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Gregory Matthews

Under Law

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JoeMo
2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Has God ever been called "the forgiver" ? 

I couldn't find any place where the explicit word "forgiver" was found in scripture.  There are many places where God or Jesus forgives sins; and plenty of other places where NT writers said God forgives sin.  Doesn't that imply that God is "the forgiver"; since only He can forgive sins?

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8thdaypriest
On 8/8/2019 at 7:19 PM, Gustave said:

Isaiah 60, 18: Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

Revelation 21, 22: And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

The ancient Lunar Month, the Gregorian week will be irrelevant - those who make it will be eternally inside God's Rest.  Let's pray for each other that we all make it. 

I can't agree that the weekly cycle, monthly cycle - from creation, "will become irrelevant". 

If I read it right, WITHIN THE HOLY CITY there is constant light.  So no sun/moon day/night.  Everywhere outside the city, there will be cycles of day and night.  The new moon will be visible, as will the full moon for the Feasts of Passover and Sakkot. 

Isaiah 66:23 "From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. (NIV)

When this earth was created, the LORD called it "very good".  It turned on its axis.  The sun, the moon, the stars, were all part of the "very good" creation.  It appears the "new earth" will involve most of the same bodies. 

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8thdaypriest

Heppenstall says Paul's "second use" of the expression "under law" is in his descriptions of the Christian experience.  By grace we are not "under the law" - which means that "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Romans 6:12-14). 

Romans 6:12 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. (NIV)

In this verse (if I'm reading it right) "under the law" means "under the law" of sin - with sin having the dominion.  

It appears (to me) - in Paul's view, that sin had dominion over men (it controlled men) UNTIL Christ came and died to set us free from that dominion, through the indwelling of His Spirit.  That IS the New Covenant Promise - that He would put His spirit within us and then we would keep His Law (not because we are controlled, but because we are enabled to do so).  

The key might be in Paul's use of the words "another law".  The OTHER LAW would be the irresistible law of sin - the dominion of sin over mankind.  We are free to choose between the two, and we must choose between the two.  There is no in between.  No man can serve two masters. 

According to Paul, without Christ one doesn't really have a choice - one is not able to control one's thoughts or behavior, even when he knows the behavior is killing him, or will soon cut him off from God.   Sin is an overpowering addiction.  "Who will deliver me from this body of death?"  The answer of course - is Christ within.  As Paul said, "For me to live is Christ."  

I had not seen this meaning before - of "under the law".  But it does make sense. 

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8thdaypriest
1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Heppenstall says Paul's "second use" of the expression "under law" is in his descriptions of the Christian experience.  By grace we are not "under the law" - which means that "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Romans 6:12-14). 

Romans 6:12 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. (NIV)

In this verse (if I'm reading it right) "under the law" means "under the law" of sin - with sin having the dominion.  

It appears (to me) - in Paul's view, that sin had dominion over men (it controlled men) UNTIL Christ came and died to set us free from that dominion, through the indwelling of His Spirit.  That IS the New Covenant Promise - that He would put His spirit within us and then we would keep His Law (not because we are controlled, but because we are enabled to do so).  

The key might be in Paul's use of the words "another law".  The OTHER LAW would be the irresistible law of sin - the dominion of sin over mankind.  We are free to choose between the two, and we must choose between the two.  There is no in between.  No man can serve two masters. 

According to Paul, without Christ one doesn't really have a choice - one is not able to control one's thoughts or behavior, even when he knows the behavior is killing him, or will soon cut him off from God.   Sin is an overpowering addiction.  "Who will deliver me from this body of death?"  The answer of course - is Christ within.  As Paul said, "For me to live is Christ."  

I had not seen this meaning before - of "under the law".  But it does make sense. 

Under the law of sin's dominion, the "first covenant" was indeed "a ministry of death written on stones" (2Cor 3:7).  Why? 

Answer:  Because they could not obey it in their own strength.  The dominion of sin was too strong over them.  That description of "the Ten" did not mean they should be discarded.  It just meant they were unattainable - without Christ within.  Now - under the "new covenant" The Ten are a promise of what He will do - in us.   

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8thdaypriest

When an Evangelical says "We are not under the law", what they mean is "every law or command in the OT is no longer binding".  What they mean is, "the Sabbath of the 7th Day is no longer relevant or binding". 

When an Evangelical says, "We are not under the law", I will immediately ask, "not under what law"? 

Paul says we are to fulfill "the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).  Paul said that he served the law of God (with his mind) and delighted in the law of God

Paul says, "the carnal mind . . . is not subject to the law of God" (Rom 8:7).   

Guess I could ask them if they have "the carnal mind", since they regard themselves as "not subject to the law of God". lol
 

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8thdaypriest

I am now seeing clearly that Paul used the term "the law" when writing about at least four distinct kinds/types of law.

1. the moral law of God (which is also "the law of Christ")

2.  the schoolmaster law - also called the prophetic law, or the ceremonial law, which was to culminate in Christ, to lead us to Christ         Jesus was "born under" this law.

3.  the law of sin and death - "sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" - "The wages of sin is death."
This is the dominion of sin over the carnal/fleshly nature, which ends in death. 

4.  the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ

Addressing each law separately:

1.  We will be judged by Christ, based upon our works, with "the law of God" as the measuring standard.  By that standard, every human being is guilty of sin - except Jesus Christ.

2.  Persons of faith - "are no longer under" this law (Gal 3:25).  Paul regarded the Jews of his day as "under" this law. 

3.  Believers are set free from this law - by Christ.  Our sins will not cause our eternal death.  Even if we die, we will be "set free" from death - by Christ.  

4.  We are set free by this law - IF we are "in Jesus Christ"

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8thdaypriest

What law does the Sabbath fall under?  Is it prophetic law?  Does it fall neatly under "the schoolmaster"?  Or is it part of the moral law of God?  SDAs put it squarely under the moral law.  Evangelicals and Catholics put it under "the schoolmaster". 

I put it under both - prophetic and moral.  I put it under "the everlasting covenant".  That's the one that Adam broke in the first place. 

Isaiah 24:5 "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."

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8thdaypriest

So which law is it, that the Gentiles "have not" ?  Would it be "the law of sin and death"?  Or the moral law?

 Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, (NAS).

How can anyone "do instinctively" what the Law requires?  I don't understand how that is possible.

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JoeMo
3 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

What law does the Sabbath fall under?  Is it prophetic law?  Does it fall neatly under "the schoolmaster"?  Or is it part of the moral law of God? ... I put it under both - prophetic and moral.

I agree.  It was one of the 10 (the moral law). If there are 2 things God punished Israel for, it was worshipping idols (breaking Commandments 1 and 2) and breaking the Sabbath.

BUT - I have a hard time justifying that the Sabbath is binding on all - particularly Gentiles.  I know many people who I consider to be better Christians than I am who worship on Sunday.

Another thing I wonder about is just how "binding" are the 10? I read the parable of the woman caught in adultery; and how no one was qualified to throw the first stone but Jesus.  Did He who wrote the Law that said "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and that adulterers should be stoned to death break His own law by giving her a pass?  Or was it an act of mercy; and an example of the grace to be given to those who believe and repent?

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Gustave
10 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So which law is it, that the Gentiles "have not" ?  Would it be "the law of sin and death"?  Or the moral law?

 Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, (NAS).

How can anyone "do instinctively" what the Law requires?  I don't understand how that is possible.

The Moral Law of God IS INSTINCTIVE. That's why it's called the Moral Law.

An Individual who has received ZERO education in the Christian Faith knows it's wrong to steal, murder, disrespect their parents, sleep with someone else's wife or husband, etc. That same individual who has received ZERO religious instruction pertaining to Judaism would not instinctively know to avoid eating shrimp or lobsters because THAT type of thing is our of the ceremonial law, which REQUIRES being informed of the various prohibitions. This would include the specific day one would set aside to rest. 

It's rather quite simple.

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Gustave
On 8/18/2019 at 3:46 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I can't agree that the weekly cycle, monthly cycle - from creation, "will become irrelevant". 

If I read it right, WITHIN THE HOLY CITY there is constant light.  So no sun/moon day/night.  Everywhere outside the city, there will be cycles of day and night.  The new moon will be visible, as will the full moon for the Feasts of Passover and Sakkot. 

Isaiah 66:23 "From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. (NIV)

When this earth was created, the LORD called it "very good".  It turned on its axis.  The sun, the moon, the stars, were all part of the "very good" creation.  It appears the "new earth" will involve most of the same bodies. 

You're suggesting that in the new heaven and new earth the saved will exit the new Jerusalem and look at all the dead bodies? Expand on that if you would.

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JoeMo
6 hours ago, Gustave said:

An Individual who has received ZERO education in the Christian Faith knows it's wrong to steal, murder, disrespect their parents, sleep with someone else's wife or husband, etc.

I don't know about that.  People justify adultery, theft, and even murder all the time.  Children disobey parents with impunity, people bear false witness against each other (especially in politics) with no qualms whatsoever.  Honor killings and martyring Christians are "honorable" in some Middle Eastern countries, and offering an honored  guest  sex as a form of hospitality is totally acceptable in some cultures.  The OT is rife with stories of sex and human sacrifice as sacraments and acts of "holiness" in some pagan cultures.  One has to have a moral compass to determine right from wrong; and the 10 provide that moral compass.

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Gustave
1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I don't know about that.  People justify adultery, theft, and even murder all the time.  Children disobey parents with impunity, people bear false witness against each other (especially in politics) with no qualms whatsoever.  Honor killings and martyring Christians are "honorable" in some Middle Eastern countries, and offering an honored  guest  sex as a form of hospitality is totally acceptable in some cultures.  The OT is rife with stories of sex and human sacrifice as sacraments and acts of "holiness" in some pagan cultures.  One has to have a moral compass to determine right from wrong; and the 10 provide that moral compass.

That’s how it works, the first lie one tells in a series of lies is always the smallest. Over time one becomes deadened or accustomed to sin. The fact that individuals exist who have become deaf to natural law is hardly a valid argument that natural or moral law doesn’t exist - it’s simply a conformation / fulfillment of Sacred Scripture. 

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8thdaypriest
18 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I agree.  It was one of the 10 (the moral law). If there are 2 things God punished Israel for, it was worshipping idols (breaking Commandments 1 and 2) and breaking the Sabbath.

BUT - I have a hard time justifying that the Sabbath is binding on all - particularly Gentiles.  I know many people who I consider to be better Christians than I am who worship on Sunday.

Another thing I wonder about is just how "binding" are the 10? I read the parable of the woman caught in adultery; and how no one was qualified to throw the first stone but Jesus.  Did He who wrote the Law that said "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and that adulterers should be stoned to death break His own law by giving her a pass?  Or was it an act of mercy; and an example of the grace to be given to those who believe and repent?

To say that one of God's laws is not "binding" - is too vague.  By "not binding", do you mean unnecessary, not good, not really one of God's commandments,  .....   I think you mean necessary for eternal life - salvational.  

Something is salvational, only if one knows and understands that it is the will of God. 

"All have sinned" - knowingly or not.   The sins of the ignorant are not counted against them.  "If you were blind, you would have no sin."

One may live an entire lifetime in ignorance - say of the Sabbath, that the LORD really has appointed the Sabbath His day, while believing entirely that Jesus the Son of God died for our sins. 

Willful ignorance - for convenience sake, or lust sake, etc, is another subject.  Sins committed because of willful ignorance, are counted.  "Because you say 'we see', your sin remains."

Known sin must be confessed as sin against the LORD, (not just sin against others) and subsequent behavior must change. 

There is a grey area between those two.   The young woman who is forced by circumstances into fornication - for instance.  Or the starving man who steals a loaf of bread.  The terrified man who lies to protect his family from Nazi thugs, or the one who bows to a ruler claiming to be divine, to avoid being sent to a prison camp. 

Then there are the folks who are trying to "be good", but fail of perfect obedience. 

People who want everything to be black or white, pure sin or pure righteousness, are not seeing things as they are.  They want to share somehow in the judging, when that is better left to God. 

Because we do not live up to God's perfect ideal for us, does NOT MEAN we will not receive eternal life.  It also does not mean that God's perfect will - His perfect law, is not important. 

   

 

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8thdaypriest
18 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I agree.  It was one of the 10 (the moral law). If there are 2 things God punished Israel for, it was worshipping idols (breaking Commandments 1 and 2) and breaking the Sabbath.

BUT - I have a hard time justifying that the Sabbath is binding on all - particularly Gentiles.  I know many people who I consider to be better Christians than I am who worship on Sunday.

Another thing I wonder about is just how "binding" are the 10? I read the parable of the woman caught in adultery; and how no one was qualified to throw the first stone but Jesus.  Did He who wrote the Law that said "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and that adulterers should be stoned to death break His own law by giving her a pass?  Or was it an act of mercy; and an example of the grace to be given to those who believe and repent?

God - because He IS God - the Creator, has the absolute right to appoint a day.  He set aside the 7th Day.  He "blessed" THAT day, for Himself.  "Holy" means "belonging to the LORD". 

He didn't need a reason. 

We act sometimes like little kids asking over and over, "Why?  Why?  Why?"  Finally the parent says, "Because I said so!  That's why!" 

To rest on the 7th Day, is to acknowledge the Creator - the One who rested on that first 7th Day, to acknowledge His right of dominion over us.  To refuse the Sabbath, is to deny His right of dominion.  

The Sabbath really is a big deal.  It's right up there with the worship of "other gods" (giving honor to "other gods", which one should give to the Creator alone). 

Cases of ignorance, God will judge fairly and justly.   That doesn't change the importance of the Sabbath.

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8thdaypriest
10 hours ago, Gustave said:

The Moral Law of God IS INSTINCTIVE. That's why it's called the Moral Law.

An Individual who has received ZERO education in the Christian Faith knows it's wrong to steal, murder, disrespect their parents, sleep with someone else's wife or husband, etc. That same individual who has received ZERO religious instruction pertaining to Judaism would not instinctively know to avoid eating shrimp or lobsters because THAT type of thing is our of the ceremonial law, which REQUIRES being informed of the various prohibitions. This would include the specific day one would set aside to rest. 

It's rather quite simple.

For violent pagan head-hunting natives in the jungles, "might makes right".  "Right" is what he can do without too serious pay-back.  They do steal (even wives and other tribes children).  They do lie and murder.   So no - they do not "do the things of the law" instinctively.

Maybe they avoid eating brightly colored frogs, rather than shrimp or pork.  They have made the connection from those poisonous creatures, because it happens fast.  They have not yet made the connection from illness to shrimp or pork because it can happen more slowly. 

The dietary laws the LORD commanded for Israel, were for their HEALTH. 

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8thdaypriest
10 hours ago, Gustave said:

You're suggesting that in the new heaven and new earth the saved will exit the new Jerusalem and look at all the dead bodies? Expand on that if you would.

I believe the final Battle of Gog/Magog will take place during the 8th millennium, after Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once again. 

In the Ezekiel's account of that battle, there will be a cleanup that takes 7 months.  (Ezekiel 39:11-16)  It is during that time period that the saints/saved will go forth from Jerusalem, and look upon the bodies and bones of the dead from that battle. 

Isaiah 66:24  “‘And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.’”

    Jesus quoted from this passage.  See Mark 9:44, 46 & 48.

    Ezekiel 39:8-10  “‘Yes, this is coming, and it will be done,’ says Adonai ELOHIM; ‘this is the day about which I have spoken.  Those living in Isra'el's cities will go out and set fire to the weapons, to use as fuel-the shields, breastplates, bows, arrows, clubs and spears;  they will use them for fire seven years;  so that they will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut down any from the forests; because they will use the weapons for fire. Thus they will plunder those who plundered them and rob those who robbed them,’ says Adonai ELOHIM.”

I also believe there will take place (before Christ's return) a terrible battle in the Middle East that many will call Gog/Magog.  That battle will be Satan's effort to deceive the nations into believing that His appearance (soon after that battle) is Christ returned.  

Here's a link to my study on the topic:

https://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/26-Gog and Magog.htm

No - the destruction of Gog/Magog is not the same as the final "Lake of Fire" "second death".  That comes later.

You didn't think I would be without an answer - did you?

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8thdaypriest
10 hours ago, Gustave said:

The Moral Law of God IS INSTINCTIVE. That's why it's called the Moral Law.

An Individual who has received ZERO education in the Christian Faith knows it's wrong to steal, murder, disrespect their parents, sleep with someone else's wife or husband, etc. That same individual who has received ZERO religious instruction pertaining to Judaism would not instinctively know to avoid eating shrimp or lobsters because THAT type of thing is our of the ceremonial law, which REQUIRES being informed of the various prohibitions. This would include the specific day one would set aside to rest. 

It's rather quite simple.

Any person raised in Western culture (which was spread to almost every corner of the globe) has learned Judeo-Christian values, because Western culture was based upon Judeo-Christian beliefs for a very long time. 

ZERO education in the Christian Faith of today, does not mean ZERO education in Judeo-Christian values.

Only peoples in isolate pockets (like jungles) and peoples living before the spread of Judeo-Christian culture, would be "ignorant" of those values.  Islam was based partially in those values.  Islam does honor Moses, and some (not all) of the Law of Moses.

But I don't believe doing "the things of the law" is INSTINCTIVE.  It's not something programmed into our behavior, like birds building nests.  If it was, we would not struggle with sin - as we do. 

Paul even said, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."   (Rom 7:23 KJV)  Now THAT law does seem to be instinctive.  Like the instinctive reaction, see a pretty woman - think sex. 

I'm just wondering if those Gentiles, who did the things of the law, were believing Gentiles (who were filled with the spirit of Christ).  They lived the law better than the Jews, and thus put the Jews to shame.  They didn't have the "schoolmaster" law, as the Jews did, but they had the Holy Spirit, writing the law in their hearts. 

Could the context in the passage support that possibility?  Is this what Paul was saying?  I'm just asking.   

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JoeMo
5 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Sins committed because of willful ignorance, are counted.  "Because you say 'we see', your sin remains."

Here's a scenario:

Someone goes to a series of meetings at an SDA Church and is presented with the Sabbath in all it's glory and detail; and shown that Sunday is not deemed as a day of worship anywhere in scripture, and they reject it.  Is that willful ignorance or rebellion?  If so, are they condemned?

I have sometimes been tempted not to study subjects to deeply, because I believe that what I learn I will be held responsible for.  Being a curious Christian for over 40 years, I have learned some things that have proven to be a challenge in applying to my daily life. I sometimes wonder if learning more makes more things "sin" for me.

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JoeMo
5 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The Sabbath really is a big deal. ... Cases of ignorance, God will judge fairly and justly.   That doesn't change the importance of the Sabbath.

I agree. My observance of Sabbath is totally wound up with my relationship with Jesus.  For me, to forget the Sabbath would practically mean forgetting Jesus.

We all probably know former SDA's who have left the church and joined Sunday congregations.  The excuse is usually something like "The 4th commandment means to pick one day a week as a day of rest.  the Sabbath can be any day one chooses.  We should worship God 7 days a week".  I have kids we raised as strict SDA's not one of them keeps the 7th-day Sabbath.  Doing so is being a "legalist" I'm told.  My response usually goes something like "So is keeping the other 9 commandments legalism?" It usually doesn't go well; so my new response is the same one I use here - "I don't believe like you believe".

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JoeMo
7 hours ago, Gustave said:

the first lie one tells in a series of lies is always the smallest. Over time one becomes deadened or accustomed to sin.

And when that first lie (or the first 100 lies) were told generations ago, children grow up with the "moral law" that is ingrained in their culture.  In some cultures, that "moral law" is horrible.  Take Sharia, for instance.

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JoeMo
4 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

But I don't believe doing "the things of the law" is INSTINCTIVE.  It's not something programmed into our behavior, like birds building nests.

So true!  If it were programmed into us, we wouldn't need the law.  We were given the Law so we would know what sin is.

" I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (Rom. 7:7)

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8thdaypriest
21 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Here's a scenario:

Someone goes to a series of meetings at an SDA Church and is presented with the Sabbath in all it's glory and detail; and shown that Sunday is not deemed as a day of worship anywhere in scripture, and they reject it.  Is that willful ignorance or rebellion?  If so, are they condemned?

I have sometimes been tempted not to study subjects to deeply, because I believe that what I learn I will be held responsible for.  Being a curious Christian for over 40 years, I have learned some things that have proven to be a challenge in applying to my daily life. I sometimes wonder if learning more makes more things "sin" for me.

A friend once told me that it took 7 years for her to embrace the Sabbath.  She was Church of Christ.  Because someone does not immediately change their thinking or behavior, does not mean they never will.  Most humans have to struggle with things for awhile.

Learning more does not make more things "sin".  It just makes the learner accountable for those sins.

As we draw nearer to Christ, we see more of our own filthiness.  It does make us pray more earnestly, for His promised cleansing.  And that's good.  It does make us sympathize with the monumental work that Christ has to accomplish - curing billions of sin/selfishness. 

When we refuse to "look in the mirror", we are hindering the work of Christ - to present His Father's law, lived out in human lives.  If we don't "see" our sin, we won't ask for forgiveness and healing.  And if we don't ask, we won't receive. 

 

 

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8thdaypriest

After reading Romans Chapter 2 again, I am convinced Paul was speaking of believing/converted Gentiles.  Those would be the ones "who show the work of the law written in their hearts".  That is after all, the New Covenant promise.  "I will write my law on their hearts" (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10).  Paul is contrasting the believing Gentiles, who keep the moral law and are circumcised in heart, with the Jews who don't - who are hypocrites, claiming they teach everyone else, while they themselves violate the law and the spirit of the law. 

The law these believing Gentiles "have not" is the schoolmaster Torah, with all it's symbolism - pointing to Christ.  I see lots of believing Gentiles today, who believe in Jesus as the Son of God who died for us, who love their fellow man - while they do not understand the symbolism of the Feasts, or the symbolism of the Aaronic priesthood or the change of the priesthood.  There are dozens of Messianic prophecies they cannot appreciate, but they still love Jesus and have His Spirit in their hearts.   

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8thdaypriest
On 8/21/2019 at 1:56 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I am now seeing clearly that Paul used the term "the law" when writing about at least four distinct kinds/types of law.

1. the moral law of God (which is also "the law of Christ")

2.  the schoolmaster law - also called the prophetic law, or the ceremonial law, which was to culminate in Christ, to lead us to Christ         Jesus was "born under" this law.

3.  the law of sin and death - "sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" - "The wages of sin is death."
This is the dominion of sin over the carnal/fleshly nature, which ends in death. 

4.  the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ

Addressing each law separately:

1.  We will be judged by Christ, based upon our works, with "the law of God" as the measuring standard.  By that standard, every human being is guilty of sin - except Jesus Christ.

2.  Persons of faith - "are no longer under" this law (Gal 3:25).  Paul regarded the Jews of his day as "under" this law. 

3.  Believers are set free from this law - by Christ.  Our sins will not cause our eternal death.  Even if we die, we will be "set free" from death - by Christ.  

4.  We are set free by this law - IF we are "in Jesus Christ"

To continue with this topic:

We "are no longer under a schoolmaster" (tutor) Galatians 3:25. 

And we have been set free from "the law of sin and death".  This was the other law, that Paul saw in his flesh, the one that warred against the law of his mind (that loved God's law). That other law will not control us or have dominion over us if we are "in Christ" and have His Spirit within us.  "Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world." 

Where to put the 10 Commandments?  

Is the command to rest on the 7th Day part of the "schoolmaster" or part of the moral law of God - or both? 

Really - are not all these laws (#1-#4) - God's laws?  He is the One who said, "in the day you eat of it, you will surely die".  There's your "law of sin and death". 

And all the law is summed up in "love the LORD your God" and "love your neighbor as yourself".  Only one in need of a "schoolmaster" would need it spelled out as it is in the Big 10.  In the Kingdom someday, there will be no Ark of the Covenant with tables of stone (Jeremiah 3:16).  Why?  'Cause no one will need it explained to him in such detail.  Doesn't mean we will break those commandments.  Just means we don't need it spelled out for us.  It will be written on our hearts. 

When one graduates from school, one does not immediately discard what he has learned.  Hopefully he has internalized it. 

Is there a part we can discard?  I don't think so.   

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