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La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

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B/W Photodude

It is often claimed that women being ordained to the ministry will be followed up by push for LGBT+ acceptance. Then you see it happening right before your very eyes!

La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

Called the ‘Kinship Sabbath School’, La Sierra University Church hosts a class for LGBT and allies.  It is billed as a “safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study and spiritual growth.”

No word yet on whether they have a special class for thieves, idolaters or extortioners and their allies (1 Cor 6:9-10). One person is wondering when a class for pedophiles will happen! Hey! their feelings matter too.

http://www.fulcrum7.com/news/2019/4/10/la-sierra-university-church-has-a-sabbath-school-for-homosexuals

Kinship Sabbath School
Room 30 (hallway behind sanctuary)
For LGBT+ and Allies. A safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study, and spiritual growth.

https://lasierra.church/bible-study/

One reader's comment:
Also, I'm sure it's "just a coincidence" that the lead pastor is a woman. Indeed, the lead pastor is a woman!
https://lasierra.church/pastoral-staff/

Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. Isaiah 1:9-10

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. Isaiah 3:12

So, again, I sit here watching this all unfold in more wicked ways than I ever imagined when I was much younger. Funny thing is, it is just so much like the Old Testament stories of the kings of Israel and Judah falling in and out of favor with God. And the nations around them marveled at their wickedness. Just read about one king who I thought followed God, but went out to war with a neighboring king. He then brought back their idols and bowed down to them!

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The Wanderer
56 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

So, again, I sit here watching this all unfold in more wicked ways than I ever imagined

OK Lets start by asking the following question: "Have you ever told a lie in the past year?"

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B/W Photodude
1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

OK Lets start by asking the following question: "Have you ever told a lie in the past year?"

That is the usual beginning of a Baptist trying to get someone to convert!

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The Wanderer
1 minute ago, B/W Photodude said:

That is the usual beginning of a Baptist trying to get someone to convert!

Is that a yes or a no? lol (dont worry. this will be fun) :D

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B/W Photodude

I am still sorting thru the full indepth meaning of honesty is. But an outright knowledgeable verbal statement of mistruth, probably no. But if you include stating that everything is fine as to not unload a bunch of stuff on someone who just asks a social question and not expecting a genuine answer, then yes. I really hate stating falsehoods, plus, I am just not good at it!

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The Wanderer
4 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

I am still sorting thru the full indepth meaning of honesty is. But an outright knowledgeable verbal statement of mistruth, probably no. But if you include stating that everything is fine as to not unload a bunch of stuff on someone who just asks a social question and not expecting a genuine answer, then yes. I really hate stating falsehoods, plus, I am just not good at it!

white lies are still lies. Therefore, they shouldnt have sabbath school classes for you either. Liars will NOT be welcome in heaven.

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B/W Photodude
1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

white lies are still lies. Therefore, they shouldnt have sabbath school classes for you either. Liars will NOT be welcome in heaven.

But no one in my Sabbath school class "affirms" lying of any color. Apparently the part of "affirming" LGBT+ behavior got lost. I have no doubt that the ultimate end of this whole movement will be to make it as acceptable to engage in that practice as normal hetero behavior. That is also why the sentence No word yet on whether they have a special class for thieves, idolaters or extortioners and their allies (1 Cor 6:9-10). was included. There wan't really enough space to list all the "affirming" Sabbath school classes that could be held to soothe the hurt feelings of all the different kinds of evil doings there are.

The other thing I have stated before is that no one locks the doors and prevents LGBT+ souls from entering. But it is unreasonable to be "affirmed" in your sins. That is also a lie of a great magnitude to leave someone to believe they can do wrong and still be just alright with God. Their blood will be on your hands.

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

The other thing I have stated before is that no one locks the doors and prevents LGBT+ souls from entering. But it is unreasonable to be "affirmed" in your sins.

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts1 of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)

How do we "witness" to all the people we say need the gospel, when they all avoid coming through those doors you say "no one locks" because they know the ice-cold attitude they will get, should they dare to come in and sit down with the Sabbath School Class?

Quote

"The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God's people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what."  {GW 298.1}

If anyone reading this happens to belong to a shrinking church, it might be worth noting here how/why that happens. IMO we have far too many "rules" that would prohibit all manner of "sinners" or "sins" except, usually for our own. How on earth can gay people, or anyone else who is not "one of us" ( ) learn the gospel if we dont start inviting them into our churches and making them feel welcome?

In relation to the Sabbath School Class,we have the following very wise counsel (by a woman no less!!)
 

Quote

 

A Marvelous Power for Good

Our Sabbath schools are nothing less than Bible societies, and in the sacred work of teaching the truths of God's word, they can accomplish far more than they have hitherto accomplished. The Sabbath school, when rightly managed, possesses marvelous power, and is adapted to doing a great work, but it is not now [WRITTEN IN 1889] what it may and should be. The influence growing out of Sabbath school work should improve and enlarge the church; but in no case should it ever be allowed to divert from the interests of the church. There is a most precious missionary field in the Sabbath school, and if there are now omens of good, they are only indications and beginnings of what may be done. {CSW 9.2}

 

Sooooo, how can our sabbath school classes possibly be THE MAIN MISSIONARY effort of the church, if we have a huge list of "certain types" that cant come? EVERYONE who does come deserves "affirmation" and that has nothing to do with "agreeing" with the lifestyle and/or belief.

Quote

The Sabbath school should be one of the greatest instrumentalities, and the most effectual, in bringing souls to Christ.--TSS 20.  {CSW 10.2}

Gays, Satanists, Warlocks, Magicians, men in tutus, women in suit jackets, addicts, smokers, drinkers, or whatever should be made to feel welcome; and the only reason they are NOT coming in those doors you say "are not locked" is because they actually are locked! People are not stupid and they know when they are not wanted. The church simply has decided they dont want people coming in the doors that have a mind of their own and ask questions they would have to work too hard to "answer."

Quote

The Sabbath school is an important branch of the missionary work, not only because it gives to young and old a knowledge of God's word, but because it awakens in them a love for its sacred truths, and a   desire to study them for themselves; above all, it teaches them to regulate their lives by its holy teachings.--TSS 109, 110.  {CSW 10.4}

Its a sad thing to have to admit but I have had times where I felt it safer to just go to the church service, as then I could avoid the closer "scrutiny" of the SS Class, and sit at the back and make my exit before the last hymn was finished. You'd be surprised how many people go through something like that.

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Gustave

It's just a way for the homosexuals to "get acquainted" with one another for the "fun" that happens later.

This is no different than a "gay bar", or a "gay cruise", a "gay dating website", etc. By  offering it THIS WAY the leadership can "nudge" peoples view of homosexuality being more natural and wholesome ( like what's wrong with a  "Spanish Sabbath School Class" ). 

 

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The Wanderer
33 minutes ago, Gustave said:

It's just a way for the homosexuals to "get acquainted" with one another for the "fun" that happens later.

This is no different than a "gay bar", or a "gay cruise", a "gay dating website", etc. By  offering it THIS WAY the leadership can "nudge" peoples view of homosexuality being more natural and wholesome ( like what's wrong with a  "Spanish Sabbath School Class" ). 

 

Well, I would disagree with that. I suppose it does happen, but if so, it doesnt mean thats the way it would be in every, or even in most cases. My point here is that from my current understanding of the way our church teaches on the general subject of how to conduct our "sabbath school classes"  we should be doing things in a way that does reach out to specific groups and cultures. If someone has the heart and the aptitude to work with a certain group, what would be a biblical reason for refusing to minister to that group? All that does is to set the stage for stigma, disparagement, etc. I think we could all agree that Jesus made a special point of ministering to such, even ate with them. In fact, Jesus preferred their company, as evidenced by who He spent time with and why. I am reminded of the time when I was once observed just talking to an "outlaw" group who had assembled in the parking lot of one of our churches. I was immediately accused of "being one of them;" and it took many months for me to convince them that I wasnt. I was just asking them if they wanted to join our Sabbath school class that morning. How on earth do we stigmatize a people group, plus "minister" to them in the same breath? Why dont we do the same for liars and adulterers?

Quote

By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. (Heb 11:31)

 

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Gustave
56 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Well, I would disagree with that. I suppose it does happen, but if so, it doesnt mean thats the way it would be in every, or even in most cases. My point here is that from my current understanding of the way our church teaches on the general subject of how to conduct our "sabbath school classes"  we should be doing things in a way that does reach out to specific groups and cultures. If someone has the heart and the aptitude to work with a certain group, what would be a biblical reason for refusing to minister to that group? All that does is to set the stage for stigma, disparagement, etc. I think we could all agree that Jesus made a special point of ministering to such, even ate with them. In fact, Jesus preferred their company, as evidenced by who He spent time with and why. I am reminded of the time when I was once observed just talking to an "outlaw" group who had assembled in the parking lot of one of our churches. I was immediately accused of "being one of them;" and it took many months for me to convince them that I wasnt. I was just asking them if they wanted to join our Sabbath school class that morning. How on earth do we stigmatize a people group, plus "minister" to them in the same breath? Why dont we do the same for liars and adulterers?

 

I could have worded what I said better.

I'm all about reaching out to different cultures however can we categorize homosexuality as a "culture"? I have a difficult time viewing bestiality "as a culture". Now, I'm not  drawing a moral equivalence between homosexuality and bestiality in a secular or social context - I'm attempting to do it in a religious context. 

I'll be the first one to admit that in the end it's very possible that I may not get past the Particular Judgement and a gay person could so I'm not saying that being gay disqualifies someone from salvation at all. All I'm saying is that both the Old & New Covenant speak ill of homosexuality 

"If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them". Leviticus 20, 13

"For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.  And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error". Romans 1, 26-27

"Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God". 1 Corinthians 6, 9-10

How would you feel if the Church started offering a Sabbath School for extortioners, drunkards, thieves. I would be ALL FOR reaching out to everyone, regardless of what they struggle with. All I'm saying is that there has been a TREND to justify behavior condemned by Scripture and the Historic understanding of the Christian Church. 

There are now several churches that started out doing stuff like this and now they have openly gay Pastors who proudly bugger their partners while preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus. We have several "queer churches" here in the Seattle area and from what I gather there isn't any effort whatsoever to refrain from homosexual acts because it's been normalized to the degree anyone who questions it is accused of being a bigot or homophobe. This is happening all around us and it's gaining momentum. 

 

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JoeMo
17 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

La Sierra University Church Now Has a Sabbath School For Homosexuals

I actually have no problem with this.  LGBTQ+ people need Jesus as well.  There are many gays who consider themselves Christians; and who have suffered great discrimination from straight people and much personal shame for their "deviate" behavior.  If a gay person can't turn to Jesus for help, who can they turn to?

Every church has a SS class and worship service for liars, lusters, and gossips.  Many in this demographic are even elders and pastors.  I would even venture to say a majority of Christians fit into this category.  Who can they turn to but Jesus for forgiveness?  I would propose that it is easier for people to stop these sins than it is for a truly gay person to become straight.

I'm not implying that gays should be pastors, elders, or Conference Presidents; or that our churches should sanction gay marriage.  But we should welcome anyone seeking a relationship with Christ; and let the HS do the rest.

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JoeMo

In Romans 1:28-32, Paul lists 20 other sins besides homosexuality that will keep one out of the Kingdom.  I would venture to say that most (if not all) of us have had problems with one or more sins on this list.  If everyone who had willfully committed any of these sins were excluded from fellowship, our churches would be pretty empty.

"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

So let's not put all of our focus on LGBTQ+.

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Gregory Matthews

FYI,  there are many SDA congregations in the U.S. that allow any group that wants to have a Sabbath School Class, to have such.  In that process, that class is typically allowed to study whatever they want to study, which  often is not the official lesson.

I do not believe that we should think that the LSU class is dedicated to promoting the idea that the practice of homosexuality is acceptable in Christian life.  Rather, it is probably simply a class where  people who deal with the issue of homosexuality may associate in a Bible study environment.

NOTE:  I wonder how many people commenting in this thread have actually attended that class?  Yes, I have not.

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The Wanderer
44 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

most (if not all) of us have had problems with one or more sins on this list.

I agree! Thats my whole point! Why do we pride ourselves, (pun intended) for singling out "other sins" but not our own?

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B/W Photodude

The elder in my church has a favorite illustration. He says, "the devil will dance you all around the cross, but you will never see Jesus." I tend to think that about many of the threads here. Many discussions will wander all over the place except to seriously consider what the OP was even about!

I get it that there is many other sins that people struggle with. But AGAIN, there are no Sabbath school classes for those who engage in such sins as extortion, lying, coveting to go to to be affirmed! The point of the relationship of LGBT+ issues and WO was part of the OP, but let's dance around and not see that!

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JoeMo
2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I get it that there is many other sins that people struggle with. But AGAIN, there are no Sabbath school classes for those who engage in such sins as extortion, lying, coveting to go to to be affirmed!

Do you know for a fact that this SS affirms homosexuality; or is it a class for people who are struggling with it?  Have you "checked it out", or are you just spouting what you have read?  I know several Christians who are attracted to the same gender who are celibate - they do not participate in homosexual activity.  They would love to attend a "normal" church, but are afraid they would be rejected. I know two who have left Adventism cuz they were rejected at every SDA Church they attended (sad). They are still Christian, but no longer Adventists.  Again, sad.

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The Wanderer
1 minute ago, JoeMo said:

Do you know for a fact that this SS affirms homosexuality; or is it a class for people who are struggling with it?  Have you "checked it out", or are you just spouting what you have read?  I know several Christians who are attracted to the same gender who are celibate - they do not participate in homosexual activity.  They would love to attend a "normal" church, but are afraid they would be rejected. I know two who have left Adventism cuz they were rejected at every SDA Church they attended (sad). They are still Christian, but no longer Adventists.  Again, sad.

OK here is THE thing when it comes to this subject. People who are "oriented" differently should NOT be treated any differently than any other sinner in the church; and yet they are. Some guilty of adultery seem to think its OK for them to condemn other "sins" as long as the finger doesnt point to them The church does this with more than just gay people.

Quote

the Christian will make no plans that God cannot approve   MH-359

 

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The Wanderer
23 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Kinship Sabbath School
Room 30 (hallway behind sanctuary)
For LGBT+ and Allies. A safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study, and spiritual growth.

https://lasierra.church/bible-study/

there is nothing in this link that proves "homosexuality" is being "affirmed." It does appear that PEOPLE are being affirmed. And that is a big difference. I would need more info before I could come close to the same conclusion as you appear to be broaching here.

Quote

high position does not give us value in the sight of God 9T-274

 

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The Wanderer
19 hours ago, Gustave said:

It's just a way for the homosexuals to "get acquainted" with one another for the "fun" that happens later.

This is no different than a "gay bar", or a "gay cruise", a "gay dating website", etc. By  offering it THIS WAY the leadership can "nudge" peoples view of homosexuality being more natural and wholesome ( like what's wrong with a  "Spanish Sabbath School Class" ).

I had to wait for a bit to settle myself down some before attempting to give this the answer it deserves. Now I value your participation on this forum, and even feel that we have become friends, however, this type of comment hits me as very  discriminatory and even homophobic.  "get aquainted" and "fun that comes later" is deliberate disparagement that could not be justified by scripture, and the ways that scripture describe how Christians are to minister to the community at large. Banal stigma and affronted mentioning of an entire group of people based on our supposed ideas of their motives in coming to church dont fit with how Jesus did His ministry to the very people we are saying should not be "affirmed" if they have the courage to look past all of our baloney and come in the church doors. Why do we expect the church to treat us any better, as if our sin is better than their's?

An aside: There are tons of heterosexuals who come to church to "get acquainted" for "the fun" that comes later. Some of the true tales I could tell there, cannot be posted on the forum. Its time for us to put away our "gospel whips" and try a little of the "water of life."

Quote

Duty, stern duty has a twin sister, which is kindness. If duty and kindness are blended, there will be decided advantage gained; but if duty is separated from kindness, and there is not mingled with duty tender love, there will be a failure, and much harm will be the result. Men and women will not be driven. Many can be won by kindness and love. Bro. Waggoner has held aloft the gospel whip, and his own words have frequently been the snap to that whip, which has not had the influence to spur others to greater zeal, and provoke to good works; but has aroused their combativeness to repel his severity.  {PH159 135.2} 

God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:2-3)

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The Wanderer
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

The elder in my church has a favorite illustration. He says, "the devil will dance you all around the cross, but you will never see Jesus."

well, when we stop and think through some of these kinds of common saying we all think are "OK," it becomes quite a different matter. In another topic I started on the forum "This Commandment Have I Received"  Posted   I pointed out how we as christians seem so pleased with ourselves because we 'come to the cross," and yes, when we look at the cross, we do see  Jesus. BUT what happens, when we, like Jesus did when He hung on the cross, turn ourselves around and look at what Jesus saw as He hung there dying for all the ones we condemn? We see all the people that we wont let into our church, for fear of "affirming" them, as did Jesus anyway!

In the sabbath school class setting, the way I did it with people when I was a teacher, was to make an effort to give them the same responses and mannerisms I would give the Pastor, when he sat in the class a couple of times.

When we are speaking to any other person, in our witness for Christ, it will become apparent by attitude, posture, and deference, that we hold them as did Jesus, in esteem.

Quote

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  (Phil 2:3-5)

Those who . . . rely upon Christ will be enabled to act wisely at all times 5T-43

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The Wanderer
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Do you know for a fact that this SS affirms homosexuality; or is it a class for people who are struggling with it? 

I am reminded of the reactions of abject horror when I was once working at an AIDS Hospice, and I "had the nerve" to hug one of the guys lying in his bed, breathing His last breath. Its the same thing for Sabbath School class, we call one who we like, or who like us or who agree with us,  "brother" or "sister"  but ones not "oriented" the same as us...some of whom may be on their last, spiritual breath,  we ruin their last chance because we wont give them the chance that Jesus would.  We SHOULD BE recognizing/affirming each member of the sabbath school class as a human being, like us, who has worth, value, and needs that we can affirm, without agreeing with their pet sin. Why do we find ourselves so often saying that our sin is better than their's?

Quote

let us work in harmony with our prayers 5T-714

 

Edited by The Wanderer

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Gustave
2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I had to wait for a bit to settle myself down some before attempting to give this the answer it deserves. Now I value your participation on this forum, and even feel that we have become friends, however, this type of comment hits me as very  discriminatory and even homophobic.  "get aquainted" and "fun that comes later" is deliberate disparagement that could not be justified by scripture, and the ways that scripture describe how Christians are to minister to the community at large. Banal stigma and affronted mentioning of an entire group of people based on our supposed ideas of their motives in coming to church dont fit with how Jesus did His ministry to the very people we are saying should not be "affirmed" if they have the courage to look past all of our baloney and come in the church doors. Why do we expect the church to treat us any better, as if our sin is better than their's?

An aside: There are tons of heterosexuals who come to church to "get acquainted" for "the fun" that comes later. Some of the true tales I could tell there, cannot be posted on the forum. Its time for us to put away our "gospel whips" and try a little of the "water of life."

God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:2-3)

I feel the same way about you. 

I'm looking at this from the perspective that I'm not any better than a gay individual. I'm only saying that offering a separate class for  individuals who have trouble with a particular sin mitigates against calling it out for what it is. These gay folks are no different than you or me, they're human beings with the same fears, hopes and troubles everyone has so why would they need to be sequestered off into a special or "different" camp when it comes time for Sunday School? 

In my understanding being gay ISN'T a sin at all - it's no different than a heterosexual person who lusts after a member of the opposite sex. I understand that there still is a stigma of being gay - I get that but at the end of the day when folks realize we are all in as much danger of hell for my our sins as a gay person is for theirs we can sit together and try to encourage each other to resist our impulses for whatever sin it is that we struggle against. This is what I'm saying. 

 

 

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B/W Photodude
On 4/14/2019 at 6:32 PM, B/W Photodude said:

Kinship Sabbath School
Room 30 (hallway behind sanctuary)
For LGBT+ and Allies. A safe and affirming space for fellowship, Bible study, and spiritual growth.

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

there is nothing in this link that proves "homosexuality" is being "affirmed." It does appear that PEOPLE are being affirmed.

OK, here is a clue! Look at the name of the SS - Kinship Sabbath School. Couldn't be that they have anything to sdakinship? You can go to their website <  sdakinship.org  > and see if you can find anything that suggests that they do not "affirm" homosexuality. In fact, you will find that they make a great effort to twist the Scriptures to make it appear that it is acceptable. They also try to make it appear that Ellen White was accepting of it or at least did not disapprove. There is nothing there to suggest that if you are SSA you should remain celibate. In fact, just the opposite. They even have a section for bisexuals. Now, consider if you are attracted to both sexes, then to accomplish that you have to be having multiple partners which suggests fornication. So, thank-you , but I will stick by my earlier opinion that this "sabbath school" is all about trying to support same sex attraction and behavior in the Seventh-day Adventist church. And I also still see the connection between the WO and the LGBT+ issues.

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B/W Photodude

🎼🎶 I said over and over and over again ... 🎵🎶

It seems this always gets back to feelings somehow, that because someone is emotionally bound up in some belief about how they are that you can change the Bible ( Forgot! Kinship says that the Bible doesn't say that!). So, if you are not going to give in to it, you must suffer. Well, well. Everyone must suffer for some desires of the flesh. it is our life in this world until we are remade in the image of Jesus. This is part of that picking up your cross and following Him. Paul talks on similar themes a lot. He says we are scarcely saved. Jesus suffered everyday of His life on earth denying the temptations of the flesh and the temptations of Satan. But He did it. We do not know what His private temptations were, but we do know that He knows all of our temptations.

The good news is, by Jesus abiding in us, our characters, desires, thoughts, feelings, motives become like His. We live His life. Eventually, no matter what our "cross to bear" is, we become like Jesus. There is a statement in Christ Object Lessons to the effect that if we surrender our wills to Him, He will give our wills back to us perfect. To not believe that Jesus can heal us of all imperfections is to be in unbelief. There is also a statement in the NT that unbelievers will go to destruction. Just sayin'. Did read all of this in the Scriptures and SOP.

 

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