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Get out of marriage free card


B/W Photodude
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Given that in the Bible, only for adultery can one "legally" divorce their spouse and move on. But how long is that "card" good for? If you continue to live with your spouse but decide for a variety of reasons later on down the road, 5, 10, 25 years later that you want a divorce, are you still free to divorce?

If from the incident giving you your "get out of marriage free card", you create several new lives, does that invalidate your "card"?

However, an update, Jesus said if you look at another person lustfully, you have committed adultery. Does that give the spouse their "get out of Marriage free card"?

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Phodude has misunderstood the effect of divorce on the lives of people.  There is no such thing as divorced people getting out of marriage free.  There are costs that are paid in all circumstances, regardless of what they are.

In a situation where one marital partner attempts to murder the other, but fails to do so, would Photodude prohibit divorce and remarriage?  It happens.

In a situation where a marital partner attempts to end the life of one of their children, whould Photodude prohibit divorce and remarriage?  It happens.

On the assumption that Photodude is not presently involved in needing to make a decision relating to divorce,  I wonder why he seems so concerned about what someone else may be doing.  Why should he need to know the messy details of the life of someone else?  Why does he need to know whether or not adultery was involved?  In a denomination of some 21 million members, do all 21 million need to know that adultery was involved?   

 

 

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14 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

Given that in the Bible, only for adultery can one "legally" divorce their spouse and move on. But how long is that "card" good for? If you continue to live with your spouse but decide for a variety of reasons later on down the road, 5, 10, 25 years later that you want a divorce, are you still free to divorce?

If from the incident giving you your "get out of marriage free card", you create several new lives, does that invalidate your "card"?

However, an update, Jesus said if you look at another person lustfully, you have committed adultery. Does that give the spouse their "get out of Marriage free card"?

It has been quite sometime since "adultery only" has been the only reason that is church accepted for a divorce. Watching friends and family use their "get out of marriage free card" I cant think of one that thought or said the word free card. I don't think you meant it in a humorous way,but just saying

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I will attempt to answer B/W Photodude's questions myself.

10 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Given that in the Bible, only for adultery can one "legally" divorce their spouse and move on. But how long is that "card" good for? If you continue to live with your spouse but decide for a variety of reasons later on down the road, 5, 10, 25 years later that you want a divorce, are you still free to divorce?

If from the incident giving you your "get out of marriage free card", you create several new lives, does that invalidate your "card"?

However, an update, Jesus said if you look at another person lustfully, you have committed adultery. Does that give the spouse their "get out of Marriage free card"?

How long is the option to divorce given? I think it should be carefully and prayerfully considered; not a rash decision based on emotions alone. Marriage is a union and covenant between a man and woman--a union blessed by God. Dissolution of such a covenant is a serious matter.  That said, I do think that the decision shouldn't be one that takes years and years. In my opinion (as a married woman of 30+ years who has faced the possibility of divorce, and who was raised in a divorced home), the decision should be fairly evident within 6 months. 

When children are involved, I think the matter of seriously taking it to the Lord is even more pressing. People say that children are resilient, and while this is true, no child will ever live through a divorce unscarred. Divorce takes it's toll.

I do think B/W Photodude raises a great question regarding lust and the fact that even looking on another person lustfully is adulterous--and therefore, logically, grounds for divorce. Again, I think it should be carefully and prayerfully considered; never a rash decision based on emotions alone. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Morwenna said:

[Quoting B/W] Given that in the Bible, only for adultery can one "legally" divorce their spouse and move on.

Many Christian churches recognize the "Pauline privilege." That is the right to remarry in the case of abandonment. It is derived from this passage: 1Co 7:15  "But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. It is to peace that God has called you."

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14 hours ago, Morwenna said:

I will attempt to answer B/W Photodude's questions myself.

Thank you Morwenna for carefully considering my post!

On 11/3/2021 at 9:38 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Phodude has misunderstood the effect of divorce on the lives of people.  There is no such thing as divorced people getting out of marriage free.

Why should he need to know the messy details of the life of someone else?  Why does he need to know whether or not adultery was involved?

I have not misunderstood the effect of divorce on the lives of people. In fact, I understand too well. I am not interested in the messy details of someone else's divorce. No one should ever listen to one side of a marital dispute because you will never arrive at a just conclusion. I was not wanting to discuss the social implications of divorce but the words of Jesus when He discussed divorce. Everything else is another discussion.

On 11/3/2021 at 9:38 AM, bonnie said:

 I cant think of one that thought or said the word free card. I don't think you meant it in a humorous way,but just saying

Many church people, in discussing a divorce situation, are quick to define who is at fault and who gets to walk away without the moral implications of divorcing "illegally." Again, the social implications were not what I was thinking of. If it were, I would have gone to a different forum!

14 hours ago, Morwenna said:

How long is the option to divorce given? I think it should be carefully and prayerfully considered; not a rash decision based on emotions alone.

When children are involved, I think the matter of seriously taking it to the Lord is even more pressing. People say that children are resilient, and while this is true, no child will ever live through a divorce unscarred. Divorce takes it's toll.

I do think B/W Photodude raises a great question regarding lust and the fact that even looking on another person lustfully is adulterous--and therefore, logically, grounds for divorce. Again, I think it should be carefully and prayerfully considered; never a rash decision based on emotions alone. 

Unfortunately, sometimes prayerful consideration does not become part of it. 

Children are not as resilient as people like to think. They carry significant damage with them throughout life. Thinking they are resilient or will adjust in healthful way is wishful thinking and a way of assuaging personal guilt.

Going back to part of why I even ask these questions is that a situation has arisen with a nasty separation where several children are involved. We have been able to rescue the children from the situation and are becoming very concerned regarding how much damage to these children has occurred in a variety of spheres. We do not believe that we have yet reached the end of what these children have been through. Unfortunately, every adult individual in this case was raised SDA or claims to be SDA. 

I, personally, have been challenged on whose side I am on. I wish no part of whose side is right. I am only concerned for the futures of the children. Not often spoken of are the rights of children and their right to grow up with two behaving parents. Unfortunately, personal selfishness is the basis of many divorces and children just have to suck it up and deal with it. I feel confident that the state has even considered charges in the situation and court situations continue. Sister Ellen did make a statement that "to do nothing in the face of evil is evil itself."

The looking at someone lustfully (including porn) as a valid reason for divorce is somewhat problematic. I tend to believe that nearly every human has looked at someone else in an immoral way and as such nearly everyone would then have a valid reason to divorce!

14 hours ago, GHansen said:

Many Christian churches recognize the "Pauline privilege." That is the right to remarry in the case of abandonment.

On 11/3/2021 at 9:38 AM, bonnie said:

It has been quite sometime since "adultery only" has been the only reason that is church accepted for a divorce. 

What churches may do is not necessarily right. There are a variety of places where the churches have gone completely against Scripture.

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12 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

There are a variety of places where the churches have gone completely against Scripture.

Variety of places where people have gone completely against God as well.

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2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

 

What churches may do is not necessarily right. There are a variety of places where the churches have gone completely against Scripture.

Very true. But there does not seem to be the same resistance to divorce as the denomination once had. I am not referring to the extremes as a spouse being violent . I can think of more than one  where spouse just decided the person she married wasn't "making her happy". I am sure there are men that use the same reason but the one's I know happened to be women

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On 11/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, bonnie said:

Very true. But there does not seem to be the same resistance to divorce as the denomination once had. I am not referring to the extremes as a spouse being violent . I can think of more than one  where spouse just decided the person she married wasn't "making her happy". I am sure there are men that use the same reason but the one's I know happened to be women

Unfortunately, nearly eighty percent of divorces are filed by women and often the reason is they are just not happy, or their husband is often at work, etc. Never mind he is out trying to earn the money to pay for all the material things she wants! 

Unfortunate also are that the "feminists" within the church keep running their domestic violence narratives trying to paint men as abusers. Last year, John Bradshaw, of It is Written, at the start of his evangelistic series during the beginning of the Covid lockdowns, had a televised interview with some guy who ran domestic violence shelters. The feminists narrative was that women were going to be subject to domestic violence by being lockdown with their abusive husbands. And Bradshaw fell into their trap.

The reality is that most domestic violence is started by women in the home. In all likelihood, men were more at risk than women. The problem is that the only shelters for men who are victims of domestic violence is often under a bridge someplace.

http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm

http://newscastmedia.com/harvard_study.htm

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On 11/4/2021 at 10:57 AM, B/W Photodude said:

There are a variety of places where the churches have gone completely against Scripture.

On 11/4/2021 at 11:10 AM, GHansen said:

Variety of places where people have gone completely against God as well.

"against God" or "against Scripture". Same thing.

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55 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

"against God" or "against Scripture". Same thing.

Probably not. Scripture must be "interpreted" or understood correctly. It is often misunderstood, consequently people believe they are in harmony with Scripture but actually are going contrary to God. The Jews often thought they were following Scripture but what they were doing was absolutely contrary to the will of God. The actions of the priest and Levite toward the wounded man, as well as the story of the Pharisee and publican illustrate this.

The subjective element normally impacts our perception of God's will. Pedophile priests et al., for example, apparently believe it is ok to abuse children but not ok to have a relationship with a mature woman.

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19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Unfortunately, nearly eighty percent of divorces are filed by women and often the reason is they are just not happy, or their husband is often at work, etc. Never mind he is out trying to earn the money to pay for all the material things she wants! 

I have no idea what the statistics are but I would believe men are as guilty as women. As divorce became more and more acceptable I wouldn't doubt women did opt for divorce when years ago they would have stuck in a bad/abusive/ violent  marriage.

It goes without saying  there are self centered women but there are also self centered men. It cannot be laid at the feet of one gender. I do have to say tho the majority of those getting a divorce I know the last decade the women definitely left something to be desired

19 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

, had a televised interview with some guy who ran domestic violence shelters. The feminists narrative was that women were going to be subject to domestic violence by being lockdown with their abusive husbands. And Bradshaw fell into their trap.

The reality is that most domestic violence is started by women in the home. In all likelihood, men were more at risk than women. The problem is that the only shelters for men who are victims of domestic violence is often under a bridge someplace.

http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm

http://newscastmedia.com/harvard_study.htm

I would think that you would see more domestic violence, both genders in a situation like the covid lockdown.  Loss of jobs, unable to 8-10 hours away from one another would be a recipe for a lot of domestic stress, especially if that were true before.

Women can be manipulative, conniving, dishonest, unfaithful, and violent. Women are not the helpless saints they are made out to be, but men can claim all those traits as well.

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6 hours ago, bonnie said:

Women can be manipulative, conniving, dishonest, unfaithful, and violent. Women are not the helpless saints they are made out to be, but men can claim all those traits as well.

Gender rolls have become complicated in modern Western society. The Bible has some things to say on the topic. While the circumstances may not be exact, there are instructive  principles. Sexual violence against women, for example. The Bible says that women who are subjects of sexual violence must resist, at least vocally. If they do not, they become parties to the act (Deuteronomy  22:25-29). Crimes of that sort against women were comparable to murder, a capital crime in those days. 2 Samuel 13:32 indicates that Amnon was a dead man from the time he forced his sister

The book of Proverbs includes several verses that address issues raised in this thread. On the subject of divorce or separation notice Pr 21:19 " [It is] better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman."

The roll women play in immorality is described in Proverbs in numerous places. Other Bible stories plainly lay the blame on men e.g., Judah and Tamar, David and Bathsheba, Amnon and Tamar.

 

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On 11/5/2021 at 10:28 PM, B/W Photodude said:

"against God" or "against Scripture". Same thing.

On 11/5/2021 at 11:38 PM, GHansen said:

Probably not. Scripture must be "interpreted" or understood correctly. It is often misunderstood, consequently people believe they are in harmony with Scripture but actually are going contrary to God.

Unfortunately I find that calls to "intepret" or "understand correctly" are ways to get around Scripture. As often said, Scripture interprets itself.

The following is from a devotional reading that explains how we can only know God thru Scripture. Any beliefs regarding God will agree with Scripture or it is not correct. He reveals Himself to us thru Scriptures first and foremost.

God’s Word and His works contain the knowledge of Himself that He has seen fit to reveal to us. We may understand the revelation that He has thus given of Himself. But it is with fear and trembling and with a sense of our own sinfulness that we are to take up this study, not with a desire to try to explain God, but with a desire to gain that knowledge which will enable us to serve Him more acceptably. Let no one venture to explain God. Human beings cannot explain themselves, and how, then, dare they venture to explain the Omniscient One?...

To the curious I bear the message that God has instructed me not to frame answers to the questions of those who enquire in regard to the things that have not been revealed. The things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children. Beyond this, human beings are not to attempt to go. We are not to attempt to explain that which God has not revealed. We are to study the revelation that Christ, the Great Teacher, has given of the character of God, that in spirit and word and act we may represent Him to those who know Him not.

In regard to the personality and prerogatives of God, where He is and what He is, this is a subject which we are not to dare to touch. On this theme silence is eloquence. It is those who have no experimental knowledge of God who venture to speculate in regard to Him. Did they know more of Him, they would have less to say about what He is. The one who in the daily life holds closest communion with God, and who has the deepest knowledge of Him, realizes most keenly the utter inability of human beings to explain the Creator....

God always has been. He is the great I AM.... He is infinite and omnipresent. No words of ours can describe His greatness and majesty.

The Bible teaching of God is the only teaching that is safe for human beings to follow. We are to regulate our faith by a plain “Thus saith the Lord.” The knowledge of Himself that God desires us to gain from His Word, will, if brought into the daily life, make men and women strong to resist evil, and fit them to represent Him.

We need to study the simplicity of Christ’s teachings. He urges the need of prayer and humility. These are our safeguards against the erroneous reasoning by which Satan seeks to lead us to turn aside to other gods, and to accept misleading theories, clothed by him in garments of light.—Manuscript 132, November 8, 1903, “God’s Chosen People,” written during the pantheism crisis.

AS Leslie Hardinge wrote, "The only way to learn the Lord's techniques and purposes is to read the Bible." With Jesus in His Sanctuary, p527

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On 11/10/2021 at 10:48 PM, B/W Photodude said:

We need to study the simplicity of Christ’s teachings. He urges the need of prayer and humility.

I especially agree with this. 

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