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hch

Who's fooling who?

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B/W Photodude
8 minutes ago, Lone Ranger said:

If you don't like it be the bigger Christian and ignore my posts. 

That doesn't work well in the flow of a thread, especially when you start quoting someone they will want to know the response. Also not really friendly to put the burden on someone else to ignore and/or move around one's bad behavior. The first response could have been followed by a "sorry, I misinterpreted what you said." then we could be all done.

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Lone Ranger
5 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

That doesn't work well in the flow of a thread, especially when you start quoting someone they will want to know the response. Also not really friendly to put the burden on someone else to ignore and/or move around one's bad behavior. The first response could have been followed by a "sorry, I misinterpreted what you said." then we could be all done.

You drew first blood. 

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hch

Rightly Dividing God’s Word

What do you know? When did you learn it? Was it something that someone taught you or something that you learned through diligent research? (Both have their place.)

In 2011, from studying the book of Revelation, I learned that Benedict XVI would not be pope in 2013. I tweeted that insight eight times from September 2011 to September 2012

Pope Benedict XVI has but a very short time left (9/3/11)

#Pope Benedict XVI marks his last year with a Latin America trip that includes a visit to #Cuba (23 March 2012)

With Benedict XVI in his last year,

Who’s going to be the new pope? … (3 April 2012)

Is Pope Benedict going to be pope in 2013? (29 April 2012)

Months ago I tweeted that pope Benedict XVI is a short timer. Now Vatican power play is news! Y u b last 2 know? (28 May 2012)

If Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th, his time ends before May 2013 (7 July 2012)

Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th, because his ascension year was John-Paul II’s last year. Will Benedict XVI’s 7th year B his last (8 August 2012)

Pope #Benedict XVI As I read Daniel’s prophecy, 7’s number of completeness. His ascension year (zero) 2005.

He might last till spring 2013? (30 September 2012)

Pope Benedict announced this morning (Monday February 11, 2013) that he is resigning as of 28 February 2013.

With each successive tweet, my ever-growing awareness expanded. Though I understood that the prophecy identified the short duration of Benedict’s reign, there was much that I did not fully understand until the prophecy was fulfilled.

I was unaware that Steve Quayle and Tom Horn also said that Pope Benedict XVI would leave office before the fact. We came to the same conclusion quite differently: I studied Daniel and Revelation, while they used the Malachy list, “published by a Benedictine monk Arnold Wion in 1595.”[1] Wion was a contemporary of Nostradamus (1503-1566). Note Ellen White’s comment and the timing of Wion’s publication:

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But Satan was not idle. He now attempted what he has attempted in every other reformatory movement, —to deceive and destroy the people by palming off upon them a counterfeit in place of the true work. As there were false christs in the first century of the Christian church, so there arose false prophets in the sixteenth century.[2]

Were you expecting Benedict XVI to leave office before it happened in 2013? Satan was! He understood it in the 16th century (1595). Was your pastor or tv guru teaching the Present Truth to prepare you for what is ahead? Are they prayerfully studying Bible prophecy to learn what is coming? Or are they relying on erroneous prophetic teachings?

Without some understanding of the meaning of Bible prophecy, it would have been impossible for me to accurately tweet before Benedict XVI resigned that he has a short time left (9/3/11 & May 2012); that 2012 is his last year (March & April 2012); that his time ends before May 2013 (July 2012); and he might last till spring 2013 (9/30/12). The more I prayerfully study prophecy, the more I understand it. My knowledge increased! Benedict was a short timer. His last year to head the papacy was 2012. He resigned before May 2013, and he did not last in office until the spring 2013.

After I partially understood Pope Benedict XVI’s place in Bible prophecy, and declared the prophetic fulfilment before it came about, a friend dogmatically told me “Popes are not in Bible prophecy!” If that friend’s understanding were true, it would not be written “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things” (Daniel 7:8).

Another friend advised: “Prophecy isn’t so much about us seeing the future, but when it comes to pass, we can know God is in charge and believe.” How can the fulfillment of prophecy confirm our belief that God is in charge if we do not at least partially grasp the meaning of Bible prophecy when it is fulfilled? Though God revealed that Benedict XVI would only continue for a short space, centuries before he reigned, who could know that Pope Benedict XVI fulfilled prophecy if they did not have any idea that the prophecy was about him? And with Satan’s counterfeit prophecy being so close to Bible prophecy, how are we to discern what really is TRUTH?

Both friends were explaining away something that they did not understand rather than to look a little closer. All would do well to guard our influence for God’s cause or our influence will not be “in union with the Spirit and work of God.” Those who fail on this point “are not going forward but backward. The opinions of unbelievers are having too great an influence” upon our minds.[3] Everything of a character to cause our brethren to be diverted from the very points now essential for this time should be kept in the background.[4]

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The great crisis is just before us. To meet its trials and temptations, and to perform its duties, will require persevering faith. But we may triumph gloriously; not one watching, praying, believing soul will be ensnared by the enemy.[5]


[2] GC88 186.1, ed

[3] UL 300.3

[4] 15MR 21.2, ed

[5] GCB, July 1, 1902 par. 13

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Lone Ranger

Is the "you" in this post a generic "you" or is it directed to someone specific? 

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JoeMo
1 hour ago, hch said:

I was unaware that Steve Quayle and Tom Horn also said that Pope Benedict XVI would leave office before the fact. We came to the same conclusion quite differently:

hch,

I am also a fan of Tom Horn; and I read his prediction in "The Final Roman Emperor, The Islamic Antichrist, and the Vatican's Last Crusade" by Tom Horn and Cris Putnam.  I thought of you when I read it.  Have you also read anything by Michael Heiser or Gary Wayne?

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hch
22 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

I am also a fan of Tom Horn; and I read his prediction in "The Final Roman Emperor, The Islamic Antichrist, and the Vatican's Last Crusade" by Tom Horn and Cris Putnam.  I thought of you when I read it.  Have you also read anything by Michael Heiser or Gary Wayne?

No, I never heard of them until I read your comment above.

My primary sources are the Bible and Spirit of prophecy. 

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B/W Photodude
8 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Certainly we will be held accountable for any rejection of an attempt by the  Holy Spirit to teach us.  If we refuse to be taught by the Holy Spirit, that is a rejection of God.

But, my salvation does not in any way depend upon my lack of study in a direction that does not come from the Holy Spirit.  If the Holy Spirit does not lead me to study the Satanic Bible, my failure to study that book will not result in my loss of salvation.

In the same sense, if the Holy Spirit does not lead me to study a message from HCH, my failure to study his message will not lead to my loss of my salvation.

I would say we are only to study that which is of the Bible and other Holy Spirit inspired writers. I do not believe we are obligated to study the works of everyone who comes along claiming "special light," especially when they have a track record of failure. Here is two quotes I found in a paper I am working on:

It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the Scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light and encourage others to follow his example. We should day by day study the Bible diligently, weighing every thought and comparing scripture with scripture. With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. – {GC 598.2}

Those who have access to the words written in Scripture are without excuse if they do not apply these words to themselves, if they do not thus cleanse their hearts from sin. By the lights shining from the throne of God upon our pathway, we shall be judged at the last great day.... – {Upward Look 159.3}

All that said, will there be those in heaven who were not able to study deeply the Scriptures? The thief on the cross is a good example. Doubt he had that much study of Scriptures in the past. So, it can be done. However, he really is an exception. The vast majority of the population, at least in "Christianized" countries know about Jesus and the Bible but fail to take it serious. This will be to their ruin. 

I would further submit that if you have neglected to diligently study the Scriptures then you do not really know Jesus and will be one of those He will not know in the judgement. If you are standing for yourself without the covering of the righteousness of Jesus, you will have to answer for your neglect of Scripture.

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hch
9 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

I would say we are only to study that which is of the Bible and other Holy Spirit inspired writers. I do not believe we are obligated to study the works of everyone who comes along claiming "special light," especially when they have a track record of failure. Here is two quotes I found in a paper I am working on...

I would further submit that if you have neglected to diligently study the Scriptures then you do not really know Jesus and will be one of those He will not know in the judgement. If you are standing for yourself without the covering of the righteousness of Jesus, you will have to answer for your neglect of Scripture.

That pretty well goes along with the 1843 experience among those waiting for the Lord's Advent. They committed to the message that had  brought so much joy and anticipation; and when Christ did not come as they had expected, many turned aside in unbelief calling the message and the messengers false prophets and so much worse. Surely those folks that preached the false message couldn't know Jesus.

There was total confusion. Many did not know what or who to believe. And those that thought that they had been lied to took the position "you fooled me once in 1843, I won't be so gullible to even hear this 1844 message." Others who had believed the 1844 message then fell away as the earlier ones had done when their hopes were also dashed when Jesus failed to come.

Of perhaps 50,000 believers, only a few remained (perhaps 50 more or less) to study the truth that the Holy Spirit was pleased to give them. When they found the Sanctuary message and an understanding about how they had gone wrong, those that had fallen away were generally not interested. NOBODY WHO HAD BEEN WRONG TWICE WAS GOING TO GET A THIRD CHANCE TO TRICK THEM! Back peddling pure and simple!

Imagine this scenario: Those who will fall away in the endtime probably won't get fooled by any "special light" that is called the truth unless it is nothing but the truth. They won't be fooled by correct prophetic interpretation, near misses, or getting somethings right when everything is not perfect all he time. Having to go back to the Bible to study and study and pray when something is not rightly understood 'is a definite proof that it is not of God.' No sir, most folks today are too smart to follow any teaching that does not have everything right up front the first time out of the gate and every time thereafter. This going back to the Bible after the prophecy that was just fulfilled and learning from what was anticipated in comparison to what happened is not how God has led His people in our past history.

It is as if people expected Bible students to be infallible. Why that would make Bible teachers God (He is the only one that is infallible). 

Jeremiah once heard Hananiah give a message in the temple that contradicted Jeremiah's message, but Jeremiah praised God and said  let it come to pass. Then God gave Jeremiah more understanding that Hananiah's message was not from God. So after Jeremiah had approved the false message, he had to correct the false prophet and pronounce his doom.  (cf Jeremiah 28)

It is easier to look back at prophecy fulfilled, than to distinguish between truth and error when the prophesied events are happening in front of our eyes.

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phkrause
15 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I would say we are only to study that which is of the Bible and other Holy Spirit inspired writers. I do not believe we are obligated to study the works of everyone who comes along claiming "special light," especially when they have a track record of failure. Here is two quotes I found in a paper I am working on:

It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the Scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light and encourage others to follow his example. We should day by day study the Bible diligently, weighing every thought and comparing scripture with scripture. With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. – {GC 598.2}

Those who have access to the words written in Scripture are without excuse if they do not apply these words to themselves, if they do not thus cleanse their hearts from sin. By the lights shining from the throne of God upon our pathway, we shall be judged at the last great day.... – {Upward Look 159.3}

All that said, will there be those in heaven who were not able to study deeply the Scriptures? The thief on the cross is a good example. Doubt he had that much study of Scriptures in the past. So, it can be done. However, he really is an exception. The vast majority of the population, at least in "Christianized" countries know about Jesus and the Bible but fail to take it serious. This will be to their ruin. 

I would further submit that if you have neglected to diligently study the Scriptures then you do not really know Jesus and will be one of those He will not know in the judgement. If you are standing for yourself without the covering of the righteousness of Jesus, you will have to answer for your neglect of Scripture.

I'm in agreement!!

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JoeMo
16 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

I would say we are only to study that which is of the Bible and other Holy Spirit inspired writers. I do not believe we are obligated to study the works of everyone who comes along claiming "special light,"

Coming from 15 years of Church shopping an the 1970's and 80's, I have been a Catholic, a heathen, a JW, a Worldwide Church of God, a charismatic, and an SDA.  I have learned great spiritual lessons from all of them; but I ended up an SDA because these other churches had things you were required to believe to be a member in good standing that I had to reject because of diligent Bible Study.  I have stayed an SDA because they allow people more freedom in what to believe and not believe.  I choose not to accept everything EGW says unless I can verify it in scripture. That being said, I appreciate about 95% of what she says; but not 100%.  I do consider her to be an inspired writer, along with people like Billy Graham, Chuck Missler, Oswald Chambers, Joel Richardson, and several others.  I don't agree with everything they say, either; but I can accept most of it.  IMHO, we are missing some good updated insights into scripture by restricting ourselves to strictly 150 year-old SDA writings.  Others besides EGW also have sound and robust interpretations of scripture.

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stinsonmarri
On 5/30/2019 at 6:03 AM, Gregory Matthews said:
 
 
 
On 5/30/2019 at 9:03 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Salvation is determined by a relationship with Christ and a decision to chose to spend eternity with God.  Salvation is not determined by the knowledge that one may or may not have, as some might think that HCH is presenting. 

Respectfully Pastor: I disagree with you based on this Scripture:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected Knowledge, I will also reject thee, from acting as a priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the Law of thy ELEHEICHA, I will also forget thy children. Hos 4:6  Bible Hub Lexicon

Therefore, they say unto EL, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14 WOY

I say knowledge is salvation now it has to be about YAHWEH and I would not read a Satan bible. It is evil knowledge that you just do not need. I don't know about Hch but I don't mind checking out his sources because I can also learn from anyone.

Blessings, happy Sabbath!

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hch
14 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Respectfully Pastor: I disagree with you based on this Scripture:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected Knowledge, I will also reject thee, from acting as a priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the Law of thy ELEHEICHA, I will also forget thy children. Hos 4:6  Bible Hub Lexicon

Therefore, they say unto EL, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14 WOY

I say knowledge is salvation now it has to be about YAHWEH and I would not read a Satan bible. It is evil knowledge that you just do not need. I don't know about Hch but I don't mind checking out his sources because I can also learn from anyone.

Blessings, happy Sabbath!

We talked about that several posts back:

 

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The world is polluted, corrupted, as was the world in the days of Noah.  The only remedy is belief in the truth, acceptance of the light. Yet many have listened to the truth spoken in demonstration of the Spirit, and they have not only refused to accept the message, but they have hated the light. These men are parties to the ruin of souls. They have interposed themselves between the heaven-sent light and the people. PH154 34.2, ed  


And we will get to this statement soon (but it won't hurt to share it now)

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Our salvation depends on a knowledge of the truth contained in the Scriptures. It is God’s will that we should possess this. Search, O search the precious Bible with hungry hearts. Explore God’s word… Never give up the search until you have ascertained your relation to God and His will in regard to you.  

 

 

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Gregory Matthews

O.K.  I hvae found the source of HCH's 3rd quote.  It is from Chirst's Object Lessons, page 111 and I have provided below a longer quote than what HCH quoted.

You will note that in the longer quote, EGW was saying that the basis for Bible study was to determine one's relationship to Christ, which is exactly what I have said:  It is the relationship to Christ that is the basis of our salvation. 

In the quote below, EGW clearly does not teach that knowledge in itself is the basis of our salvation.

Any suggestion that my salvation depends upon my knowledge of what HCH  believes to be truth is simply false and a form of the gnostic  heresy. 

 

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Our salvation depends on a knowledge of the truth contained in the Scriptures. It is God’s will that we should possess this. Search, O search the precious Bible with hungry hearts. Explore God’s word as the miner explores the earth to find veins of gold. Never give up the search until you have ascertained your relation to God and His will in regard to you. Christ declared, “Whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask anything in My name, I will do it.” John 14:13, 14. { COL 111.3}

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hch
30 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The source of your 3rd quote is?

Quote

The Scriptures need not be read by the dim light of tradition or human speculation. As well might we try to give light to the sun with a torch as to explain the Scriptures by human tradition or imagination. God's holy word needs not the torchlight glimmer of earth to make its glories distinguishable. It is light in itself--the glory of God revealed, and beside it every other light is dim.  {COL 111.1}  
     But there must be earnest study and close investigation. Sharp, clear perceptions of truth will never be the reward of indolence. No earthy blessing can be obtained without earnest, patient, persevering effort. If men attain success in business, they must have a will to do and a faith to look for results. And we cannot expect to gain spiritual knowledge without earnest toil. Those who desire to find the treasures of truth must dig for them as the miner digs for the treasure hidden in the earth. No halfhearted, indifferent work will avail. It is essential for old and young, not only to read God's word, but to study it with wholehearted earnestness, praying and searching for truth as for hidden treasure. Those who do this will be rewarded, for Christ will quicken the understanding.  {COL 111.2}  
     Our salvation depends on a knowledge of the truth contained in the Scriptures. It is God's will that we should possess this. Search, O search the precious Bible with hungry hearts. Explore God's word as the miner explores the earth to find veins of gold. Never give up the search until you have ascertained your relation to God and His will in regard to you. Christ declared, "Whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask anything in My name, I will do it." John 14:13, 14
 {COL 111.3}  

 

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hch

There is another quotation that I would have shared, but I could not remember the exact wording. While looking, I encountered this:

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Wicked men will not oppose a form of godliness, nor reject a popular ministry which presents no cross for them to bear. The natural heart will raise no serious objection to a religion in which there is nothing to make the transgressor of the law tremble, or bring to bear upon the heart and conscience the terrible realities of a judgment to come. It is the demonstration of the Spirit and the power of God which raises opposition, and leads the natural heart to rebel. The truth that saves the soul must not only come from God, but His Spirit must attend its communication to others, else it falls powerless before opposing influences. O that the truth might fall from the lips of God's servants with such power as to burn its way to the hearts of the people!  {GW92 66.2}

 

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hch

Truth or Fake News?

Though Quale and Horn did get Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation right, they went on to make other predictions that are quite popular today, but contrary to sound doctrine. Thus, biblical truth is battling counterfeit truth: Fake News!

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Those who place themselves under God's control, to be led and guided by Him, will catch the steady tread of the events ordained by Him to take place.[1]

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Today we are to consider the dealings of God with the nations of the earth. We are to see in history the fulfillment of prophecy, to study the workings of Providence in the great reformatory movements, and to understand the progress of events…[2]

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[Because] “some who love to hear and tell some new thing have grieved you, have injured you… you have in your mind censured those who did not deserve censure, and [have] been suspicious of those whom you could safely trust. When you take the position you should, then your heart will be strongly knit with your brethren and sisters, and their hearts will be knit with yours, but you have been weaning yourself from your brethren and the cause exists in yourself. You are not willing to be led and instructed.”[3]

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Brethren, to whom the truths of God’s word have been opened, what part will you act in the closing scenes of this world’s history? Are you awake to these solemn realities? Do you realize the grand work of preparation that is going on in heaven and on earth? Let all who have received the light, who have had the opportunity of reading and hearing the prophecy, take heed to those things that are written therein; “for the time is at hand.” Let none now tamper with sin, the source of every misery in our world. No longer remain in lethargy and stupid indifference. Let not the destiny of your soul hang upon an uncertainty. Know that you are fully on the Lord’s side. Let the inquiry go forth from sincere hearts and trembling lips, “Who shall be able to stand?” Have you, in these last precious hours of probation, been putting the very best material into your character-building? Have you been purifying your souls from every stain? Have you followed the light? Have your works corresponded to your profession of faith? Is the softening, subduing influence of the grace of God working upon you? Have you hearts that can feel, eyes that can see, ears that can hear? Is it in vain that the declaration of eternal truth has been made concerning the nations of the earth? They are under condemnation, preparing for the judgments of God; and in this day, which is big with eternal results, the people chosen to be the depositaries of momentous truth ought to be abiding in Christ.[4]

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How little effect the solemn truths relating to these last days have upon the minds and hearts of those who claim to believe the truth.[5]

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The Bible is but yet dimly understood. A life-long prayerful study of its sacred revealings will leave still much unexplained. It is the deep movings of the Spirit of God that is needed to operate upon the heart to mold character, to open the communication between God and the soul, before the deep truths will be unraveled. Man has to learn himself before God can do great things for him. The little knowledge imparted might be a hundred-fold greater if the mind and character were balanced by the holy enlightenment of the Spirit of God. Altogether too little meekness and humility are brought into the work of searching for the truth as for hidden treasures, and if the truth were taught as it is in Jesus, there would be a hundredfold greater power, and it would be a converting power upon human hearts, but everything is so mingled with self that the wisdom from above cannot be imparted.[6]


[1] 7T 14.2

[2] 8T 307.2, ed

[3] UL 300.4, ed

[4] GCB, July 1, 1902 par. 15, ed

[5] 15MR 24.2, ed

[6] 15MR 28.2, ed

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JoeMo
2 hours ago, hch said:

Though Quale and Horn did get Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation right, they went on to make other predictions that are quite popular today, but contrary to sound doctrine.

Contrary to sound doctrine, or contrary to our interpretation of scripture?  I admit that I don't buy everything they say, either; but then again, they are probably much better educated in history and ancient languages than I am.

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hch

If the Bible is searched for truth, we will find it. If the bible is searched to prove one's beliefs to be correct while not considering other points of view,  error may well be thought to be truth.

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When men close their eyes to the light that God sends them, they will reject the most evident truth, and believe the most foolish errors. It is Satan that leads men to take false positions. Well might we ask, as did Paul in his day concerning brethren who had turned away from sound doctrine, "Who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth?" Those who claim to be children of God, are, in their ignorance, working against Him, rebelling against His providence, opposing His plans, and refusing to do the work that He has placed upon them. Instead of doing their duty, they strive to bring everything into harmony with their own narrow views. Instead of bringing their will into subjection to God, that His purpose may be accomplished, they choose their own rebellious ways, and will not yield to His guidance.  {1888 416.2}  

 

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hch

Truth Skewed by Tradition?

How can God’s people be sure that they are rightly dividing the word of truth with so many counterfeit and contradictory teachings existing? All of it cannot be right.

Christ’s Coming in 1843 sounded right to thousands, but He did not come. “The same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844.”[1] Christ did not come in 1844 either: Wrong again! “The 2300 days termi­nated in the year 1844, and that the great event represented by the cleansing of the sanctuary must then take place.”[2]

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Our disappointment in 1844 was not because of failure in the reckoning of prophetic periods, but in the events to take place. The earth was believed to be the sanctuary. But the sanctuary which was to be cleansed at the end of the prophetic periods was the heavenly sanctuary and not the earth as we all supposed. The Saviour did enter the Most Holy Place in 1844 to cleanse the sanctuary and the investigative judgment had commenced for the dead.[3]

God led the waiting Advent believers (the Adventists) with time prophecies in the past (1843 & 1844). Rejecting time prophecies after 1844 is forgetting how God has led His people in the past! Forgetting how God leads His people will have terrible consequences in the future! “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee” (Hosea 4:6).

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We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history.[4]

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God's Spirit will never lead one in a course that is contrary to His word, or that leads to separation from that people who are giving the last message of mercy.[5]

Infallibility of prophetic understanding was not how God led His people in 1843 & 44. It is not how God is leading us now. Those, who expect to grasp everything, without any misunderstandings along the way, will be disappointed.

The 1843 & 44 studies were not completely right, nor were they completely wrong: Those insights were what had been revealed from studying God’s word at the time (tainted by tradition). When Christ did not come, the Adventists restudied the Bible, and God revealed more truth about the Sanctuary: But it could only be proved by faith. After knowledge increased about heaven’s Sanctuary, unbelievers called it backpedaling, and others set dates in the future.

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The repeated efforts to find new dates for the beginning and close of the prophetic periods, and the unsound reasoning necessary to sustain these positions, not only lead minds away from the present truth, but throw contempt upon all efforts to explain the prophecies. The more frequently a definite time is set for the Second Advent, and the more widely it is taught, the better it suits the purposes of Satan. After the time has passed, he excites ridicule and contempt of its advocates, and thus casts reproach upon the great Advent movement of 1843 and 1844. Those who persist in this error will at last fix upon a date too far in the future for the coming of Christ. Thus, they will be led to rest in a false security, and many will not be undeceived until it is too late.[6]

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God is declared in all His dealings with His people; and with clear, unclouded eyes, in adversity, in sickness, in disappointment, and in trial, we are to behold the light of His glory in the face of Christ, and trust to His guiding hand. But too often we grieve His heart by our unbelief. Our faith is short-sighted, and we allow trial to strengthen our natural tendency to distrust. Brought into strait places, we dishonor God by murmuring and complaining. Instead, we should help those in need of assistance, those who are seeking for light, but know not how to find it.[7]


[1] EW 236.1

[2] GC88 328.3

[3] 10MR 269.1

[4] GCDB, January 29, 1893 par. 5

[5] RH, June 6, 1878 par. 3

[6] GC88 456.2, ed

[7] RH, April 7, 1903 par. 7

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hch

Finding Truth

William Miller, the Baptist Minister behind the Great Advent Awakening, discovered the 1843-44 dates from the time prophecy in Daniel 8:14. He wondered when the 2300 days were to begin. He had learned that a day in Bible prophecy can be a year. Daniel 9 revealed the starting-point.

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From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (Daniel 9:25).

Can we find when the decree to restore Jerusalem was issued? The first Babylonian siege of Jerusalem was in the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah (605 BC), when God gave Jerusalem to King Nebuchadnezzar (cf Daniel 1:1-2). Jeremiah also prophesied, “After seventy years be accomplished at Babylon, I will visit you…to return to this place” (Jeremiah 29:10, ed). Babylon’s 605 BC conquest of Jerusalem, would last until 535 BC.

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In the first year of his reign [King Darius the Mede] I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem (Daniel 9:2).

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The year that Cyrus succeeded Darius the Mede to the throne of Medo-Persia marked the completion of seventy years since the first company of Hebrews had been carried captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.[1]

Jerusalem fell........................………...605 BC

…………………………………………………………….-70 years

The captivity ends............................535 BC

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In the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God (Ezra 5:13, ed).

A hundred years before Jerusalem fell, before the Jews went into captivity, Isaiah had prophesied of the reign of King Cyrus and of the Restoration. Cyrus fulfilled the prophecy:

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Cyrus, he is My shepherd, and shall perform all My pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid (Isaiah 44:28).

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I have raised him [Cyrus] up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build My city, and he shall let go My captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts (45:13).


[1] RH, March 28, 1907 par. 5

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B/W Photodude

Regarding the 18lb. Bible- J. N. Loughborough wrote in his book "The Great Second Advent movement"of the holding up of this Bible. What we have missed about this story is that it was an attempt by "unbelievers" Robbins and Sargent to prove that Sister Ellen's visions were of the devil. The belief at the time was that placing a Bible on someone in a vision from the devil would break the spell. I photographed the pages rather than typing them all out.

Vision.jpg

 

The visions were also discussed:
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/652.86
And were part of this book:
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/652/info
A Youtube video also dramatizes the event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_CAQD11kBk

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hch

Temple Destroyed in Long Time

After King Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian, had captured Jerusalem twice, Ezekiel prophesied of the 3rd and final fall: “The city, [even] Jerusalem lay siege against it…I have appointedeach day for a year” (Ezekiel 4:1, 3, 6, ed).

In Ezekiel’s prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, God appointed a day to symbolize a year, which is called long time. Daniel cited long time in his prophecy: “A thing was revealed unto Daniel…and the thing was true, but the time appointed was longthe vision is for many days” (Daniel 10:1, 14, ed).

In fulfillment of Ezekiel’s long time/day for a year prophecy, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon besieged and captured Jerusalem the third time. He destroyed the Temple as Ezekiel had prophesied years earlier. Since the Temple’s destruction was linked to long time/a day for a year, its restoration must also be linked to long time/a day for a year.

The Temple in Jerusalem was essential to the Plan of Salvation. The sanctuary services performed in it included sinners offering sacrifices to atone for their sins, the priests offering morning and evening sacrifices daily, and the High Priest cleansing the Sanctuary yearly; thus, indicating that God forgave His people and removed the records of their sins from the Sanctuary. It was a big deal! King David understood the importance of God’s Sanctuary.

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The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee; Send thee help from the Sanctuary (Psalms 20:1-2).

The Babylonian destruction of Solomon’s Temple was a big deal too. How would God’s people seek forgiveness without a Temple in Jerusalem and its Sanctuary Services? When Solomon dedicated the Temple, his prayer gave some insight into its importance:

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O LORD my God…That Thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, [even] toward the place of which Thou hast said, My name shall be there: that Thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which Thy servant shall make toward this place. And hearken Thou to the supplication of Thy servant, and of Thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear Thou in heaven Thy dwelling place: and when Thou hearest, forgive…When Thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against Thee, and shall turn again to Thee, and confess Thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto Thee in this house: Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of Thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which Thou gavest unto their fathers (1 Kings 8:28-30, 33-34).

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O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech Thee, let Thine anger and Thy fury be turned away from Thy city Jerusalem, Thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Thy people [are become] a reproach to all [that are] about us. Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of Thy servant, and his supplications, and cause Thy face to shine upon Thy Sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord’s sake (Daniel 9:16-17).

 

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hch

70 years Doubled

The state of the Sanctuary/Temple and Jerusalem concerned Daniel. It must have given him hope when the Lord revealed: “[Unto] two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed” (Daniel 8:14). But there was no Sanctuary in Jerusalem to cleanse. Thus, there was much that Daniel could not understand, and that he still wanted to know.

Unto is not in the original text of Daniel 8:14. The word after could easily have been used: After two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

In spite of the 70 years being fulfilled and in spite of King Cyrus’ decree being issued on time, the Temple was in ruins, Jerusalem had not yet been rebuilt and many Jews remained in Babylon. The prophecies were not yet completely fulfilled, for the Lord had also said:

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I will bring them again into their land…first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double (Jeremiah 16:15, 18, ed).

Jerusalem fell...............................................605 BC

70 years doubled...………………......………...…… -140 years

Temple built/Captivity ends.........….............465 BC

The 70 years of Jewish captivity that had ended in the reign of Cyrus were doubled to 140 years from the 605 BC fall of Jerusalem to 465 BC, King Artaxerxes’ ascension year, when he finished his father’s official Last Year. According to Babylonian and Persian custom: A king ruled from New Year’s Day in March to the next New Year’s Day. Thus, there was a brief tarrying time between the end of the 140 years and the beginning of Artaxerxes’ reign. Counting from 464 BC (King Artaxerxes’ First Year), Ezra “came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which [was] in the seventh year of the king…on the first [day] of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem” (Ezra 7:8-9, ed).

The Temple had been finished “on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius” (Ezra 6:15). But the prophecies were not completely fulfilled, as Ezra explained, “The elders of the Jews builded …and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia” (6:14, ed).

If the prophecy had been completely fulfilled when the Temple was finished in the reign of King Darius, the decree of Artaxerxes would not have been needed. His decree, that fulfilled the prophecy, was issued in 457 BC.

For Bible prophetic calculations, a year has 360 days. Based on Daniel 8:14, the 2300-day prophecy [2300÷360] was 6 years, 4 months, and 20 days. Thus, 6 years and 4 months into Artaxerxes’ reign, Ezra arrived in Jerusalem on the 1st day of the 5th month, which was 19 days before the literal 2300-day prophecy ended. Thus, after 2300 literal days were fulfilled in King Artaxerxes’ 7th year, the rebuilt Sanctuary in Jerusalem was cleansed on the Day of Atonement in 457 BC according to the king’s decree:

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I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree… whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him (Ezra 7:21, 26).

Artaxerxes decree linked the cleansing of the rebuilt Sanctuary to Judgment. At the end of the 140 years and the literal 2300 days, this decree more completely fulfilled the prophecy than the earlier decrees of Cyrus and Darius. But the 457 BC cleansing of the Sanctuary did not completely fulfill every condition in Daniel 8:14. The word translated as cleansed means: To be put or made right, be justified. This cleansing of the Sanctuary did not completely make the Sanctuary right, because it had to be cleansed yearly.

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