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Kingdom of Adventistan

3ABN Round 2


Gregory Matthews
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NOTE:  This forum has taken the position that discussion  of the issues with Linda should end.  Do not think that we can again discuss those past issues with Linda.

See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/3abn-brenda-walsh-split-rocks-adventist-network

and

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/danny-shelton-steps-down-3abn-president

 

 

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On 9/30/2019 at 7:09 PM, phkrause said:

Personally I didn't like how it went down with Linda and definitely didn't like how its gone down with Brenda!!

I think Im glad that I have no idea what you are talking about.

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sometimes I think the Adventist church couldn't survive without some sort of drama going on...  

We could have some sort of reality TV show, on the same level as "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" or "Dancing with the Stars."   We could name it, "Rubbernecking with the Remnant" .....

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On 11/16/2019 at 8:46 AM, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

sometimes I think the Adventist church couldn't survive without some sort of drama going on...  

We could have some sort of reality TV show, on the same level as "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" or "Dancing with the Stars."   We could name it, "Rubbernecking with the Remnant" .....

I wonder how many years in "recovery" (during the millennium) it will take before we all stop the "drama" - a great deal of which is seen on this forum sometimes.   In this world, "drama" usually goes with being human. 

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1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I wonder how many years in "recovery" (during the millennium) it will take before we all stop the "drama"

If we don't learn it here as part of the sanctification process will will probably have to learn it during the millennium (along with learning a host of other things).

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On 11/15/2019 at 7:01 PM, BlessedMan said:

I think Im glad that I have no idea what you are talking about.

I read the article and still don't know what's going on.  I guess that's cuz I never watch 3ABN and have no idea who these folks are. It seems like political and financial drama going on in high places of the denomination while ignoring any spiritual ramifications.  That's one reason why I'm not real high on denominations (no specific denomination implied).

Just give me Jesus.

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1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I read the article and still don't know what's going on.  I guess that's cuz I never watch 3ABN and have no idea who these folks are. It seems like political and financial drama going on in high places of the denomination while ignoring any spiritual ramifications.  That's one reason why I'm not real high on denominations (no specific denomination implied).

Just give me Jesus.

lol, well you knew Id bite on this comment didnt you? :)  Maybe sometime Ill post my article called "Jesus Was A Protestant."  Could actually be a good discussion. I love denominations! I have gotten around to almost everyone there is; except Mormons.

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Me too; including Mormons. In my experience, there are sincere and obedient believers (even though they don't have the same "doctrines" as me) in all of them.  There are also nominal or "fair weather" believers in all of them. I'm no judge.  I don't think God is looking to disqualify any of them because of ignorance or misinterpretation of certain scriptures. I choose Adventism because its doctrines come closer to what I believe than any other denomination; and I am more in my element around Adventists (and hippies) than any other denomination.  If I were disfellowshipped, I would still consider myself an Adventist.

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sincerity and obedience usually get more people into trouble than anything IMO. God doesnt want to know what you know (cause He already does anyway) in scripture; He is mostly interested in what we do with what we know - and what is the purpose we want to know...making doctrine non-optional. Many people, in all churches prove to the world that they can barely handle even one doctrine; so thats all they need. But if we go around sporting 12 or whatever number one wishes there, (maybe 28), we have that much more "light" to live up to. But no matter what we know, its what we do with it that counts. If we do nothing with all our "knowing" God seems to condemn that in stronger terms than anything else. One story that comes to mind is the woman with a small serving of flour, and how the prophet furnished the oil she needed to make something out of it. It doesnt matter how little we bring to the table; just what we do with it - and holding back on any of it seems to be the worst...think Anannias and his lying to The Holy Spirit. That dude and his wife didnt have 28 fundies but he was a "sincere" tither, his downfall was just holding back. He was "sincere" in thinking he could do that.

Thats why the Sabbath will be at the forefront of prophecy in the near future...what we do with it now counts, more than most of us know

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19 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

That dude and his wife didnt have 28 fundies but he was a "sincere" tither, his downfall was just holding back.

His downfall was that he lied; not that he held back.  I imagine his gift would have been graciously accepted if he promised to turn over - say - half of the proceeds from his land sale.

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12 hours ago, JoeMo said:

... there are sincere and obedient believers (even though they don't have the same "doctrines" as me) in all of them ...

This has been my observation as well - sincere believers who studiously search the scriptures while praying for illumination from the Holy Spirit, and yet coming to irreconcilable differing conclusions.

I can only surmise that either (a) the Holy Spirit isn't really leading; or (b) the Holy Spirit doesn't really care about the fine points of doctrine.

After all, God sees the end from the beginning. If diet really was to be a major theological issue, why did He give Peter the vision ordering him to eat "unclean" foods? and why did He let Paul write 1 Tim 4:3-5 without making it clear that the OT dietary laws trumped what Paul wrote? If the Sabbath really were to be a final "end-times" test, why did He let Paul write Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16 without inspiring Paul to add a footnote about the weekly Sabbath?

Or at the very least then, why doesn't the Holy Spirit lead all sincere followers into a similar understanding of these texts?

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53 minutes ago, pierrepaul said:

Or at the very least then, why doesn't the Holy Spirit lead all sincere followers into a similar understanding of these texts?

Just my opinion, but I believe God puts relationship above doctrine.  The main doctrines of scripture in my opinion are:

1. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"; and

2. "Love the Lord Thy God with your whole heart, and love Thy neighbor as thyself."

If we firmly hold on to these doctrines out of faith in and love for our Creator, I believe that Jesus will clear up any incorrect doctrines we have; and we will be happy to accept them.  Example - When Jesus explains the Sabbath to the Sunday keepers that are in the Kingdom, those Sunday keepers will gladly become Sabbath Keepers.

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On September 30, 2019 at 9:09 PM, phkrause said:

Personally I didn't like how it went down with Linda and definitely didn't like how its gone down with Brenda!!

I went thru a number of Adventist forums reading up on the Shelton affair (no, no, the whole mess!). It was a good example why you stay out of other peoples business and don't try to sort out their sins. You can listen to one side and then the other and you will see completely different stories. Talk shows such as Dr Laura who take calls from upset spouses and give out advice are not doing a responsible action as they never heard from the other side. (Dr Laura does seem to pick out the ones who are lying well.) But unless you are a trained counselor and have both parties in front of you, best stay out of it. This even includes politicians on the national stage. You cannot know the whole story.

If you cannot know the whole story and pass on incomplete information you have, you seriously are guilty of a falsehood for passing along an incomplete truth.  

I can even tell you of a couple who went to an Adventist preacher for marital counseling, the couple divorced, and the wife married the pastor! Not touching that one either!  Moral of the story is, for the majority of the church, it is little different from the world. People are largely SINO (SDAs In Name Only).

The tongue gets very bad reviews in the scripture. It is even called "loshan hara" (bad tongue). 

https://torah.org/learning/halashon-review1/

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22 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Example - When Jesus explains the Sabbath to the Sunday keepers that are in the Kingdom, those Sunday keepers will gladly become Sabbath Keepers.

Yes - and presumably if on the other hand, we are the ones who have been wrong all along about the Sabbath, the Mark of the Beast, the Investigative Judgement, the scapegoat, the sanctuary, and "unclean" foods, we'll gladly accept His teaching.

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2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

You can listen to one side and then the other and you will see completely different stories.

In one of the lecture halls at my law school was inscribed the Latin maxim "Audi alteram partem", meaning "listen to the other side". It's the basis of our legal system, but might not be as fun as jumping to conclusions based on unsubstantiated rumours.

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On 11/18/2019 at 2:40 PM, JoeMo said:

If we don't learn it here as part of the sanctification process will will probably have to learn it during the millennium (along with learning a host of other things).

MOST people who "do it right" have no idea what "sanctification" is, or should be.

There is ONE text which could solve it all, in just a few seconds

Quote

Instead of being motivated by selfish ambition or vanity, each of you should, in humility, be moved to treat one another as more important than yourself.  (Phil 2:3, NET)

Nothing wrong with a little "proof-texting..."

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On 11/19/2019 at 9:14 AM, pierrepaul said:

This has been my observation as well - sincere believers who studiously search the scriptures while praying for illumination from the Holy Spirit, and yet coming to irreconcilable differing conclusions.

I can only surmise that either (a) the Holy Spirit isn't really leading; or (b) the Holy Spirit doesn't really care about the fine points of doctrine.

After all, God sees the end from the beginning. If diet really was to be a major theological issue, why did He give Peter the vision ordering him to eat "unclean" foods?

Good questions - for sure, but in MHO, it essentially has nothing to do with what one believes, its always going to be about WHAT we do with what we believe. This is exactly WHY "sunday-keepers..." (at least some of them) will make it to heaven. There is NO Holy Spirit involved, no matter how sincere both sides may be, when a person uses what they do have in wrong ways, that they know are wrong...

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On 9/30/2019 at 6:51 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

NOTE:  This forum has taken the position that discussion  of the issues with Linda should end.  Do not think that we can again discuss those past issues with Linda.

See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/3abn-brenda-walsh-split-rocks-adventist-network

and

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/danny-shelton-steps-down-3abn-president

 

well, I did force myself to read both articles...the whole thing is so convoluted that no one can really know the true story now. All I see are two "christians" basically having a public spat about money that is ruining, or has ruined any semblance of Christ-likeness ; and I would definitely take issue with the first article's statement that 3ABN is a "Cornerstone Adventist Ministry."

Its time for some major "Adventist" House Cleaning here.  Shut them down and get something in place that will actually make a difference for the world.

dish.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, phkrause said:

B/W, even though I didn't like the way things went down at 3ABN, it still seems to me that God is with them, because they are still going strong! At least outwardly??

That is funny right there! But let's not give Donald Trump any credit because the country seems to be doing very well at the moment even though his sins are being cataloged religiously here!

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On 11/20/2019 at 5:36 PM, phkrause said:

B/W, even though I didn't like the way things went down at 3ABN, it still seems to me that God is with them, because they are still going strong! At least outwardly??

Well, just because they are still rolling doesnt mean its with Gods approval. There is that thing about "the wheat and the tares."  I refuse to watch any of their programming. I don't see a need there, at all.

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On November 20, 2019 at 9:42 PM, B/W Photodude said:

That is funny right there! But let's not give Donald Trump any credit because the country seems to be doing very well at the moment even though his sins are being cataloged religiously here!

I noticed a range of reactions to the above. What I was trying to say is that no matter the scandal around Shelton, we are willing to give 3ABN a pass because they are doing good. Amazing, sometimes how things in the church parallel the "real world." Things have not been so well in this country for a long time, inspite of all the Dems trying to take down Trump in a coup. If they would spend as much time on Dem sins as Trumps, things might be a lot better for the country, but no, let's hate on Trump. 

Another parallel exist in the "rage" emoted towards Ted Wilson in another remarkable similarity to Trump derangement syndrome.

All the scandal aside, I do give 3ABN a little credibility due to those who actually use the network. Doug Batchelor, I believe, sends his programming over their airwaves. I have met a number of people thru the mountains here who watch Doug Batchelor and like what he says. There have even been baptisms from people watching Doug Batchelor.

I can watch 3ABN over Dish, but usually don't. I would like to see Hope Channel on AppleTV, but they haven't developed the app yet.

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