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41 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

My prayer is that we can comment with each other about the facts without becoming angry or violent, that never solves anything. Even the Bible say come let us reason together! 

In Conclusion I believe in justice for all! You and I are truly brothers and sisters for THE MOST HIGH, do let anyone or anything take that away!

ūüĎ欆 Sabbath Blessings to all!

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To respond to your last post would take more time than I am prepared to give right now.  I consider the problem to be very complex and I do not want to over simplify a solution. But, I will make a few

Here are a few more things from the HAIS: 1-When the World Food Program made significant cuts in food aid for Darfuri refugees living in two refugee camps in Eastern Chad, many of the people who

Joe: They are wrong because you have a right to your political views. Politic and racism are not the same thing. Many Blacks are Conservative Republicans they do not go along with what's happening tod

2 hours ago, phkrause said:

Jews at that time were not welcome in the USA in the early 50s and late 40s, just like what's going on at the border today!!

The differences are that there were thousands of Jews who wanted in to our country; and they mostly integrated with U.S. Society.  There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of aliens from all countries entering the U.S illegally.  I looked at the HAIS website; and I could not determine whether or not HAIS aided people to enter the country legally or illegally.  I assume it was legally.  I assume that your family probably got in here legally; and integrated into U.S society.  Many of those helping aliens into the country now are helping them get here illegally.  How fair is that to those who spent many years and much money to get here legally?  I know many Latinos who spent years legally getting their citizenship and voting rights who resent that.

My ancestors came to this country in the early 1900's from Italy.  Italians were not very welcome at the time either.  But with diligence and patience, they became naturalized citizens legally.  Why can't current refugees do the same?

After looking at your links and researching some other sites (including Fox News, believe it or not), I retract my statements about another president starting up the separation of families.  That's probably what I get for restricting my news watching to conservative outlets.  My apologies.

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Yes absolutely.  There is guilt in all races, and among all peoples.  It was not only whites conquering browns and blacks.  In Africa, blacks fought and enslaved blacks.  Muslims took slaves and trafficked slaves.  Native Americans captured slaves, and some even used them for human sacrifices.  There is plenty of guilt - down through history - to go around.   

What should we today, do about that?  We can acknowledge it.  Look realistically at history.  Try not to repeat those sins.  But we cannot begin throwing out all those of European ancestry because of what their great, great, great, great, great grandfathers did.  Even the Bible says the son shall not be punished for the sins of the father. 

I don't believe we can open our borders to the world's poor.  Nation after nation will relieve itself of their poor by pushing them towards our border.  Our economy will gradually collapse.  Our schools will be in chaos because of overcrowding.  Our health services will be so overburdened they will collapse.  There will be no rule of law because law enforcement will collapse under the burden. 

Some believe the "rich" can be taxed to pay for it all.  Nonsense!  If you took all the money from all the billionaires in the whole world, it would only pay for about 1/3 the cost of "Medicare for All".  And that's with our present population.  Currently, every citizen of the US (young and old) owes $63,000 in debt.  The "Medicare for All" will turn out to be "Medicaid for All".  If the majority of US citizens are OK with that, then they can vote for that.  But they should be fully informed concerning what they are approving. 

We must be realistic, as well as generous.  The USA is the most generous nation in history. 

I personally believe it is a good thing, that the USA approves the legal immigration of a million people a year into the US.   Should we also allow another million, two million, three million, 20 million - because we feel sympathy for them?  Can our economy and our society handle that?  Our society will be completely changed.  We currently enjoy relative peace and safety because we enjoy the rule of law.  That could change radically.  Every large city could become worse than Chicago with its warring gangs.  The chaos in our society is growing worse by the day.  Should be open the borders to more chaos? 

Should we not allow the American people to choose?  If the majority of voting citizens approve the opening of our borders, then we all must submit to that vote.  But the people should be fully informed concerning the possible consequences. 

Financial support for missionary efforts worldwide, comes primarily from the USA. 

If Satan can collapse the US economy there will be no money to support such missionary efforts.   That is one of Satan's goals.  If US citizens are so heavily taxed that they have no money left to donate for missionary or humanitarian work, that would slow the work of preaching the Gospel to all nations.   The hour is late.   We know that Christ will return in just a few years.   Each person must pray earnestly concerning these issues, before casting his/her vote. 

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9 hours ago, JoeMo said:

My ancestors came to this country in the early 1900's from Italy.  Italians were not very welcome at the time either.  But with diligence and patience, they became naturalized citizens legally.  Why can't current refugees do the same?

After looking at your links and researching some other sites (including Fox News, believe it or not), I retract my statements about another president starting up the separation of families.  That's probably what I get for restricting my news watching to conservative outlets.  My apologies.

Joe: If you go back in US history, the Irish, the Greek, the Italians and the Germans were all mistreated and hated by the English. Let's be real honest the Jews and the Catholics have been hated along with the Blacks for a long time. It was the Catholic after Kennedy became President and slowly the Jews. USA knew what Hitler was doing to the Jews and they did not want to get in the war. One ship that contain Jews they would not allow them to dock here in America. All immigrants have been mistreated and started out in the ghetto! If you would please like you said take a little time and read the history on the flux of immigrants in the last twenty years and it had to do with drugs and sex traffic. Many of the people came illegally because they were duped. They went in by trucks and other ways some even by boats. These people paid these smuggler (the did not know) to get them in not knowing they were lied to. 

Now on top of the drugs and sex traffic, the land also have had a major drought also in these countries. Many come into the cities and then the gangs tried to make their children join them and to sell drugs, killing and sex traffic. Many of the parents can't find jobs to work and the government is corrupt as well. What President Obama did was to work with the government with financial aid and with the USA embassies. Those who want to leave would go to the embassies and get all the paperwork done. The aid also was to help in getting jobs also in their countries and to bring down corruption especially with the gangs. It was working less people were coming, but the money and aid was stopped.

Dear brother it takes a lot of truth and there are many factual sites online who will provide the truth. I am glad that you check some sources provided out. I hope that you will understand that we want the truth to be heard and that is all! 

Be blessed!

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1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

In Africa, blacks fought and enslaved blacks.  Muslims took slaves and trafficked slaves.  Native Americans captured slaves, and some even used them for human sacrifices.  There is plenty of guilt - down through history - to go around.   

Rachel: This is not correct. This is what has been taught but the true history has been out since the nineties!

At first this trafficking only supplemented a trade in human beings that already existed within Europe, in which Europeans had enslaved each other. Some enslaved Africans had also reached Europe, the Middle East and other parts of the world before the mid-15th century, as a result of a trade in human beings that had also long existed in Africa.

Many of these African captives crossed the Sahara and reached Europe and other destinations from North Africa, or were transported across the Indian Ocean.

The transatlantic slave trade began during the 15th century when Portugal, and subsequently other European kingdoms, were finally able to expand overseas and reach Africa. The Portuguese first began to kidnap people from the west coast of Africa and to take those they enslaved back to Europe. BBC Ethics - Slavery

War, slave raiding, kidnapping, and politico-religious struggle accounted for the vast majority of Africans deported to the Americas. Several important wars resulted in massive enslavement, including the export of prisoners across the Atlantic, the ransoming of others, and the use of enslavement within Africa itself.

The Akan wars of the late seventeenth century and the first half of the eighteenth century were a struggle for power among states in the Gold Coast hinterland. Akwamu, Akyem, Denkyira, Fanta, and Asante groups battled for more than half a century for control of the region. By the mid-eighteenth century, Asante emerged as the dominant force.

By 1650, Oyo had become a consolidated imperial power in the interior of the Bight of Benin by defeating the Bariba and Nupe in the north and other Yoruba states to the south. The wars between various Gbe groups resulted in the rise of Dahomey and its victory over Allada in 1724. The winners occupied the port of Whydah three years later but were then forced to pay tribute to the more powerful Oyo. These wars accounted for the deportation of over a million Africans along the Bight of Benin coast.

The sixty-year period of the Kongo civil wars, ending in 1740, was responsible for the capture and enslavement of many. Among them were the followers of the Catholic martyr Beatrice of Kongo, who tried to end the wars through pacifist protest.

The spread of militant Islam across West Africa began in Senegambia during the late seventeenth century. The jihad led to two major political transformations: the emergence in the late eighteenth century of the Muslim states of Futa Jallon in the Guinea highlands and Futa Toro on the Senegal River.

The jihad movement continued into the nineteenth century, especially with the outbreak of war in 1804 in the Hausa states (northern Nigeria) under the leadership of Sheikh Usman dan Fodio. These wars in turn exacerbated political tensions in Oyo, which resulted in a Muslim uprising and the collapse of the Oyo state between 1817 and 1833. New strongholds were created at Ibadan, Abeokuta, and Ijebu, and the conflict intensified over attempts to replace or resurrect the Oyo state.

After 1700, the importation of firearms heightened the intensity of many of the wars and resulted in a great increase in the numbers of enslaved peoples. European forces intervened in some of the localized fighting and in warfare all along the Atlantic coast. They sought to obtain captives directly in battle or as political rewards for having backed the winning side. Working from their permanent colonies at Luanda, Benguela, and other coastal points, the Portuguese conducted joint military ventures into the hinterlands with their African allies.

Africans also became enslaved through non-military means. Judicial and religious sanctions and punishments removed alleged criminals, people accused of witchcraft, and social misfits through enslavement and banishment. Rebellious family members might be expelled from their homes through enslavement. Human pawns, especially children, held as collateral for debt were almost always protected from enslavement by relatives and customary practices. However, debts and the collateral for those debts were sometimes subjected to illegal demands, and pawned individuals, especially children, were sometimes "sold" or otherwise removed from the watchful eyes of the relatives and communities that had tried to safeguard their rights. The Transatlantic Slave Trade

People have war with other people since after the flood all over the world. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome Arabs (were actually Persian as we know today as Iran) and then the Middle Ages it became worst.

If you knew the history of the Persia and Parthians who are related and yes they are Aryans. These are Japheth children who like the Bible said would take over Shem's land and they did. However Elam was from Shem but was intimidate with Kush; Ham's eldest son. That's is why the Iranians are White, Brownish and dark Black. The Persian, Turks, Parthians all swiftly took over Arabia during the time of the Roman decline! Rome also moved the Arabs into Egypt and Palestine by that time Persia had already integrated and took over Arabia! History will provide the facts. Assyria and Persia sold more slaves in ancient history then even the Romans. The Aryans tribe moved into northern India and made a caste system out of the southern people who were called the Dravidians who came from Kush. The Kushites travel east  even into Australia and New Zealand.

So it was common for Afrikan people as well. But the problem that arrive was it was horrific and they took millions of slaves. They even would kidnap some of the Afrikan traders. Yes, the Afrikans did not realize that they not only were selling out their rivialing neighboring people but themselves and their land. Europe slice Afrika up like a piece of cake. Why because of the resources, these Afrikan Kings were rich with gold and precious stones of all kind plus other resources like the Rubber Plants and more. Afrika became colonized by the Europeans! So how do you think that happen? Do you think that they just gave them their land and wanted be control by the Europeans? The Dutch took South Afrika as a resort plus enslaved the people! It is a lot more than just this my friend!

The English had major problems with the Indians, first they wanted their land. Keep in mind the Indians sold them land, but they wanted all the land. They brought blankets that had smallpox and liquor that the Indians system was quickly affected! This wiped out the Indian population and they had a problem trying to enslaved them. They knew the land! There is more but time will not allow me. Chattel slavery was the worst type of slavery ever committed to one continent!

Hitler wanted to annihilate the Jews not to enslaved them! That is horrific as well!

Blessings!

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As I said:  The earth has been full of greed, lust, violence and "slavery" of one kind or or another - down through history.   Slavery is not the sin of only one race.  True, it was the "original sin" of the American colonies.  And we have paid dearly for that sin. 

Then there's the slavery to sin, with Satan as master. 

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10 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

As I said:  The earth has been full of greed, lust, violence and "slavery" of one kind or or another - down through history.   Slavery is not the sin of only one race.  True, it was the "original sin" of the American colonies.  And we have paid dearly for that sin. 

Then there's the slavery to sin, with Satan as master. 

Rachel: There is only one race! We are flesh beings and we ALL come from the Adam's! All YAHWEH did was make us like a rainbow or flowers, or grass etc. What is wrong with color all of us have color and all of us are related. You will not see me write mankind or hu-man or just men. Because the Bible in the original language does not say that. This man word has been a burden over ladies all over the world. We have been exploited, not equally paid, demar by sex and not respected at all and we birth them. YAHWEH made two beings equally, she was curse in child bearing and subject to her husband. Ever lady is not a married person! Just like there are no races! It is time to stand for all truth according to the Bible!

Blessings!

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12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Just like there are no races! It is time to stand for all truth according to the Bible!

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:28)

"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Col. 3:11)

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On 7/28/2019 at 11:21 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

As I said:  The earth has been full of greed, lust, violence and "slavery" of one kind or or another - down through history.   Slavery is not the sin of only one race.  True, it was the "original sin" of the American colonies.  And we have paid dearly for that sin. 

Then there's the slavery to sin, with Satan as master. 

Rachel: There is a difference between slavery and servitude. One you paid, the other you don't. Pick up you Bible and read:

The Israelites did what Moses had told them and asked the Egyptians for gold and silver jewelry and for clothes. YAHWEH gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, and they gave them what they asked for. So, the Israelites stripped Egypt of its wealth. Exo 12:35, 36 

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched-out arm: therefore, YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM Commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.

Lexham English Bible

And you shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and Yahweh your God brought you out with a strong hand and with an outstretched arm; therefore, Yahweh your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath. Deut 5:15 

Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith equal in value to ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 2Pe 1:1 

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ. Jude 1:1 

I am including what you just wrote Joe:

Where there is neither Greek nor (Jew), circumcision nor uncircumcision, (Barbarian), Scythian, (bond) nor (free): but THE MESSIAH is all, and in all. Col 3:11 

The ancient Afrikan Phoenician language (adopted by the Hebrews) ‚Äúeh'-bed,‚ÄĚ: means servant! And the word ‚ÄúsŐĀaŐākńĪŐāyr,‚ÄĚ a man at wages. These words have been changed to mean slavery!

Let me say this with a confirmation people who do not understand or have the true love of THE MOST HIGH cover things up. In ancient history being a servant was totally different then what the English language want to project today. You might become a servant if you could not pay a debt or between to warring tribes and yes nations. However, they were still respected, and they only remain a servant for seven years and then would go free. Servant also meant to serve especially for THE MOST HIGH! Servants were treated well and lived just like anyone else, some like Joseph could become high ranking people or even king. It happens a lot during the ancient world.

Now there were nations who were cruel and went beyond the known respect in war. Just like we have war criminals today!! Assyria was the first to move people from their own lands and replace them with others they capture during war. They were first to impale, which is a cruel way to die. As sin became more prevalent it demoralized the nations. Persia was extremely cruel and rack pain on the Hebrews. This is why the Maccabees revolted, but keep in mind Persia was taken over by one of the general of Greece!

Jew is incorrect it  is Judaeans, Barbarian is incorrect it is foreigners, bond is a person who owes a debt a servant, but Greece did started to enslave others who they felt were less superior then they were. Let me be very clear it was not Africans, they love African people and admire them. Matter of fact that is why the Greek general that took over Egypt like the Hyksos govern and acted like an Egyptian! They kept the religion and practices and even married Egyptians. They became Egyptians even though they were Greeks! The Greeks would enslave other Greeks or other children of Japheth. I provide this before! The Romans enslaved those who would give them trouble period and also would impale! The Romans major way of death was impalement and I urge you all to study this! It was not about the color of the skin, it about how you went up against them. The true historical story of Spartacus provides this fact. Free is incorrect it means citizen of the country. Greece and Rome started people to have paper to prove where they were born. They had to also be citizen like we do today of that country. The main reason because they had spread and taken over so many countries and these empires were huge they need keep accurate records of all the people.

Finally, the IsraEL were not slaves, the Egyptian king made them serve them due to fear. They still stayed in their original homes in the best area. The ate extremely well and they work and they had supervisors not taskmaster over them. Remember Moses was a Hebrew living in the palace! Why do you think it was so easy for Moses to killed him? Plus, everybody knew and there was no army after Moses. He flew because he killed an Egyptian. How did Aaron meet up with his brother if he was enslaved?They got paid even more because the harden of Pharaoh heart along with the people! They broke Egypt and they deserved it!

You want to be free, then accept the truth! Translators today use the word slave some more other a little slave in there Bibles even Hebrew Bibles. Why, to cover up the chattel slavery they did to the Afrikan people. So do you think YAHWEH want those who are messengers from HIM to be slaves? Are you a slave to HIM? I am not I serve HIM because I choose to.

We all have done things to each other and need to stop! You cannot make the truth go away it there and it is ugly! Racism is rising up its head and all on this forum how or you going to deal with? Pretend that it does not exist? Blame on someone else? Are we going to watch people be murdered? I did late last night, and I cried. This was a family festival about to close! A 15-year-old child was killed! The shooter randomly was shooting people of all ethnic background, it did not matter.

Hate crimes have increased! All of our lives are endangered are we going to sit around and hid our heads in the sand? Immigrants too are people because they are trying to come here, should they be humanized like slaves? Baltimore and all the other cities in America need federal funds. Do you think that there is just rats in Black poor people neighborhoods? Have you been to West Virginia, where extremely poor White people live with rat infestation too! Poor people all over have low quality of living and they need help! YAHWEH said to help the poor period.

I am tired and brokenhearted that we cannot see that we are falling into the depth of sin like never before. We hate each other why? The Bible says how can you love THE MOST HIGH when you hate your brother or your sister? RACISM is alive, what are we all going to do about it? If you are not racist others are and they are showing it more and more today! Stop letting the racist ones kill everybody because they hate!

Marrian

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1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

RACISM is alive, what are we all going to do about it?

Yes; and it works both ways.  When I disagree with the idealism of some people of color, I am deemed as a racist.  When I disagree with the same idealism of a caucasian, I am deemed an idiot.  At least the caucasian is responding to my disagreement of the issue.  When a person of color calls me a racist because I don't accept his/her worldview, that is a straw man and a conversation killer. To call and old white guy a racist just because I disagree with a person is racist in itself.

This is not directed at you Marrian; you are my sister in Christ and I feel a certain bond with you.  But I have been called a racist for disagreeing with some of the progressive policies being bantered about; like open borders, free Medicare for all, a $1,000 living stipend for all Americans, reparations to African Americans and Native Americans, free education for all, forgiveness of all student debt, allowing Sharia Law instead on U.S. law in certain predominantly Muslim neighborhoods, government sponsored abortion right up to the point of birth, curtailment of energy production, "green deal", etc.  Resistance against socialism, energy infrastructure destruction, and gov't sponsored abortion at the cost of massive tax increases to pay for it all is NOT racism; it's common economic and social sense.

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7 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The ate extremely well and they work and they had supervisors not taskmaster over them.

There is a video titled "Evidence for the Exodus".  It is available on amazon.  One part of that video shows an archeological dig of a Hebrew "city" (in Goshen), from aprox that time period.  The bones showed poor nutrition and early death.  The bones showed stress marks of very heavy work.  

I believe the family of Joseph did eat well for a time, but then finally sold themselves to Pharaoh for food and became enslaved. 

Concerning slaves owned by the Israelites:  The LORD said to Moses:

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have--from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.  Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who sojourn among you, and their families who are with you which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.  And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession;  they shall be your permanent slaves.  But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor."  Leviticus 25:44-46

This is the LORD telling Moses that Israelites could buy slaves, and those slaves would not be set free at 7 years, or at the Jubilee year.  They could be "inherited" as a "possession".   Only fellow Hebrews were to be set free at 7 years, or at the Jubilee.  NOT slaves who were non-Hebrew. 

Interesting I think.  Here is Yahweh allowing for slavery. 

 

 

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The rich have always dominated and used the poor.  Jesus railed against it back in His day.  Called them hypocrites when they offered their sacrifices.  "The poor you have with you always."   Doesn't mean we should not try to help - but don't expect to cure the problem. 

We sympathize with the poor.  We want to "fix" the problem.  But ongoing handouts don't really help.  They prolong the problem.  They create dependency.  And dependency opens the door for government control.  

Give a man a fish - he will be hungry the next day.   Teach a man to fish (and give him a fishing pole).  He will feed himself and his family.  He may even teach others to fish.   He may even start a business. 

And in case you didn't know:

The 13th Amendment abolished slavery.

Republican Support 100%    Democrat Support 23%

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican

The 14th Amendment granted Citizenship to Freed Slaves

Republican Support 94%   Democrat support 0%

The 15th Amendment granted the Right to Vote for all Citizens

Republican Support 100%   Democrat Support 0%

 

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2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

There is a video titled "Evidence for the Exodus".  It is available on amazon.  One part of that video shows an archeological dig of a Hebrew "city" (in Goshen), from aprox that time period.  The bones showed poor nutrition and early death.  The bones showed stress marks of very heavy work.  

I believe the family of Joseph did eat well for a time, but then finally sold themselves to Pharaoh for food and became enslaved. 

Concerning slaves owned by the Israelites:  The LORD said to Moses:

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have--from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.  Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who sojourn among you, and their families who are with you which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.  And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession;  they shall be your permanent slaves.  But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor."  Leviticus 25:44-46

This is the LORD telling Moses that Israelites could buy slaves, and those slaves would not be set free at 7 years, or at the Jubilee year.  They could be "inherited" as a "possession".   Only fellow Hebrews were to be set free at 7 years, or at the Jubilee.  NOT slaves who were non-Hebrew. 

Interesting I think.  Here is Yahweh allowing for slavery. 

 

 

Rachel: These videos are bias and you need to read your Bible. When Jacob went to Egypt:

 Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen. The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle. Gen 47:1

 

A district in Egypt where Jacob and his family settled, and in which they remained till the Exodus. It is called "the land of Goshen," and also simply "Goshen," and "the land of Rameses,", for the towns Pithom and Rameses lay within its borders; also, Zoan or Tanis. It lay on the east of the Nile, and apparently not far from the royal residence. It was "the best of the land." Gen 47:6, 10, 11, 28-29, 31, 37¬† Ex 3:22; 11:2; 12:35, 36 Psa 78:12 Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary ‚Äď Goshen

So, let's look at these five scenes that Moses reveals to us in the passage. First, in verses 1-6, in verses 1-6, we see this interview between the sons of Jacob and the Pharaoh of Egypt and we are struck again by the kindness of Pharaoh. This is not how you would have written propaganda against your enemy. This is another testimony to the truth and of the inerrancy of God's holy Word. Here we are told again of the kindness Pharaoh. If we were writing propaganda in a time of oppression, we would have written all the history of Egypt as adversarial against our people. But Moses pauses here to remind us of the kindness of Pharaoh. Reformed Theological Seminary

Slavery did not play such a great role in ancient Egypt as in some other countries. However, slaves were found in all households of rich and noble Egyptians. The foreign wars brought to Egypt many prisoners who became slaves. Generally speaking, many of them fared well in Egypt and as household servants had an easier life than they had known as free citizens in their home countries. In fact, many of them lived an easier life than the Egyptian peasant, some of them coming to wealth and honor. The Twenty-second Dynasty kings of the 10th century, for example, were the descendants of Libyan slaves who had advanced first to full-fledged citizens, then to local rulers and army commanders, and finally to the occupancy of the throne. SDA Bible Commentary Vol. 1, p. 153

 

Language is not static but, in fact, changes over time. Culture, demography, and historical circumstance all influence how societies define the words they use. Thus, for a proper reading of ancient texts, it is imperative for modern readers to take into account the way in which a given term was defined in the ancient context.

The word ‚Äúslave,‚ÄĚ as used in Old Testament text, is a term often misunderstood by contemporary readers of the Bible because contemporary readers seek to understand the biblical slave system by overlaying a modern definition upon it. One scholar has noted, ‚ÄúThe problems attending the use of the term slavery are basic to the very nature of language. The meaning of the term ‚Äėslavery‚Äô is determined not only by the spoken or literary setting, but also by the effective history of a given people.‚ÄĚ Modern notions of slavery are complicated by the fact that in many ancient societies, the term ‚Äúslave‚ÄĚ was used to refer to many different forms of servile conditions, not just the chattel slave familiar to modern readers of the Bible. Slave Systems of the Old Testament and the American South: A Study In Contrasts Nathan Andersen

Even still these scholar used the word slavery instead of servant. Which is totally wrong and it was not use in the ancient world.

Word History:¬†The derivation of the word¬†slave¬†encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words¬†slave¬†and¬†Slav¬†are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word¬†slave¬†first appears in English around 1290, spelled¬†sclave.¬†The spelling is based on Old French¬†esclave¬†from Medieval Latin¬†sclavus,¬†"Slav, slave," first recorded around 800.¬†Sclavus¬†comes from Byzantine Greek¬†sklabos¬†(pronounced skl√§ÓÄüvŇćs) "Slav," which appears around 580.¬†Sklavos¬†approximates the Slavs' own name for themselves, the¬†Slovńõnci,¬†surviving in English¬†Slovene¬†and¬†Slovenian.¬†The spelling of English¬†slave,¬†closer to its original Slavic form, first appears in English in the 1500s. Slavs became slaves around the beginning of the ninth century when the Holy Roman Empire tried to stabilize a German-Slav frontier. By the 1100s, stabilization had given way to wars of expansion and extermination that did not end until 1410, when the Poles crushed the knights of the Teutonic Order at Grunwald in north-central Poland. ¬∑ As far as the Slavs' own self-designation goes, its meaning is, understandably, better than "slave"; it comes from the Indo-European root¬†*kleu-,¬†whose basic meaning is "to hear" and occurs in many derivatives meaning "renown, fame." The Slavs are thus "the famous people." Slavic names ending in¬†-slav¬†incorporate the same word, such as Czech¬†Bohu-slav,¬†"God's fame," Russian¬†Msti-slav,¬†"vengeful fame," and Polish¬†Stani-slaw,¬†"famous for withstanding (enemies)."¬†The American Heritage¬ģ Dictionary of the English Language

Oh the webs of lies that are weave! Truth will be reveal! You have to research it is because  sin wants to triumph with lies. Remember this the reason why none of the ones who let Egypt did not make it to the promised land because they consistently moan to return to Egypt.  Meat and other food were constantly on their mind. Who wants to go back into slavery ?Plus a mix group also left Egypt, were they slaves too? Don't believe me study your Bible, the truth is there!

Marrian with blessings to all!

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10 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Yes; and it works both ways.  When I disagree with the idealism of some people of color, I am deemed as a racist.  When I disagree with the same idealism of a caucasian, I am deemed an idiot.  At least the caucasian is responding to my disagreement of the issue.  When a person of color calls me a racist because I don't accept his/her worldview, that is a straw man and a conversation killer. To call and old white guy a racist just because I disagree with a person is racist in itself.

This is not directed at you Marrian; you are my sister in Christ and I feel a certain bond with you.  But I have been called a racist for disagreeing with some of the progressive policies being bantered about; like open borders, free Medicare for all, a $1,000 living stipend for all Americans, reparations to African Americans and Native Americans, free education for all, forgiveness of all student debt, allowing Sharia Law instead on U.S. law in certain predominantly Muslim neighborhoods, government sponsored abortion right up to the point of birth, curtailment of energy production, "green deal", etc.  Resistance against socialism, energy infrastructure destruction, and gov't sponsored abortion at the cost of massive tax increases to pay for it all is NOT racism; it's common economic and social sense.

Joe: They are wrong because you have a right to your political views. Politic and racism are not the same thing. Many Blacks are Conservative Republicans they do not go along with what's happening today also many White Conservative as well! I respect their ideology even though I made not completely agree! Cumming like me stood up for his friend against the young Congress lady from Senegal. No one should combine the two and I will stand along with you and tell them they are wrong. 

There are some Black myths that I do not accept at all. I have friends who thing that all Black were Hebrew, that is not true at all. Were Hebrews intimate with Afrikan, yes! I don't agree that all White people are evil or devils. If it wasn't for White people, I wouldn't be free and I thank them. You cannot hate even the ones who committed slavery! But we must realize that people do hate. Do Black people hate yes of course. Some hate for what happened to them by Whites when they were growing up. I have one here in my church, you know I lived in the south! I told him the other day, brother E you have to let that go and forgive them. The Bible said to love your enemies. It is hard but with prayer and faith things change, I did! 

What you need to do if you don't mind is to pray for them. Tell them you love them in spite of what they say! There are some you just have to move on! But you keep praying and YAHWEH will show you the way.

Blessings!

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12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

you need to read your Bible.

I have, very carefully and avidly - for 40 years.  I still do, and will continue to read my Bible.  You are sounding pompous Marrian, like you're the only one who studies. 

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I think I've said that Joseph's family faired well in Egypt for many years.  Only during the final years were they pushed into forced labor for the Egyptians.

The Bible calls it "cruel bondage",

Exodus 6:9 "So Moses spoke thus to the sons of Israel, but they did not listen to Moses on account of their despondency and cruel bondage."

Exodus 13:3  "Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten."

Exodus 13:14  "By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:"

LXA  Exodus 20:2 "I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Pharaoh (the Pharaoh of the Exodus) did not treat the Hebrews well at all.  His soldiers threw baby boys to the crocodiles, as a cruel method of birth control.  Hebrews could not just leave.  They were held captive.  They were forced to do hard labor, for little "wages" if any.

Just because Aaron was able to sneak away to meet Moses, because the LORD had commanded him to, does not mean that Israel - in mass, could have vacated Egypt.  Notice that Aaron's wife and family didn't go with him. 

LXA  Exodus 5:2  "And Pharao said, 'Who is he that I should hearken to his voice, so that I should send away the children of Israel? I do not know the Lord, and I will not let Israel go."

The Hebrews were held captive by the army of Pharaoh, and were forced to do hard labor.   That's either slavery, or some cruel punishment for crimes committed.  

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There has been some discussion of racism in this thread.  I cannot deny that overt racism does still exist; but not like it did 50 years ago.  In my mind, racism is a conscious decision to look down on a different race, ethnic group, or religion.  A person is unreasonably convinced that other classes of people are "less" than the class they belong to.   KKK and Nazis come to mind. 

Then there is racial insensitivity and ignorance.  People say things out of ignorance of another's culture.  I brought up an example of some African American friends who were offended when we invited them for a picnic.  They explained to me the historical origin of the word picnic, referring to lynchings in the south.  I had no idea.  I wasn't being a racist; I was ignorant (and/or maybe they were being overly sensitive).  We remain friends with these people, but there are some who would still call my choice of words as "racist".

Then there is fake racism; as was raised recently when an important person was critical of living conditions in Baltimore in his usual extravagant fashion; and it was called "racism".  The comment had to do with how poor living conditions were - especially in minority neighborhoods; and how little city government was doing in response.  The rich white folks still had all city services. Yet certain political opponents called it "racism"; when the comment had nothing to do with race; but with the incompetence of city government .

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4 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I think I've said that Joseph's family faired well in Egypt for many years.  Only during the final years were they pushed into forced labor for the Egyptians.

The Bible calls it "cruel bondage",

Exodus 6:9 "So Moses spoke thus to the sons of Israel, but they did not listen to Moses on account of their despondency and cruel bondage."

Exodus 13:3  "Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten."

Exodus 13:14  "By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:"

LXA  Exodus 20:2 "I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Pharaoh (the Pharaoh of the Exodus) did not treat the Hebrews well at all.  His soldiers threw baby boys to the crocodiles, as a cruel method of birth control.  Hebrews could not just leave.  They were held captive.  They were forced to do hard labor, for little "wages" if any.

Just because Aaron was able to sneak away to meet Moses, because the LORD had commanded him to, does not mean that Israel - in mass, could have vacated Egypt.  Notice that Aaron's wife and family didn't go with him. 

LXA  Exodus 5:2  "And Pharao said, 'Who is he that I should hearken to his voice, so that I should send away the children of Israel? I do not know the Lord, and I will not let Israel go."

The Hebrews were held captive by the army of Pharaoh, and were forced to do hard labor.   That's either slavery, or some cruel punishment for crimes committed.  

Rachel and Joe: Do you think that the sons of Jacob was without sin?

I, YAHWEH thy ELOHEI, am a ZEALOUS EL, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate ME; Ex 20:5 hub.com lexicon

Reading it in the correct meaning is was severe work and in Gen 15:13 the word is to make them humble. Levi and Simon killed all those men, Reuben slept with his father's concubine! Judah lie to his daughter in law so trick him and she got twins from. YAHSHUA came through her seed! His own brothers sold Joseph into bondage, it was slavery back then. So the sins of the father was meted out on the children. Those children wanted to go back to Egypt so you need to know yes, they work hard but not like you think. The Egyptian was getting them the straw at first, but when Moses came, the Pharaoh made them get their own straw! These very one did not make it to the promised land, they all die in the wilderness and their children went in. Only Caleb and Joshua went in!

Do you think that the Afrikan people needed to be humble, yes indeed they did! However not the it was done and it was not by YAHWEH! What happen with the Hebrews HE said it would happen. They got paid for their work and YAHWEH broke the bank of Egypt. Egypt knew YAHWEH if you truly understood the lie Abraham did. YAHWEH knew the Pharaoh would  obey HIM that was also important. Remember a mixed crowd left out of Egypt and join with them!

The problem I keep telling you both is the cover up to make it appear worse then what it was. The Egyptians did not perform the type of severity that is done today. These people stayed in their land. But a lie was spread online that the Pharaoh and Egyptians, the Hyksos did not like domesticated animals that's why he moved then there. That's a lie! They became rulers over Pharaoh animals and he kept them close to him. Even under the new Pharaoh they kept their land and they could move around freely. Joshua and Aaron did and most likely others. They ate well and Moses was known to be a Hebrew. He moved up in rank even so and could have been a Pharaoh!

Esther would have died like her people base on the strict law of Persia! Time had change Persia was much more severe then the Egyptians ever was! Pharaoh had crafted workers and he and the Egyptians did not have to do the work themselves. They lost their lives going after the children of IsraEL!

Marrian be bless!

 

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22 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Persia was much more severe then the Egyptians ever was!

That's not the way I read it.  Wasn't it the Medes and Persians that conquered Babylon?  Wasn't Cyrus - a Persian king - that was prophesied in Isaiah to liberate Israel?

"That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. "(Isaiah 44:8)

Wasn't it the King of Persia who saved the Jews in the Book of Esther?

"Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the Lord God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The Lord his God be with him, and let him go up." (2 Chron. 36:23)

"But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God." (Ezra 5:13)

Wasn't it King Ahasuerus who saved the Jews from being slaughtered in the days of Esther?

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5 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

That's not the way I read it.  Wasn't it the Medes and Persians that conquered Babylon?  Wasn't Cyrus - a Persian king - that was prophesied in Isaiah to liberate Israel?

"That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. "(Isaiah 44:8)

Wasn't it the King of Persia who saved the Jews in the Book of Esther?

"Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the Lord God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The Lord his God be with him, and let him go up." (2 Chron. 36:23)

"But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God." (Ezra 5:13)

Wasn't it King Ahasuerus who saved the Jews from being slaughtered in the days of Esther?

Joe: You know I could tell but I prefer to let historical account speak for itself:

Herodotus’ account agrees with the Nabonidus Chronicle up to a great degree. Herodotus states that Harpagus, a Median nobleman, encouraged Cyrus to rise up against Astyages, who had wronged him in the past. Harpagus sought support from among the other Median nobles, who were also unhappy with Astyages' rule. Astyages, upon hearing about Cyrus' rebellion, appointed the same Harpagus to lead the Median army against Cyrus. When the Median and Persian armies met, Harpagus and the other noblemen crossed over to Cyrus as planned. All sources agree that Cyrus spared Astyages’ life. If we are to believe Ctesias, Cyrus even adopted Astyages as his father and married his daughter Amytis, presenting himself as the rightful successor of Astyages as king of the Medes. It is often assumed that Cyrus took over all the lands that had been conquered by the Medes, which according to Herodotus encompassed all of Asia except for Assyria, however, recent research concludes that the territory of the Medes was much smaller or even that there was no Median Empire at all. Still, it seems likely that Cyrus’ power and prestige on the Iranian Plateau increased greatly after this victory. The Ancient History Encyclopedia

As, I have stated Persia is Iran and Iran and the Medes are Aryan people. Persia took over Medes under Cyrus so the Empire became the Persian Empire. Cyrus set Darius over Babylon which became one of his provinces. Many non believing scholar who try to go against the Book of Daniel cannot dispute the chronicle of Babylon itself.

According to historical records a man named Gubaru, a Mede, was appointed by King Cyrus to be ruler in Babylon at this time.  Gubaru was born in 601 B.C. which would make him 62 years old when he invaded Babylon. Exactly the age found Daniel 5:31.

      The Babylonian record of Darius the Mede conquest of Babylon is given below: "In the month of Tishri, at the time when Cyrus battled the forces of Akkad in Opis on the Tigris river, the citizens of Akkad revolted against him, but Nabonidus scattered his opposition with a great slaughter. On the 14th day, Sippar was taken without a fight. Nabonidus then fled for his life. On the 16th day, Gubaru (Darius the Mede) the leader of Gutium along with the army of Cyrus entered Babylon without any opposition. Later they arrested Nabonidus when he returned to Babylon. BM35382

The Persian Empire stretch all the way to India! 

At its height, the Persian Empire stretched from Europe‚Äôs Balkan Peninsula‚ÄĒin parts of what is present day Bulgaria, Romania, and Ukraine‚ÄĒto the Indus River Valley in northwest India and south to Egypt.¬†www.history.com/topics/ancient-middle-east/persian-empire

Haman was made the next in command to King Ahasuerus. When he went out to the gates before the people, everyone bow down to him except Mordecai! He hated him and he sneakily went to the King to enact a law to kill all the Judeans throughout the provinces. Once a King of Persia law makes a degree, he cannot break it. Mordecai got in touch with Esther and got her to realize that this degree or law would mean she would be put to death also. That's why she had to go before the King for her and her people. At the second banquet she told her husband the King what Haman was up to. He could not change the law, but he made another law that the Judean could arm themselves and fight back.

Wherein the king granted the Judeans which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey. The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies. The Judeans  had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour. And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Judeans had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Judeans; for the fear of the Judeans fell upon them. Esther 8:11, 13, 16, 17

I pray that you understand it better now!

Blessings Marrian!

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Hi Marrian,

I saw nothing in your post above that indicated that Persia was more brutal to Israel than Egypt.  Regardless of what secular history teaches, I choose to believe the Bible narrative.  Even though Persia did not "release" the Jews from serving the Persian Empire, they allowed them - even helped them - to practice their own faith and return to their homeland.  I have even considered the possibility that Cyrus may have even been a believer in Yahweh.

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On 7/29/2019 at 8:25 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

The rich have always dominated and used the poor.  Jesus railed against it back in His day.  Called them hypocrites when they offered their sacrifices.  "The poor you have with you always."   Doesn't mean we should not try to help - but don't expect to cure the problem. 

We sympathize with the poor.  We want to "fix" the problem.  But ongoing handouts don't really help.  They prolong the problem.  They create dependency.  And dependency opens the door for government control.  

Give a man a fish - he will be hungry the next day.   Teach a man to fish (and give him a fishing pole).  He will feed himself and his family.  He may even teach others to fish.   He may even start a business. 

And in case you didn't know:

The 13th Amendment abolished slavery.

Republican Support 100%    Democrat Support 23%

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican

The 14th Amendment granted Citizenship to Freed Slaves

Republican Support 94%   Democrat support 0%

The 15th Amendment granted the Right to Vote for all Citizens

Republican Support 100%   Democrat Support 0%

 

Rachel: You know what I am unhappy about is when we do not know the actual history or truth.

The Republican Party of Lincoln was the north abolitionist. They were the one that help with the underground railroad and the one who really push Lincoln into making the decision for the war. The Democratic Party fought to keep slavery. The Parties begin to switch slowly, first with T Roosevelt and the change ended with Lyndon Johnson. I suggest you read your history before making all the unfounded statements you are claiming!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/article/How-Democrats-and-Republicans-switched-beliefs-9226115.php

https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html

https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa? by Andrew GELMAN

The above are just the few! The Republican Party of today was never the Lincoln Republican Party. Knowing history is important and to try to downgrade each other is not worth it. It is time to stop using either party for the wrongs we have done. There is not justification for it at all! All of us will be judge on our own merits and not by a party that we are affiliated with. The Pharisees started this same problem in IsraEL and YAHSHUA said not to hold on to the doctrines and  traditions of flesh beings. Whatever you choose to do don't blame it on a party, blame it on yourself! The Bible said the blind leading the blind. Stand up for truth and justice that's it! I don't agree with both parties in a lot of situations. But, I believe in justice, helping the poor, allowing people to make their own choice with their bodies. We all need to stop trying to judge one another and work on ourselves. 

I will call sin by its right name and I am not looking for what people think! I am doing it because I love everyone even my enemies. But we cannot allow people to hurt children that is going to far. The Bible said the love of many will wax cold and I see it now. My heart and mind is to get ready for YAHSHUA to come and to spread the Gospel. I must let people be aware of the incorrection in the Bible and to provide the true history of the Bible and the world we live in. That's my profession as a Historian that serve THE MOST HIGH! Then it is up to each individual to make their own choice!

Blessings!

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On 7/31/2019 at 11:39 AM, JoeMo said:

Hi Marrian,

I saw nothing in your post above that indicated that Persia was more brutal to Israel than Egypt.  Regardless of what secular history teaches, I choose to believe the Bible narrative.  Even though Persia did not "release" the Jews from serving the Persian Empire, they allowed them - even helped them - to practice their own faith and return to their homeland.  I have even considered the possibility that Cyrus may have even been a believer in Yahweh.

Go back over what I wrote. I stated that one of the generals of Alexander the Great took over the rule of Persia. Persia remain even today as Iran, but because of the Greeks it was called the Syrian Seleucids period and they were very cruel to Jerusalem.

 https://www.mesacc.edu/~thoqh49081/summer2014/270/context4.html

There are others historical accounts that you should read.

Blessings!

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Stinsonmarri:  Thank you for the citation above.  For the interest of others, the following is information about the school that Stinsonmarri cited:

*  It is Mesa Community College (MCC), located in Mesa, AZ.

*  MCC is a 2-year Jr. college that offers degrees both on-line, and on site.

*  MCC is accredited, as a Jr. College, both by the Department of Education and  by the regional accrediting association that covers AZ.

*  MCC has been in operation for about 56 years.

*  I assume  that the specific article that Stinsonmarri cited was an article written in 2014?  I do not know whether it was written by a student as part of an assignment, or was written by one of  the MCC staff.

 

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2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I stated that one of the generals of Alexander the Great took over the rule of Persia.

So it was under the rulership of the Greeks - not the Persians - where the Jews were treated horribly.  The predominant type of the antichrist - Antiochus Epiphanes - was a Greek. The Persians had no choice but to attack Israel when they were under tyrannical Greek rulership.  They either obeyed or they themselves would feel the wrath of the Greek forces.

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