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Sabbath School Class April 23, 2022


Gregory Matthews
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Tomorrow, April 23, 2022, those who study the Sabbath School Quarterly, will consider what the Bible teaches about a Flood of Noah.   The following articles and books speak to common issues associated with the Biblical record of creationism and the flood.  I believe that these will be helpful for further study of the issues.  It should be noted that I while I do agree with some of the material that I cite in this message, I do not agree with some of it.  My listing should not be considered to be agreement.

Carol Hill is a geologist who teaches at the University of New Mexico.  She has devoted more than 40 years of her life to defending the Biblical teachings, as she understands them of the Flood of Noah, whom she believes was a real person with a real boat, and the story of Eden, Adam and Eve, whom she believes were real persons.    She does take some positions that are outside of the standard SDA understanding and of which I do not agree.  But, I consider her to be of much value.  The following URL takes you to a published review that I wrote about one of her books.      

https://atoday.org/a-worldview-approach-to-science-and-scripture/?msclkid=de49ebcec22a11eca29839554b9237713

I consider the following two books to be valuable editions to my library:

Carol Hill, editor. The Grand Canyon, Monument To An Ancient Earth: Can Noah’s Flood Explain the Grand Canyon? Kregel Publications, 2016.  240 pages.

Carol Hill.  A Worldview Approach to Science and Scripture.  Kregel academic Publications. 2019.  230 pages

The following two books focus on attempting to understand how the person living in the time that Genesis was written would understand what the Genesis author actually wrote.    I consider this to be an important issue to understand regardless of how one interprets it.  As they have written this book a review of them may be summed up by one word:  explanacepts.

Brian Bull & Fritz Guy.  God, Sky & Land, Genesis 1 As the ancient Hebrews Heard It.  Adventist Forum, 2011, 190 pages.

Brian Bull & Fritz Guy.  God, Land, And The Great Flood:  Hearing the Story With 21st Century Christian Ears. Adventist Forum,  2017. 211 pages.

The following book contains articles written by some eleven (11) Adventist authors

Understanding Genesis:  Contemporary Adventist Perspectives. Adventist Today, 2006, 195 pages.

The following book contains material written by five (5) different persons.

Lynden J. Rogers, The Biblical Flood:  The Context and History of Seventh-day Adventist Understanding, 2nd edition. Avondale Press, 2020, 238 pages.

The following book is more traditional in it approach than some of the above:  However, I have a personal problem with any suggestion that Intelligent Design is the answer.

Leonard Brand, Faith, Reason, & Earth History, 2nd Edition:  A Paradigm of Earth & Biological Origins by Intelligent Design. Andrews University Press, 2009. 508 pages.

In addition to the above books, the following articles may be of value:

https://spectrummagazine.org/sabbath-school/2022/geologist-investigates-noahs-flood

https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2022/reexamining-our-claims-literal-historicity-genesis-1-11

The above are books that I have in my library and are relatively current and available for purchase.  I probably do not agree totally with anything that I have listed.  But, I consider them to be of value.  Therefore, I recommend them for further study.

 

 

 

 

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That was a most interesting post Gregory! I watched David Montogomery's presentation that was linked in the spectrum article and found it interesting - two quotes from Galileo incorporates into his presentation should be known by all. 

 

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use..."

&

"If anyone shall set the authority of Holy Writ against clear and manifest reason, he who does this knows not what he has undertaken: for he opposes to the truth not the meaning of the Bible, which is beyond his comprehension , but rather his own interpretation; not what is in the Bible, but what he has found in himself and imagines to be there.

 

 

 

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Gustave:   Often the truth that we claim to come from the Bible is actually of our own imagination and not what the Bible teaches.  It is on this point that I believe the books by Bull & Guy are so important.

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Anthropology 101 reached every society has a story of a world wide flood.  That is affirning. What bothers ne a bit is this.   They can usually point out to the high point their ancestors   were saved on.  

 

In the first nations in British Columbia several tribes can point out which mountain   Each tribe as a different one.

 

Thoughts?

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I think the reason pretty much every region / culture on the globe has a great flood story / myth is simply because every region, at some point in their history, experienced a great flood - a flood that was "local" to them and well past your average flood. I don't believe Noah's flood was experienced by anyone living in the America's  - these events took place at difference times.

To the ancient mind the world was flat and therefore if there was water as far as the eye could see "THE WORLD" was covered by water. It's the same thing going with the locusts of Egypt - to the Israelites and Egyptians the grasshoppers covered the whole earth but I'm reasonably sure people in China were not affected. 

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There is some reason to believe that the Hebrew word translated as "earth" in those early Genesis chapters should have been translated as "land."

 

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On 4/23/2022 at 6:47 PM, Gustave said:

I think the reason pretty much every region / culture on the globe has a great flood story / myth is simply because every region, at some point in their history, experienced a great flood - a flood that was "local" to them and well past your average flood. I don't believe Noah's flood was experienced by anyone living in the America's  - these events took place at difference times.

This thought was looked at in the sabbath school lesson on the flood. After the flood occurred, a rainbow was put in the sky along with the covenant of God to never destroy the earth by flood again. So, if the flood was only a local event, and God never was going to send a flood again and the rainbow precluded even local floods, then every time there is a local flood, God is a liar.

The problem here is that the earth was a very different place before the flood and the watering of the vegetation occurred without rain. And I believe the words "fountains of the deep" were used to describe the destruction of the flood. Given that it the Bible version is a worldwide flood that covered all the land, it does give you pause to think when you wonder whether the waters covered Mt Everest nearly six miles high. To me it suggests serious rearrangements of the earth architecture in the creation of mountain chains and deep oceans to accommodate the runoff from the land after the flood was over. So much we can only guess at.

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A big problem in trying to understand the flood is the 6,000 year old world belief in which believers are looking for Noah's flood to have been 4,000 years ago and limiting their study to 4,000 years ago. 

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On 4/23/2022 at 1:51 PM, Stan said:

Anthropology 101 reached every society has a story of a world wide flood.  That is affirning. What bothers ne a bit is this.   They can usually point out to the high point their ancestors   were saved on.  

 

In the first nations in British Columbia several tribes can point out which mountain   Each tribe as a different one.

 

Thoughts?

Also, when Christianity spread different countries wanted part of the Bible to have occurred in their land. But since we know where most of the Bible took place, there was little they could choose for their land. One popular idea was that they had Mt. Ararat. So there were many Mt. Ararat's around. The one in Turkey was one of these named after the spread of Christianity. It became THE Mt. Ararat as the crusaders came into contact with it on their travels to and from the Holy Land. 

The Bible said that the  people traveled west from Ararat to Babylon, and the Mt. Ararat in Turkey is north of Babylon. 

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