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hch

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hch
40 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

You weave a fascinating tale.  Are you writing a new book?

Fascinating?

This has just begun to scratch the surface. 

The Bible is a fascinating book, the more we study, the more there is to learn.

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hch

President Bush II was elected 1) by a Protestant majority, 2) to bring America back to its Protestant heritage, and 3) to restore the dignity of the presidency that had been marred by President Clinton’s Oval Office scandal. The Bush II anointing fits the 138-week reading of Daniel 9:25, and it confirms that the 31 May 1998 papal decree was the teaching of peace that began these endtime 490 weeks. The anointing of Bush II as a political leader (President of the United States of America), fulfilled the beast of prey symbolism in Daniel 7. His Protestant (religious) mandate fulfilled the sacrificial animal (ram’s horn) symbolism in Daniel 8.

The Aramaic word in Daniel that is usually translated as covenant also means constitution. None of the Presidents from Truman through Clinton had been prophesied to be anointed the Prince of the Covenant. George Bush II fulfilled Bible prophecy when he was anointed the Protestant Prince of America’s Constitution (covenant). There is more that has been prophesied about President Bush II in the endtime!

The translators compared Daniel’s prophecies to the history that partially fulfilled the prophecies. To discover the endtime meaning of Daniel 9:26-27, Daniel’s prophecies must be compared to recent history. After Bush II was anointed 20 January 2001, he had an allotted time. After it ended, he failed to do his job—keep the United States safe.

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And after threescore and two weeks shall messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Daniel 9:26–27).

Threescore has been translated as six multiplied by ten. According to Strong, in certain instances, the number is to be added to ten rather than multiplied by it. In the endtime, Daniel 9:26 is one of those instances. By its fulfillment (Daniel 9:26) recent history confirms that conclusion.

Sixteen (six added to the ten) rather than sixty is the correct reading for our day. The word following sixteen in this text is two. It has also been translated as twice or double (cf Nehemiah 23:20 & 2 Kings 2:9; 6:10). Sixteen weeks doubled are 32 weeks. The word translated as cut off also means fail. The endtime meaning of Daniel 9:26 is: after 32 weeks, the anointed Protestant prince shall fail: He did!

On 1 September 2001, President Bush II returned from vacation—exactly 32 weeks after being anointed the Prince of America’s Constitution. Shortly after his vacation ended, he failed to keep America safe. On 11 September 2001, a surprise attack changed America and the world forever.

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A sudden flash of clarity on the basic question of how our government let disaster happen…when CIA Director George Tenet was on the stand. Timothy Roemer, a former Democratic congressman, asked him when he first found out about the report from the FBI’s Minnesota field office that Zacarias Moussaoui, an Islamic jihadist, had been taking lessons on how to fly a 747. Tenet replied that he was briefed about the case on Aug. 23 or 24, 2001.

Roemer then asked Tenet if he mentioned Moussaoui to President Bush at one of their frequent morning briefings. Tenet replied, “I was not in briefings at this time.” Bush, he noted, “was on vacation.” He added that he didn’t see the president at all in August 2001. During the entire month, Bush was at his ranch in Texas. “You never talked with him?” Roemer asked. “No,” Tenet replied.[1]

 

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After thirty-two weeks, the anointed one [Bush II] shall fail. The prince’s people shall attack and destroy the city’s set apart places to cut them asunder. At the end of time, he will become incensed with anger even unto the end of the war that is appalling and decisive (Daniel 9:26, alternate endtime meaning).

After the 32 weeks had ended, the consequence of Bush II’s failure was September 11, 2001. A sanctuary is a set apart place. King Nebuchadnezzar had moved the gold from Jerusalem’s Temple to his set apart treasure house in Babylon. One of the Twin Towers in New York City was set apart as a treasure house that stored gold. Satan is the prince of this world: His agents destroyed the Twin Towers.

Prophecy continues. President Bush II fulfilled it:

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And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Daniel 9:27).

Immediately after 11 September 2001, President Bush II confirmed America’s Covenant/Constitution with many for one week. He declared that week to be from Monday through Sunday instead of a biblical week from Sunday to Saturday:

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I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of America…do hereby proclaim...September 17 through September 23, 2001, as Constitution Week.[2]

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And in the midst of the week he shall cause the Sacrifice and the Oblation to cease (Daniel 9:27).

In the midst of Constitution Week (September 17 through 23, 2001) on Thursday (9/20/01, exactly in the middle of that Monday through Sunday week), the Apostate Protestant Prince of the Covenant, President George Bush II, caused Christ’s Sacrifice and Oblation to cease. He did it in a speech to Congress that aired globally on 20 September 2001.

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I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith… Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah.[3]

Are Muslims teachings good? They teach that they can go to heaven without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!

The most Christian President in the history of the United States, who Daniel identified as the anointed Protestant Prince of the Covenant, pronounced the Muslim belief in salvation without Christ as good! In that concession to political correctness: The anointed Protestant Prince of the Covenant abolished Christ’s Sacrifice and Oblation in the midst of the week as prophesied:

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The [Muslim] idea that it is necessary only to develop the good that exists in man by nature, is a fatal deception. “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” …1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:7. Of Christ it is written…the only “name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” John 1:4; Acts 4:12.[4]

The Oblation is the necessity to receive Jesus as our personal Savior. Christ’s sacrifice is useless in our behalf unless we accept Jesus as the atonement for our sins. Thus, in that speech, President Bush II did away with the oblation, the necessity of accepting Jesus as our personal Savior.

 

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The prosperity of the soul depends upon Christ’s atoning sacrifice. He came to this world to obtain forgiveness in our behalf. Our first work is to strive most earnestly for spiritual blessings, in order that we may be kept loyal and true amidst the perils of these last days--kept from yielding one inch to Satan’s devices. It is the duty of every one to make straight paths for his feet, lest the lame be turned out of the way. We have no time to lose. The prosperity of the soul depends upon the oneness that Christ prayed might exist among those who believe in Him. They are to be one with Him as He is one with the Father. Drawing apart from one another is not God’s plan, but the plan of the artful foe.

We are to beware of those who…would if possible, deceive the very elect… Those who are departing from the faith are at work to undermine the confidence of others... Our warnings come from the One who…sees our dangers, and is acquainted with the conniving of those who are opposed to His truth… Our Intercessor in the heavenly courts will purify His people.[5]

 

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Gregory Matthews

In the quote below, HCH has demonstrated my previous comment as to approaching the Bible from the standpoint of imposing events in the common life today on the Bible.  Any idea that the Bible  has something to say about a vacation taken by a President of the United States is simply beyond belief.

This approach holds the Bible up to ridicule and should be rejected by any person who believes in the Bible.  

 

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Sixteen (six added to the ten) rather than sixty is the correct reading for our day. The word following sixteen in this text is two. It has also been translated as twice or double (cf Nehemiah 23:20 & 2 Kings 2:9; 6:10). Sixteen weeks doubled are 32 weeks. The word translated as cut off also means fail. The endtime meaning of Daniel 9:26 is: after 32 weeks, the anointed Protestant prince shall fail: He did!

On 1 September 2001, President Bush II returned from vacation—exactly 32 weeks after being anointed the Prince of America’s Constitution. Shortly after his vacation ended, he failed to keep America safe. On 11 September 2001, a surprise attack changed America and the world forever.

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hch
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We are to beware of those who…would if possible, deceive the very elect… Those who are departing from the faith are at work to undermine the confidence of others... Our warnings come from the One who…sees our dangers, and is acquainted with the conniving of those who are opposed to His truth… Our Intercessor in the heavenly courts will purify His people.[1]

            Is Anyone Watching?

Christ, the TRUE Prince of God’s Covenant, confirmed it with many for one week. In the midst of the week, He died on Calvary. He did away with the earthly Sanctuary System that will never be restored. He entered the Temple in Heaven to plead His blood (sacrifice) for all, who will receive the oblation (accept Jesus as our personal Savior). Jesus went from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in Heaven to confirm the forgiveness of sins and to blot out the sins that we have confessed and forsaken. Jesus destroys sin but saves the forgiven sinner, but those, who will not receive Jesus as their Savior, are not benefited by His atonement.

As prophesied, the anointed Protestant Prince of the Covenant did away with Christ’s sacrifice and oblation in the midst of Constitution Week when he declared Muslim beliefs to be good. This lie ends the sinner that clings to his sin.

In 2001, Yom Kippur came on September 27. Ten Days of Awe precede Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. During the Ten Days of Awe, God’s people in ancient Israel confessed their sins in preparation for their atonement, when the Sanctuary was cleansed. A day was allotted to focus on each of the Ten Commandments and to confess sins to God.

On the 3rd Day of Awe (20 September 2001—the day in the midst of Constitution Week, when President Bush II took away the sacrifice and oblation), it was the day that God’s people would earnestly be confessing their sins regarding the 3rd commandment: “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain (Exodus 20:7). Those, who are Christian in name only: Take God’s name in vain!

Today this sacrilegious work is being more than repeated. There will be messages borne; and those who have rejected the messages God has sent, will hear most startling declarations. The Holy Spirit will invest the announcement with a sanctity and solemnity which will appear terrible in the ears of those who have heard the pleadings of infinite love, and have not responded to the offers of pardon and forgiveness. Injured and insulted Deity will speak, proclaiming the sins that have been hidden. As the priests and rulers, full of indignation and terror, sought refuge in flight at the last scene of the cleansing of the temple, so will it be in the work for these last days. The woes that will be pronounced upon those that have had light from heaven, and yet did not heed it, they will feel, but will have no power to act. This is represented in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They cannot obtain a character from the wise virgins, and they have no oil of grace to discern the clear light or to accept it. They cannot light their lamps and join the procession that goes in to the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Study the Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated. We must be true and faithful amid the abounding iniquity that prevails. At no period of time are we in such danger as when prosperity seems to crown our efforts. Self must be hidden in God. We are living amid the perils of the last days, and many are insensible to the perils that threaten our world. We, with all our religious advantages, ought to know far more today than we do know. “Watch, and pray,” said Jesus, “for ye know not when the time is.” “Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of Man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” Repentance is not a desirable emotion. Christ said, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” …There is hidden depravity that needs to be carefully considered and uprooted. God help us individually to purify our souls by obeying the truth.[2]

True Bible prophecy, fulfilled in our day, is difficult to see. But as prophecy is studied, there is so much more to learn. The foundational prophecies in Daniel and Revelation must be studied. They repeat and enlarge upon what has been studied thus far.

I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what He will say unto me (Habakkuk 2:1, ed).

What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch (Mr 13:37).

What the church needs in these days of peril is… men who will not shun trial and responsibility; men who are brave and true; men in whose hearts Christ is formed “the hope of glory,” and who with lips touched with holy fire will “preach the word.” For want of such workers the cause of God languishes, and fatal errors, like a deadly poison, taint the morals and blight the hopes of a large part of the human race.[3]

I point you to Jesus. Stand forth in moral power in God. You are doing service not for man, but for God, who is to bless you. As we consult one with another and compare ideas, all our propositions are to be fully considered, frankly discussed, and acted upon; but one man is only a part of the great whole, and he is not to be mind and judgment for the whole body of believers. Our great weakness is in placing men where God should be, to be looked up to and confided in. What are these men? Only bruised reeds unless they put their confidence and trust just where it is your privilege to put your trust and dependence. Why is the caution given, “Trust not in man, neither make flesh your arm”? For the very reason that men have failed in a time when it was necessary for them to be entirely shut in with God, walking with fear and trembling before Him, true as the compass to the pole.

There is danger, great danger with all men of becoming self-deceived. There are certain circumstances when Satan will cunningly and with artful talent, work to hinder the cause of God. Some influence not proceeding from the throne of God will introduce itself. Inborn and cultivated tendencies are fostered that Satan finds a chance to stir up and strengthen. If not discerned by the possessor these will lead to a development of weakness. When a man is not steadfastly following the Light of Life, he knoweth not at what he stumbleth.

Men must keep their own souls in the love of God, else they will fail to teach others these precious lessons, and will prove the worthlessness and power to form a character after the divine similitude. Great learning and talent will not make a man sufficient for a responsible position which will make him a wise master workman, unless he is proportionately balanced by a symmetrical character, and by making Jesus his heavenly Guide, not trusting to his supposed smartness or his talents. Men should never exchange the heavenly Guide for an earthly guide, who is himself only a part of the great web of humanity, like unto themselves, finite and fallible.

We often find in human character strong contrasts of light and darkness. The only safety for men and women to whom God has given reason, is to subdue an ambition that is earth-born, and they themselves feel the necessity like Mary, of choosing the better part, which shall never be taken from them; sitting at the feet of Jesus and learning of him meekness and lowliness of heart; dying to self, that their life may be hid with Christ in God.

We all need and must have pure religion, not borrowed from another, but from Christ Jesus, the source of all heavenly grace. Then we are to honor God by looking to God, trusting in God, and keeping the truth in the heart pure and undefiled, having that faith that works by love and purifies the soul. The truth, when practiced, is a guide. Christ is truth. We must yield to him who alone is truth, and who alone can give to the troubled heart assurance and peace. To every one of the human family, confident, boasting, or desponding, God the searcher of hearts declares, “I know thy works,” God speaks, “know Him.” There can be hypocrisy on the one hand or deception on the other. God sees and knows.[4]


[1] TDG 74.4 – 6, ed

[2] SpTA07 54.2-55.1. ed

[3] AA 507.2

[4] 13MR 28.1-29.2

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hch
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We are to beware of those who…would if possible, deceive the very elect… Those who are departing from the faith are at work to undermine the confidence of others... Our warnings come from the One who…sees our dangers, and is acquainted with the conniving of those who are opposed to His truth… Our Intercessor in the heavenly courts will purify His people.[1]

       Is Anyone Watching?

Christ, the TRUE Prince of God’s Covenant, confirmed it with many for one week. In the midst of the week, He died on Calvary. He did away with the earthly Sanctuary System that will never be restored. He entered the Temple in Heaven to plead His blood (sacrifice) for all, who will receive the oblation (accept Jesus as our personal Savior). Jesus went from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in Heaven to confirm the forgiveness of sins and to blot out the sins that we have confessed and forsaken. Jesus destroys sin but saves the forgiven sinner, but those, who will not receive Jesus as their Savior, are not benefited by His atonement.

As prophesied, the anointed Protestant Prince of the Covenant did away with Christ’s sacrifice and oblation in the midst of Constitution Week when he declared Muslim beliefs to be good. This lie ends the sinner that clings to his sin.

In 2001, Yom Kippur came on September 27. Ten Days of Awe precede Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. During the Ten Days of Awe, God’s people in ancient Israel confessed their sins in preparation for their atonement, when the Sanctuary was cleansed. A day was allotted to focus on each of the Ten Commandments and to confess sins to God.

On the 3rd Day of Awe (20 September 2001—the day in the midst of Constitution Week, when President Bush II took away the sacrifice and oblation), it was the day that God’s people would earnestly be confessing their sins regarding the 3rd commandment: “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain (Exodus 20:7). Those, who are Christian in name only: Take God’s name in vain!

Quote

Today this sacrilegious work is being more than repeated. There will be messages borne; and those who have rejected the messages God has sent, will hear most startling declarations. The Holy Spirit will invest the announcement with a sanctity and solemnity which will appear terrible in the ears of those who have heard the pleadings of infinite love, and have not responded to the offers of pardon and forgiveness. Injured and insulted Deity will speak, proclaiming the sins that have been hidden. As the priests and rulers, full of indignation and terror, sought refuge in flight at the last scene of the cleansing of the temple, so will it be in the work for these last days. The woes that will be pronounced upon those that have had light from heaven, and yet did not heed it, they will feel, but will have no power to act. This is represented in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They cannot obtain a character from the wise virgins, and they have no oil of grace to discern the clear light or to accept it. They cannot light their lamps and join the procession that goes in to the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Quote

Study the Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated. We must be true and faithful amid the abounding iniquity that prevails. At no period of time are we in such danger as when prosperity seems to crown our efforts. Self must be hidden in God. We are living amid the perils of the last days, and many are insensible to the perils that threaten our world. We, with all our religious advantages, ought to know far more today than we do know. “Watch, and pray,” said Jesus, “for ye know not when the time is.” “Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of Man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” Repentance is not a desirable emotion. Christ said, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” …There is hidden depravity that needs to be carefully considered and uprooted. God help us individually to purify our souls by obeying the truth.[2]

True Bible prophecy, fulfilled in our day, is difficult to see. But as prophecy is studied, there is so much more to learn. The foundational prophecies in Daniel and Revelation must be studied. They repeat and enlarge upon what has been studied thus far.

Quote

I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what He will say unto me (Habakkuk 2:1, ed).

Quote

What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch (Mark 13:37).

Quote

What the church needs in these days of peril is… men who will not shun trial and responsibility; men who are brave and true; men in whose hearts Christ is formed “the hope of glory,” and who with lips touched with holy fire will “preach the word.” For want of such workers the cause of God languishes, and fatal errors, like a deadly poison, taint the morals and blight the hopes of a large part of the human race.[3]

Quote

I point you to Jesus. Stand forth in moral power in God. You are doing service not for man, but for God, who is to bless you. As we consult one with another and compare ideas, all our propositions are to be fully considered, frankly discussed, and acted upon; but one man is only a part of the great whole, and he is not to be mind and judgment for the whole body of believers. Our great weakness is in placing men where God should be, to be looked up to and confided in. What are these men? Only bruised reeds unless they put their confidence and trust just where it is your privilege to put your trust and dependence. Why is the caution given, “Trust not in man, neither make flesh your arm”? For the very reason that men have failed in a time when it was necessary for them to be entirely shut in with God, walking with fear and trembling before Him, true as the compass to the pole.

 

Quote

 

There is danger, great danger with all men of becoming self-deceived. There are certain circumstances when Satan will cunningly and with artful talent, work to hinder the cause of God. Some influence not proceeding from the throne of God will introduce itself. Inborn and cultivated tendencies are fostered that Satan finds a chance to stir up and strengthen. If not discerned by the possessor these will lead to a development of weakness. When a man is not steadfastly following the Light of Life, he knoweth not at what he stumbleth.

Men must keep their own souls in the love of God, else they will fail to teach others these precious lessons, and will prove the worthlessness and power to form a character after the divine similitude. Great learning and talent will not make a man sufficient for a responsible position which will make him a wise master workman, unless he is proportionately balanced by a symmetrical character, and by making Jesus his heavenly Guide, not trusting to his supposed smartness or his talents. Men should never exchange the heavenly Guide for an earthly guide, who is himself only a part of the great web of humanity, like unto themselves, finite and fallible.

We often find in human character strong contrasts of light and darkness. The only safety for men and women to whom God has given reason, is to subdue an ambition that is earth-born, and they themselves feel the necessity like Mary, of choosing the better part, which shall never be taken from them; sitting at the feet of Jesus and learning of him meekness and lowliness of heart; dying to self, that their life may be hid with Christ in God.

We all need and must have pure religion, not borrowed from another, but from Christ Jesus, the source of all heavenly grace. Then we are to honor God by looking to God, trusting in God, and keeping the truth in the heart pure and undefiled, having that faith that works by love and purifies the soul. The truth, when practiced, is a guide. Christ is truth. We must yield to him who alone is truth, and who alone can give to the troubled heart assurance and peace. To every one of the human family, confident, boasting, or desponding, God the searcher of hearts declares, “I know thy works,” God speaks, “know Him.” There can be hypocrisy on the one hand or deception on the other. God sees and knows.[4]


[1]

 

TDG 74.4 – 6, ed

[2] SpTA07 54.2-55.1. ed

[3] AA 507.2

[4] 13MR 28.1-29.2

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hch

Daniel and Revelation

By God’s command, Daniel was shut up, “closed up and sealed till the time of the end” (cf Daniel 12:9, 12). Long before Daniel was opened and unsealed, it was partially understood. God’s validating seal on Daniel was understood before the endtime meaning was opened or unsealed.

In the 4th century AD in TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME explained the four kingdoms in Daniel’s prophecies. Luther confirmed it 1200 years later: “Everyone agrees on this view and interpretation. Subsequent events and the histories, prove it conclusively.”[1]

Thus, the 1611 King James Bible translated Daniel according to the commonly accepted four-kingdom view as though these prophecies were opened and fulfilled. The four-kingdom view that fulfilled God’s command to seal Daniel also influenced the translators’ choice of words.

In 1733, Newton reaffirmed the four-kingdom view in his book: Observations Upon The Apocalypse Of St. John. That understanding was well established long before God unsealed the book of Daniel and opened it, and before the command was fulfilled in Revelation 10:11 for Daniel to prophesy again. Thus, before the 1844 time of the end of the 2300-year prophecy, Bible scholars and translators thought that Daniel’s prophecies had been fulfilled.

In chapter 2, Daniel reveals a special dream that God had given King Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel dreamed the same dream in which the king was depicted as the idol’s gold head.

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JoeMo

hch,

While your stories make interesting reading, What you are posting is just that - a story. If you were to publish it, it would have to be classified as fiction. The historical facts may be true, but - your spiritual interpretation of history is mostly pure fiction.  Plus, you are making SDA's seem like a bunch of cultish kooks.

I myself have some "different" ideas about some things that I believe, or the mental constructs I put on certain things so that they make sense to me.  They probably wouldn't make sense to anyone else; so I don't post them here (although some of the stuff I post admittedly runs counterculture).

I feel the same way about your posts.  They may make sense to you, but most of them make no sense to me.  Did you ever see a movie called "A Beautiful Mind"?  In a way, you remind me of the guy in that movie; except that your obsession is prophetic interpretation rather than conspiracy theories.

I say the above respectfully; not to harass you. I'm sure that administrators are watching what you post.

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hch

A Closer Look

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In the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces (Daniel 2:44, ed).

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The prophetic events related in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream [Daniel 2] were of consequence to him…[1]

The mysterious vision relates to King Nebuchadnezzar and his dynasty. Because the King James (KJV) translators did not see that local fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecies, they chose words that conveyed what they believed the prophecies meant. Compare their rendition of 2:39 that predisposes the reader to focus on the four-kingdom view to an alternate rendition of the same verse that relates to the local fulfilment:

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After thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth (Daniel 2:39).

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After thee shall arise another reign of your land, and another third reign of brass, which shall bear rule over all your land (2:39, alternate).

The alternate reading of 2:39 focuses the meaning of the prophecy on: 1) King Nebuchadnezzar [the gold head], 2) King Evil-Merodach [his son, the silver chest], 3) King Neriglissar [Nebuchadnezzar’s son-in-law, the brass midsection], 4) Nabonidus [another son-in-law, an iron leg that extend into a foot mixed with clay {depicting churchcraft mingling with statecraft}], who co-rule with Belshazzar [Nebuchadnezzar’s grandson, the other iron leg that extend into the other iron foot mixed with clay]. Kings Belshazzar and Nabonidus co-ruled until Babylon fell. The alternate reading aligns with and confirms Jeremiah’s prophecy perfectly:

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All nations shall serve him [Nebuchadnezzar], and his son [Evil-Merodach], and his son’s son [grandson, Belshazzar], until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him (cf Jeremiah 27:4-11).

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We have come to a time when God's sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay… The mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is represented by the iron and the clay.[2]

Obviously, the local interpretation of this prophecy was fulfilled by King Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty when ancient Babylon fell to Medo-Persia. But it only partially fulfilled the prophecy, because Medo-Persia was not an eternal kingdom. However, Medo-Persia toppled Babylon and it foreshadows a final complete fulfillment that follows in the endtime because King Cyrus is a type of Christ, who is to rule in the endtime.

Both readings of Daniel 2:39 are correct. But obviously, they are only partial fulfilments: An eternal kingdom was not established at the end of Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty, nor were the four kingdoms ever coexisting that are to be broken to pieces together according to the prophecy:

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Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together (Daniel 2:35, ed).

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Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time (NASB, ed).

What is Daniel telling the king? Is it about his kingdom, Babylon, or about King Nebuchadnezzar and his dynasty?

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The kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever (Daniel 2:44, ed).

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The reign shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these reigns, and it shall stand for ever (2:44, alternate).

Neither the four kingdoms: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome; nor King Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty completely fulfilled the prophecy. They sealed its validity by partially fulfilling it at the appointed time. They foreshadow an endtime complete fulfillment long after the 1611 King James translators thought that the prophecy had been fulfilled, for God had closed, shut up, and sealed Daniel until the time of the end when knowledge shall be increased: O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end…knowledge shall be increased (Daniel 12:4, ed).


[1] YI, November 24, 1903 par. 1, ed

[2] 15MR 39.1-2, ed

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B/W Photodude
On 6/12/2019 at 3:33 PM, JoeMo said:

I appreciate your posts and responses, B/W.  they make me think and study more.  I must admit that I am reading a lot more SoP than I used to; partially inspired by reading your posts.

Thank you for your comments. I hope no one thinks I am one of those who values the SOP books over the Bible or any other writers over the Bible. But it seems to me that we as a church were especially blessed by the messages given to the church thru Sister Ellen. And after almost 2000 years with no prophets receiving visions, it is encouraging that the silence was broken. This is not to say that many others faithful to God did not receive inspiration from heaven in their work for God.

I have had people who did not want to refer to SOP books saying they only wanted to read from the Bible. I find this interesting as if I took this to a logical conclusion, I would not listen to them either! Books from writers no longer with us are a way for them to remain a part of a discussion even after death.

I find it interesting to be reading a chapter in the Testimonies, and every paragraph I find myself thinking that would be a good sermon. Next paragraph a different sermon. And this can go one for quite some time.

There are those who refuse to quote Sister Ellen in sermons at church. This I find disturbing and I soon find they lack a bit of credibility attempting to preach in an SDA church and have no use for Sister Ellen. However, I have also known those more interested in what Sister Ellen says than what the Bible says. This is also wrong in its own way. So, there is a lot to be said for moderation and not going off deep ends on either side of the EGW writings discussion.

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JoeMo
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

There are those who refuse to quote Sister Ellen in sermons at church.

I do not accept all of what EGW said.  IMHO, some of the stuff she said was flat wrong.  But the other 95% is totally quotable and useful for meditation and instruction.  If preachers are comfortable quoting other Christian writers like Phillip Yancey,  Billy Graham,  Max Lucado, Joseph Prince, Jonathan Edwards, Martin, Charles Stanley, Chuck Missler,  Luther, etc., etc; why should they be uncomfortable quoting EGW?  None of those other guys have it all right, either; but they all have good stuff to say.

EGW never claimed to be all that the White Estate and SDA denomination have built her up to be.  If people want to totally reject her the church's position on her gift of prophecy, they need to blame the White Estate and the denomination, not EGW.

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hch
7 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I do not accept all of what EGW said.  IMHO, some of the stuff she said was flat wrong.  But the other 95% is totally quotable and useful for meditation and instruction...

They have a name for picking and choosing things that Ellen White wrote and omitting other things: Selected Messages.

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hch

Sealing Prophecy

How did God seal the book of Daniel? What is its message that is to be unsealed in the endtime?

In the KJV translation of Daniel, malkuw (Strong H4437) is kingly throne (5:20), realm (6:3), and reign (6:28), but it is translated as kingdom all of the other times that it occurs in Daniel. Likewise, the word ara [H772] which is rendered as inferior only this once in the entire Bible and earth when it appears the next time in the same text. Ara also means land.

The translation of malkuw and ara verify the premature understanding of the four-kingdom model. These words hide in plain sight the meaning that was sealed until the endtime. If the KJV had not focused on the prophetic fulfillment of the four kingdoms before the prophetic meaning was unsealed and opened in 1844, King Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty would have been obvious. Those four kings foreshadow the four kingdoms, and the meaning that is unsealed in the endtime as God commanded. God used the KJV rendition of the four kingdoms to seal the meaning of Daniel until the endtime, when Daniel stands in his lot. The hiding of the endtime meaning in plain sight that sealed Daniel 2, sealed Daniel 4.

In the 1611 King James Bible, Daniel 2 reads like it applies primarily to Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom, but not the king. The opposite is true for chapter 4; it reads like it applies solely to the king, but not his kingdom. Why are these two chapters interpreted to convey such different meanings?

 

Comparing Daniel 2 to 4

Metal Idol (Daniel 2)                       Great Tree (Daniel 4)

Thou art this head (2:38)             The tree is thou (4:20-22)

A great image (2:31)               Height to heaven (4:11 & 20)

This head (2:38)                                     Tree’s heart (4:16)

[man’s thought center]                             [cf Proverbs 23:7]

The beasts (2:38)                             The beasts (4:12 & 21)

given into thine hand                         had shadow under it

Thou art a king (2:21 & 37)      Most High rules (4:17 & 22)

for the God of heaven hath                the Kingdom of men,

given thee a kingdom                                  and giveth it to

                                                            whomsoever He will

Belly and thighs (2:32-33 & 39-40)            The band (4:15)

of brass and iron                                     of iron and brass

Stone destroyed it (2:34, 45)    Hew down tree (4:13-14, 23)

The great God (2:45)                     The interpretation (4:24)

hath made known to the king               O king, and this is

what shall come...hereafter:                               the decree

and the dream is certain                           of the Most High

and the interpretation                                  which is come

thereof sure                                    upon my lord the king

The God of heaven will (2:44)              Thy kingdom (4:26)

set up a kingdom                                    is sure unto thee,

the kingdom shall stand for ever         the heavens do rule

 

There is another instance in the Bible that illustrates two dreams with one meaning. Egypt’s pharaoh had two different dreams that both conveyed the same meaning.

In my dream, behold… I awoke… And I saw in my dream… The dream of Pharaoh [is] one: God hath showed Pharaoh what He [is] about to do (Cf Genesis 41).

O king [Nebuchadnezzar]…He that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass…Thou [art] this head of gold (Daniel 2:29, 38, ed).

The tree that thou sawest…It [is] thou, O king (4:20,22, ed).

Obviously, Daniel made both statements under Divine Inspiration: You are the head of gold, and The tree is you! The meanings of the two statements must harmonize one with the other! Thus, if the head of gold depicts Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom in Daniel 2, then the meaning of the tree in chapter 4 must be applied (as in Daniel 2) to his kingdom, Babylon. If the great tree depicts King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4, then the meaning of the head of gold in chapter 2 must apply to him personally as well. One vision cannot apply to the kingdom and the other to the king: Both visions MUST apply to the king and to his kingdom, and they do.

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Light comes from the very throne of God. When some familiar truth presents itself to your mind in a new aspect, when a text of Scripture suddenly bursts upon you with new meaning like a flash of light that scatters the mist, and you see the relation of other truths to some part of the plan of redemption, God is leading you, and a divine Teacher is at your side. Will you not then open the door of your heart to receive more and more of the heavenly illumination?[1]

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In your study of the word of God, penetrate deeper and still deeper beneath the surface. Lay hold by faith on divine power and sound the depths of inspiration.[2]

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Great truths that have lain unheeded and unseen… are to shine from God’s word in their native purity. To those who truly love God the Holy Spirit will reveal truths that have faded from the mind, and will also reveal truths that are entirely new. Those who eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God will bring from the books of Daniel and Revelation truth that is inspired by the Holy Spirit. They will start into action forces that cannot be repressed.[3]

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The lesson that the Lord would have all humanity learn from the history of the king of Babylon is that all those who walk in pride and self-exaltation, He is able to abase. The chastening that came upon the king of Babylon wrought reformation in the heart of the king and transformed him in character. Before his humiliation he was tyrannical in his dealings with others, but now the overbearing, fierce monarch is changed into a wise and compassionate ruler. Before his humiliation he defied and blasphemed the God of heaven, but now he acknowledges His power and seeks earnestly to promote the happiness of his subjects. At last the king had received his lesson. “Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will make known to you what He hath done for my soul” [Psalms 66:16]. The Lord designed that the greatest kingdom in the world should know and show forth His praise. Nebuchadnezzar says, “And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored Him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?” [Daniel 4:34, 35][4]

The visions in Daniel 2 & 4 complement each other by revealing: 1) Truth relating to the King of Babylon {and his dynasty}; 2) Truth relating to the kingdom of Babylon and coming kingdoms; 3) Truth that is to be unsealed and opened relating to four endtime kings; 4) Truth limiting the duration of the time allotted to these visions; and 5) The king’s deadly wound that is healed in Daniel 4 foreshadows Babylon’s deadly wound that is healed before Daniel 2 is completely and finally fulfilled. The repeat and enlarge principles are at work in Daniel 2 & 4. Thus, as we continue to prayerfully study Daniel, more will be learned.

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The prophetic events related in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream [Daniel 2] were of consequence to him, but the dream was taken from him in order that the wise men should not place upon it a false interpretation. The lessons taught by the dream were given by God for those who live in our day. The inability of the wise men to tell the dream is a representation of the limitations of the wise men of the present day, who, not having wisdom and discernment from the Most High, are unable to understand the prophecies.[5]

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In history and prophecy, the Word of God portrays the long continued conflict between truth and error. That conflict is yet in progress. Those things which have been will be repeated.[6]


[1] ST, August 27, 1894 par. 3, ed

[2] 9T 151.1

[3] RH, August 17, 1897 par. 19, ed

[4] 13MR 66.2, ed

[5] YI, November 24, 1903 par. 1

[6]1MR 47.3&17MR 11.1, ed

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hch

Since prophecy is History in Advance, it is important to be able to align the events with the prophecy when they happen. 

The King of Babylon

God sets up Kings and removes them. Who does the tyrannical overbearing fierce king of Babylon in Daniel 4 that defied and blasphemed the God of Heaven prophetically depict in the endtime? The Scriptures explain themselves:

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Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say…How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (Isaiah 14:4, 9, ed)

In Daniel 4, the king of Babylon went insane for seven years, but when they ended, they were called, “the end of the days” (Daniel 4:34). A day can depict a year in prophecy. The reverse must be true: A time/year can depict a day. Thus, the end of the seven years are: The end of the DAYS.

The 7,000 years

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Be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day (  2 Peter 3:8).

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For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night (Psalms 90:4).

God’s Creation week was seven literal days! Satan’s creation, the sin problem, has continued for about 6,000 years with the seventh thousand years soon to come. Ellen White’s contemporary, Crosier, explained it this way:

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The last act of deliverance will be at the end of the 1000 years… The Sabbaths under the Law typify the great Sabbath, the seventh millennium; Hebrews 4:3.[1]

White agreed. She affirmed that Crosier’s view was true:

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Brother Crosier had the true light…in the Day-Star, Extra, February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra, to every saint.[2]

In addition to agreeing with Crosier, White often wrote that sin was limited to a 6,000-year duration. An example:

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The great controversy between Christ and Satan that has been carried forward for nearly six thousand years is soon to close.[3]

Ellen White also explicitly limits the duration of sin to 6,000 years in specific statements. In a vision from the perspective of the redeemed saint’s in Heaven, White wrote:

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Satan’s work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will… The whole earth is at rest…[4]

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Gregory Matthews

HCH said in the quote below:

The Bible is the ultimate judge as to what is true.  Nothing else can establish truth.  The fact that the Bible may establish one position as truth, does not mean that the reverse is established.  There must be a clear Biblical statement as to what is truth.

I am not aware of any Biblical statement to the effect that a year can represent a 24-hour day in time.

A day can depict a year in prophecy. The reverse must be true: A time/year can depict a day.

HCH's statement above is a good example of  him going beyond what the Bible says and of reading his own agenda into the Bible and the lack of Biblical foundation for much of  what HCH proclaims.

 

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JoeMo

Gregory,

I'm glad I read your post before I responded to hch.  I was gonna say basically the same thing.  His "logic" appeared to be "illogical".  His reliance on EGW to prove his points when he cannot find anything in scripture to back him up concerns me.

 

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Gregory Matthews

Joe:  If we can not depend upon HCH to correctly tell us what the Bible says, we can not depend upon him to tell us what EGW said.

 

 

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hch
8 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH said in the quote below:

The Bible is the ultimate judge as to what is true.  Nothing else can establish truth.  The fact that the Bible may establish one position as truth, does not mean that the reverse is established.  There must be a clear Biblical statement as to what is truth.

I am not aware of any Biblical statement to the effect that a year can represent a 24-hour day in time.

HCH's statement above is a good example of  him going beyond what the Bible says and of reading his own agenda into the Bible and the lack of Biblical foundation for much of  what HCH proclaims.

 

GM,

your refusal to see the obvious is another attempt to stifle what the Bible says and keep its deeper meaning hidden. Have you never read:

2 Peter 3:8  "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

That principle is revealed in the word of God through the Apostle Peter. Yet you do not seem to be opposing that a day can be a year prophetically, but you accused me of "going beyond what the Bible says and of reading his own agenda into the Bible and the lack of Biblical foundation" which is to say that there is something wrong with my seeing that a year can depict a day in prophecy.

To apply your own words to you as it is written [Matthew 7:2 "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again], it can be asked of you: "If we can not depend upon GM to correctly tell us what the Bible says, we can not depend upon him to tell us what EGW said."

I often have wondered why the logic that you display is more akin to that of a Jesuit than of an SDA?

But I am still praying for you.

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Gregory Matthews

Some time you will have to   share with us your experience  with  Jesuit that gives you the background to make such a statement.

Have you ever met one?  I Mean one whom is not a SDA and you claim is a Jesuit.

Have   you ever talked to a Jesuit?

 

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hch
1 minute ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Some time you will have to   share with us your experience  with  Jesuit that gives you the background to make such a statement.

Have you ever met one?  I Mean one whom is not a SDA and you claim is a Jesuit.

Have   you ever talked to a Jesuit?

 

Only if you count my cousin "Father Ray"

He used to invite my dad to go with him to the burlesque shows.  One of our mutual aunts banned him from our uncle's funeral and she was on the Catholic side of the family. Not only did he not preside at the funeral mass, but she forbid him to attend.

My great-grandmother had a dozen kids and they married an interdenominational international group of spouses. On her side of the family we had a 34 degree mason, the head of the armed services committee in DC, a prominent judge (my name sake), and an upper level official in the world bank.

Her daughter (my grandmother) married my grandfather Robert Burns a descendent of the poet and of John Adams and John Quincy Adams [to name a few ancestors] .

That being said I have not lived in a vacuum. And the Lord did not bless me with a 4.0 GPA in college because I was dumb or because I failed to do my studies. 

The Scriptures say: 

2Ti 2:15  "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

1Th 5:21  "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

There is no command to cling to tradition until it turns blue, or to reject everything that does not fit our favorite prejudices. 

I check out what I have been taught [an SDA for over 53 years ] with much prayer and BIBLE study...I know what I believe and why I believe it. And I'm still praying for you daily.

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Gregory Matthews

Well, if your cousin was a Jesuit, you have met and talked with one.  I asked and you answered.

Are you telling me that your namesake was born in 1853, died in 1913, served in the Missouri legislature and served as an elected judge in Missouri for five (5) years?  If so, he was certainly a self-taught man who did very well for himself, as I have only touched on his accomplishments.

However, it must be noted that while he clearly was self-taught, at all times he subjected himself to the guidance and mentoring of people who knew more about the subjects in which he was interested (the law) than he did.  In actual fact, he was much more than self-taught.

 

[Entered later:  HCH, you may laugh, but my description of the above judge very well could be your relative--GM.]

 

 

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hch

The Principle of First Mention

In spite of Crosier’s sound Bible study, and White’s specific statements limiting sin to 6,000 years, some people doubt that God limits sin’s duration. The Bible explains itself. With the principle of First Mention, a subject can be historically examined from where it is first mentioned in Scripture and onward. To study the creation of sin in relation to time, Genesis is where sin and time are first mentioned.

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The evening and the morning were the first day (Genesis 1:5, ed).

The First Mention of time in Genesis was Literal Time. God created The Day that began in the evening.

After establishing Literal Time, Genesis refers to a DAY that is Not Literal Time. It relates to Adam’s Judgment.

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In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Genesis 2:17, ed).

Adam did not die in Literal Time, i.e., the day that he sinned. Adam did not die in Long Time, each day for a year (Ezekiel 4:6), i.e., the year he sinned. He died in Millennial Time, i.e., within the day/1,000 years that Adam sinned.

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And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died (Genesis 5:5).

As Peter advised us not to be ignorant of God’s timing (a day with God is like 1,000 years or 1,000 years is like a day), God’s judgment of Adam aligned with God’s timing. The same is true of God’s Judgment of sin that is limited to 7,000 years: 6,000 years for Satan to tempt man, and 1,000 years for the earth to have its Sabbath rest from his temptations.

James Ussher compiled a time chart from the creation of the world to as far as he could follow it. Based on his calculations, the 6000 years have ended. But as diligent as Ussher was, he was not 100% accurate. His dating of Christ’s birth was only off by 4 years. And the biblical record that he used has a gap in Abraham’s genealogy of an undetermined length of time that skews the exact time for the ending of the 6,000 years. With that in mind, the end of the 6,000 years allotted from creation can come at any day.

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And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years (Revelation 20:3).

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Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (20:6-7, ed).

Kings and Kingdoms

The vision in Daniel 2 reveals that the stone strikes the metal idol on its feet, and pulverizes it. Then Daniel 4 reveals that the duration of the sin problem is 7,000 years. Chapter 4 repeats and enlarges aspects of Daniel 2, explaining: The idol’s total destruction is at the end of the 7,000 years. The king’s going insane for 7 times in Daniel 4, reveals that Satan’s insane rebellion against God is limited to 7,000 years, and as the king of Babylon was restored briefly in Daniel 4, Satan is bound for 1,000 years and then he is restored briefly at the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:3-7) after which he is to be completely destroyed.

Since Chapter 2 outlines history from Babylon to the end of the world, the secondary meaning of Daniel 4 is that endtime Babylon, the papacy, receives a deadly wound that is healed before the world is destroyed. And King Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian dynasty foreshadows: The four kingdoms from Babylon through Rome and four endtime kings. Daniel 7 reveals how these endtime kings arise:

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I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another (Daniel 7:2-3).

“The great kingdoms that have ruled the world obtained their dominion by conquest and revolution, and they were presented to the prophet Daniel as beasts of prey, rising when the ‘four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea’ [Daniel 7:2].”[1] “The great sea over against Lebanon” (Joshua 9:1) is the Mediterranean. Gathered waters are seas (cf Genesis 1:10). And waters depict “peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues” (Revelation 17:15, ed).

“The Holy Spirit represents worldly kingdoms under the symbol of fierce beasts of prey…”[2] These four beasts that sealed the validity of the vision in Daniel 7:1-14 symbolized four great kingdoms that arose adjacent to the Mediterranean Sea. The winged-lion depicted Babylon. The bear with three ribs in its mouth that followed Babylon was Medo-Persia. The leopard with four heads and four wings aligned with the Greek kingdom. The fourth indescribable beast that began as Imperial Rome became papal Rome: two different world powers that had their seat of authority in the city of Rome.

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[God has] employed pictures and symbols to represent to His prophets lessons which He would have them give to the people…through the sense of sight. Prophetic history was presented to Daniel and John in symbols…that he who reads might understand.[3]

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Each period of the fulfillment of prophetic history is a preparation for the advanced light which will succeed each period. As the prophecy comes to an end, there is to be a perfect whole.[4]

All that God has in prophetic history specified to be fulfilled in the past has been, and all that is yet to come in its order will be. Daniel, God’s prophet, stands in his place. John stands in his place. In the Revelation the Lion of the tribe of Judah has opened to the students of prophecy the book of Daniel, and thus is Daniel standing in his place. He bears his testimony, that which the Lord revealed to him in vision of the great and solemn events, which we must know as we stand on the very threshold of their fulfillment.[5]

As we near the close of this world’s history, the prophecies recorded by Daniel demand our special attention, as they relate to the very time in which we are living. With them should be linked the teachings of the last book of the New Testament Scriptures. Satan has led many to believe that the prophetic portions of the writings of Daniel and of John the revelator cannot be understood. But the promise is plain that special blessing will accompany the study of these prophecies. “The wise shall understand” [Daniel 12:10], was spoken of the visions of Daniel that were to be unsealed in the latter days; and of the revelation that Christ gave to His servant John for the guidance of God’s people all through the centuries, the promise is, “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein.” Revelation 1:3.[6]

Though the vision in Daniel 7 states that four great sea-beasts arose (read it), Heaven’s interpretation says nothing about the sea-beasts/kingdoms. Instead, Heaven explicitly explains that the vision is about four endtime earth-kings:

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These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth (Daniel 7:17).

Heaven is using the sea-beasts/kingdoms to prophesy about the earth-beasts/kings: To explain and enlarge the endtime meaning. This harmonizes with God’s command:

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But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased (Daniel 12:4).


[1] 4SP 276.2

[2] COL 77.1, ed

[3] HS 212.2, ed [read changed to reads]

[4] 13MR 15.3

[5] 17MR 10.2

[6] PK 547.2, ed

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JoeMo
18 hours ago, hch said:

going beyond what the Bible says and of reading his own agenda into the Bible and the lack of Biblical foundation" which is to say that there is something wrong with my seeing that a year can depict a day in prophecy.

You can believe that if you want, just like you can believe that Michael Pence is the Michael of Dan. 12 if you want.  I can believe that Nephillim were literally the children of fallen angels who had offspring by human women.  Just because people disagree with us doesn't mean their wrong.  I always maintain that I might be wrong about some things.  So might you.  Maybe Gregory is right about stuff. I agree with him that you tend to take both scripture and EGW beyond what they say. 

18 hours ago, hch said:

your refusal to see the obvious is another attempt to stifle what the Bible says

What may be "obvious" to you makes little or no sense to me.  I'm confident that it works the other way as well; and I'm okay with that.

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JoeMo
17 hours ago, hch said:

the Lord did not bless me with a 4.0 GPA in college because I was dumb or because I failed to do my studies. 

Obviously you are very intelligent.  However, my read of scripture says we learn the truth by inspiration of the Holy Spirit; not by book-learning or IQ.  I know many university brainiacs who failed miserably in the professional world because they knew a lot about their profession; they just didn't know their profession.  By book-learning, we learn a lot about God; but it is only through the Holy Spirit that we get to know God.

Your favorite author was a brain-damaged person with (maybe) a third-grade education.  She was guided by the Holy Spirit for her inspiration; not book-learning or training in critical literary/philosophical analysis.

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Gregory Matthews

HCH said in the quote below:

*  Oh!  Are you certain of that?

*  Psychology does not associate increased intelligence with a straight line increase in academic grades.

*  I have known highly intelligent people who did not get a 4.0 GPE in college.

*  I have known people with a 4.0 GPA who were not as  intelligent as people with a lower GPA.

And the Lord did not bless me with a 4.0 GPA in college because I was dumb or because I failed to do my studies. 

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