to the 2nd? Likewise Rev 17, the focus shifts from the papal beast to the woman (American Apostate Protestantism that is riding the beast...holding the reins).

Remember "The Mark of the beast is a seal of authority …"the fourth commandment is the only one that contains all three elements of a seal: (1) "The Lord"--His name, (2) "made"--His office as Creator, (3) "heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is"--His territory." The woman in Revelation has the Mark of the Beast engraved on her forehead: Re 17:5 states " And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." (1) "Babylon the Great"--The name of the beast, (2) "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS"--Her office a mother ruling children, (3) "of the earth"--Satan's usurped territory... ["And the beast which I saw...the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" Revelation 13:2]"

The context of Revelation 17 is that the 8th king is of the seven. Having identified them as the Popes that had their kingdom restored for an hour (83 years 4 months from 14 October 1929 through 14 February 2013) from Pius XI to Benedict XVI. 6 of the 7 are dead the 7th is Benedict XVI.

Do not forget that the last 2 deceptions that will deceive mankind are (1) the State of the DEAD and (2) Sunday sacredness. Pope John-Paul II links to both as well as being one of the 7. He is dead... for Satan (the one who is to go to perdition) to personate him is to clearly state that the dead are not dead AND John-Paul II reaffirmed the Catholic teaching of Sabbath changed to Sunday in Dies Domini. When Satan, the 8th, personates John-Paul II, Satan will deceive the world regarding (1) the State of the DEAD and (2) Sunday sacredness!

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3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

:backtopic:

Much hinges on whether Trump actually carries through his threat of imminent sanctions against Iran, and how Iran responds to said sanctions.  If they carry though with their threat to close the Straits of Hormuz, there will likely be major military conflict.  It's hard to say who will strike the first blow.

JoeMo,

I was warning about Iran attacking the US Fleet (aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf since 2011-12 from my reading of Daniel) when President Obama was making a peace deal with Iran and long before President Trump ever tore up the deal. The prophecy will be fulfilled as God has ordained.

The bottom line is "Do we understand the prophecies?" If we do not understand them,  we cannot possibly be ready for Jesus to come, any more that Peter was prepared to stand for Christ the night that he denied Him three times.

We have a work to do in our hearts and a short time in which to do it.

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3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

But Iran has had sanctions before; why would they block the Straight Of Hormuz this time? They dont really stand much of a chance against the US Military. They are running scared and blind.

It is a David and Goliath scenario. When Iran is desperate what can a little country like that do against America and the world?

Cut off the oil and make US hurt like the US is making them hurt?

By the way. It takes oil to fly planes that could bomb Iran and it takes oil to drive US tanks and transports. (If Japan had taken out Hawaii's oil depot when it bombed Perl Harbor, the war ships that US sent to fight in the Pacific would have been stranded as sitting ducks because we could not have gotten fuel to them in time for them to engage Japan's fleet. ) But the Japanese did not realize the importance of oil as it related to our ability to fight a successful war. 

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