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Pope Francis 2020 plan is to rally Nations behind Climate change and Sunday law

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BlessedMan
53 minutes ago, Gustave said:

Man is evidently not commanded "by nature" to observe any feast on the Jewish Liturgical Calendar.

BUT...the seventh-day Sabbath is not one of those "feasts." Thats the first point. There are other points to be made here as well.

Rom 2:14 simply tells us that even when people don't have a Bible, they "by nature" still know whats right and whats wrong. As it also says:

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For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. Rom 12:3

Romans 2:14 is not a definition of "nature" it simply tells us that people are able to choose right or wrong because of that "measure of Faith,"  which is that "nature" by which we all know what God said.  And God did say "the seventh-day..." is THE Sabbath. (and not of Moses). It will always be "the Sabbath of The Lord thy God."

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Gustave
26 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

BUT...the seventh-day Sabbath is not one of those "feasts." Thats the first point. There are other points to be made here as well.

Rom 2:14 simply tells us that even when people don't have a Bible, they "by nature" still know whats right and whats wrong. As it also says:

Romans 2:14 is not a definition of "nature" it simply tells us that people are able to choose right or wrong because of that "measure of Faith,"  which is that "nature" by which we all know what God said.  And God did say "the seventh-day..." is THE Sabbath. (and not of Moses). It will always be "the Sabbath of The Lord thy God."

The 7th day Sabbath is the "First of Feasts" according to Judaism, which bases this understanding off of Leviticus 23. https://www.ou.org/holidays/shabbat/why_the_sabbath/

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

Romans 2 is telling us that there are two parts to the law, a moral part and a ceremonial or "ritual" part. The point being that Gentiles who did not have the Scriptures were obeying the law because it was written on their hearts. As Trent said, man was not commanded by nature to externally worship God on that day. Therefore, a Gentile who didn't  participate in ceremonial or ritual Sabbath observance was still said to do what the law required. 

God said it was to be unto them (the Israelite's) a holy day. Them is not everyone, it's specific, which is exactly what the Catechism of Trent says. 

Ezekiel 20, 10:  Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

 

 

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BlessedMan
14 hours ago, Gustave said:

Romans 2 is telling us that there are two parts to the law,

14 hours ago, Gustave said:

The 7th day Sabbath is the "First of Feasts" according to Judaism,

It may be "according to Judaism" but certainly not according to scripture. You appear to be citing "Jewish sources" rather than the stated scriptural context. It really doesnt matter what anyone wants to call it; it only matters what God wants to call it; and God does call it "the seventh-day Sabbath" as well as "the Sabbath of The Lord Thy God," [not of Moses]  and IF as you say God gave the Sabbath to "them" only, then we are dealing with at least two scriptural false hoods:

1)  all the other commandments "must" also be for "them"

2) the seventh-day Sabbath is not described as only for/of the Jews

The red-bolded "them" is taken out of Biblical context when we try to say "only for them."  Scripture also tells us that not all who are Israel, actually are, Israel.""  So in NT times your bolded "them" consisted not only of Jews but of all nations, which makes much more sense hermenutically:

Quote

"...it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel," (Rom 9:6).

Today, "them" means everyone who names the name of Christ.

Quote

God's word in the form of beautiful covenant promises came to Abraham. Covenant people, the true children of Abraham, are not just his biological descendants. They are all those who trust in God and in what Jesus Christ has done for them (see also Rom_2:29; Gal_3:7) [taken from Life Application Notes]

.Now, with this other thing you said:

14 hours ago, Gustave said:

Romans 2 is telling us that there are two parts to the law, a moral part and a ceremonial or "ritual" part.

Romans 2 is not a description of "the law," it is a detailed accounting of how we humans respond to the law; and how God has made provisions for all nations and peoples to understand and accept His law:

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Rom 2:17  Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
Rom 2:18  and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
Rom 2:19  and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,

"The law" as in God's law" is not racially prejudiced, and includes "every nation, tongue and people..."  Otherwise, it would not be God's law; it would be ours.

The whole climate change thing is being promoted by the Vatican as something we can change or do something about. This is in defiance of the Bible's accounting of how the "natural disasters" coming upon us are not caused by human hands.

In Dan 8:25, for example, we are told ""Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without human means.

So, Biblically speaking, "human hands cannot fix whats happening. Since you are quoting from The Council Of Trent; I am thinking I can quote from other, pertinent sources, as well:
 

Quote

 

 Before the Son of man appears in the clouds of heaven everything in nature will be convulsed. Lightning from heaven uniting with the fire in the earth will cause the mountains to burn like a furnace and pour out their floods of lava over villages and cities. Molten masses of rock thrown into the water by the upheaval of things hidden in the earth will cause the water to boil and send forth rocks and earth. There will be mighty earthquakes and great destruction of human life.--7BC 946 (1907).  {LDE 26.3}
 
Crime, Famines, Pestilence

Satan is working in the atmosphere; he is poisoning the atmosphere, and here we are dependent upon God for our lives--our present and eternal lives. And being in the position that we are, we need to be wide awake, wholly devoted, wholly converted, wholly consecrated to God. But we seem to sit as though we were paralyzed. God of heaven, wake us up!--2SM 52 (1890).  {LDE 26.4} 

 

I believe that The Pope's statements on climate change are in ignorance of real science, and that his real aim has never changed from that of past Popes, in finding ways to control the world by whatever forms of transnational government he can get. The current Pope states:

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171. The strategy of buying and selling “carbon credits” can lead to a new form of speculation which would not help reduce the emission of polluting gases worldwide. [Pope Francis. Encyclical on Climate Change and Inequality (p. 105). Melville House. Kindle Edition.]

which we can agree with to a degree, and then he finally gets around to what the OP of this topic is getting at:

Quote

173. Enforceable international agreements are urgently needed, since local authorities are not always capable of effective intervention. Relations between states must be respectful of each other’s sovereignty, but must also lay down mutually agreed means of averting regional disasters which would eventually affect everyone. Global regulatory norms are needed to impose obligations and prevent unacceptable actions, for example, when powerful companies or countries dump contaminated waste or offshore polluting industries in other countries. [Pope Francis. Encyclical on Climate Change and Inequality (pp. 106-107). Melville House. Kindle Edition]

God has not restrained the powers of darkness from carrying forward their deadly work of vitiating the air, one of the sources of life and nutrition, with a deadly miasma. Not only is vegetable life affected but man suffers from pestilence. . . . These things are the result of drops from the vials of God's wrath [GOD TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT WHICH HE ALLOWS OR DOES NOT PREVENT. SEE EXODUS 7:3; 8:32; 1 CHRONICLES 10:4, 13, 14.] being sprinkled on the earth, and are but faint representations of what will be in the near future.--3SM 391 (1891).  {LDE 27.1}

Notice that in the Pope's own encyclical, the purported solutions have nothing to do with the climate. Its about "imposing obligations" on anyone who does not go along, Its about world dominion. Whats to stop them from including "the Sunday obligation" once this thing develops more?

Edited by BlessedMan

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Gustave
5 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

It may be "according to Judaism" but certainly not according to scripture. You appear to be citing "Jewish sources" rather than the stated scriptural context. It really doesnt matter what anyone wants to call it; it only matters what God wants to call it; and God does call it "the seventh-day Sabbath" as well as "the Sabbath of The Lord Thy God," [not of Moses]  and IF as you say God gave the Sabbath to "them" only, then we are dealing with at least two scriptural false hoods:

1)  all the other commandments "must" also be for "them"

2) the seventh-day Sabbath is not described as only for/of the Jews

The red-bolded "them" is taken out of Biblical context when we try to say "only for them."  Scripture also tells us that not all who are Israel, actually are, Israel.""  So in NT times your bolded "them" consisted not only of Jews but of all nations, which makes much more sense hermenutically:

Today, "them" means everyone who names the name of Christ.

.Now, with this other thing you said:

Romans 2 is not a description of "the law," it is a detailed accounting of how we humans respond to the law; and how God has made provisions for all nations and peoples to understand and accept His law:

"The law" as in God's law" is not racially prejudiced, and includes "every nation, tongue and people..."  Otherwise, it would not be God's law; it would be ours.

The whole climate change thing is being promoted by the Vatican as something we can change or do something about. This is in defiance of the Bible's accounting of how the "natural disasters" coming upon us are not caused by human hands.

In Dan 8:25, for example, we are told ""Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without human means.

So, Biblically speaking, "human hands cannot fix whats happening. Since you are quoting from The Council Of Trent; I am thinking I can quote from other, pertinent sources, as well:
 

I believe that The Pope's statements on climate change are in ignorance of real science, and that his real aim has never changed from that of past Popes, in finding ways to control the world by whatever forms of transnational government he can get. The current Pope states:

which we can agree with to a degree, and then he finally gets around to what the OP of this topic is getting at:

God has not restrained the powers of darkness from carrying forward their deadly work of vitiating the air, one of the sources of life and nutrition, with a deadly miasma. Not only is vegetable life affected but man suffers from pestilence. . . . These things are the result of drops from the vials of God's wrath [GOD TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT WHICH HE ALLOWS OR DOES NOT PREVENT. SEE EXODUS 7:3; 8:32; 1 CHRONICLES 10:4, 13, 14.] being sprinkled on the earth, and are but faint representations of what will be in the near future.--3SM 391 (1891).  {LDE 27.1}

Notice that in the Pope's own encyclical, the purported solutions have nothing to do with the climate. Its about "imposing obligations" on anyone who does not go along, Its about world dominion. Whats to stop them from including "the Sunday obligation" once this thing develops more?

According to Scripture it is the first of all feasts;

"..Speak unto the Children of Israel, and say unto THEM, concerning the FEASTS of the Lord....even THESE are my feasts. Six days work shall be done but the seventh day is the sabbath....." Leviticus 23, 1-3

That's numerically #1 in the list given (in Scripture) and beyond that the Jewish Religious Authority (which was valid) up until the Resurrection of Christ had the authority to bind laws onto faithful Jews. This was in fact confirmed by Jesus Himself. 

 

God is absolutely moral therefore God's creation was absolutely moral (but with free will). Cain KNEW what he did to Able was wrong without the commandment 'thou shall not kill' being given to him. These types of Commandments are obligatory at all times. What Catholicism maintains is that the ritual or ceremonial aspects of the law were fulfilled by Christ and indeed have passed away and it is these ceremonial or ritual aspects of the law that are no longer binding on Christians. Cain was commanded by nature to not kill his brother but he went ahead and did it anyway - he knew what he did was wrong. A person who wasn't supernaturally instructed about the Sabbath would not be commanded by nature to render external worship to God on that over any other day and therein is the difference & proof the Catechism of Trent called this issue out rightly. 

Someone outside of Israel that happened to join Israel  became (at the point of their joining) part of Israel. 

Do I buy into the popular beliefs on man-made climate change? NO, I do not at all. 

Christians are not under the "THE LAW" as it was promulgated prior to the death and resurrection of Christ. 

Compare the two Scriptures below

Matthew 23, 1-4 Vs. Matthew 28, 18-20

The power the Scribes and Pharisees had was removed and transferred to the Church. It was the Church that since the Resurrection had the authority to teach what Christ had commanded. If you are willing to speak to actual Jews they will readily tell you that Paul's teaching was that the Sabbath had terminated as an obligatory observance for Christians. This is something that's well known. 

Again, I'm not saying that Christians are not under the moral law - far from it. I'm saying that Christians are not under the ceremonial or ritual laws the Israelites were under. The Sabbath was the only Commandment of the ten that had a ritual or ceremonial aspect to it that required supernatural communication so people could even be aware of it. 

Every Culture throughout history has dedicated or set aside some time for the worship of it's god's - the fact this can be observed proves that indeed there is a natural law within man that something is greater than himself and that people should show external worship to what they understand is God. Granted that there is only one God and the Jews were worshipping that real God however this isn't the point for our discussion.

The point is that a Pagan, who had zero knowledge of the ritual or ceremonial aspects of Jewish law, could still,  "do by nature the things contained in the law" and were approved in God's sight. This should be all anyone needs to see to know that the ceremonial aspects of the law were NOT what God wrote on the heart and in fact were / are worthless for Salvation. 

The Catholic Church simply won't persecute people who like to worship on Saturday. You would have to count the Ethiopian Orthodox, a 50 million member Church as a fellow victim because they "observe the 7th day Sabbath" & won't eat shrimp, pork or anything classified as unclean by the Torah. I have never heard anything from that group whereas they think the Catholic Church will persecute them for their Sabbath views. Have you? 

There is one such Church down the street from where I live, I've got to know one of these guys that worked at a gas station I stopped at all the time. They are VERY devout about the Sabbath (on Saturday) and would never eat no kosher foods. I have never once heard them make the claims about the Sabbath being the reason for being attacked or singled out. 

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BlessedMan
2 hours ago, Gustave said:

There is one such Church down the street from where I live, I've got to know one of these guys that worked at a gas station I stopped at all the time. They are VERY devout about the Sabbath (on Saturday) and would never eat no kosher foods. I have never once heard them make the claims about the Sabbath being the reason for being attacked or singled out. 

Thanks Gustave, I appreciate the spirit of your reply. I would just say for now, I dont have any huge questions to you or about you personally, in any ways. I do have questions about where RCC leadership is headed, and what some of their objectives might be. But it will be 2 or 3 days before I can get back to post sensibly without rushing, so patience will be our virtue here. :)

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Gregory Matthews

Gustave said in the quote below:

As I assume that Gustave knows, SDA teaching agrees with what I have quoted below.  There is much that was given to the Jews that pointed forward to the coming of the Christ and indeed was done away with in the life and ministry of Christ with his death on the cross and  his resurrection on that Sunday morning. 

Where we disagree relates to the Sabbath being considered a part of that ceremonial law.   We do not consider it to be ceremonial any more than we consider the commandment not to murder to be ceremonial, or the commandment not to worship idols to be ceremonial.

Rather, in relating the Sabbath to the Genesis story, we consider it to be a forever time, established by God,  as in Eden, when God meets with humanity for spiritual reflection and growth.  This special time was not limited to the time when humanity lived in Eden.  Rather it was established for the entire time of human existence.  Keeping the Sabbath does not save us.  But it is a special time established by God.

As best understood, by SDAs, this teaching has not been a negative  polemic against worshiping God on what we call Sunday.  Although some SDAs present it that way.  In doing so, they show that they do not really understand SDA teaching.   I have spent 38 years as a U.S. Army Chaplain and as a VA Chaplain.   As such, I was endorsed by the SDA denomination, which means that the SDA denomination had the authority to remove me from those positions if I did not reflect SDA belief.  During those 38 years, I regularly conducted worship services on Sundays.  The General Conference that endorsed me knew that I was doing so.  My doing so was not considered to  violate SDA teaching.

However, on Saturdays, I was worshiping in a SDA congregation, to include times when I was stationed in another country.  In the history of early Christianity, in some places, Christians held their worship services on What we would call Saturdays, and on Easter Sunday.  With the passage of time  that transitioned into both Saturday and Sunday worship. With the passage of more time this transitioned into  sole Sunday service.  As you can imagine, many people would prefer one day a week as opposed to having two days in a week to worship.  

So, this is why SDA teach Sabbath keeping and also agree with what Gustave said below and I have bolded.  

What Catholicism maintains is that the ritual or ceremonial aspects of the law were fulfilled by Christ and indeed have passed away and it is these ceremonial or ritual aspects of the law that are no longer binding on Christians.

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Gustave
3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Gustave said in the quote below:

As I assume that Gustave knows, SDA teaching agrees with what I have quoted below.  There is much that was given to the Jews that pointed forward to the coming of the Christ and indeed was done away with in the life and ministry of Christ with his death on the cross and  his resurrection on that Sunday morning. 

Where we disagree relates to the Sabbath being considered a part of that ceremonial law.   We do not consider it to be ceremonial any more than we consider the commandment not to murder to be ceremonial, or the commandment not to worship idols to be ceremonial.

Rather, in relating the Sabbath to the Genesis story, we consider it to be a forever time, established by God,  as in Eden, when God meets with humanity for spiritual reflection and growth.  This special time was not limited to the time when humanity lived in Eden.  Rather it was established for the entire time of human existence.  Keeping the Sabbath does not save us.  But it is a special time established by God.

As best understood, by SDAs, this teaching has not been a negative  polemic against worshiping God on what we call Sunday.  Although some SDAs present it that way.  In doing so, they show that they do not really understand SDA teaching.   I have spent 38 years as a U.S. Army Chaplain and as a VA Chaplain.   As such, I was endorsed by the SDA denomination, which means that the SDA denomination had the authority to remove me from those positions if I did not reflect SDA belief.  During those 38 years, I regularly conducted worship services on Sundays.  The General Conference that endorsed me knew that I was doing so.  My doing so was not considered to  violate SDA teaching.

However, on Saturdays, I was worshiping in a SDA congregation, to include times when I was stationed in another country.  In the history of early Christianity, in some places, Christians held their worship services on What we would call Saturdays, and on Easter Sunday.  With the passage of time  that transitioned into both Saturday and Sunday worship. With the passage of more time this transitioned into  sole Sunday service.  As you can imagine, many people would prefer one day a week as opposed to having two days in a week to worship.  

So, this is why SDA teach Sabbath keeping and also agree with what Gustave said below and I have bolded.  

 

 

That was well said Gregory. The way I've understood it is that a moral or natural commandment such as not to murder, steal or sleep with another mans wife are known without supernatural means. Ceremonial or ritualistic laws required supernatural communication of those things otherwise they couldn't be known. Example that comes to mind would be  Exodus 16, 4-5.

Had God not informed Moses, both Moses and the Israelite's would have been just as ignorant of the Sabbath and Day of Atonement as Abraham and Enoch was of them. 

 

 

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Gregory Matthews

Gustave:  I would say that our modern society demonstrates that several, if not all, of the so-called 10-commandments are not naturally known to be true, and are best known within a super-natural revelation aspect.

Example:  Adultery.  Not known by society today, and probably not known in early times.

 

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Gregory Matthews

Gustave said in the quote below:

I can agree with that quote.  As to the reason:  Israel had just come out of generations (Scholars differ on the exact time.) of service as slaves in Egypt.  As such Israel's knowledge of God was largely gone and probably replaced with much of the Egyptian religious system.  God had to start over with teaching basic truth, and by using symbols that they had some knowledge of.   If you look at the plagues of Egypt, all had a relationship to the Egyptian religious system. 

So, yes, as part of that God had to bring the Sabbath back to their attention.

 

Quote

Had God not informed Moses, both Moses and the Israelite's would have been just as ignorant of the Sabbath and Day of Atonement as Abraham and Enoch was of them.

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Gustave

Do SDA's believe that at some point long prior to the Exodus that certain individuals had knowledge of the Day of Atonement or any other specific special time other than the seventh day Sabbath? 

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stinsonmarri
On 1/17/2020 at 9:15 AM, pierrepaul said:

It's this sort of nonsense that really irks me. I don't know why headline writers of certain alleged Christian publications have this uncontrollable insatiable need to lie.

Well it appears the fight is on once again about Sunday versus the Sabbath and being  a SDA believer base strictly on the Bible; Pierrepaul it is not in the Bible! You may be shocked but the others know I have been saying this for a very long time. Now, let's make it very clear, the word Jew comes from the Middle Ages. Matter of fact, the letter J was created during that time. The Hebrews were not Jews and even in Jewish Almanac p. 83  it states very clearly they are not the ancient Hebrews and they are correct. The Jews are Ashkenazi's who are German's that came from Japheth. They adopted the Rabbinic Judaism:

Rabbinic Judaism, the normative form of Judaism that developed after the fall of the Temple of Jerusalem (AD 70). Originating in the work of the Pharisaic rabbis, it was based on the legal and commentative literature in the Talmud, and it set up a mode of worship and a life discipline that were to be practiced by Jews worldwide down to modern timesEncyclopædia Britannica

Historically, after the fall of Jerusalem by the Babylonians many of the Hebrews did not return to Jerusalem and then  from Persia, Greek and Rome, they spread among the many nations and countries of the world. Those who did return were from all of the twelve tribes. This history is founded in 2 Chronicles 30:1; Hezekiah sent the letter to all Israel including the Kingdom of Israel; to come and keep and eat the passover supper. They did and many of the people from the 10 tribes return and lived in Jerusalem and those who return home their idols were destroyed. The people again would come to the Temple of YAHWEH with gladness and delight. 2 Chronicles 31 So this notion of the lost tribes is a myth! Moving on during the time of YAHSHUA, the people were all call Israel and not Jews!

The Sabbath have been raked over and misunderstood. The Hebrew verb shabat does not mean to rest, it means to stop, desist and to celebrate! The Europeans scribes threw the rest word in there! Lev 23:1 does say that it is YAHWEH'S Holy Convocation days. The word feast comes from the Roman's and was never used, the Hebrew words "moed, moadim," are correct and is found in Gen 1:14 and not season. It means Holy Appointed Time, not feast. The Holy days only had one supper, the passover. The earth did not have different seasons until after the flood. Gen 8:22 The first time the word Sabbath was mention in Exodus Chapter 16 and it is located in the Commandments. Also, YAHWEH, YAHSHUA never used the word ten with the Commandments. Is ten in the Bible yes, and it means to the 10th power! The word ten is only mention three times in the entire Bible Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4. The Bible never ever said that the Pope would force people to worship on Sunday and it is not a mark of the beast. A mark means exactly what it says a mark! How can a day be a mark! It can be a sign but not a a mark! The Bible said the remnant of YAHWEH will keep the Commandments and the Testimony of YAHSHUA! The Commandments are HIS Law, Judgments and Statutes; all should read Ps the entire Chapter of 119.

Did Frances talk about Sunday, he did but he center his main focus concerning Sunday was the Eucharist! Go back all of you and read the entire topic and it was about the Sacrament of the Eucharist! Matter of fact, he implemented a twisted concept that he called the Jewish Sabbath, was for rest and relaxation which the Bible does not indicate at all. The Sabbath belongs to YAHWEH it is HIS Holy day and it was made Holy from the beginning! Yet, with all of that the Sabbath alone was not the concern of YAHWEH; it was all of HIS Commands period.

Where do the papacy fit into all of this? It was the Catholic Church through the pope that would THINK to change TIMES and LAWS the Bible clearly says. This church has and feels that the pope is above the Bible. They too have this myth to believe that the pope is both YAHSHUA and HIS FATHER! To think that any man would equate to THE FATHER and THE SON is totally ridiculous and unfounded. That is why I cannot fathom SDA who believe in the trinity that was founded by the Catholic Church! THEY ARE NOT persons in a god head! That word is not correct! It is not the Greek word which means divinity or divine! You can argue all you want show the Greek meaning of the word! THE SON is THE WORD and also ONE of THE ELOHYIM said John who became flesh! That tells me there are THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS who moved separately but work together as ONE like an husband and wife does! I know this is not going to make the Catholic folks on the forum happy but the Bible call the papacy the whore and describe the church to a tee! Yes, Catholicy is around the world but the people are drained and poor but the church is rich. Do Catholic people care about the poor? Yes, and many of them are sincere spiritual minded people. It is the system that is corrupt. 

Now, SDA don't listen either and that is sad. EGW in Testimony to the Minister p 12 state clear we will have less to say about the papacy and we do. Her head was wounded unto death; this head die spiritually. But SDA want to claim that the papacy is the beast and she is not! There will be a problem between her and prodigy child she reared, the beast! The identification of the beast is not known, but the mystery of both him and the papacy has been revealed in Revelation Chapter 17. The Catholic Church owns Israel and if you think I am lying go there on Easter and Christmas and you will know it to be true. Israel makes her money off of Christians who flock there now. Remember they were hated a few decades back! There are so many different Protestants in Jerusalem and it is all controlled by the Catholic Church who owns the property!!! The Bible calls Jerusalem Babylon and all the churches uncaged birds. Rev Chapter 18 The beast will defeat the papacy because only one can be in controlled of those who turned their back on truth and YAHWEH! That will be the battle of Armageddon and the Bible tells you who wins!

Finally, just set back and see what Francis will say and then see if he make a rule about a Sunday law! The mass population of wicked people does not want to keep any laws which includes a Sunday law! Even our Constitutions has been brought down to her needs! Who would ever thought a TV celebrate would do it! Only YAHWEH'S Laws will NOT be defeated and that will bring YAHSHUA back to prove it!

Blessings, Happy Sabbath!

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stinsonmarri
46 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Also, YAHWEH, YAHSHUA never used the word ten with the Commandments.

Let me make this sentence more clear; THEY never SPOKE the word ten with the word Commandments at all. The Bible shows that THEY would say the Commandments or MY Law. Moses wrote the word ten but not in the 10 digits of the unit of ten ones! When ever YAHWEH SPOKE it became a Command or a Law even the Sacrificial laws. However, HE made it clear how long these laws would last, until THE TRUE LAMB would come and take away the sins of the world! Everything SPOKEN by THE ALMIGHTY ONES is steadfast! YAHWEH does alter or change what comes from HIS LIPS! Psa 89:34; Heb 13:20 No man, woman or pope can change YAHWEH'S Holy Commandments! The sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west that is  a law! The month only have 29-30 days not 31 and we are off time. Today, the majority of the world keep an alter calendar known as the Gregorian Calendar and not YAHWEH'S Calendar even the Rabbinic Jew's set their false feast days by the Catholic. YAHWEH'S true Set Appointed Time begins between the last of March and April when the wax new moon appears. It also goes along with the ripening of the barley crops and that month is the first month of YAHWEH'S true years HE gave to HIS Created Beings! HE also named it Abib! Ex 12:2; 13:4

So, my point is that no one who does not obey all of HIS Commandments or have the Testimony of YAHSHUA WILL NOT BE SAVED. That is what the Bible says and that is the truth!

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

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BlessedMan
On 1/12/2020 at 10:03 PM, B/W Photodude said:

Pope Francis 2020 plan is to rally Nations behind Climate change and Sunday law

Laudato Si’, is the Pope’s encyclical on climate change, there he offers some suggestions on how to combat climate change, including reducing carbon emissions, carpooling, planting trees and recycling.

“These are not bad suggestions, but in the encyclical, Pope Francis also suggests Sundays with keeping a better environment. 

The implication here is that we need to have a law mandating rest on Sunday, so it appears that his agenda on climate change includes giving Sunday rest and worship mandated by law to improve the environment.

Very true

On 1/18/2020 at 6:21 PM, B/W Photodude said:

Oh, there are more than one difference between Catholics and SDAs regarding the 10 commandments.

You seem comfortable with people changing things as noted in your previous post.

Catholics did eliminate the 2nd commandment which allows you to keep all your statutes and and other images of saints which get prayed to and from which miracles seem to occur.

The fourth commandment was gutted and moved to the third spot in the order. Gone is the reference to the specific day of rest and the authority by which God claims His right to be worshipped on the day of His designation. You only have a general reference for keeping "a" sabbath day.

Several thousand years ago, the king of Babylon decreed that his subjects must worship only in the way he saw fit.

Three Jewish men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, chose to follow their consciences, standing up against the king and his edict. Thus began a standoff that remains famous even to this day (see Daniel 3).

Unfortunately, we are seeing the same situation repeating itself today.

The Pope is calling for the world to acknowledge and honor Sunday as a day of rest. Legislation that will force the world to worship and rest on Sunday would be the ideal solution. There are many voices clamoring to fulfill exactly such a goal, using the economy, the environment, and even the family as reasons to legislate Sunday rest.

Another standoff is obviously on the horizon. Those who refuse to give up the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath will face trials as tough as the furnace faced by Shadrach and his companions. However, we can hold fast hope, knowing that the God who spared the Israelite men from the fiery furnace is coming again soon.  

Transnational Politics have become mostly a secular enterprise, for now; but without throwing away its historical religious heritage. It would be pretty tough for the RCC to deny their role and goals within the realms of transnational legislation. Will "Sunday" be involved? If we look at the past history; it is easy to dig up reliable documentation which reflects past headlines of RCC efforts at instigating Sunday Laws, of various kinds. IMO the past few Popes have clearly been making efforts at instilling more of the transnational relationships and political influences since around WW1 and onwards.

The RCCs rise and spread of the needed pattern of international political development, has for the last number of years, been gradually recognized by the academic community, and by statesmen from around the world. The Holy See has projected one of the mainstream practices  of political communication theory. The Vatican (Roman) Holy See, using the influence of the Catholic Church in the world, according to "the Lateran Treaty" (Lateran Treaty) has always been trying to construct a practical political entity not subject to territorial restrictions. This national model poses a challenge to those who would object to the religious influence in international politics. After Second Vatican Council, the Holy See actively integrated into the international community, with the actual behavior required to reshape the religious identity of all transnational political actors. In order to win the recognition of the international community, to expand the spread of historic RCC religious identity, "ecological conversion" is being urged upon all.

On June 18, 2015, Pope Francis issued his encyclical on climate change. The Pope recommends Sunday-keeping as part of a global solution to heal our planet. Here's part of the Pope's message:

Quote

"Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which HEALS OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH GOD, WITH OURSELVES, WITH OTHERS AND WITH THE WORLD. Sunday is the day of the Resurrection, the “first day” of the new creation, whose first fruits are the Lord’s risen humanity, the pledge of the final transfiguration of all created reality. It also proclaims “man’s eternal rest in God”. In this way, Christian spirituality incorporates the value of relaxation and festivity."

The Pope mentioned Sunday Rest in the New Encyclical, under section VI "SACRAMENTAL SIGNS AND THE CELEBRATION OF REST."

"237. On Sunday, our participation in the Eucharist has special importance. Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which heals our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others and with the world. Sunday is the day of the Resurrection, the “first day” of the new creation, whose first fruits are the Lord’s risen humanity, the pledge of the final transfiguration of all created reality. It also proclaims “man’s eternal rest in God”.[168] In this way, Christian spirituality incorporates the value of relaxation and festivity. We tend to demean contemplative rest as something unproductive and unnecessary, but this is to do away with the very thing which is most important about work: its meaning. We are called to include in our work a dimension of receptivity and gratuity, which is quite different from mere inactivity. Rather, it is another way of working, which forms part of our very essence. It protects human action from becoming empty activism; it also prevents that unfettered greed and sense of isolation which make us seek personal gain to the detriment of all else. The law of weekly rest forbade work on the seventh day, “so that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your maidservant, and the stranger, may be refreshed” (Ex 23:12). Rest opens our eyes to the larger picture and gives us renewed sensitivity to the rights of others. And so the day of rest, centred on the Eucharist, sheds it light on the whole week, and motivates us to greater concern for nature and the poor."
(Encyclical letter laudato si’ of the Holy Father Francis On Care For Our Common Home)

 On October 2, 2019 the United States government and the Vatican held a high level symposium on the need of promoting religious freedom. The event was called “Pathways to Achieving Human Dignity: Partnering with Faith-Based Organizations.”  They discussed the importance of the US and Vatican to partner together with faith-based organizations to advance religious liberty, combat human trafficking, climate change and providing humanitarian aid. US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Vatican Secretary for Relations with States Archbishop Paul Gallagher led out in this event designed to build a society which could truly be “tolerant” and “inclusive.” What is troubling aboout this whole thing is the obvious push to the opposite of not being "tolerant or inclusive" by these two great world powers banding together to promote ‘Laudato Si’ and to attempt to get all the churches involved.  The Pope’s encyclical ‘Laudato Si’ has a very clear mandate for "Sunday rest," or "Sunday Obligation."  I am not sure how anyone can miss that. Last year, The National Catholic Register had this to say about civil enforcement of Sundays in Poland:

Quote

Features |  Apr. 2, 2018
Taking Sunday Seriously — Poland Leads the Way
The European nation’s new law sharply restricting Sunday shopping provides an opportunity to take a closer look at American habits.
Nicholas Wolfram Smith

Sunday has just become a little less busy in Poland, thanks to a new law banning most commercial shopping that took effect in March.

And Poland’s move, which bucks the prevailing trend in secularized countries toward an ever-more commercialized Sunday, could provide a constructive example for the United States, where the network of state “blue laws” that once restricted Sunday business activities has been substantially reduced.

The Polish government enacted a new law that bans most businesses from being open more than two Sundays a month in 2018. By 2020, retailers will only be able to open on seven Sundays a year. The law, initially proposed by the Solidarity labor union in 2016, was endorsed by both the ruling Law and Justice Party and the nation’s Catholic bishops.

Some exceptions remain: Gas stations, cafes and pharmacies, among others, will be unaffected by the law. Small family businesses can remain open, as well, on the condition that only the owners work on Sundays.

Polish President Andrzej Duda praised the law for helping workers to spend time with their families on Sundays and anticipated it would help strengthen Polish society.  SOURCE

 The Catholic Church is quite clear, at its highest levels that they have exercised the "authority" to "change" the seventh-day Sabbath; even calling it "the third commandment" just for added confusion:

Quote

" PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER ONE
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 3
THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.90

    The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.91

* I. THE SABBATH DAY

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

II. THE LORD'S DAY

    This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

    We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

    Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people. SOURCE

Instead of side-tracking the issue to gibbering about does the Bible "really" mean what it says about "the seventh-day" it would be well to simply go straight to the sources, as I have done to see what the clear intentions are. The OP is quite correct in what it says about the 2020 plan to rally nations behind climate change and sunday laws.

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B/W Photodude

Pope Francis Continues to Press His Sunday Climate Encyclical upon World Leaders

Pope Francis is fulfilling his pledge to get the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:12, 13) to endorse his ‘Laudato Si’ climate change encyclical. He gives copies of this document to the different high-level leaders who visit him in Rome with the hope that they will take action and implement his policies in their respective countries.

http://adventmessenger.org/pope-francis-continues-to-press-his-sunday-climate-encyclical-upon-world-leaders/

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B/W Photodude
On 1/17/2020 at 10:14 PM, BlessedMan said:

I find it hard to go for internet stuff that wants to pick on Greta like this. She certainly is not the problem, and finding little scraps of "hyppocrisy" in her really gives the whole thing a totally unfair view.

Greta apparently doesn't like to be questioned about her views in the public arena. This sounds "snowflakey" to me!

https://trendings.net/as-criticism-mounts-greta-thunberg-threatens-to-leave-facebook-unless-her-critics-are-silenced/a3d1v7b

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B/W Photodude
On 1/19/2020 at 5:45 AM, phkrause said:

And so have the righties!!!! Both sides are wrong period!!!!

For example ...

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BlessedMan
10 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Greta apparently doesn't like to be questioned about her views in the public arena. This sounds "snowflakey" to me!

https://trendings.net/as-criticism-mounts-greta-thunberg-threatens-to-leave-facebook-unless-her-critics-are-silenced/a3d1v7b

from what I have been seeing; its NOT Greta posting most of the time anyways. It still doesnt make sense to me to pick on her. (not saying you are at all).

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JoeMo

From the article:

"“And he [USA] exerciseth all the power of the first beast [Rome] before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast [Rome], whose deadly wound was healed.” Revelation 13:12."

Inserting the parentheticals [USA] and [Rome] into this scriptural verse IMHO is twisting scripture.  We are admonished not to add or subtract from scripture.  It could be argued that the USA is never mentioned at all in scripture. 

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BlessedMan
2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

From the article:

"“And he [USA] exerciseth all the power of the first beast [Rome] before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast [Rome], whose deadly wound was healed.” Revelation 13:12."

Inserting the parentheticals [USA] and [Rome] into this scriptural verse IMHO is twisting scripture.  We are admonished not to add or subtract from scripture.  It could be argued that the USA is never mentioned at all in scripture. 

Sometimes that would be a good point. Not saying one way or the other how I see it, but in this case, theiir use of bracketed emphasis was not passed off as "scripture"  nor was there any attempt to make out like they were trying to "add" to said scripture. I think many people in writing about all manner of topics use the bracketed emphasis with good reasons.

Your point re "adding or subtracting" from scripture is always a good point. I just don't see that being done in this case.

Edited by BlessedMan

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B/W Photodude
5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"“And he [USA] exerciseth all the power of the first beast [Rome] before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast [Rome], whose deadly wound was healed.” Revelation 13:12."

Inserting the parentheticals [USA] and [Rome] into this scriptural verse IMHO is twisting scripture.  We are admonished not to add or subtract from scripture.  It could be argued that the USA is never mentioned at all in scripture. 

It isn't twisting Scripture. Parentheticals are understood to not be part of the original text, but an attempt at explanation of the text. So, these examples are inserting the SDA beliefs and/or interpretations which have been a part of the knowledge base of the church for 150 years approx. 

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B/W Photodude
6 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

from what I have been seeing; its NOT Greta posting most of the time anyways. It still doesnt make sense to me to pick on her. (not saying you are at all).

I do tend to think if you are going to get out on the world stage, then be ready for the opposing opinions. It is time for her to get her big girl pants on. Whining and demanding censorship regarding posts she doesn't like doesn't help her. This has been an issue before when women get out on the public stage, it is suggested you are not allowed to oppose them because that is oppressive behavior. Sorry, but if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

I have noted before that part of her message is probably written by others and may be an effort to avoid criticism of the topic. Like you are beating up on a little girl or something. I do think she is being used, but then, she doesn't really need to go along with it.

Unfortunately, online discussion tends to be a bit more brutal than face to face discussion. I have had "lefty" friends who thought the sun rose and fell on their Democrat candidate of choice. We could argue, but we were also friends. If our discussions were in black and white here, you would think we were the worst enemies! Words are a small fraction of communication content, and unfortunately, online only has that small part. No non-verbal communication becomes part of the exchange.

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BlessedMan
23 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

be ready for the opposing opinions

 

24 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

if you can't take the heat

 

24 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

online discussion tends to be a bit more brutal than face to face discussion.

One of the biggest reasons I have said anything re not "picking" on Greta, is actually because of her age. It would bother me if I knew something I said about her personally had a really bad effect on her. I really seriously question the adults in her life who are doing this to her. They should go to jail. Thats child abuse of the worst kind "for a good cause."

My other concern is that some of what she is talking about are NOT discussion, they are death threats, and worse. Yes, for teenagers, there are things worse than death threats, but I don't want to post any links regarding what Im talking about, not fit for human consumption.

I can agree that the idea of censorship is wrong. But a line should be drawn when it comes to death threats and other, extremely abusive ideas being hurled at her. I would rather question the ones putting her up to it, especially her parents and the dude from XR who helped launch Greta Inc

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stinsonmarri
7 hours ago, JoeMo said:

From the article:

"“And he [USA] exerciseth all the power of the first beast [Rome] before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast [Rome], whose deadly wound was healed.” Revelation 13:12."

Inserting the parentheticals [USA] and [Rome] into this scriptural verse IMHO is twisting scripture.  We are admonished not to add or subtract from scripture.  It could be argued that the USA is never mentioned at all in scripture. 

Joe, you put in the word Rome because the Bible does not say that. The Bible says that the fourth beast in Daniel 7th was different from the other three. If it was just Rome it would be the same like the other three one empire. Have you notice the description of the beast? All should look at what Daniel saw? 

Finally, if Daniel and John are the same book then the beast in both books are the same. Please explain how they are not? The problem we hold on to things that were taught but not necessarily what the Bible says! Please don't accuse me, prove all things from the Bible and do not add or subtract; read it as it is!

Blessings!

 

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B/W Photodude

People have been predicting imminent end of life on earth due to environmental issues for decades! I expect they may be doing it for decades more!

GT.jpg

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BlessedMan
38 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

People have been predicting imminent end of life on earth due to environmental issues for decades! I expect they may be doing it for decades more!

Whats really crazy about this, is that for many years Christians have been the brunt of all kinds of disparagements criticism and worse for "end of the world emergency" types of prophecy, but now we have scientists, doing the same thing, and having palm leaves thrown at their feet as they barge into the next town or city to see how many jobs they can take away from the people "for the environment" and everyone is just cheering them on. There is a Pope behind every climate change movement, and that is next to impossible to miss. He is all over the world with that "message."

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