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A Young Earth & an Old Universe in Adventism


Humble Disciple
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From the beginning of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, in the mid-1800s it has maintained that the book of Genesis gives a true description of a literal six-day creation and a global catastrophic flood, all occurring within the last few thousand years. Although the denomination does not specify an official view of the age of the universe, it is comfortable with an old universe with a satanic rebellion long before the recent creation of life on earth.
https://encyclopedia.adventist.org/article?id=FFQG

I've always wondered how the universe could be less than 10,000 years old when there's light from stars and supernova remnants traveling to our planet from so many light-years away. Also, the Big Bang doesn't disprove God, but only shows that there must be an uncaused First Cause to the universe. 

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I agree.

Science has no answer to anything prior to the so-called Big BAng.

SDAs differ as to what the Bible says about the age of this Earth and its status at the point of organization.

In my understanding the Bible says nothing about the age of the universe.  It only says that God created all and all that God created was good.

 

 

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According to Ellen White, she witnessed the creation week in a vision and it was six literal days. I am guessing it had something to do with honoring the Sabbath on the seventh day.

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21 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

It only says that God created all and all that God created was good.

When you say "all" here you do mean this earth?

[My use of the word "all" was intended to mean that everything that exists was created by God and everything that exists when created by God was created good at the time of its creation--Gregory Matthews.]

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There is the creation of the universe, the creation of the great controversy, including some sort of role of something that the Bible refers to without detail, in phrases such as the words transferred "without form and void" and water and other verses, and Mrs. White seems to allude to, that played a role for God working long with Lucifer and the angels and other worlds as they dealt with the issues of the great controversy, where God worked with only evidence and not compelling forceful proof, but decisions were to be made by faith. Two events seems to have happened simultaneously: What ever was here became total chaos, and the two sides of the great controversy formed. 

Once the two sides formed, even without closing their probations, the Spirt of God hovered over the chaos and then there were the special 6 days, where God added to the evidence a little bit of proof, and a time where the command "Let there be light" was not only the literal light of the first day, but also an announcement that they were entering a new phase of light about God.

While not all the above info above is here, In his commentary on Genesis, the Seventh-day Adventist International Commentary by Dr. Doukhan points out that Genesis 1 (and I think 2) has at least 3 different layers of events, the creation of the universe, the creation of the great controversy, and the creation of the earth. 

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Moderator's Note:

In June of 2018, Stan established a special place for people to post comments on the Trinity and requested that they not be placed elsewhere.  I have not enforced that rule.  I have allowed one of our members considerable freedom to post on the Trinity in this thread and elsewhere.

I am now going to enforce that rule.

I have removed from view a recent post on the Trinity that was placed in this thread.  If our member wishes to do so, that post may be made in the thread that Stan established in 2018 for posts on the Trinity.

Please discontinue placing posts on the Trinity outside of that thread.  If posts in violation of that rule continue to be made outside of that thread, they will be removed.

NOTE:  Stan's request included a rule that posts on the Trinity be civil. In the future, I will consider that.

 

 

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On 12/12/2021 at 5:28 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Moderator's Note:

In June of 2018, Stan established a special place for people to post comments on the Trinity and requested that they not be placed elsewhere.  I have not enforced that rule.  I have allowed one of our members considerable freedom to post on the Trinity in this thread and elsewhere.

I am now going to enforce that rule.

I have removed from view a recent post on the Trinity that was placed in this thread.  If our member wishes to do so, that post may be made in the thread that Stan established in 2018 for posts on the Trinity.

Please discontinue placing posts on the Trinity outside of that thread.  If posts in violation of that rule continue to be made outside of that thread, they will be removed.

NOTE:  Stan's request included a rule that posts on the Trinity be civil. In the future, I will consider that.

 

 

When another Moderator Commented and states thing concerning the trinity, then it should be allowed. If you felt this it would be kind that you move it but to delete it appears to be bias! If we are to be kind to one another, I feel the moderators should lead by example!

Blessings!

 

[Stinsonmarri:

* Yes. in dealing with you I have been biased.  I have given you more than I have given some other people.  My bias has been to treat you better with more consideration.

*  Contrary to what you implied, I did not delete your post.  As I stated, I removed it from view.  I did consider deleting it.  But, I did not do so because I had removed from view other posts. So I decided on that point to treat your exactly as I have treated other some posts.

*  If Stan decides to make you a Moderator, you will have the ability to perform your duties in the manner that you believe should be done.

 

Gregory Matthews]

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We do not know how old the earth is because time was not measure until after sin. We do not know how long the Adams stayed in the Garden. YAHSHUA made the worlds, HE SPOKE it and THE HOLY SPIRT BROUGHT things into existence! That is was moved mean: set in motion. Flesh beings also want to tried and figure out what are the secrets that YAHWEH has not reveal. Theories on the various different type of suns and there color. This does not mean anything dies in the Universe but those who have sinned and destroyed the earth they were to subdue. Hebrew 1:1-3 shows clearly who made the worlds. Let's leave it that and stop listening to those who do not believe in facts but rather believe in a bang for creation!

Hope this is approve!

Blessings!

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Sstinsonmari said in the quote below;

Please read Genesis 1t speaks of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd day of creation week. A day is a unit of measurement, which was defined in Genesis 1, as being an evening and a morning.  Sin had not occurred at that time.  So, time was measured prior to the entry of sin, according to the Bible.    

 

[. . . time was not measure until after sin. ]

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That time was universal. If you read in Gen. 2:1; the heavens and the earth was finish and YAHWEH completed them all in weekly 7 day period of HIS TIME! This time was everlasting. It was based on the lunar/solar calendar. The evening morning was the first day etc. Isa 66:23 proves that all of the universe from one moon to another and one Sabbath to another, all will return to worship THE FATHER. Back on HIS Original Time. When sin came in to this earth, time here became limited. So, again we do not know how long the Adams were on this earth before they sin! As, I stated time was not measured; didn't have to it was everlasting. Now, we are on probation time. This is limited and we do died until those who will be alive when YAHSHUA arrives!

Blessings!

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21 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

[Stinsonmarri:

* Yes. in dealing with you I have been biased.  I have given you more than I have given some other people.  My bias has been to treat you better with more consideration.

*  Contrary to what you implied, I did not delete your post.  As I stated, I removed it from view.  I did consider deleting it.  But, I did not do so because I had removed from view other posts. So I decided on that point to treat your exactly as I have treated other some posts.

*  If Stan decides to make you a Moderator, you will have the ability to perform your duties in the manner that you believe should be done.

 

Gregory Matthews]

Pastor Matthews: Bias means the following: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person. You are correct as I stated but you do not understand you have not treated me better. You have treated me worst. I never asked you for more time, I ask you for respect when I comment.

I am glad you did not delete it and thank you. Would you mind sending it to my email? I took a lot of time working on it. I should have kept it for now on I will.

Who said anything about being a Moderator? I never said that at all. I said: "When another Moderator Commented and states things concerning the trinity, then it should be allowed. I felt the other Moderator open the door and you also but it  will be misunderstood, so I will not make it a problem again. I do not have the time nor do I want to be a Moderator. I work and I love my job. 

Blessings Pastor Matthews

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Stinsonmarri:

*  On bias:  I have allowed you to post material that I would not have allowed others to post.  Yes, once you posted, I than allowed them to respond to you.  You do not know how I have treated others.

*  I have e-mailed you a copy of the post that I removed from view.

*  The highest respect that one can have for another is to spend time and effort in challenging them.  Lack of respect is shown by ignoring an idea from the standpoint that it is not worthy of a response.

 

  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Stinsonmarri:

*  On bias:  I have allowed you to post material that I would not have allowed others to post.  Yes, once you posted, I than allowed them to respond to you.  You do not know how I have treated others.

*  I have e-mailed you a copy of the post that I removed from view.

*  The highest respect that one can have for another is to spend time and effort in challenging them.  Lack of respect is shown by ignoring an idea from the standpoint that it is not worthy of a response.

Pastor: If you have done that, I have not ask you to. I do not believe in favoritism at all. We should all be treated equal. I know you have allow others to speak things against me and you did nothing. However, when I commented back you quickly stop the thread. You always see to make certain suggestion of what I have done and you claim you say things that could not be allow to say. Why did you do that? Again, you have made that I said things wrong and I have asked you and also another person. What is that I suppose to have done, Pastor, that you feel this way. If I have done something wrong please tell me. I have apologize before and will again. I have again giving the Bible version I use, I stopped when you asked me; when I replace God with ELOHIYM etc. So, please let me know what's in your heart that you feel I have done wrong?

Before I return on the forum I saw that you had email me. I reply and thank you from the bottom of my heart. 

Challenging them is not when you accused them of being judgmental. When they stood up against prejudice and bigotry. Those who cannot stand the truth that YAHWEH came to the Canaanites first. Putting down Black Organization who did not use violence or stole anything. Because I spoke against the previous person in the Whitehouse. I spoke against his character, they wanted to deal with politic. 

Challenge me on facts of Scripture as you did here about time before sin and after is great! That is what we should do and all others to see and make their view known as well. That's what the forum is for.

Finally, I have ask you to explain what you did that was wrong and you should apologize. When you put out a prejudice website, stating because I have said that the Phoenicians did not speak or write a Semitic language. I stated and provided facts also. Another person was upset as well and voiced it. You ignore us both!

With kind regards and blessings, Pastor!

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20 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

Challenging them is not when you accused them of being judgmental. When they stood up against prejudice and bigotry. Those who cannot stand the truth that YAHWEH came to the Canaanites first.

Has it ever occurred to you that to expect respect shown to your beliefs, you need to offer that same curtesy to those that disagree with you.

It is obvious how important skin color is to you but why do you simplybrush off with the insulting dismissing of the opinion of others.  Most people simply do not care about your claim that God came to the Canaanites first. Whether He came first or last hasn't anything to do with salvation. The hard to understand fact that God is the same God for all. I do not believe He is impressed with your skin color

Those who cannot stand the truth that YAHWEH came to the Canaanites first.

This is just a ridiculous statement. Not fact, simply your opinion stated to sound as if fact

Putting down Black Organization who did not use violence or stole anything. Because I spoke against the previous person in the Whitehouse. I spoke against his character, they wanted to deal with politic. 

Putting down a group of thugs doesnt have anything to do with Trump. I live less than 30 minutes where these thugs looted, rioted and sadly cost some their lives. YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. I have neighbors that were terrified they were going to lose their children to their recruitment. They were BLM right to the core, spouting the same garbage and declaring if they had to use violence to get their point across so be it. It was a righteous act. They were in the thick of things and how much damage they personally did I don't know. The most dedicated of these delusional young people has since regretted anything to do with them. As more and more came out concerning Floyd and the excuse for destruction the less enamored they were with the THUGS. You will continue your cult like worship of them

You are not influential enough or your opinion not important enough to have the influence you claim because of speaking out.

Personally your outdated whine about Trump has little bearing on anything

Like many that voted for Trump if not most I know, wish he would sit down be quiet and go away. What would really be ideal is to have a place Obama, Clintons, and Trump so  they are never heard from again.

I do hope that we get someone  that will support the police, get the border back to pre Biden disaster,and the score of other issues we are facing now.

 

 

 

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Moderator request:

Stinsonmarri is taking an absence form posting in this forum.  Therefore, out of respect to her absence, let us refrain from  making specific comments to posts that she has made.  Generalized comments are always welcome.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/9/2021 at 8:02 PM, Humble Disciple said:

I've always wondered how the universe could be less than 10,000 years old when there's light from stars and supernova remnants traveling to our planet from so many light-years away. Also, the Big Bang doesn't disprove God, but only shows that there must be an uncaused First Cause to the universe. 

As GM says, God created everything ex nihilo. 

The universe is older than 10,000 years LOL! 

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