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Gregory Matthews

Terrible Publicity for SDA Church

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Gregory Matthews

June 25, 2020

Gentlepeople:

Recently a newspaper in Tennessee published a full-page, hate-filled, advertisement against Islam that was associated with the SDA denomination and Ellen White.

NOTE:  I am getting private e-mails from non-SDAs asking me about this.

The following URLs will take you to both an official and a non-official SDA statement on this issue.

For more information please read:

 

https://www.nadadventist.org/news/adventist-church-north-america-issues-response-fringe-group-newspaper-ad-mentioning-church

 

https://atoday.org/nad-tweets-response-to-pippenger-ad/

 

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2020/fringe-groups-full-page-ad-tennessean-sparks-outcry

 

Gregory Matthews

 

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B/W Photodude
7 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I had a few questions reading thru these links like ... Why Nashville!

However, some comments on the atoday link were concerning:

..., this is by no means the first time that Seventh-day Adventists have singled out other religious groups hurtfully. Ellen White accused the Roman Catholics and the Pope, using words like “antichrist,” “the beast,” and “the whore of Babylon,” and charged the Roman Catholic Church with being in alliance with Spiritualism in preparing to persecute Sabbath-keepers. These are still Adventist beliefs, regularly taught to new believers in evangelistic meetings and Bible studies, and spread through mass mailings of Ellen White’s The Great Controversy.

It seems that many progressive adventists are bending over backwards to prove that the prophecies of Revelation have nothing to do with the Roman church. While I do not believe that there is an actual Jesuit infiltration into the church as some like to claim, but the teachings of the Roman church are making their way into the church by some very influential Adventists and these materials are even being read in the NAD meetings. I am speaking directly regarding contemplative prayer and spiritual formation. 

So, this article on atoday could have left off the attack on Ellen White for giving the messages she was instructed to give to the church. Unfortunately, while Pippenger was disfellowshipped for his teachings, many others in the church should be disfellowshipped. However, Jesus said let the tares grow with the wheat until the harvest. Many of these people will remove themselves.

 

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BlessedMan

I am not very familiar with US newspapers and sources. Anyone know of a link to the original article of concern? And to this group's web site?

My preliminary comment would be that this is what I have been trying to point out in several topics here.

1) Some forum members have beefed up arguments re "Islam & prophecy." THIS is where that all leads.

2) In the topic Adventist Beastwatch, and another one, similar, I asked the question in various ways: "Do we want The Beast as the prominent part of our message, or Jesus?" Clearly, some people are making that choice.

3) in a topic here called "Your Donkey," there are questions being asked about whether or not the Adventist Church Leaders have already had the church taken away from them; and out of their hands completely. AND given to others who will preach the truth about "the everlasting gospel."

NOTE: There is no such thing about Satan and/or "The Beast" being the main part of the message. At least not in Scripture.

4) This, in the OP is exactly what happens when people don't stand up and assert the Bible admonition to scripture first, and all other sources AFTER.

5) "The Message" does NOT belong to Adventists alone, nor is it just for Adventists, nor do we get to decide which parts are "true" or not. If things were even half of what they should be, there would be no time to talk about "antichrist" or "the beast" because testimonies for Jesus would be so prominent in our message.

6) There is nothing wrong with stating the facts regarding the role of The Vatican in the affairs of nations or in Bible prophecy. But there, again, is that corpulent disgust of preaching on the power of "The Beast" or of "anti-Christ." And barely a word about Jesus; and His power to become the sons and daughters of God.

7) The NAD is very sadly in error if they think they can fix this with the right kind of TWEET.

 

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BlessedMan

It is time to understand the book of Daniel. What its really talking about and setting forth as the PRIORITY!

Mat 21:43  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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B/W Photodude
46 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

I am not very familiar with US newspapers and sources. Anyone know of a link to the original article of concern? And to this group's web site?

The original was an advertisement bought and paid for. Likely would have been removed by now. You would need to find a paper copy or someone's uploaded image of the article.

The newspapers response was news and here is that story (Seems heads are rolling!)

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/06/22/tennessean-fires-manager-donates-funds-plans-training-after-anti-muslim-ad-runs/3234806001/:

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BlessedMan
3 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

The original was an advertisement bought and paid for. Likely would have been removed by now. You would need to find a paper copy or someone's uploaded image of the article.

The newspapers response was news and here is that story (Seems heads are rolling!)

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/06/22/tennessean-fires-manager-donates-funds-plans-training-after-anti-muslim-ad-runs/3234806001/:

Thank you One of the things I noticed in that article is that "the church" meaning, I presume, the NAD, called this ad "hurtful."  Why on earth dont they call it what it is? Trying to smooth it over with platitudes and tweets won't cut it this time. I know someone who loves the codswallop being dished out by that fringe group. They call it "truth" "special message" "end time message" "message only for Adventists," "present truth," etc. They are ridiculous, and sickening. Reminds me of these two stupid birds fighting over a french fry in the parking lot! Except that by not calling it what it is, people are being harmed and/or threatened.

ww.jpg

I dont mind calling out the Vatican for the massive harm they are also doing to the world; because THAT can be well-demonstrated by their own literature and history; but this BeastWatch gumbo has got to go. One quick observation from scripture will demonstrate the point I am trying to make:

Quote

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (1 John 2:18)

If the Bible says there are MANY Antichrists, how then can anyone say that it is only the RCC? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

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B/W Photodude
8 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

Thank you One of the things I noticed in that article is that "the church" meaning, I presume, the NAD, called this ad "hurtful."  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cbYaJIRjMk

I must have blown by that word hurtful! But yeah, it is a spineless word to deal with and injury done to someone else. Part of the problem these days is that no one wants to "hurt" anyone else (unless you are rich, white, & male, often). Whatever happened to "hard edged truths" and straight talk? Or calling sin by it's real name? And people wonder why men no longer want to go to church anymore.

helper.jpg

8 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

If the Bible says there are MANY Antichrists, how then can anyone say that it is only the RCC? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Actually, I see the "antichrist" issue as the "antichrist" and the "Antichrist". Everyone who sits in judgement of anyone else down to those who just criticize fellow worshippers have the spirit of antichrist. However, Antichrist is reserved for that final deception on the world of Satan impersonation the return of Jesus. So, changing times and laws, standing in for Jesus in the confessional, and a number of other Roman practices qualify as antichrist.

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BlessedMan
19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Actually, I see the "antichrist" issue as the "antichrist" and the "Antichrist".

I have heard this idea before. I struggle to find anything in scripture that would support this idea. I would be interested to hear more.

19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Everyone who sits in judgement of anyone else down to those who just criticize fellow worshippers have the spirit of antichrist.

Im not so sure this idea is totally supported by scripture. While we are admonished to not sit in judgment of others, we are equally admonished to "judge righteous judgment." (see John 7:24)

Quote

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

However, Antichrist is reserved for that final deception on the world of Satan impersonation the return of Jesus.

Does the Bible describe "anti-christ" with a capitol A like this? The apostle mentions "many anti-christs," and I don't know where one would find in the Bible any text to support this idea. Of course, the idea of a final deception is the subject in almost every book of the Bible, in one way or another. But I am pretty sure that the plural form of antichrist is without capitol letters.

1 John 2:18, for example uses both the singular and plural tense or context, and no capitalized first letter is in either word. Besides, the punctuation in most Bible may or may not be "inspired?"

Quote

1Jn_2:18 (Dan_12:13; Rev_14:6-12). Meaning of Antichrist to Be Understood.--Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word, who fail to see the meaning of antichrist, will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist. There is no time now for us to assimilate with the world. Daniel is standing in his lot and in his place. The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which every one should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves.  {7BC 949.6}

 

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JoeMo

Reminds me of the hateful rhetoric that SDA's used to (and to some extent, still do) generate hatred and prejudice against The RCC and the Papacy.

OTOH, I do believe that fundamentalist Islam (not mainstream Muslims) is as much of a threat to religious liberty and nationalism  (vs. globalism) as the RCC has ever been.  It doesn't have to be stated in such hateful terms, though.

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B/W Photodude
On 6/27/2020 at 3:26 AM, BlessedMan said:

I have heard this idea before. I struggle to find anything in scripture that would support this idea. I would be interested to hear more.

Fortunately, I said "as I see it," becaue I can not really give a reference for "a" & "A". However, it is clearly presented to us that Satan will attempt an impersonation of Jesus in the very endtimes. This will be a very overpowering deception (if possible, even the very elect). This is why I see this as the "A" antichrist. Satan has been trying to take the place of Jesus since well before event he creation of this world.

You may not think you will fall down and worship Satan at the impersonation, but more than one man of God has been picked up off the ground when they fell down worshipping an angel and they were admonished that they were not to be worshipped. Daniel and John are two such men. Satan continues to be an angel of light.

"a" antichrists are those people who try to assume positions that clearly belong to Jesus. And there are many. They just to do not rise the the level of the "A". You can become "a" antichrist just by judging others. We are not the judges. Jesus is.

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BlessedMan
1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

Fortunately, I said "as I see it," becaue I can not really give a reference for "a" & "A".

Yes, I had this in mind when I made my comment, and thank you. I appreciate that.

The idea I have about the antichrist, is simple, and actually is based upon scripture. I will flesh this out a little better in another post. But, for all intents and purposes, "antichrist," is never capitalized in scripture. And there has to be a reason for that? There are only 4 verses in the entire Bible that even mention that word:

Quote

1Jn_2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

IF we were to go by context, I think it is apparent that "antichrist" is a blanket term, if you will, of numerous entities. It seems more like a collective or plural context to me, at first reading.

I also believe there is an extremely important reason for this. IF one could actually pinpoint "THE Antichrist," then it would make our great prophecies the laughing stock, and likely relegated to the "cult" kingdom. It would then be far too easy for "timesetters" and the like to dupe us with so called real-time prophecies that can and would go so far as to "predict" a definite time for the second coming because, hey, if we know who the "Antichrist" is, then why worry about all the other ones? Are we not already seeing this all over the internet?

The very reason that "the elect" would be deceived should Jesus not return when prophetic time has expired is that in our human strength, we and our human intellect, we wont be able to tel the difference between the true or the false. If we cannot be more focused on the deliverance aspects of the fourth commandment, for example, could it be possible that such ones will in the end fall to the deception? Our great pride in our doctrinal prowess, so called has been failing God and His church for years, because its essentially like firing blanks at a target that we know will kill us.

According to scripture; it is infinitely  necessary that we know WHO Jesus is, to us personally, (1 John 1:1-3) than it will ever be for us to know who/what some supposed Antichrist is.

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pierrepaul
On 6/27/2020 at 8:08 PM, JoeMo said:

Reminds me of the hateful rhetoric that SDA's used to (and to some extent, still do) generate hatred and prejudice against The RCC and the Papacy.

Yes. It's easy to target the Tennessee guy and portray him as a nutcase. But, aside from the date setting, is it any crazier than the idea that there is a vast conspiracy (for which there is NO evidence) among the papacy and US protestants to amend or abrogate the US Constitution, force people to worship on Sunday, and chase down, persecute, hunt and kill some obscure sect called the SDAs that few have heard of, and none is fearful of? And then the whole world, including Muslim Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia etc., including Hindu India, including Buddhist/atheist China, etc. will line up behind the Pope and exert their energies to hunt down and kill SDAs who are barely even present in their countries? The idea of an Islamic bomb in Nashville is far more probable than our own conspiracy theories.

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Gustave
1 hour ago, pierrepaul said:

Yes. It's easy to target the Tennessee guy and portray him as a nutcase. But, aside from the date setting, is it any crazier than the idea that there is a vast conspiracy (for which there is NO evidence) among the papacy and US protestants to amend or abrogate the US Constitution, force people to worship on Sunday, and chase down, persecute, hunt and kill some obscure sect called the SDAs that few have heard of, and none is fearful of? And then the whole world, including Muslim Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia etc., including Hindu India, including Buddhist/atheist China, etc. will line up behind the Pope and exert their energies to hunt down and kill SDAs who are barely even present in their countries? The idea of an Islamic bomb in Nashville is far more probable than our own conspiracy theories.

I was thinking along those same lines pierrepaul! The other thing that seems clear is that generally Christianity is becoming less and less a popular belief. Growing up as a kid I can remember as a common occurrence other kids asking each other "WHAT CHURCH DO YOU GO TO"?  These days no one cares because the majority of people you run into don't go to Church and could care less if you do or not and care even less about what kind of Church you attend. 

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BlessedMan
On 6/27/2020 at 6:08 PM, JoeMo said:

Reminds me of the hateful rhetoric that SDA's used to (and to some extent, still do) generate hatred and prejudice against The RCC and the Papacy.

OTOH, I do believe that fundamentalist Islam (not mainstream Muslims) is as much of a threat to religious liberty and nationalism  (vs. globalism) as the RCC has ever been.  It doesn't have to be stated in such hateful terms, though.

I wonder just who it is that gets to dictate to everyone else what would be classed as "hateful terms?" I rarely look at the news, so called anymore as it is not the news. But everytime I do look at it, that is one "definition" that seems to get broader with every sweep of the pen. Dictated "diversity" or "inclusion" is anything but.

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BlessedMan
3 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

The idea of an Islamic bomb in Nashville is far more probable than our own conspiracy theories.

That would depend upon one being able to prove that said "conspiracies" are indeed taking place by official Adventist sources. And a few other things. Your post has echoes of the conciliarist heresy of Pierre d’Ailly and Gerson, and "the learning church." 

3 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

And then the whole world, including Muslim Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia etc., including Hindu India, including Buddhist/atheist China, etc. will line up

The Bible is clear, that "the whole world wondered after the beast."  This is not "an Adventist conspiracy theory." No matter how much one does not like it. Seems to me people talked exactly like this when they were asking "how will such a big entity as The USSR ever be taught the gospel?" The entire structure came tumbling down like dominoes, and seemingly over night. I wont get into who was behind that just now, as I doubt most would be accepting of it, people prefer media fodder to reality, but history records those movements as just what prophecy predicted. There is no reason to suppose it will be otherwise when "the whole world" does all that "wondering" after that "beast."

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JoeMo
On 6/29/2020 at 11:23 AM, BlessedMan said:

The Bible is clear, that "the whole world wondered after the beast."  This is not "an Adventist conspiracy theory.

I agree. The Adventist conspiracy theory  is that the beast is the RCC and apostate Protestant denominations.  Just cuz it's an SDA conspiracy theory doesn't mean it's a lie or wrong.  Doesn't mean it's right, either.  But it is possible.  I personally believe it is much larger than that; although it does include the papacy and the leaders of apostate woke churches.

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phkrause

Not sure why anyone believes it's a SDA conspiracy?? This was not an SDA teaching to begin with!! Every single reformer believed and preached this!! We as a church just confirmed what they believed!!

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BlessedMan
2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

The Adventist conspiracy theory  is that the beast is the RCC and apostate Protestant denominations.

PK is right. Its not "an Adventist conspiracy theory," at all. Its much bigger than that.

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JoeMo
14 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

PK is right. Its not "an Adventist conspiracy theory," at all. Its much bigger than that.

Actually, it was JoeMo that said that.

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pierrepaul

The reformers taught that the papacy was the beast. No reformer taught that there was or would be a conspiracy between the papacy and the protestants to persecute SDAs. The Sunday Law fantasy and the idea that SDAs would be singled out for persecution was invented out of whole cloth by the Adventist movement.

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BlessedMan
2 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

The reformers taught that the papacy was the beast. No reformer taught that there was or would be a conspiracy between the papacy and the protestants to persecute SDAs. The Sunday Law fantasy and the idea that SDAs would be singled out for persecution was invented out of whole cloth by the Adventist movement.

So...I guess this could be classed as

Quote

"terrible publicity for the Adventist Church." 😀

 

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JoeMo
On 7/2/2020 at 7:22 AM, pierrepaul said:

The reformers taught that the papacy was the beast. No reformer taught that there was or would be a conspiracy between the papacy and the protestants to persecute SDAs. The Sunday Law fantasy and the idea that SDAs would be singled out for persecution was invented out of whole cloth by the Adventist movement.

While I agree that a conspiracy between the papacy and apostate Protestant churches to single out and persecute SDA's is probably a fable, I do still believe that the papacy will play a major part in end-time events; as they will likely lead the charge for a one-world government and religion.

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pierrepaul

Perhaps. The influence of the papacy has been in a steady decline for the last 500 years and with the exception of the period of the western schism, it is possibly now at the lowest point since around 750 AD when the papacy was established as a joint secular/spiritual power. Today the Vatican is a big tourist attraction and people look at the Swiss guards and the papal entourages as a novelty. When the pope travels, people come out to see him much like the traveling circuses of days gone by. The pope generates much curiosity, but few take anything he says or writes seriously. Maybe one day the papacy may regain some influence, but likely not in my lifetime nor in the lifetime of my children.

And even if over the next couple centuries the papacy manages to reverse its decline in influence in the West, the idea that China, India and the Muslim world, comprising about half of humanity, would take any cues from the Pope borders on the ludicrous.

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