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Christmas?


Gregory Matthews
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I loved the evidence presented. Now there is just one other piece of evidence that this article places us close to. Jesus' Passover visit was his bar mitzvah, which indicates a birth during the time after the fall festivals and thus be celebrated on the visit to Jerusalem for Passover. If he was born before when the fall festivals then it should have been a fall festival visit where he'd have his bar mitzvah, and they loose Jesus as he went about his father's work at the temple.  

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21 hours ago, Kevin H said:

I loved the evidence presented. Now there is just one other piece of evidence that this article places us close to. Jesus' Passover visit was his bar mitzvah, which indicates a birth during the time after the fall festivals and thus be celebrated on the visit to Jerusalem for Passover. If he was born before when the fall festivals then it should have been a fall festival visit where he'd have his bar mitzvah, and they loose Jesus as he went about his father's work at the temple.  

This I am sorry Kevin is incorrect. YAHSHUA was not born on a pagan day! HE was born not during the passover which was the supper and explain in Ex Chapter 12 as following:

And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is Yahweh's passover. Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. Exo 12:11, 21 WOY

Now the *feast of Unleavened Bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. Luke 22:1  WOY

Heortē: Of uncertain affinity; a festival: - feast, **holyday. Strong Greek Dictionary and Thayer's

Uncertain affinity is clear because the pagan word feast should be use and there were in the week of Unleavened Bread two Holy Convocation that YAHWEH said these were HIS HOLY DAYS nor the Hebrews or any ones. Lev 23:1, 2. Feast comes from the Romans and Moses nor IsraEL kept that word. They kept the Holy Convocations!

YAHSHUA was born during the week of Unleavened Bread which is exactly what Luke said:

 And when they had performed all things according to the Law of YAHWEH, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.  Now HIS parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when HE was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. Luke 2:39, 41

Now, the article showed the truth how those who claim to know HIM, will still follow the world. Why? They prefer the doctrines of men over YAHWEH. The Law, Adventist love to harp on is the Sabbath, but what about not bearing false witness. YAHSHUA was not born on Dec. 25 and it is a lie. The Bible said these words:

 And for this cause *ELOHIYM shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:11

*ELOHIYM: 'ĕlôhı̂ym H430, the H is what I go by. So there is no misunderstanding I am writing it correctly.

The Bible not me said no liars will enter the Kingdom, so this is a message of love and warning. Whom do you serve?

Blessings on YAHWEH'S Truth!

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While not related to figuring out the actual birth date, Jesus did a sermon for this special season, as if he realized how important this season would be when it comes to family. Sadly we miss this because part of the story is in one chapter and the rest in the next chapter. The I AM statements of Jesus and their signs [miracles] are all related to a temple feast. We have 3 for Passover, 3 for the Feast of Tabernacles, and one for the only Temple holiday to become a Biblical holiday because of Jesus and the New Testament. Please read as one reading John 10: 22 - 11:54. As characteristic Jesus gives a special message to those who's family has an empty seat this season.

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On 12/13/2021 at 7:08 PM, Kevin H said:

While not related to figuring out the actual birth date, Jesus did a sermon for this special season, as if he realized how important this season would be when it comes to family. Sadly we miss this because part of the story is in one chapter and the rest in the next chapter. The I AM statements of Jesus and their signs [miracles] are all related to a temple feast. We have 3 for Passover, 3 for the Feast of Tabernacles, and one for the only Temple holiday to become a Biblical holiday because of Jesus and the New Testament. Please read as one reading John 10: 22 - 11:54. As characteristic Jesus gives a special message to those who's family has an empty seat this season.

You are correct Kevin, and I did not give you a birthdate, I gave you the week. This was the Holy Convocation of Unleavened Bread. The passover was the supper and YAHSHUA replace it with HIS New Supper.

Christ was standing at the point of transition between two economies and their two great festivals. He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death.  DA p. 652

Let's deal with John 10:22 first. The Bible said to study and EGW had a vision and she said:

I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible, yet learned men, when the copies were few, had changed the words in some instances, thinking that they were making it more plain, when they were mystifying that which was plain, in causing it to lean to their established views, governed by tradition. But I saw that the word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion of scripture explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err for not only is the Word of God plain and simple in declaring the way to life, but THE HOLY SPIRIT is given to guide in understanding the way of life revealed in HIS Word. EW 220, 221; 1SG 116, 117

cheimōn (Greek): From a derivation of χέω cheō (to pour; akin to the base of G5490 through the idea of a channel), meaning a storm (as pouring rain); by implication the rainy season, that is, winter: - tempest, foul weather, winter. Strong Greek Dictionary This not completely correct

Finally comes the latter rain, which ordinarily falls in Spring, March and April, and it is this rain that is of so much value in maturing and ripening the barley and the wheat crops for harvesting.  Without the latter rain the harvest will not be plentiful, the grains would not be well matured and ready for healthy consumption.  The prophecy of Joel mentions all three of these kinds of rain: “And he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month” (Joel 2:23). REVELATIONBYGRACEMINISTRIES

The Bible also speaks of the latter rain, which ordinarily falls in March and April, and it is this rain that is of so much value in maturing the barley and the wheat crops. {The heavy winds} come the latter part of December and during January and February. The prophecy of Joel mentions all three of these kinds of rain: "And he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month" (Joel 2:23). The word rain here means heavy, gushing rain that falls in winter months, and the rainy season starts with the former rain in the fall, and ends with the latter rain in the spring. Bible History

I also lived in Israel and the latter rain or heavy rain is not in the winter. Matter of fact Israel do not have a really cold season like we do here. I lived at a Kibbutz in the higher mountain range then Jerusalem. We have light thin sheet of snow that melted about 9 in the morning. In Jerusalem it would be 70 F%. It get cool at night wearing a sweater but never cold.

Now, the proof of what time of year it was is exactly the next Scripture, John 11:55 and notice he said the Jews passover and not YAHWEH'S!  Why because they made the supper a day and it was not. It was to be taken at night to begin the week of Unleavened Bread. (I am using WOY version for all of these Scriptures and out of Reverence I Capitalize THE NAMES of THE ALMIGHTY ONE which includes all of the pronouns!)

And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.   And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to YAHWEH throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the day before ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from IsraEL. And in the first day there shall be an Holy Convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an Holy Convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. And ye shall observe the feast of Unleavened Bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.  Exo 12:13-17

 These are the feasts of YAHWEH, even Holy Convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month between the evenings is YAHWEH'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of Unleavened Bread unto YAHWEH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. Lev 23:4

Now before the feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to YAHSHUA, saying unto HIM, Where wilt THOU that we prepare for THEE to eat the passover? Now when the even was come, HE sat down with the twelve. Mat 26:17, 20

The Pharisees started plotting to kill  YAHSUA in early March which starts the latter rain. Let me say this to close, where in the Bible does it say to remember HIS Birth? The Bible said to remember HIS death and resurrection. Not with eggs, rabbits or dress ware but by HIS Saving GRACE! The Bible states make not the ways of the heathens and we want to be like the world and that path is broad. This broad path will lead to death but again it is your choice. The narrow path says to take the Bible and Christmas is not in there nor the day of HIS birth. The time and week is given but not the day. HE spoke what was important. The papacy change the time to December from January because of Saturnalia and Mithras were worship on this day. This is worshiping the stars as YAHWEH warned. IsraEL worship the days of Baal and Tammuz. Adventist worship the day of Saturnalia and Mithras! Same thing, same worship, same blindness choosing the traditions of men over YAHWEH!

I pray that all will study and with prayer follow not me but YAHWEH'S WORD!

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Pastor Matthews: I see you remove my comment. Is this a new game your are playing now! I have commented on the article which have the right to do! 

So you telling me: “If you can’t be comfortable here, perhaps this isn’t the place for you this Christmas?”  Which is stated in the article?

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The author of the article, as far as I know, has never heard your name mentioned.

 

When I placed a reference to the article, I did so due to the fact that it was about Christmas celebrations.  

Your response which was a personal attack on me as well as an attack on SDA clergy has been removed from view.  So, your response exceeded the norms of this forum and action has been taken.

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Moderator request:

 

Stinsonmarri is taking an absence from posting in this forum. Therefore, out of respect to her absence, let us refrain from making specific comments to posts that she has made. Generalized comments are always welcome.

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Here's a Jewish perspective from Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

Is Christmas a Pagan Holiday?

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

Let us begin with a bit of a dark picture. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures are we told about a celebration commemorating the birth of Christ Jesus. Nothing in the Scriptures gives us any sure evidence about the date of this magnificent event.

The lack of Scriptural specificity about the facts surrounding the birth of the Judean King stands in sharp contrast to the details available about his death (each of the four Gospels provide the exact timing of Jesus’ death).

In the late second century, the Greek Church Father Origen mocked yearly celebrations of Roman birth anniversaries, discounting them as deeply pagan practices. This suggests that Christian communities did not yet celebrate Christmas during Origen’s lifetime (c.165-264). The first church figure to discuss the date of Jesus’ birth was Clement (c. 200), an Egyptian preacher from Alexandria.  However, December 25 was not even mentioned. By the middle of the fourth century, however, we find that Western churches were already celebrating the Birth of Christ on December 25, while the Eastern Churches did so on Jan. 7th.

How did the early Christians arrive at this dating?

Surprisingly, the early church followed a very Jewish idea – that the beginning and the end of important redemptive events often happen on the same date (Babylonian Talmud, Rosh Hashana 10b-11a). In the beginning of the third century, Tertullian reported that since he knew precisely when Jesus died (14th of Nissan or March 25), he also knew exactly when he was conceived! He was most-likely wrong in his conclusions, but at least we can now see how they arrived to date of Christmas.

The logic went as follows: If Jesus was conceived on March 25 then counting forward to the 9 months of Mary’s pregnancy would place His birth on December 25. This is especially intriguing because January 1st used to be celebrated as the Day of Christ’s circumcision (8 days from the evening of Dec. 24).

It is very important to note that it was not until the 4th-6th centuries of the Common Era that Christians began to “Christianize” the local pagan celebrations of the peoples they sought to evangelize. There is no doubt that it was at this time, but not before, that Christmas began to acquire some of its pagan traditions. Why? Because until c.300-320 CE, Christians were fighting a counter-cultural war with the pagans of the Roman and Persian world. Consequently, they were not in the mood for cultural adaptations just yet.

Since December 25 as the supposed date of Christ’s birth was circulated 100-150 years before the practice of “Christianizing” pagan celebrations commenced, it is unreasonable to conclude that this date was adopted to please the Roman pagans as popular conspiracy theory suggests.

It is true that in 274 CE a Roman Emperor declared December 25 to be, “The Day of the Unconquered Sun,” (Sol Invictus). However, that was some 70 years after Christians had settled on December 25 as their Christmas date. (Moreover, the decree itself may have been issued to help stamp out the newly established Christian celebration). Before answering our main question, I think we should answer few related ones:

Is Christmas a Biblical Holiday?

No. It was not commanded by God in the Bible.

Does the celebration of Christmas contain elements that are pagan in origin?

Absolutely. There is no doubt about that whatsoever.

Is December 25 the correct date for celebration of the Birth?

Possible, but highly unlikely.

And finally, is Christmas a Pagan Holiday?

There is nothing pagan about speculating that December 25 is the birthday of Jesus.

Inaccurate?

Probably.

Pagan?

No (CLIK HERE FOR MORE)

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