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The Wanderer

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The Wanderer
2 hours ago, Lone Ranger said:

But shift your foot ever so slightly off "The Line" and they will behead you in a heartbeat. No organization on Earth turns on their wounded faster than the church.

There is definitely some truth - a lot actually to this. I recall another incident, again when i was an active duty Elder. I noticed a "fringe group" that were NOT Adventists out in the parking lot doing their thing with putting their rant literature on everyone's wind shield. When I went out to talk with them; I had no idea the following would happen; but it sure did. The reason I went out to talk to them, was not to set them straight, nor to tell them to stop what they were doing. They appeared genuinely shocked when I told them I d like to learn more about them and to discuss ways we could improve our relationship. We had a really great conversation in that general direction and I had actually gotten to the point where they were willing to sit down with a few of us just to have a friendly conversation and try to build on some common threads. When I got back into the sanctuary; the accusations started. I was accused of "belonging to them," and for months after, I was harassed and bullied because I was apparently "one of them."  A wise Pastor at the time told me I should just address it from the Pulpit, so we picked a day for me to do this, and it was truly an explosive Sabbath! lol But it did put the problem to rest

The unity in diversity fundamental belief we have is simply being refused by certain leadership. Like it or not, they bear much responsibility for the state of things here.

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JoeMo
7 hours ago, Lone Ranger said:

And you are surprised because...??

The church is great for those who show up with shiny, smiling faces and get out of nice cars and big trucks and (appear to) have their lives together and pay their tithes and give their offerings and say "The tithe is the Lords and this is our freewill offering. It is our job to give it and let the Lord worry about how it's spent" and don't ask ANY questions about ANYTHING and always follow the Quarterly and quote EGW first and then the (KJV) Bible next.

Not all SDA churches operate this way.  I don't pay anywhere near my full tithe to any conference; and my church doesn't ask me (or anyone else who practices the same thing) a thing about it.  I'd imagine that the church sends a portion of offerings marked "where needed most" or "church expense" to the Conference as tithe.  There is not a single SS Class at my church that teaches out of the quarterly; and I can't remember the last time EGW was mentioned from the pulpit.

It's a great church! Half the people that go there aren't even Adventist; they just go because they like how safe it is and how uplifting it is.  many are indifferent to different "personal theologies" or strict adherence to all 28 Fundies;  they are truly unified in their love for Christ and spreading His Gospel.Those who have taken the step of being baptized stay at church; and are accepted "true believers".  Most of them get a "job" as soon as they are baptized.  Everyone is expected to (and is happy to do) something.  Most folks feel safe talking about their "issues" and don't need a shiny smiling face to be cared about.  It is one of the VERY few SDA Churches that I would be comfortable inviting anyone - believer or not - to attend.

I realize that not all SDA churches embrace this kind of culture.  I've been to some.

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The Wanderer
28 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

It's a great church! Half the people that go there aren't even Adventist; they just go because they like how safe it is and how uplifting it is.  many are indifferent to different "personal theologies" or strict adherence to all 28 Fundies;

THAT can be a good thing at times; but it really depends upon the context. Some who attend a church (any church) just to get "fed" and "comforted" doom themselves to utter failure, because they KEEP the faith; rather than give it away, as did Jesus. I think its great that you are able to experience church this way. I can see how a dude like me would fit in perfectly, well, maybe...if I take the skull-cap off? There is an INVISIBLE FUNDY about dress and decorum you know. :)

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B/W Photodude
4 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

THAT can be a good thing at times; but it really depends upon the context. Some who attend a church (any church) just to get "fed" and "comforted" doom themselves to utter failure, because they KEEP the faith; rather than give it away, as did Jesus.

Heard a story about a new preacher in town. He asked one of the parishioners why they come to church. Apparently the preacher was really into service. The parishioner replied with the usual things like hear a good sermon, fellowship, etc. To this the preacher said, "so, you are on spiritual welfare!"

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The Wanderer
1 minute ago, B/W Photodude said:

Heard a story about a new preacher in town. He asked one of the parishioners why they come to church. Apparently the preacher was really into service. The parishioner replied with the usual things like hear a good sermon, fellowship, etc. To this the preacher said, "so, you are on spiritual welfare!"

wow! I like that! :)  Good one!

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B/W Photodude
44 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I don't pay anywhere near my full tithe to any conference; and my church doesn't ask me (or anyone else who practices the same thing) a thing about it. 

As my church's treasurer, who pays tithe and who doesn't is something I pay no attention to. Not part of the job. I do not know where people may be sending their tithes and offerings. I do know that we have people who send their tithes to our church from across the country. (Long story, don't ask!)

44 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I'd imagine that the church sends a portion of offerings marked "where needed most" or "church expense" to the Conference as tithe. 

Many in Appalachia are somewhat distrustful of outside organization and even the conference. Some mark everything "local" or church budget. Again, nothin to see here!

44 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

There is not a single SS Class at my church that teaches out of the quarterly; and I can't remember the last time EGW was mentioned from the pulpit.

We use the quarterly. Sometimes the quarters topic not so inspiring, but many times it is amazing the stuff we study together. I realize that some congregations may use just unstructed discussion or even some other book. This quarter, in particular, deals with a very germane topic to the problems in the church today.

Last time EGW mentioned from the pulpit not remembered? Really really sad. I don't approve of the tendency of some to use EGW more than the Bible, but if EGW is never mentioned from the pulpit, what a loss! You really have to decide on this. Was she nothing or was her message God inspired? And if inspired, what are you missing out on? I still believe that just like the Jews of the time of Jesus who were studying their sacred writings intently while the very answer to their studies walked unrecognized among them, most today will not know what God wants us to know today for the end times. Like the ancient spiritual leaders waiting for the Messiah to come, some may be waiting for that endtime prophet of Revelation who has already come and gone and the message was not heard.

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The Wanderer
20 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

Last time EGW mentioned from the pulpit not remembered? 

Check your compass! This is heading in the wrong direction! What JoeMo is talking about here is something much different than people who actively denounce and work against "the testimonies". It may be that people in his church are NOT the ones missing out on anything and that WE are the ones missing out because we dont read our Bibles half as much as we should!

Quote

We all need to study character and manner that we may know how to deal judiciously with different minds, that we may use our best endeavors to help them to a correct understanding of the Word of God, and to a true Christian life. We should read the Bible with them, and draw their minds away from temporal things to their eternal interests. It is the duty of God's children to be missionaries for Him, to become acquainted with those who need help. If one is staggering under temptation, his case should be taken up carefully and managed wisely; for his eternal interest is at stake, and the words and acts of those laboring for him may be a savor of life unto life, or of death unto death.--Testimonies, vol. 4, pp. 68, 69. (1876)  {Ev 352.2} 

 

Edited by The Wanderer

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B/W Photodude
3 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

 It may be that people in his church are NOT the ones missing out on anything and that WE are the ones missing out because we dont read our Bibles half as much as we should!

I would say that all, Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and even many books by church theologians are neglected. I see one word pop up frequently as I read regarding studying the Word of God and that word is "diligence." The Bible should be read far more than it is. And I believe that even EGW herself would say read the Bible more than her books. It is something that has been strained severely by the attractions of life today.

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Lone Ranger
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Not all SDA churches operate this way.  I don't pay anywhere near my full tithe to any conference; and my church doesn't ask me (or anyone else who practices the same thing) a thing about it.  I'd imagine that the church sends a portion of offerings marked "where needed most" or "church expense" to the Conference as tithe.  There is not a single SS Class at my church that teaches out of the quarterly; and I can't remember the last time EGW was mentioned from the pulpit.

It's a great church! Half the people that go there aren't even Adventist; they just go because they like how safe it is and how uplifting it is.  many are indifferent to different "personal theologies" or strict adherence to all 28 Fundies;  they are truly unified in their love for Christ and spreading His Gospel.Those who have taken the step of being baptized stay at church; and are accepted "true believers".  Most of them get a "job" as soon as they are baptized.  Everyone is expected to (and is happy to do) something.  Most folks feel safe talking about their "issues" and don't need a shiny smiling face to be cared about.  It is one of the VERY few SDA Churches that I would be comfortable inviting anyone - believer or not - to attend.

I realize that not all SDA churches embrace this kind of culture.  I've been to some.

Like Ponce de Leon and the Fountain of Youth, I have heard legends of churches like this.

Rumors, really, I think.

I have never seen one.

No one I know has seen one.

One day, before I die, I would like to see one.

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JoeMo
17 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I can see how a dude like me would fit in perfectly, well, maybe...if I take the skull-cap off?

I don't think anyone would notice the skull cap among all the tattoos and piercings.  Lots of younger people in our church.  One of the few SDA churches I've attended that is not overloaded with senior citizens.

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JoeMo
16 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Last time EGW mentioned from the pulpit not remembered?

She's still mentioned plenty in SS classes and small groups.  One SS group uses the Controversy series instead of the quarterly.   Even though the words "Ellen White" aren't used, the favorite SDA "code words" for EGW are heard ("my favorite author")

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JoeMo
15 hours ago, Lone Ranger said:

No one I know has seen one.

One day, before I die, I would like to see one.

Even though we never met, we know each other.  I haven't just seen a church like this, I worship at one.  If you want to see it, come to Denver and I'll take you.

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The Wanderer
2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Even though we never met, we know each other.  I haven't just seen a church like this, I worship at one.  If you want to see it, come to Denver and I'll take you.

See?  I knew this thread would be of help at some point! Already someone has been invited to Church! :)

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