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LifeHiscost

Sunday"s coming,___________________________

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The Wanderer

The title doesnt make sense. "Sunday" is already here. Its the first day of every week. At least, it is in this life time.

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Kevin H

Have the same thought as Wanderer. But also think I have an idea as to what LifeHiscost is after and it is a good point, about the role of Sabbath and Sunday in last day events.

Two basic principles to keep in mind here. First the Bible  gives possible  scenarios as to how the world could have ended in different times in history. There is a basic framework, and then applications of that framework. (for a general frame work see in the SDABC "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy") Amos tells us that if there is a major change God will let us know through his prophets.

A second principle is to see that Satan has always built traditions upon these prophecies and scenarios so that God's people "know just what is going to happen" and he has thus far a 100% record of getting God's people to become so secure in our traditions that we miss the boat. God's people knew that things were going to improve in the land and the temple would stand forever and that the Messiah will rule from there. Later Gods people knew that the exile was going to end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah. Later God's people knew that upon return to the land after a lackluster exodus that the house of David would be restored and lead to the Messiah. Later they knew that the Messiah was going to overthrow the powers ruling over Israel and give Israel her independence. Later they knew that Domitian would be the last great antichrist. And today we know that we are going to return to the rule of the Papacy with Sunday laws all over the world and that Sunday laws will be effecting everyone, and that while the worldly governments are enforcing Sunday laws and  threatening to kill us if we don't comply with Sunday laws, we have an even higher more powerful government that is going to enforce the Sabbath and will kill you in eternal hell if you don't comply with the Sabbath.

I was going to say more here, but I think this is a good place to stop and think and discuss.

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The Wanderer
7 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

we have an even higher more powerful government that is going to enforce the Sabbath and will kill you in eternal hell if you don't comply with the Sabbath.

Does "the sabbath" really need to be "enforced," as in "keep it or you die?" I thought that "perfect love casts out ALL fear?" Why would God make us all scared to not keep the Sabbath like that?

Do you know where in the SDABC that article is that you referenced? I would like to read it. :)

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Kevin H

It is the volume that has like Isaiah, Jeremiah and the minor prophets. It is a very important article, and it would be well worth having a Sabbath School lesson on that article. Fortunately at Union Springs Academy we covered it in a Bible class, and at Atlantic Union College the religion and theology students had to read it and do a paper on it every semester, and the non-religion/theology majors still had to read it and do a paper on it for the Bible classes they took.

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Kevin H

Hey, I thought that I had left this open for more discussion and the sharing of other thoughts, hope people will come and share.

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JoeMo
On 11/30/2018 at 10:55 PM, Kevin H said:

And today we know that we are going to return to the rule of the Papacy with Sunday laws all over the world and that Sunday laws will be effecting everyone, and that while the worldly governments are enforcing Sunday laws and  threatening to kill us if we don't comply with Sunday laws, we have an even higher more powerful government that is going to enforce the Sabbath and will kill you in eternal hell if you don't comply with the Sabbath.

Only traditional SDA's "know" this.  I personally think the issues will be MUCH larger than this - like "who do you worship (in general) and who do you trust - the gods of this world or the One True God of heaven"?

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Kevin H

The context is how Satan has always played upon our traditions where we "know just what's going to happen." I was comparing this tradition in Adventism with the way Jews were so sure that the Messiah was going to be the most blessed person ever who was going  to overthrow the Romans.

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Gregory Matthews

In an effort to stimulate thought, I suggest that Kevin wrote in a  manner that some who do not consider it in depth will misunderstand what he actually wrote.

 

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B/W Photodude
On December 4, 2018 at 12:25 AM, Kevin H said:

The context is how Satan has always played upon our traditions where we "know just what's going to happen." I was comparing this tradition in Adventism with the way Jews were so sure that the Messiah was going to be the most blessed person ever who was going  to overthrow the Romans.

Many things are written in the Bible that those who do not really know will think they do and get it wrong. This includes even Adventists in the end time. "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:10 Hence, one would be wise to pay attention when Paul wrote, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor 10:12

The issue of the Jews not understanding the Messiah even when He walked among them intrigues me. They totally missed the meaning or what was happening at the first advent. I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood. Not sure if I even understand myself what is happening and am studying intensely to figure it out. Therefore, like the unbelievers in the temple at Jerusalem, when God speaks from heaven in the very end times, only His people will understand and to all the rest it will only sound like thunder. So, during summer storms and peels of thunder think about God speaking and it only sound like gibberish!

(Are you aware that the KJV uses the term "Take heed" 65 times thru the Bible?!)

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JoeMo
1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood.

I totally agree!  I don't think we will understand until (or maybe even after) the prophecies are fulfilled.  I won't put blinders on an believe only what the Great Controversy (or any other book except the Bible) has to say.  I work at keeping an open mind.

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B/W Photodude
On 12/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, B/W Photodude said:

I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood.

On 12/5/2018 at 5:26 PM, JoeMo said:

I totally agree!  I don't think we will understand until (or maybe even after) the prophecies are fulfilled.  I won't put blinders on an believe only what the Great Controversy (or any other book except the Bible) has to say.  I work at keeping an open mind.

While I made an allusion to end time prophecies, what I feel is not understood are not the end time prophecies, but issues related to what God wants to do within us and other parts of the whole Gospel message.

I hear all the time about God's grace and nothing more is needed from us, we can never be perfect and will be able to sin to the very moment Jesus returns, perhaps not all the beliefs of the SDA church are true or necessary, or any number of other things that get postulated in this and various other forums.

There are many facets to salvation that I believe will each one fit into a perfect coherent picture of what God wants us to see and know. Some of those pieces include things like:
    The Sanctuary message
    The repeated many times over in the New Testament "to be perfect"
    Having the mind of Christ or having Christ formed within us
    The calling out of a people to be a remnant people and Last Generation Theology (i.e., the 144,000)

I see so many things that get thrown out there, and they frequently lead me to remember this Bible text, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7 Then there is this text, "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Jeremiah 33:3 So God is willing to teach us and bring us into all truth, but some will always stumble in the darkness. Why?

So many strange things are going on in the world and in the church that just amaze me. When much younger, even as a child, it seemed so simple how it would end. But today, it has gotten so convoluted and the fighting in and out of the church amazes me. The fighting and rebellion within the church is even more amazing than what goes in the world, and within the church mirrors the world. In one place in the Old Testament, it spoke of the evil within the children of Israel and noted that the nations around them were amazed at how evil they had become. Given that many texts in Scripture seem to cover many situations, none fit better here than, "Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you." Habakkuk 1:5 I would have had difficulty believing if I saw written down what was to happen in the world and in our church today. So, I still feel that most of the church do not understand what is happening.

 

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The Wanderer
On 12/3/2018 at 10:25 PM, Kevin H said:

The context is how Satan has always played upon our traditions where we "know just what's going to happen." I was comparing this tradition in Adventism with the way Jews were so sure that the Messiah was going to be the most blessed person ever who was going  to overthrow the Romans.

Its a very convoluted subject at best now. So many theories out there now, all competing for top spot in our minds and hearts. We have somehow duped ourselves into thinking "prophecy" is simply "prediction" and many have come and gone with theories that they feel is above the rest; yet the whole point of prophecy is not dependent upon predictions or times or dates. Prophecy is, in effect, "HIS STORY."  Not history. When we understand prophecy in this way, then we have that testimony that will move the world, and be a personal testimony of our experience with Jesus. (1 John 1:1-3)  Will  "Sunday" be a part of that? Definitely; it already is. Many countries have "Blue Laws," and other cultural/religious practices that make life very difficult for those who want to keep the seventh-day Sabbath; and I am sure that the efforts of Vatican officials will eventually erupt into religious legislation. Its already in the process. Their doctrines support it very well. But regardless of our take on the "Sunday" thing; I think everyone could agree that Rev 3:10 is a warning about such legislation, on the international level. I believe that it may very well involve much more than just "Sunday."

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