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Whats all the fuss about?


lazarus

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...The weekly Sabbath is referred to as a "day of sacred assembly," I believe the wording goes. Also of interest is what God did to the Sabbath day--'sanctified' it. But that is a topic for another thread, perhaps.

The very fact that God "sanctified" the seventh day signifies that it was appointed as a day of religious worship. The concept scarcely makes any sense if it means individuals are to stay alone.

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The only "church" that Jesus attended was the Jewish church. Is that our example?

Jesus is a perfect example, yes. From the Biblical standpoint the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church are virtually the same. The first century Christians worshipped with the Jews at the synagogue, as we find Paul and others doing in the book of Acts. In the NT, the church, or ecclesia, is not a building but the people-- the called out ones-- who met at the synagogue for Sabbath worship (Acts 13).

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An accurate answer would require a fair amount of research. Since I don't see the question as being on point to the issue of the meaning of 'chepets' in ch. 58:13, I don't feel overly motivated to devote the time which would be called for. Perhaps it would be an interesting topic for a different thread.

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Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

David, some of us feel just like Billy after you have finished dissecting this passage.

Tom

You said, earlier on this thread, that the KJV was wrong, that in essence, the Adventist church has been wrong over the decades, mistranslating and misapplying the verse. That position statement called for careful consideration and evaluation.

Still missing the point...

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But you just said that you had already done that... and taking what appears to have been a great deal of time...

And as has been repeatedly pointed out the meaning of Hebrew words in general and chepets specifically is very much dependent upon context. Understanding where the passage begins and ends, its overall theme, how the same words are used in that passage are vital parts of the forest called context.

That is not just my opinion, it is generally excepted Biblical scholarship and basic exegesis -

Quote:
Words in most languages tend to have wide ranges of meaning depending on how they are used. While English tends to aim for precision in communication, Hebrew, as an Eastern language, depends far more on context and rhetorical shaping, as well as cultural and historical frames of reference, to carry the meaning of words. Many Hebrew words have much wider possibilities for meaning and carry a built-in ambiguity that may invoke several levels of meaning at once....[/quote']

--- Hebrew and Aramaic Terms

Tom

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Originally Posted By: Clio
I'd like to point out in the Pentateuch, when the Sabbath was first instituted, that there doesn't seem to be an emphasis on it being a day of "gathered together" worship.

But it was, actually. The record so states it, as I recall in the book of Numbers. It may also be helpful to study Jewish historians writing about the customs of the time.

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Through out the books of the Pentateuch there are numerous instructions on "how" to worship... but none is given for the Sabbath day, except in Exodus 16.

Incorrect. The weekly Sabbath is referred to as a "day of sacred assembly," I believe the wording goes. Also of interest is what God did to the Sabbath day--'sanctified' it. But that is a topic for another thread, perhaps.

David -

I think you might be incorrect. The only days I can find that are referred to as a day of sacred assembly are days associated with Feasts of Abba.

Further, according to Holdcroft in his commentary on the Pentateuch, the synagogue was not instituted nor the gathering on the weekly Sabbath until around 580 B.C, after the return from Babylon. And it then became a "custom".

If you can find any instruction in the Pentateuch where the forms of worship are laid out that includes the weekly Sabbath, other than the prohibition to rest, I would very much like to know the text.

Clio

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I think you might be incorrect. The only days I can find that are referred to as a day of sacred assembly are days associated with Feasts of Abba.

Both are mentioned, separately however. I will see if I can locate it again.

As for other factors which may bear on this question, I think it might justify a new thread on the topic. Perhaps I will start it. In fact, yeah, I will, but in the Bible and Theology section, where it would seem to belong.

Dave

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Well, campers, what have we learned so far?

The definition of several words.

scholarship=whatever David says

opinion=whatever anyone he disagrees with says

evidence=whatever David says it is

interpretation=a scholarly* (see above) process taking an infinite amount of time, weighing all the evidence,* and producing mountains of dessicated verbiage, at the end of which we discover that David was right all along.

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...To which I might add that we have also learned that available time really has more to do with "chephets" and that without "chephets" there is no more time. And it seems circumstances must have some direct effect on the comings and goings of "chephets".

One point that I am not sure we have learned though is what a student is....

Tom

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