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Christmas Trees


Gregory Matthews
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The Christmas season will soon be upon us.  Debates will arise within Adventism as to our celebration of Christmas and the placement of Christmas trees in our churches.  Ellen White will be quoted on both sides of those issues.

I suggest that we place Chrismon trees in our churches.  These clearly replace the modern commercial appeal of Christmas with a celebration of Christ.  As few people reading this will be familiar with Chrismon trees the following articles will be helpful.  The first gives the origin of Chrismon trees.  The second provides information related to the items placed on the tree.

In the beginning, Chrismon trees were decorated by items hand-made by congregational members.  Today   instructions, patterns, and actual ornaments may be purchased.

http://www.gloptbaptist.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chrismon-History_R3.pdf

https://thetandd.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/symbols-of-christ-chrismon-tree-decorations-hold-true-spirit-of-holiday/article_f9df9dca-1521-11ea-af51-3f5d003ce2e6.htmltml

 

 

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22 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The Christmas season will soon be upon us.  Debates will arise within Adventism as to our celebration of Christmas and the placement of Christmas trees in our churches.  Ellen White will be quoted on both sides of those issues.

I suggest that we place Chrismon trees in our churches.  These clearly replace the modern commercial appeal of Christmas with a celebration of Christ.  As few people reading this will be familiar with Chrismon trees the following articles will be helpful.  The first gives the origin of Chrismon trees.  The second provides information related to the items placed on the tree.

In the beginning, Chrismon trees were decorated by items hand-made by congregational members.  Today   instructions, patterns, and actual ornaments may be purchased.

http://www.gloptbaptist.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chrismon-History_R3.pdf

https://thetandd.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/symbols-of-christ-chrismon-tree-decorations-hold-true-spirit-of-holiday/article_f9df9dca-1521-11ea-af51-3f5d003ce2e6.htmltml

 

 

Supposed to be a shortage of christmas trees this year so maybe people will be looking for alternatives

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On 10/7/2021 at 1:38 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

The Christmas season will soon be upon us.  Debates will arise within Adventism as to our celebration of Christmas and the placement of Christmas trees in our churches.  Ellen White will be quoted on both sides of those issues.

I suggest that we place Chrismon trees in our churches.  These clearly replace the modern commercial appeal of Christmas with a celebration of Christ.  As few people reading this will be familiar with Chrismon trees the following articles will be helpful.  The first gives the origin of Chrismon trees.  The second provides information related to the items placed on the tree.

In the beginning, Chrismon trees were decorated by items hand-made by congregational members.  Today   instructions, patterns, and actual ornaments may be purchased.

http://www.gloptbaptist.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chrismon-History_R3.pdf

https://thetandd.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/symbols-of-christ-chrismon-tree-decorations-hold-true-spirit-of-holiday/article_f9df9dca-1521-11ea-af51-3f5d003ce2e6.htmltml

 

 

Pastor Matthew: At one time I love Christmas and I would have a tree cut out from the woods. Uncle Mike would bring me one each year. My mother was never interested in the tree. I was carrying my son and Christmas was over. I love the SDA Bible Commentary and I had volume 5 down. I was looking to go and study on Daniel which is what I normally do. However, I was flipping and Jeremiah open to Chapter 10 and I started to keep on flipping. But something told me to stop and read the Chapter:

 Hear ye the word which YAHWEH speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of Heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Jer 10:1-5 (WOY)

Now, Pastor: I grew up knowing and studying all of EGW writings. I in Message to Young People she wrote about putting money on the tree. We did not have wreaths on the door back them just the Christmas Plants. Yes we song THE MESSIAH but my mother did not go out the way on Christmas. I did, I decorated the tree and boy I enjoyed it. It all change when I read those verses above. I immediately went out to the library and go the book the holidays. Little did I know that the word holiday actually was holy day. Then to my amazement it told the truth about Christmas and the tree exactly what Jeremiah was saying. It was pagan! I learn about all of the holidays were pagan. I from that day on changed. My son and I never celebrated Christmas.

I ask my mother why she never celebrated Christmas? She told me that she was taught Santa Clause was real. She decided sneak and see Santa Clause eating the cookies she made. To her surprise it was her father. She was so hurt because her parents was strict about lying and the lied to her. That changed her about Christmas.

Now, I know people have got heated about Christmas and the tree but we must tell the truth. EGW said herself if they gave error and she is found to be wrong; stand for truth! I have and will. I cannot make anyone accept this. Only THE HOLY SPIRIT can lead people to accept the truth. I must provide it every opportunity that I have. I do and leave it in HIS HANDS!

That's my story and that's the truth! I will be 71 on the 15th of December!

Blessings!

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Much of our daily life can be associated with paganism.

*  We worship on Saturday, a day dedicated to a pagan god.

*  In fact, every day of the week is associated with a pagan god.

*  In the month of August we were reminded of a Roman god, as we were in other months.

*  There are many aspects of our normal religious life that were associated with paganism.

The fundamental issue is not what some person may have thought of something 4,000 years ago.  It is how we consider it today.

*  Easter while not exact, is very close to the actual death and resurrection of Christ.

*   Easter, as celebrated in the Christian community is thoroughly Christian, it is not pagan.

*  Christians do not in any manner use a tree as did pagans.  

*  NOTE:  I mentioned a Chrismon Tree.  Do you know anything about it?

 

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20 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Much of our daily life can be associated with paganism.

*  We worship on Saturday, a day dedicated to a pagan god.

*  In fact, every day of the week is associated with a pagan god.

*  In the month of August we were reminded of a Roman god, as were in other months.

*  There are many aspects of our normal religious life that were associated with paganism.

The fundamental issue is not what some person may have thought of something 4,000 years ago.  It is how we consider it today.

*  Easter while not exact, is very close to the actual death and resurrection of Christ.

*   Easter, as celebrated in the Christian community is thoroughly Christian, it is not pagan.

*  Christians do not in any manner use a tree as did pagans.  

*  NOTE:  I mentioned a Chrismon Tree.  Do you know anything about it?

 

I am making Chrismon decorations as we speak.  This Christmas happens to be a 1 in 15 year occurrance . Entire family will be here, even g.grandchildren. Thought decorations for each would be a fun memory. And yes we will have a tree.

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I don't see a difference between Chrismon and Christmas. I think the ornaments are nice, though, but i like Christmas ornaments too.

Our family has Christmas. We have a couple of trees, and ornaments which the kids made years ago, ornaments from friends, some of my mom's, and we make food and watch fun movies.  I know, I know, why am I celebrating Christmas? Because it's fun, and I'm not bothered by it. We do birthdays too. The only birthday I've read about it the Bible was Belshazzars  😳

 

At our church  we give gifts to immigrant children. We have a tree in the foyer at Christmastime, and the sanctuary is full of poinsettias. It is lovely.

 

Jeremiah was always hollering about idols.  God was extremely angry about their use, and  many,many verses are about that.  One of my favorites

Jer 2:27,28

"Saying to a tree, ‘You are my father,’
And to a stone, ‘You gave birth to me.’
For they have turned their back to Me, and not their face.
But in the time of their trouble
They will say, ‘Arise and save us.’
28 But where are your gods that you have made for yourselves?
Let them arise,
If they can save you in the time of your [a]trouble;
For according to the number of your cities
Are your gods, O Judah."

Here is another:

Jer 3:9

9" So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees."

That is why they went into captivity.

For me, he is not talking about a Christmas tree in Jer 10--we do not pray or worship our trees--And even back before chap 10,  Jeremiah  talks about gods fashioned by man and how weak they are--they can't do anything. And they were well adorned with gold and silver. 

My .02  FWIW

 

 

 

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We always have a christmas tree and always exchange presents.

There never has been the worship of idols and that is what Jeremiah was speaking against. I have heard others say how traumatized they were as children when they realized Santa wasn't real. We never told our boys about Santa, but if we had they would not have been traumatized finding out he wasn't real. I don't believe children are that easily traumatized over something like that.

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It is so easy to cover up sin. Even thought paganism was done or worshiped on the Sabbath. We know the truth. It appears that some do believe that the Scriptures was speaking exactly what I stated. I feel that most do not believe the truth about the worship of Christmas and why it was during the winter time.

In the Northern hemisphere, the shortest day and longest night of the year falls on December 21 or December 22 and is called the winter solstice. Many ancient people believed that the sun was a god and that winter came every year because the sun god had become sick and weak. They celebrated the solstice because it meant that at last the sun god would begin to get well. Evergreen boughs reminded them of all the green plants that would grow again when the sun god was strong and summer would return. BY HISTORY.COM EDITORS

Now of all primitive customs and beliefs there is none which has a greater claim upon our interest than the worship of the tree, for there is none which has had a wider distribution throughout the world, or has left a deeper impress on the traditions and observances of mankind. Its antiquity is undoubted, for when history begins to speak, we find it already firmly established amongst the oldest civilized races. THE SACRED TREE OR THE TREE IN RELIGION AND MYTH BY MRS. J. H. PHILPOT

...Is it a coincidence that the world over, celebrations of this nature take place in the middle of winter, on the winter solstice? The winter solstice is the most popular time of the year for winter celebrations. The winter solstice is the time of the year when the earth’s axis tilts the farthest away from the sun in the northern hemisphere. Consequently, this causes the winter solstice to be the longest night of the year. After that, the days start getting longer again. This also officially marks the start of winter. AccuTeaching

The Bible said to study or to research. I told my story side of Christmas. But now comes the research. Pagans is not what most think it is. We must understand the importance of Nimrod and what he did. This is what EGW said:

The men of Babel had determined to establish a government that should be independent of God...Had they gone on unchecked, they would have demoralized the world in its infancy. Their confederacy was founded in rebellion; a kingdom established for self-exaltation, but in which God was to have no rule or honor. Had this confederacy been permitted, a mighty power would have borne sway to banish righteousness--and with it peace, happiness, and security--from the earth. For the DIVINE Statutes, which are "Holy and Just and Good" (Romans 7:12), men were endeavoring to substitute laws to suit the purpose of their own selfish and cruel hearts. PP p. 124

There was a reason why Nimrod was called out in the Bible. Even though most today do not believe that paganism is close to the belief and practices of YAHWEH!  Satan used paganism to mix up certain truths in their false worship. It all started with the serpent and the tree. Why do you think the Bible call Satan a dragon? The serpent could fly and he was the only animal that had intellect ! All ancient people knew this creature as a dragon though not depicted as they drew it. Remember they drew their pictures after the fall. The tree of good and evil has been worship ever since.

For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. 1Ki 14:23

These people studied the stars more advance than today. We must stop thinking these people were jungle bunnies or some erroneous Neanderthal being with no brain. These being used more of their brains then we ever could today. False science and religion has ruined the truth. Nimrod was never forgotten and he was Baal, Horus, Mithras, Saturnalia, who was worshiped during the winter solstice. They all knew, as we should. that Spring is the beginning of life, where winter is death. Now, it should be understood that YAHWEH started the year in March/April and not in January. YAHWEH only name one month and it was the beginning of the year. Moses was to tell the children of IsraEL. Ex 12:1 It was called Abib and yes it had to do with crop, the first fruit which was barley (YAHSHUA THE WAVE SHEAF before HIS FATHER). That's a whole story within itself! But YAHWEH was teaching about the renewing of life back to HIM!

THE FATHER was showing that YAHSHUA birth would come in the spring. HE would be THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE! Satan even reads the Bible and tremble, but it is sad many of us don't! We have been taught to believe a lie!

  I hate and abhor lying: but thy Law do I love. Ps 119:163

Deliver my soul, O YAHWEH, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue. Ps 120:2

Lying lips are abomination to YAHWEH: but they that deal truly are his delight. Pro 2:22 

There was a time when the pagan holiday known as Christmas had actual Christian overtones. This is no longer the case. The modern holiday no longer had anything at all to do with Jesus. Today it is a time for racking up large credit card debts, lying to children about Santa Clause, teaching them commercialism and materialism, singing songs about glow-in-the-dark reindeers, and for gouging at one's neighbor while fighting the Christmas crowds and traffic. One can go through a drug store card rack and not find a single Christmas card that even mentions our Lord, and manger scenes are being outlawed. Christmas originated as a way to celebrate a pagan holiday by disguising it as a Christian one. Now Satan Clause, flying reindeer, mistletoe, and Christmas trees are all methods to remove Christ entirely from the holiday and return it to its pure pagan roots...

The International Children's Bible does not want poor little Christian children of being involved with the fun of celebrating the pagan holiday like their non-Christian classmates, so they presented it this way:

"The customs of other people are worth nothing. Their idols are nothing but wood from the forest. They are made by a worker with his chisel..."

In order to force this obscuration of the verse they deceive their readers by translating "matsad", meaning axe, as chisel. A wooden idol may be chiseled, but not cut down with an axe as a tree is. What conniving snakes!

NIV: ...they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

This pornographers who own the NIV obscure the verse even worse. Here the tree is cut down and then it is carved as an idol. This requires an axe and a chisel both when there is only one tool in the verse. It is bad enough to lie about the chisel, but to interject both adds a level of incompetence that is mind boggling.

The ever silly Living Bible perverts the verse even more.

"They cut down a tree and carve an idol..."

The Amplified Bible finds a different way to use deceit to obscure the significance of the verse:

"... it is but a tree which one cuts out of the forest [to make for himself a god], the work of the craftsman with the ax or other tool"

Or other tool? Make a god? Where is any of that in the Hebrew?

Ridiculous KJV Bible Corrections: Christmas Trees by John Hinton, Ph.D. jhinton@post.harvard.edu

I answer Dr. Hinton firmly NO! They worship and decorated a tree and they cut it down with an axe! The tree itself was the idol! What we want to believe by being deceived seem harmless. However, it is a choice that each of us have to make. Now to answer your statement and question Pastor Matthew:

First, Chrismon Tree was started in 1957 by a Lutheran believer. Mrs. Spencer she felt to decorate the Christmas Tree should be  more holy than the bright ornaments. So she want to keep it in the thought of Jesus. She placed the title of  “Chi Rho” on the tree that actual stands for *christos! There were other decorations to represent Jesus added later by Mrs. Spencer including gold white also silver. (The Greek name for Latin Soldier's worshipers of the Persian god Mithras.) I suggest all need to research this!

Because it appears that paganism is associated with today beliefs. Here is something maybe all should do tremble as Satan does when he reads the Bible:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev21:8 

Finally, I do not want anyone to believe that I am trying to convert you as its been said. I can't! I do not have the power to do that at all. What is my calling, that all of us have, is to teach the gospel, that's it! That is all I am capable of doing and I am require to do so. We all are! But, it is THE HOLY SPIRIT that will lead you, HE HAS THE POWER TO DO SO! I just want to make it very clear we are all individuals and we must stand for something or fall for anything. I want to stand for truth and I also want to share it! But I can't convince anyone of you to believe it! It a choice, just like I made you have to make it yourself. Ask YAHWEH if you want, like I did; is this truth or not! The only thing else I can do is pray for each everyone of you, and I hope you do the same for me.

Blessings!

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15 hours ago, bonnie said:

We always have a christmas tree and always exchange presents.

There never has been the worship of idols and that is what Jeremiah was speaking against. I have heard others say how traumatized they were as children when they realized Santa wasn't real. We never told our boys about Santa, but if we had they would not have been traumatized finding out he wasn't real. I don't believe children are that easily traumatized over something like that.

Jun 21, 2009 · Saturday correspond to the planet Saturn, in honor of the Roman god Saturn. Latin : dies Saturni, or the “Day of Saturn”. Roman : The Romans had a mid-winter festival in honor of

So does the above mean we are worshipping the sun god Saturn by attending church on saturday?

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7 hours ago, bonnie said:

Jun 21, 2009 · Saturday correspond to the planet Saturn, in honor of the Roman god Saturn. Latin : dies Saturni, or the “Day of Saturn”. Roman : The Romans had a mid-winter festival in honor of

So does the above mean we are worshipping the sun god Saturn by attending church on saturday?

They certainly are going back to Bible time Bonnie! Except one, the month of Abib that YAHWEH Named! Because we have these pagan names, they do not keep us in following and accepting the truth! Saturn is not the sun god it is a planet.

It amazes me that despite centuries of religion dominating almost every aspect of life in Britain or at the very least exerting a great deal of influence on the public and private sphere, the English language has managed to retain its non-Christian names of the week (with Tuesday through Friday directly referencing the Norse gods and goddess Tyr, Odin, Thor and Frigg, Saturday - Saturn and Sunday and Monday the sun and moon respectively, with the moon personified as a deity). How did English retain its non-Christian names of the week? ENGLISH LANGUAGE & USAGE

What amazes me is why did anyone accept to believe in the Sabbath, which is the name I use! Why did anyone become apart of the SDA Church or believe we are suppose to keep the Commandments and teach the Gospel? I have been a Bible Worker and believed the truth of the Bible. Did I learn more exactly like EGW said would happen yes! If you want to keep pagan customs that's your choice!

My mother was a Missionary Baptist and found the Commandments. She ask her Pastor whey were not keeping all of them? He told her that they were only for the "Jewish Dispensation!" I never quite got that and neither did my mother. We migrated to New Haven CT. My mother and father together would have Bible studies with every church you could name. It was by accident at work a coworker told her he have Bible Studies with a certain Bible people. He was joking around and he used the Bible and my mother got on him. Missionary Baptist in her day, did not smoke, drink, curse, go to movies and wore very little jewelry! The coworker told her, he really knew his Bible because of these people who he study with him. My mother read about the Sabbath and wanted to find a church who kept all of the Commandments. Well she ask him to ask them to come. She questioned them after two weeks like everybody else. She found that they kept the Sabbath and that was it. She took us to Church and she had her pearl earrings and pearl necklace on. She notice that they did not wear any jewelry back then and she bend down and took them off!

My mother stood up and kept the Sabbath and took a stand for the Sabbath at the VA Hospital and she  won! She was the only one in the hospital! Would you believe that other Adventists work there did not stand like my mother! A Baptist preacher start working at the VA and started a short rivalry, he lost and all with them was told they could have their walking paper. That died! Finally, after the death of my father, her husband; a notice was posted that no one could have a special day off. The only one was my mother. She turned in her resignation and the top Director could not sleep. She found my mother a job, but the test was not over. She would have to work Sabbath Evening and she refused. The supervisor told her he had nothing else for her. The top man from Washington DC had come to New Haven and he heard about my mother and I know this was a miracle. He made them find my mother a job because of her work ethic as well! She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

Now, I can only tell all, I know that paganism will not effect truth! It never has and it never will. YAHWEH Say that HE CHANGES NOT! My mother believed and was a well known Bible worker for many great Evangelist! She stood true to her faith and she never changed and she encouraged me to stand for the things I discovered. She was my greatest champion! My mother, my aunt and others stop celebrating or believing in Christmas, Easter, Halloween, New Year because of my discovery and research. I miss her encouragement now that she is asleep but THE HOLY SPIRIT is here and shows me the way. HE keeps me! I am not judging or condemning anyone because I am a created being like all of us. What I can do is to tell you to pray and to make your own choice. You and I must stand and what we have chosen will be our reward at the end! I just have given my testimony in THE NAME of YAHSHUA!

Blessings!

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13 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

They certainly are going back to Bible time Bonnie! Except one, the month of Abib that YAHWEH Named! Because we have these pagan names, they do not keep us in following and accepting the truth! Saturn is not the sun god it is a planet.

 

It was already stated Saturn was a planet. My error. Did not intened to state Saturn was  the sun God

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29 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

My mother was a Missionary Baptist and found the Commandments. She ask her Pastor whey were not keeping all of them? He told her that they were only for the "Jewish Dispensation!" I never quite got that and neither did my mother. We migrated to New Haven CT. My mother and father together would have Bible studies with every church you could name. It was by accident at work a coworker told her he have Bible Studies with a certain Bible people. He was joking around and he used the Bible and my mother got on him. Missionary Baptist in her day, did not smoke, drink, curse, go to movies and wore very little jewelry! The coworker told her, he really knew his Bible because of these people who he study with him. My mother read about the Sabbath and wanted to find a church who kept all of the Commandments. Well she ask him to ask them to come. She questioned them after two weeks like everybody else. She found that they kept the Sabbath and that was it. She took us to Church and she had her pearl earrings and pearl necklace on. She notice that they did not wear any jewelry back then and she bend down and took them off!

My mother stood up and kept the Sabbath and took a stand for the Sabbath at the VA Hospital and she  won! She was the only one in the hospital! Would you believe that other Adventists work there did not stand like my mother! A Baptist preacher start working at the VA and started a short rivalry, he lost and all with them was told they could have their walking paper. That died! Finally, after the death of my father, her husband; a notice was posted that no one could have a special day off. The only one was my mother. She turned in her resignation and the top Director could not sleep. She found my mother a job, but the test was not over. She would have to work Sabbath Evening and she refused. The supervisor told her he had nothing else for her. The top man from Washington DC had come to New Haven and he heard about my mother and I know this was a miracle. He made them find my mother a job because of her work ethic as well! She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

 

I have an abnormal amount of family in the medical field and as such do not always have the ability to have Sabbath off.. Many times lives are at stake. Perhaps your mother was able to shift the Sabbath hours she took off to others but that is not always the case. I am certainly glad my DR did not tell me I would have to do with a substitute when I needed him.

 

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15 hours ago, bonnie said:

It was already stated Saturn was a planet. My error. Did not intened to state Saturn was  the sun God

That's okay we all make mistakes!

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15 hours ago, bonnie said:

I have an abnormal amount of family in the medical field and as such do not always have the ability to have Sabbath off.. Many times lives are at stake. Perhaps your mother was able to shift the Sabbath hours she took off to others but that is not always the case. I am certainly glad my DR did not tell me I would have to do with a substitute when I needed him.

 

My mother did not have to shift any time at all. I cannot tell you about what others do concerning the Sabbath but only what she did. My mother took a stand and her faith for taking the stand proved to be a blessing. By her stand has shown me that faith can move mountains if you believe! I have seen miracles all throughout her life because of her faith! It has taught me not to waiver but stand strong in my faith through YAHSHUA! I have been bless because of it with my heart surgery, my jobs that I refuse to work on the Sabbath, being sepsis but living and so much more! Praise THE MOST HIGH! 

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19 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

My mother did not have to shift any time at all. I cannot tell you about what others do concerning the Sabbath but only what she did. My mother took a stand and her faith for taking the stand proved to be a blessing. By her stand has shown me that faith can move mountains if you believe! I have seen miracles all throughout her life because of her faith! It has taught me not to waiver but stand strong in my faith through YAHSHUA! I have been bless because of it with my heart surgery, my jobs that I refuse to work on the Sabbath, being sepsis but living and so much more! Praise THE MOST HIGH! 

Most SDA's refuse Sabbath employment.  If your mother had previously worked on Sabbath at the VA and then refused to, yes someone had to replace her. I have two sons that are basically on call 365/24. They are responsible for the safety and comfort of hundreds of vulnerable patients each and everyday. There isn't any shifting that responsibility to anyone else. I have close family members that had a hospice . As those in their care could not pick and choose when to die many Sabbath days saw them on duty.  My mother worked many shifts straight thru, fri morning till sunday morning by patients begging her not to leave them.

Whether to care for ill patients or other critical wok it is a personal decision I am proud of each and everyone of the job they did/do and the love and commitment to vulnerable people

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

They were all SDA's and everyone felt they were honoring God, keeping the sabbath and am sure it never occurred to them to honor the day as a pagan day

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, bonnie said:

Most SDA's refuse Sabbath employment.  If your mother had previously worked on Sabbath at the VA and then refused to, yes someone had to replace her. I have two sons that are basically on call 365/24. They are responsible for the safety and comfort of hundreds of vulnerable patients each and everyday. There isn't any shifting that responsibility to anyone else. I have close family members that had a hospice . As those in their care could not pick and choose when to die many Sabbath days saw them on duty.  My mother worked many shifts straight thru, fri morning till sunday morning by patients begging her not to leave them.

Whether to care for ill patients or other critical wok it is a personal decision I am proud of each and everyone of the job they did/do and the love and commitment to vulnerable people

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

They were all SDA's and everyone felt they were honoring God, keeping the sabbath and am sure it never occurred to them to honor the day as a pagan day

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bonnie, you do not know this. This was back in the late '50s. I haven't told the entire story because all of it doesn't need to be told. What is important and what I shared was her faith. I think people should respect someone's testimony and leave it at that. I provided no matter what, faith in the truth can move mountains.

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27 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Bonnie, you do not know this. This was back in the late '50s. I haven't told the entire story because all of it doesn't need to be told. What is important and what I shared was her faith. I think people should respect someone's testimony and leave it at that. I provided no matter what, faith in the truth can move mountains.

Generally I agree with you.  Many in the medical field face this decision. The problem I have with what you say is comments that have to cast a negative on those that don't do as you have done.

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

My mother also worked the 50's and 60's and 70's.  As a private duty nurse she cared for many in their last hours and or days. When they begged her to stay with them she would have never left them,nor did she believe her beliefs required her to leave dying, desperate people. She kept the sabbath and honored God and not a pagan name

 Those caring for hospice patients, giving them comfort and  prayer  regardless of the day, they  honored God, not a pagan God

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On 10/8/2021 at 5:34 PM, stinsonmarri said:

 

I ask my mother why she never celebrated Christmas? She told me that she was taught Santa Clause was real. She decided sneak and see Santa Clause eating the cookies she made. To her surprise it was her father. She was so hurt because her parents was strict about lying and the lied to her. That changed her about Christmas.

 

It is so sad when parents do this. I grew up seeing Santa/Jul Nissen as a symbol of the spirit of selflessness and giving, not as a literal person. Every year we would take turns playing Santa or Jul Nissen. This has always kept the symbol special, and no broken heart to learn he is not a real person. 

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16 hours ago, Kevin H said:

It is so sad when parents do this. I grew up seeing Santa/Jul Nissen as a symbol of the spirit of selflessness and giving, not as a literal person. Every year we would take turns playing Santa or Jul Nissen. This has always kept the symbol special, and no broken heart to learn he is not a real person. 

Neither is Christmas real also, it was not YAHSHUA'S Birthday. It is a untrue. We need to search the truth about Christmas and see for yourself why should not celebrate the pagan winter solstice that why it is celebrated for!

Blessings!

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21 hours ago, bonnie said:

Generally I agree with you.  Many in the medical field face this decision. The problem I have with what you say is comments that have to cast a negative on those that don't do as you have done.

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

My mother also worked the 50's and 60's and 70's.  As a private duty nurse she cared for many in their last hours and or days. When they begged her to stay with them she would have never left them,nor did she believe her beliefs required her to leave dying, desperate people. She kept the sabbath and honored God and not a pagan name

 Those caring for hospice patients, giving them comfort and  prayer  regardless of the day, they  honored God, not a pagan God

 

21 hours ago, bonnie said:

Generally I agree with you.  Many in the medical field face this decision. The problem I have with what you say is comments that have to cast a negative on those that don't do as you have done.

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

My mother also worked the 50's and 60's and 70's.  As a private duty nurse she cared for many in their last hours and or days. When they begged her to stay with them she would have never left them,nor did she believe her beliefs required her to leave dying, desperate people. She kept the sabbath and honored God and not a pagan name

 Those caring for hospice patients, giving them comfort and  prayer  regardless of the day, they  honored God, not a pagan God

You know I was simply giving my heart felt testimony. I was not asking you to be concern about who else was working. Your mother was not my mother and I am not THE MOST HIGH. My mother was a Baptist and learn of the Sabbath. She kept having Bible Studies until she found the Church who was keeping the Sabbath. I am not questioning your mother nor should you question mine. It was her faith and only her faith to show how she found the Sabbath. She was determine by her faith to keep it. No one is judging your mother at all! It was her faith that was so strong who encourage me to stand when I learn the truth about Christmas. I celebrated it and went way out with the tree and the works. She did not but she bought us gifts. When I found out about Christmas, that day I read it to her and I told I was going to research it. She agreed with me and when I learned the truth I share my faith and believe to stop celebrating things that was pagan. That how she felt about worshipping on Sunday it was wrong! The Bible says everyone have to make up in their own mind to seek salvation. I pray you do what your faith requires of you to do.

Blessings!

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18 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

You know I was simply giving my heart felt testimony. I was not asking you to be concern about who else was working. Your mother was not my mother and I am not THE MOST HIGH. My mother was a Baptist and learn of the Sabbath. She kept having Bible Studies until she found the Church who was keeping the Sabbath. I am not questioning your mother nor should you question mine. It was her faith and only her faith to show how she found the Sabbath. She was determine by her faith to keep it. No one is judging your mother at all! It was her faith that was so strong who encourage me to stand when I learn the truth about Christmas. I celebrated it and went way out with the tree and the works. She did not but she bought us gifts. When I found out about Christmas, that day I read it to her and I told I was going to research it. She agreed with me and when I learned the truth I share my faith and believe to stop celebrating things that was pagan. That how she felt about worshipping on Sunday it was wrong! The Bible says everyone have to make up in their own mind to seek salvation. I pray you do what your faith requires of you to do.

Blessings!

You again ignore the response to you and go off in another direction.  This type of statements is what I had the problem with.

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

And your mother being the only one to stand for the sabbath etc,

Very clearly from your statement tat those that did not stand for the sabbath in the manor of your mother did not keep the sabbath, did not honor the true name and worshipped a pagan name

 

It is always the same, those that do not accept what you believe are somehow less than you. Because after all you have decided what truth is.

Most don't see anything breaking the sabbath by caring for the sick and dying. If someone has been scheduled and has been wiling to work sabbath and suddenly request if off. Yup someone has to be there for for the DR had to clear for surgery and monitor my mother's vital signs. 

But that was your mother's decision

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11 minutes ago, bonnie said:

You again ignore the response to you and go off in another direction.  This type of statements is what I had the problem with.

 She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

And your mother being the only one to stand for the sabbath etc,

Very clearly from your statement tat those that did not stand for the sabbath in the manor of your mother did not keep the sabbath, did not honor the true name and worshipped a pagan name

 

It is always the same, those that do not accept what you believe are somehow less than you. Because after all you have decided what truth is.

Most don't see anything breaking the sabbath by caring for the sick and dying. If someone has been scheduled and has been wiling to work sabbath and suddenly request if off. Yup someone has to be there for for the DR had to clear for surgery and monitor my mother's vital signs. 

But that was your mother's decision

You know it is always something with you. My mind was dealing with faith. Nothing more or nothing less. You just want to find something negative when there is none. I do not question anyone else that is you who does that. I gave my reason for not accepting pagan tradition. Do me a kind favor, go and pray try to find the good in what others provide. You are just looking to find something to pounce on. Find peace it will not work with me and you judgmental attitude. You just want to see something anything that was not there so you can do and act the way you do. Boy, I am glad that I am a strong woman who look for the good in others.

I am going to stand on my principles and faith and if you can not accept that, fine! I do not care how you feel about my faith because it is not you that will give me my just reward. Neither can I give you anything. I did tried to share my faith. It didn't work so take care Bonnie.

Prayer is needed!

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55 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

 . You just want to see something anything that was not there so you can do and act the way you do. Boy, I am glad that I am a strong woman who look for the good in others.

I am going to stand on my principles and faith and if you can not accept that, fine!

I saw exactly what was there.  I think there has been a considerable lack of looking for the good in others . It isn't standing on your principals that is the problem.  It is the not so subtle walking on the principals of others at the same time.

For many of us what you see biblically as forbidding christmas trees and christmas is quite a stretch as is  worshipping of idols . Most SDA's well understand that Dec 25th is not the birthday of Jesus.

 

Taking care of sick and vulnerable people on sabbath is not breaking the sabbath to most. If that is what your mother chose to do that was a decision she made. Did not make her a better  christian ,nor did it make those that as you imply ,Fail to stand for the and fail to  honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14

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stinsonmarri,

I have no idea what your mother's role was at the VA, but if it involved the care, well being and safety of the patients someone would have had to take her place. Did she refuse to work sabbath because of pay or simply because it was considered work? There are those that need the care of others 24/7. Whatever your mother's role it was a decision that was hers to make. If this was a biblical requirement any SDA institution that cared for the sick, vulnerable and needy people would simply have to lock down from sunset fri to sunset sabbath. It would be one thing if it were a secular institution but something like Loma Linda simply could not make allowances for SDA's and demand others work in their place.

We had a family that were members of our small church. Very, very wealthy. They built two nursing homes where they were badly needed. The residents of this home needed care 24/7. Should they pay others to come in and break what to them was Sabbath or close down the nursing homes for 24 hours per week so that they could stand for the sabbath in the way same way your mother did? 

To make sure we are not honoring a pagan name  (She kept the Sabbath and honor the true name and not the pagan name! Isa 58:13, 14)

What would you suggest we call the other 6 days so we can avoid honoring a pagan name?

In fact our academies/colleges would have to as well. I don't think the dean of the academy where my boys went donated 1-24 hours out 7 or refused their responsibilities to over a 100 boys and their parents for 24 hours. Should  our local family that sells all kinds of evergreen trees ask what the purpose of the tree is? Are you using this for a christmas tree and or idol?

Unless something is an object of worship how does my christmas decorations become an idol?

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Bonnie:  You have given correct answers to important questions.

If it is wrong for a SDA to perform some sort of work on the Sabbath, it is also wrong for anyone else to perform that work.  Just because someone is a Baptist, who keeps Sunday, does not make what that persons does on the Sabbath right.

The position of the SDA Chruch, Jesus Christ and the Bible, is that on the Sabbath, there is necessary work that must be done on the Sabbath.  In many ways, the SDA Chruch leaves it up to the person and God as to exactly what work should be done on the Sabbath.

 

 

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