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Gregory Matthews

Year/Day Principle

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JoeMo

I've been talking about this very issue for years here.  Glad someone with some"influence" agrees.

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TrevorL
On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:05 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

Greetings Greg,

I would be interested if the following statement from the article is a valid assessment of the 2300 evening / mornings:

"Armed with this “proof” from Daniel 9, historicists then retroactively apply the day-year conversion to the 2,300 evenings-mornings of Daniel 8. However, the word “day” does not even appear in Daniel 8:13–14, 26 but rather “evenings-mornings” and “the evenings and the mornings” (v. 26). This is not a mystery at all: it simply refers to the literal removal of the daily sacrifices (Heb. tamid) from the temple by the Greek “little horn” for a total of literal 2,300 evenings and mornings sacrifices = 1,150 literal days."

What I have always read from Daniel 8:14 is that it is saying 2300 evenings and 2300 mornings, hence 2300 days and not 1150 days. Contrary to the normal SDA view, I accept the period of 2300 years from BC 334-333 to AD 1967.

Kind regards Trevor

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Gregory Matthews

What you have stated is a common understanding of that Biblical passage by people who are not SDA.  I happen to prefer the common SDA understanding on that point.

However, I consider several of his comments to be worthy of consideration.  

 

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JoeMo

I am a fan of the 1,150 day interpretation, because it fits inside the 1,260 days.  I also do not believe that the day for a year" principle applies to all past and future eschatology - only to those "prophecies" (not prophecies, really; but judgements) which were explicitly identified for that application.  So I believe the 1,150 or 2,300, and 1,260 days are literal days.

That being said, I have come to the conclusion that most prophecy is not fully understood until it is fulfilled.  So who "knows"?

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stinsonmarri
On 10/22/2019 at 7:05 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Here we go with hermeneutical “rule," and  exegesis Greek thought accepted into modern Christian philosophy. That is why we are getting away from all our beliefs in truth and don't understand the ones that needed to be corrected. When we don't realize that Hellenization is what brought down IsraEL and lead to the false religion called Judaism. Today were are moving away from the pillars of faith to Greek thought because we choose to accept the same Protestant teaching and views of THEOLOGY and not YAHWEH!  I choose to accept the Hebrew understanding that YAHWEH gave and not human beings traditions and beliefs!

Blessings!

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stinsonmarri
On 10/23/2019 at 7:32 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings Greg,

I would be interested if the following statement from the article is a valid assessment of the 2300 evening / mornings:

"Armed with this “proof” from Daniel 9, historicists then retroactively apply the day-year conversion to the 2,300 evenings-mornings of Daniel 8. However, the word “day” does not even appear in Daniel 8:13–14, 26 but rather “evenings-mornings” and “the evenings and the mornings” (v. 26). This is not a mystery at all: it simply refers to the literal removal of the daily sacrifices (Heb. tamid) from the temple by the Greek “little horn” for a total of literal 2,300 evenings and mornings sacrifices = 1,150 literal days."

What I have always read from Daniel 8:14 is that it is saying 2300 evenings and 2300 mornings, hence 2300 days and not 1150 days. Contrary to the normal SDA view, I accept the period of 2300 years from BC 334-333 to AD 1967.

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor: The daily in the original writings but not sacrifice:

Tâmı̂yd: From an unused root meaning to stretch; properly continuance (as indefinite extension). Strong Dictionary 

There is only one thing that continue indefinitely and that is the Law of YAHWEH! We must remember that animal sacrifices only continued until YAHSHUA came and they could never take away sin. YAHSHUA came to die to fulfill the Law that none of it would be removed or changed. Dan 12:11 makes it clear that once YAHWEH'S Law is destroyed or taken away by the beast in Rev 11:7-14 here on earth it will not be destroyed. I urge you to read what takes place. Dan 11:31-34 exchanges the Covenant and the Daily which will allow the abomination! Take care!

Blessings!

 

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TrevorL

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I appreciate your comments and information. What I was asking Greg whether the language 2300 evenings and mornings could be understood as 1150 days, or should be read as 2300 days. If I said I was going away for 10 days and nights, I would be meaning 10 whole days, not 10 periods of 12 hours each, a total of 5 days and 5 nights. But each language has its own idiom, and a Lexicon may give examples that would support the other concept.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The daily in the original writings but not sacrifice:

Tâmı̂yd: From an unused root meaning to stretch; properly continuance (as indefinite extension). Strong Dictionary 

There is only one thing that continue indefinitely and that is the Law of YAHWEH! We must remember that animal sacrifices only continued until YAHSHUA came and they could never take away sin. YAHSHUA came to die to fulfill the Law that none of it would be removed or changed.

I would still suggest that because of context the “daily” refers here to the burnt offerings that were offered each day, in the evening and the morning. Yes I agree that the various sacrifices under the Law all pointed forward to Christ and his sacrifices and offerings.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Dan 12:11 makes it clear that once YAHWEH'S Law is destroyed or taken away by the beast in Rev 11:7-14 here on earth it will not be destroyed. I urge you to read what takes place. Dan 11:31-34 exchanges the Covenant and the Daily which will allow the abomination! Take care!

I find the rest of your comments difficult. I firmly believe in the 2300 as applicable to BC 334-333 to AD 1967, the start being the main activity, the slaying of the Ram by the Goat, with one decisive blow and then following up by other persistent actions. The reversal of this was the Six-Day War where Israel with one decisive blow on Egypt by the Air Force and then the Army dealt a severe blow, and then the Army was able to take Jerusalem and the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

You mention Daniel 12 and there are three time periods in this chapter, which I interpret as 1260, 1290 and 1335 years. Our speaker on the weekend suggests that these start at the beginning of when the Muslims set up the Dome of the Rock and terminate in 1948 the establishment of Israel as a State, 1978 the Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt and he anticipates 2023 as an important date, where something very significant will occur.

I also strongly believe that 1260 years is very important in regard to significant dates regarding the rise of the RCC and Papacy and 1260 later some aspects of the demise the RCC and the Papacy. All of these time periods are like milestones, anticipating the near return of our Lord Jesus Christ who will reign over Israel and the Nations for 1000 years upon the Throne of David as King / Priest Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 1:11, 3:19-21.

Kind regards Trevor

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stinsonmarri
1 hour ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I appreciate your comments and information. What I was asking Greg whether the language 2300 evenings and mornings could be understood as 1150 days, or should be read as 2300 days. If I said I was going away for 10 days and nights, I would be meaning 10 whole days, not 10 periods of 12 hours each, a total of 5 days and 5 nights. But each language has its own idiom, and a Lexicon may give examples that would support the other concept.

I would still suggest that because of context the “daily” refers here to the burnt offerings that were offered each day, in the evening and the morning. Yes I agree that the various sacrifices under the Law all pointed forward to Christ and his sacrifices and offerings.

I find the rest of your comments difficult. I firmly believe in the 2300 as applicable to BC 334-333 to AD 1967, the start being the main activity, the slaying of the Ram by the Goat, with one decisive blow and then following up by other persistent actions. The reversal of this was the Six-Day War where Israel with one decisive blow on Egypt by the Air Force and then the Army dealt a severe blow, and then the Army was able to take Jerusalem and the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

You mention Daniel 12 and there are three time periods in this chapter, which I interpret as 1260, 1290 and 1335 years. Our speaker on the weekend suggests that these start at the beginning of when the Muslims set up the Dome of the Rock and terminate in 1948 the establishment of Israel as a State, 1978 the Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt and he anticipates 2023 as an important date, where something very significant will occur.

I also strongly believe that 1260 years is very important in regard to significant dates regarding the rise of the RCC and Papacy and 1260 later some aspects of the demise the RCC and the Papacy. All of these time periods are like milestones, anticipating the near return of our Lord Jesus Christ who will reign over Israel and the Nations for 1000 years upon the Throne of David as King / Priest Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 1:11, 3:19-21.

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor: Even EGW and the pioneer stated it wasn't. Burnt offering are not today Dan 12 prove that, MICHAEL stands up it is the Time of Trouble. Yes, there was a lamb that burned continually all night and another all day on the altar. However, if you will study the Torah you find the word continual burnt offering and not daily that is found only in Daniel. Yes the word is the same but the meaning is not sacrifice that is not written in Daniel. This continual meant something more that no burnt offering could do. They were symbolic and could never take away sin.

THE TRUE LAMB came and died because the Daily or Continual Covenant was fulfilled and YAHWEH WORD is EVERLASTING and will not come back to HIM VOID. You cannot enter the Gate of the New City unless you observed the Commandments which will always be continual! The 23 hundred days was a part of the continual time that pointed to the Judgment. Again about obeying YAHWEH'S Commandments!

Blessings!

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Kevin H

I have to admit I liked this article better than I thought I would. However there are a three points that were missed and need to be considered I will make a posting here of all three to make it easier to discuss and read:

First: the phrase in Daniel 8:14 evenings-morning in trying to make it the two sacrifices of the day require (as the author or Daniel was accused of in a few liberal commentaries I read) the author of Daniel to be dyslexic. In the Bible consistently (unless the author of Daniel was dyslexic) is "morning and evening" and the evening-morning cycle is the daily cycle.

Second: Lets look at history. Back when these theories about what Daniel 8:14 means, people did not know about Belshazzar. Many believed that he was a fictional character made up by the author. And people who believed in a historical Belshazzar did not know his dates and did not know when his third year was. But in the 20th century he was discovered to be real and the dates of his reign. So let's simply add 1150 literal days and 2300 literal days to the third year of Belshazzar. Granted we don't know what day the vision came on but we can look at the events in the years we come to If we add 1150 days we are a little past the middle of his reign and we find business as usual. However if we add 2300 literal days, the events that year included Medio-Persia's seize on Babylon, Belshazzar's feast and the fall of Babylon and the early days of the Medio-Persia kingdom.

Deuteronomy saw two possible futures for the Hebrew, and pre-exile books added more details to these two plans. One was if they were faithful in the land they would be blessed, nations would come to find out why they were blessed, learn about their God and this would be how the gospel was spread.

If they were not faithful God would give them curses to encourage them to change. If nothing else worked they were to exile. In exile they were to tell their neighbors about their unfaithfulness and God's faithfulness and through this the gospel would have been spread and the exile end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah and lead to the setting up of his kingdom. Deuteronomy 4 actually calls the exile "The last days".

I call these land theology and exile theology. And may I recommend the article in the SDA Bible Commentary "The Role of Israel in Bible Prophecy" in the volume with the prophetic books like Isaiah and Jeremiah.

Daniel 1-7 can be understood to fit with this view of eschatology. Daniel 8 still sees it as possible, but that time was running out.

Daniel 9-12 gives a new plan where the Jews returned to the land but in a lackluster return, not the second great exodus lead by the messiah. And another 70 weeks of years of land theology. (Interesting, from David to the end of the exile was 70 weeks of years). And these chapters tell what need to be done upon the return and what could have happened had Jesus been accepted.

Now the dates in Daniel 12 are sanctuary dates They, as well as the time, times and dividing of times are literal days in the 70 weeks of years. When we try to make the day-year principle apply to them we are doubling up the day-year principle. . This will lead into the third point, but evening-morning is a cyclic term, the days in Daniel 12 are indeed days. There is a very important distinction. In Ezekiel 38 and 39, as we put the pieces together we end up with a 2310 day prophecy. Taking for the 10 days from the new year to Yom Kippur, we have another 2300 day prophecy. Ezekiel's application is what could have happened had Jesus been accepted. We can say an application to what could have been the last 2300 days of the 70 weeks of years.

The third issue is that the ancient world believed in cyclic thought. While for the above post I'd recommend "the Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" for this post I want to recommend "Before Philosophy" 1946 University of Chicago Press, by Henri Frankfort and others. This is a crucial book to understand the 2300 evenings-mornings, and that most of our discussion on the topic is so ignorant about this book. (For the life of me I do not understand why in the world our church does not get the rights to publish that book and re-print it) Reis actually touched upon it in his article, but passed off too soon and does not appear to see the importance of what he said.

A newer book (and by and Adventist) that does point out this information is "Hebrew for Theologians" by Jacques B. Doukhan.

While the 1290 days, and the days in Daniel 12 are literal days out of the already year-day'd 70 weeks, the phrase in Daniel 8:14 evenings-mornings are cyclic phrases and gives us more freedom in it's application.

As I mentioned above the exegesis of the text was the last 2300 days until the end of Babylon. And that Ezekiel gave a 2310 day prophecy that we can apply to what would have been the last 2310 days of the 70 weeks, or just after the 70 weeks.

In before Philosophy we learn that a day for an Egyptian was the cycle of the sun in the sky and the cycle of the Nile flooding. One happened every 24 hours and the other every year. Thus there was an year-day interchangeability. Egypt and others in the ancient middle east believed in year-day applications.

In Leviticus 23 and scattered in Deuteronomy we find the Hebrew cycles for a week. To a Hebrew a week was 6 days and the Sabbath. 6 months and either Passover or Yom Kippur, 6 years and the Sabbatical year and in Leviticus but not Deuteronomy, 6 Sabbatical years and the Jubilee.

Thus Daniel 8:14 would have been understood by Daniel and his audience as 2300 days, 2300 months, 2300 full years (Daniel was a Deuteronomist, otherwise we would also say 2300 sabbatical years).

So the 2300 years is ONE of the possible ways to apply the text. But it is NOT the ONLY way to apply the text. God was not twiddling his thumbs waiting for 1844.

Now we have two independent sources: the Samaritan and the Elephantine papyri both confirm that the decree of Ezra 7 was to start on Yom Kippur 538 BC. When William Miller lived people were lucky to get a Biblical event in the same century as they actually happened. So for Miller to get the right year is amazing.

In the book of John, John the Baptist says "Behold the lamb of God who scapegoats the sins of the world" which indicates that John saw Jesus starting his ministry on Yom Kippur at the fulfillment of time. John also has 7 signs that deal with 7 temple feasts. All of these have the elements (but not the same order) of Jesus saying (either publicly or in a discussion) something that actually deals with an aspect of the feast, a problem based on the aspect of the feast Jesus dealt with, an "I am" saying that deals with both the issues of the feast and the problem, and the sign (or miracle) that tie these all together. There are 3 on 3 different Passover years, three on the feast of tabernacles, pictured as the same year, but could have been over 2 or 3 years and telescoped together because they were all in Jerusalem. and one for Hanukkah (Interestingly it was the New Testament that made Hanukkah a Biblical feast. And the Hanukkah "I AM" is "I am the resurrection and the life" and the raising of Lazarus. an amazing Christmas sermon for those who have an empty spot in their hearts do to the loss of a loved one). But back to the topic. John has Jesus start his ministry on Yom Kipppur and about a 3 1/2 year ministry. (there is sitll some room for a year before and after but still the middle of the week.) But enough evidence for John to possibly agree with our interpretation.

Also. if we accept the high date of the exodus, Yom Kippur 1844 ended a sabbatical year and started a Jubilee and the Sabbatical years and Jubilees were the ending of one cycle and the start of new cycles. Ancient cycles also point out that events on heaven and earth reflect each other.

On earth the Rosetta stone had recently been translated opening the door to understanding ancient languages. And Edward Robinson had in the late 1830s done the very first serious study of Biblical Geography and his book had just been published in the early 1840s. This opened up the world to serious study in Biblical geography and opened the door to Biblical Archaeology. 1844 started a new cycle, the age of exegesis. A time where we could investigate the Bible as never before. Prior to this time people could read the words of the Bible but use their imagination and tradition to interpret what they mean. But the 1840s opened the door to have better understandings of what the words mean and how they are applied and the historical, geographic and cultural context.

And the reflection in Heaven, the angels and beings on the unfallen worlds can review the lives of those who claimed to have accepted God in their lives. This review points out whether the person actually did or not, and if so just what difference did God make in their life. This helps them understand better what God does with them and understand better their own salvation and that way they love God even better.

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TrevorL

Greetings again stinsonmarri and Greetings Kevin H,

6 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

This continual meant something more that no burnt offering could do. They were symbolic and could never take away sin.

I connect the evening and the morning reference to the burnt offerings offered up in the evening and morning. Yes, all the sacrifices were symbolic of what would be fulfilled in Christ. Please note the phrase “the evening and the morning” also occurs in the following:

Daniel 8:26 (KJV): And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Daniel 8 and 9 have many aspects related to the Temple and its worship and ultimately all of this was and will be fulfilled in Christ. Even the nations are depicted by a goat and a ram, sacrificial animals, different to the depiction in Daniel 7. The following tells us that the sacrifices would cease.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV): 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

5 hours ago, Kevin H said:

First: the phrase in Daniel 8:14 evenings-morning in trying to make it the two sacrifices of the day require (as the author or Daniel was accused of in a few liberal commentaries I read) the author of Daniel to be dyslexic. In the Bible consistently (unless the author of Daniel was dyslexic) is "morning and evening" and the evening-morning cycle is the daily cycle.

I find this comment obscure. Could you please elaborate? I assume you agree with the following:

Genesis 1:5 (KJV): And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Also I have difficulty understanding many of the other parts of your post, but I will defer this at the moment.

Kind regards Trevor

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stinsonmarri
8 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I connect the evening and the morning reference to the burnt offerings offered up in the evening and morning. Yes, all the sacrifices were symbolic of what would be fulfilled in Christ. Please note the phrase “the evening and the morning” also occurs in the following:

Daniel 8:26 (KJV): And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Daniel 8 and 9 have many aspects related to the Temple and its worship and ultimately all of this was and will be fulfilled in Christ. Even the nations are depicted by a goat and a ram, sacrificial animals, different to the depiction in Daniel 7. The following tells us that the sacrifices would cease.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV): 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is where the problem lies. Our pioneers thought that the evening and the morning was referring to the continual burnt offering. Even later EGW express she was not completely sure concerning the daily. Yes, Gabriel is talking about the Sanctuary but not the earthly one and that is the problem. The truth of the Heavenly Sanctuary service would be trample underfoot. Hebrews explains it very clearly that the services that point to YAHSHUA when HE return to do HIS PRIESTLY SERVICE in the Heavenly Sanctuary. The truth concerning that service would be trampled underfoot and the abomination to the desolate would eventually rise at the end of time. The actions taken place between the ram and politically the goat would eventually produce the little horn that would become exceeding great and waxed toward the south and the east including Jerusalem. Dan 8:9  

We all know this was Rome that started off in it pagan political formed. But it was Rome that changed the truth of the Sanctuary of Heaven! By that time Moses laws and the sacrificial services were no more. The Papacy power ever since changed the truth concerning the worship of THE MOST HIGH! We only like to deal with just the Sabbath, but this false power changed THE FATHER'S TRUE HOLY NAME,  calling THE HOLY SPIRIT a ghost, the papacy change the Holy days to feast days and even SDA celebrate her holidays which are all lies. YAHSHUA was not born on Christmas, rabbits do not have chicken eggs, Easter has nothing to do with the resurrection of YAHSHUA, this is a spring goddess and then we dress up in our Easter bonnet on the Sabbath. No one talks about the Gregorian calendar that the whole world accepts today. YAHSHUA is the one who said that evening and morning makes a day! We all have follow Catholicism so much that we do not utterly understand the implication of Daniel at all! YAHSHUA gave in the beginning a Lunar/Solar Calendar and not the sabbath moons lunar/solar false doctrine that is been taught today.

The morning and evening was not referring to the continual burnt offering. There are no burnt offerings in Heaven. Gabriel was confirming that the prophecy included an entire day! Which pointed to the Investigated Judgment. The desolation of the abomination would not take place until:

And from the time that the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:11 

Now, you will not get it because you do not understand that the beast was trained by the whore but left her. The beast and the 10 kings who will join with him; will have one hour, Babylon judgment and destruction will happen in one hour. Again, it is prophetic prophecy which made these days literal. Rev Chapter 11 and 17 if you read it tells about the beast.  He comes from the bottomless pit and he only has one hour. I make this simple the beast is not the papacy he will hate her along with the false prophet (USA 2 horned beast) and the 10 kings. That one hour will take place after the Time of Trouble because those 3 ½ years people will be sealed, the great multitude. Rev Chapter 7:9-17. Then the beast shows up no intercession during this one hour. The temple here on earth is built but the papacy will not sit in it the beast will, the man of sin that goes into perdition! The papacy whore and Jerusalem who have become symbolic of Babylon will be destroy in the battle of Armageddon. While this happen YAHSHUA is on the way that's why Daniel said Blessed to those who wait to 1, 335 days!

If you do not realize that the Sanctuary and the host of Heaven is what Gabriel was talking about and not this one on earth, you will be ready. You will not understand, and YAHWEH said MY people are lost due to the lack of knowledge! Hosea 4:6

Blessings!

 

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TrevorL

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

8 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

If you do not realize that the Sanctuary and the host of Heaven is what Gabriel was talking about and not this one on earth, you will be ready. You will not understand, and YAHWEH said MY people are lost due to the lack of knowledge! Hosea 4:6

I certainly cannot agree with or accept your perspective. From my understanding you have many different sequences and concepts. I believe that the 2300 evening / mornings represent the 2300 years from BC 334-333 to AD 1967. We have moved away from discussing the day for a year principle.

Kind regards Trevor

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stinsonmarri
On 11/4/2019 at 11:26 PM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

I certainly cannot agree with or accept your perspective. From my understanding you have many different sequences and concepts. I believe that the 2300 evening / mornings represent the 2300 years from BC 334-333 to AD 1967. We have moved away from discussing the day for a year principle.

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor: You know EGW said in TM p. 105, to do not be like the Pharisees or the papacy. She said things that once see to be perceived as truth are found to be in error by studying and verifying there validity. How by praying and turning no stone unturned. Most SDA do not truly understand the sacrificial system of the Levitical orders.They don't even know that more animals were sacrifice on the Sabbath and the Holy Convocations Days then during the regular week.  Now, you have turned away from the Investigated Judgment and that is very sad. This organization was founded on the 2300 hundred day prophecy that showed YAHSHUA going into THE MOST HOLY PLACE to mediator before HIS FATHER, THE JUDGE.  It saddens me to think that you can take the foundation away and make the claim you are part of the SDA church. On Oct 22, 1888 THE SAVIOR moved into THE MOST HOLY PLACE.  Leviticus never used the word daily only Daniel. You do not understand certain terms used for certain things and that's sad. However, I can only present and you have to take the time and see if these things are so!

Be at peace!

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TrevorL

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Now, you have turned away from the Investigated Judgment and that is very sad.

I appreciate your response. I find your comments interesting, but as I am not a SDA I am not sure whether what you say is standard SDA concepts, or your own variations. I recognise a few SDA items from my partial contact with the SDAs and their teaching. As far as this thread is concerned I have a different view to SDAs of the 2300 years as I have stated in previous posts. If you have a copy of the book “SDAs answer Questions on Doctrine”, page 478 mentions three premillennialist groups. Those that believed that the earth will be desolate for the 1000 years and SDAs followed this view, and others that believe that the earth will be populated during the 1000 years, and only some of these believed in the restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land and their conversion at the return of Jesus. I believe the same as this latter group.

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

This organization was founded on the 2300 hundred day prophecy that showed YAHSHUA going into THE MOST HOLY PLACE to mediator before HIS FATHER, THE JUDGE.  It saddens me to think that you can take the foundation away and make the claim you are part of the SDA church. On Oct 22, 1888 THE SAVIOR moved into THE MOST HOLY PLACE.

The Scriptures clearly teach that when Jesus ascended he sat down at the right hand of God in heaven. Thus Jesus was in the Most Holy when he ascended, not in AD 1843 or 1888. Another perspective is that Jesus is the embodiment of the Most Holy Place, and all the details of the Most Holy Place and Temple are fulfilled in Jesus.

Kind regards Trevor

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BlessedMan
On 11/3/2019 at 10:31 PM, Kevin H said:

And the reflection in Heaven, the angels and beings on the unfallen worlds can review the lives of those who claimed to have accepted God in their lives. This review points out whether the person actually did or not, and if so just what difference did God make in their life. This helps them understand better what God does with them and understand better their own salvation and that way they love God even better.

I agree. This is where it all leads! Great post!

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BlessedMan
On 10/22/2019 at 9:12 AM, JoeMo said:

I've been talking about this very issue for years here.  Glad someone with some"influence" agrees.

Yes you have! :)

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stinsonmarri
On 11/7/2019 at 12:24 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

I appreciate your response. I find your comments interesting, but as I am not a SDA I am not sure whether what you say is standard SDA concepts, or your own variations. I recognise a few SDA items from my partial contact with the SDAs and their teaching. As far as this thread is concerned I have a different view to SDAs of the 2300 years as I have stated in previous posts. If you have a copy of the book “SDAs answer Questions on Doctrine”, page 478 mentions three premillennialist groups. Those that believed that the earth will be desolate for the 1000 years and SDAs followed this view, and others that believe that the earth will be populated during the 1000 years, and only some of these believed in the restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land and their conversion at the return of Jesus. I believe the same as this latter group.

The Scriptures clearly teach that when Jesus ascended he sat down at the right hand of God in heaven. Thus Jesus was in the Most Holy when he ascended, not in AD 1843 or 1888. Another perspective is that Jesus is the embodiment of the Most Holy Place, and all the details of the Most Holy Place and Temple are fulfilled in Jesus.

Kind regards Trevor

My apologize; I thought that you were. I understand now!

Blessings!

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Ron Amnsn
On 10/22/2019 at 4:05 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Thanks for posting this link.  Serious students of the Bible should give it careful consideration and do more study of their own in this area.  Dr. Reis has correctly pointed out some of the errors involved with trying to derive a "year-day principle" from Numbers 14, Ezekiel 4, and Daniel 9.

Most applications of the "year-day principle" of prophetic interpretation involve enthusiastic speculation, rather than careful Bible study.  Sadly, most students of Bible prophecy continue to set aside the principles of interpretation that are actually taught within Scripture and insert in their place man-made assertions that contradict the word of God.

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