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Gregory Matthews

Europe Speaks Again

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The Wanderer
15 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

If I was moderator; Id move all these topics to the category where they belong. Peppering everyone with this topic like this, under the guise of "breaking news" or whatever else its supposed to be gets tiring. It belongs in the Womens Ordination section. It would have been much more useful to also put all these "Someone Speaks" topics into one thread so that we can keep track of it all better. Its starting to just look like propaganda.

A quote from the article you referred us to:

Quote

The key point of the statement: “We want to express our conviction that the best way to build and keep unity is through open dialogue, mutual listening and respecting freedom of conscience in issues that do not impact the Church’s fundamental beliefs.”

The GC document all the BIG Speaks are complaining about actually does detail a process whereby everyone is invited to "open dialogue, and mutual respect and listening" and it even spells out step by step, how the various levels of church leaders can proceed. All of the BIG SPEAK in the world is less than useless, while they ignore Bible counsel to NOT air so called dirty laundry before the world like this. Its not hard to see that this is ALL about "womens ordination" so called. People are not stupid and its time to stop treating us like we are.

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Gregory Matthews

I have considered moving    this topic to the section on female ordination and decided not to do so.  The  fundamental issue here is how to obtain unity.  As such it has united people who object to the ordination to females in opposition to the proposal for unity.   This issue  is much more than just the ordination of women.   

I do not have the agenda for this meeting, but the following, as reported by Adventist Today are some (not all) of t he items scheduled to be discussed:

Quote

The entire meeting will not be spent on the major issue. Other key policy decisions are on the agenda, some of them perhaps related to “compliance” although not labeled as such.

The language in Article III entitled “Relationships” in the Model Constitution for Union Conferences in the GC Working Policy, which states that “The purposes, policies and procedures of this union conference shall be in harmony with the working policies and procedures of the … General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists,” is proposed to be amended by also inserting “voted actions.” This is similar to language in the “compliance” proposal described above. The same amendment is proposed for the model constitutions for union missions, unions of churches, local conferences and missions.

A new policy on “Employment of Personnel” would, if voted, require people hired “in every capacity” be “members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in regular standing … who exert a positive influence along spiritual lines for building up the work and who adhere to Church standards and principles in all facets of their lives.” This is specifically to “institutions” as well as conferences, which could create major issues of Adventist hospitals where the vast majority of the staff are not Adventists. If adopted, this would be policy E 03 in the GC Working Policy.

A revised version of policy L 20 will be considered, re-writing it so it is about “Ministerial and Theological Education” in general instead of specifically the “Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary.” It recognizes that the denomination has grown to have a number of graduate schools specializing in theology, Biblical studies and pastoral ministry. New language inserts “theological unity” along with retaining language for “sound scholarship in the fields of Bible and religious history.” Also, “special emphasis must be given to Seventh-day Adventist distinctive teachings and lifestyle.”

The charter for the “Financial Statement Review Committee,” bodies which have long been required to function at each level of the denomination’s organization on a yearly basis, is proposed to have two additional duties added to the four that already exist: (1) “Review [the] auditor’s Policy Compliance Report … for reported policy non-compliance with core financial policies … and discuss with management team their plans to achieve compliance.” (2) “Review auditor’s Audit Communication Letter for reported internal control deficiencies …”

 

 

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I have considered moving    this topic to the section on female ordination and decided not to do so.  The  fundamental issue here is how to obtain unity.

Its to do with WOE and I dont see why that needs to be denied. I think your actions are not exactly as you say; and Im out of here. I wont put up with the coercive indoctrination and making everyone who protests look stupid for even questioning it. "4 legs good, two legs bad...."

 

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

We will miss you.

I doubt it very much.

You would never allow any other forum members to do what you are doing with this topic, and its wrong to say the so called UNITY topics not about WOE. Every single one of them are all just rabbit trails to WOE.  It only takes a few minutes on any of the topics to get to the WOE spin. It would be different if the topics that are regarding WOE were at least put in the forum area where they belong. This will be my last post, I am completely sick of this stupid subject.

"Leaders" should be setting the bar and leading by example. We dont have to put up with this kind of harassment anywhere online. Its called spamming and harassment.

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Gregory Matthews

My friend, you have had freedom to post as you please on this subject.

You do not have to believe that you will be missed.  That is your choice.

I hope that after you have had time to rest, relax and recoup, you will return.

 

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The Wanderer
On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:07 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

My friend, you have had freedom to post as you please on this subject.

You do not have to believe that you will be missed.  That is your choice.

I hope that after you have had time to rest, relax and recoup, you will return.

Not five minutes after I posted the above and someone from the forum was texting me to see if I am OK or not. That leads me to believe that some people do care. However, it does not follow that the push and shove over this issue is taking place with people who care about the church They are proving daily whose side they are on.  The message here is clear. They dont care about the church; even though they invoke the name of Jesus in their vassal approach to "ordination."

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rudywoofs (Pam)
41 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Not five minutes after I posted the above and someone from the forum was texting me to see if I am OK or not. That leads me to believe that some people do care. However, it does not follow that the push and shove over this issue is taking place with people who care about the church They are proving daily whose side they are on.  The message here is clear. They dont care about the church; even though they invoke the name of Jesus in their vassal approach to "ordination."

FWIW, I wasn't under the impression that you were having a difficult time, or that you were leaving the forum.  I just thought you were annoyed with the inundation of "articles" related to WO being posted in the Real Issues area.  I'm tired of it, as well.

Articles are okay, but they don't really make the forum interesting.... we aren't discussing the articles with their author(s).  Indeed, we rarely even discuss the articles with the person who posted them.  Kind of odd.  If one posts an article you’d think the poster would have a personal comment or opinion regarding said article.  If not, then why post the article?  Forums are for discussion … it’s not a “news” agency.  IMHO.  **shrugs**

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The Wanderer
3 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

FWIW, I wasn't under the impression that you were having a difficult time, or that you were leaving the forum.  I just thought you were annoyed with the inundation of "articles" related to WO being posted in the Real Issues area.  I'm tired of it, as well.

Articles are okay, but they don't really make the forum interesting.... we aren't discussing the articles with their author.

Thank you! Wow! Someone actually gets me! lol But THAT could be dangerous too!

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The Wanderer
On 10/11/2018 at 12:07 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

hope that after you have had time to rest, relax and recoup, you will return.

why on earth do I need to "recoup?"  What is "wrong" with me?

why is it always "something wrong" with a person when they question the status quo?

DSC04742.jpg

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Stan

Something to consider about the upcoming 'vote'

Not every organization is under US Law.

For example, a Church or other Charity in Canada that lets a foreign power take control of them and remove a democratically elected Church leader, as my long-term friend Ted Wilson is proposing, will cause the Church in Canada to either lose our charitable status, or we will have to separate from the World Widebody.  I suspect other countries have similar laws.

 

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The Wanderer
36 minutes ago, Stan said:

Something to consider about the upcoming 'vote'

Not every organization is under US Law.

For example, a Church or other Charity in Canada that lets a foreign power take control of them and remove a democratically elected Church leader, as my long-term friend Ted Wilson is proposing, will cause the Church in Canada to either lose our charitable status, or we will have to separate from the World Widebody.  I suspect other countries have similar laws.

Its like I just said in another thread: the one and only time Jesus used "violence" it was over money!

John 2:15 

Quote

"And when he had made a whip of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;"

I know I am NOT Jesus, but what would you do if I came to your church and did that today? It would be you who separated me from the world-wide body by calling the cops and having my hide hauled off to jail. People have already been "separated" from the world-wide body by WOE proponents who will not hesitate to shun anyone who sees the WOE issue differently. WOE is simply another divide and conquer ruse that some have chosen to call "ordination."

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The Wanderer
16 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Its like I just said in another thread: the one and only time Jesus used "violence" it was over money!

John 2:15 

I know I am NOT Jesus, but what would you do if I came to your church and did that today? It would be you who separated me from the world-wide body by calling the cops and having my hide hauled off to jail. People have already been "separated" from the world-wide body by WOE proponents who will not hesitate to shun anyone who sees the WOE issue differently. WOE is simply another divide and conquer ruse that some have chosen to call "ordination."

The "separation" has already happened. The WOE robo-cops already have their ways of screening anyone who comes in the church doors to see who is "with them;" and it wont be long before the courts and the lawyers bank accounts light up like never before with church money that really belongs to God.Fighting over real=estate and other church asets will definitely send "the message" to the world. But thats whats coming.

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Gregory Matthews

  As a Moderator, I consider one of the functions of this forum to be that of a news organization.  As such, I  often post articles that  I  consider worthy of being a news item.

I often do not comment on stuff that I post because, as a Moderator, I do not want to lead the discussion.

Yes, I do post comments sometimes.

 

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B/W Photodude
20 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I often do not comment on stuff that I post because, as a Moderator, I do not want to lead the discussion.

Yes, I do post comments sometimes.

Just a thought. While you may not want to lead the discussion, you do by the source of the articles you post. They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

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The Wanderer
2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Just a thought. While you may not want to lead the discussion, you do by the source of the articles you post. They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

I agree; its not like I am the only one that has noticed. I just said what many others are thinking. It is NOT really right or fair to use Moderator privilege here to pepper us with liberal propoganda.

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The Wanderer
3 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I agree; its not like I am the only one that has noticed. I just said what many others are thinking. It is NOT really right or fair to use Moderator privilege here to pepper us with liberal propoganda.

and its even worse in this case because there is a forum specially designated for the so called "womens" ordination. But even there, the first 8 topics are locked and loaded. No one has ever been permitted to answer or reply to them. The scales are definitely tipped here.

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The Wanderer
Just now, CoAspen said:

You posters need to quit 'whining', here is some cheeseand crackers!!

We are not the ones doing the whining. It doesnt sound like you even read the article being referred to but if you did you have ignored the COM-Plain facts. Ill still take the cheese and crackers tho!

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CoAspen
Quote

 They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

Quote

 It is NOT really right or fair to use Moderator privilege here to pepper us with liberal propoganda.

Sounds like whining to me! Useing the terms 'propaganda', 'Liberal' doesn't sound like someone wanting to have a discussion. Just name calling because their opinion  is different? Well, at least trying too, because useing labels doesn't mean a lot w/o a definition. But, based on the way the term 'liberal/left wing' is used, one can assume it is meant to be derogatory...as long as assumptions are being made. 

Got to be tuff for birds, being they have left and right wings! At least they don't get confused!!

Don't like topics about WO, don't read them!

(is there a paticular cheese or crackers you enjoy?)

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B/W Photodude

So, it seems that the compliance issue was voted on and the results are ... holding my breath!

The vote passed 185 to 124. We now have a committee selected by Ted Wilson that can police the church from top to bottom.

May you all be obedient, compliant Adventists.

https://atoday.org/the-past-with-a-future-day-1-afternoon-report/

I guess it was necessary to throw in that last little bit about being obedient compliant Adventists. We will just over look the fact that it was a resounding affirmative vote at the GC, because we all know that it is just a group at GC doing all of this.

This whole situation is very concerning, and while I do not like to attach current events to prophecies, it is just so much like those prophecies of fearing the church would fail, but would stand strong. Unfortunately, the same prophecies include large numbers of members defecting from the church and many other end time events. But I will just keep watching.

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B/W Photodude
13 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

I guess it was necessary to throw in that last little bit about being obedient compliant Adventists. We will just over look the fact that it was a resounding affirmative vote at the GC, because we all know that it is just a group at GC doing all of this.

Sometimes GC gets used in multiple ways!

So,

GC #1 - The General Conference session at San Antonio

GC #2 - The group of men in the church headquarters holding the church hostage!

(TIC present!)

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The Wanderer
17 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

Sometimes GC gets used in multiple ways!

So,

GC #1 - The General Conference session at San Antonio

GC #2 - The group of men in the church headquarters holding the church hostage!

(TIC present!)

I thought It stood for

 

 

 

Great Catch

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, CoAspen said:

Sounds like whining to me! Useing the terms 'propaganda', 'Liberal' doesn't sound like someone wanting to have a discussion. Just name calling because their opinion  is different? Well, at least trying too, because useing labels doesn't mean a lot w/o a definition. But, based on the way the term 'liberal/left wing' is used, one can assume it is meant to be derogatory...as long as assumptions are being made. 

Got to be tuff for birds, being they have left and right wings! At least they don't get confused!!

Don't like topics about WO, don't read them!

(is there a paticular cheese or crackers you enjoy?) 

batsky.jpg

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